ESO vs Sony - BLAME GAME - Round 1....FIGHT!

Kaide · August 2015

ESO Ticket # 150803-000491 or 150803-000509

Me:
I bought 5000 crowns worth of mount training to increase speed. I thought it increased the speed for all of my characters mounts. It only increases the speed for the character you bought it on. I now want to delete that Imperial character and make a Elf...but Im afraid I'll lose the 5000 crowns of mount training. Can I have those crowns refunded please?

ESO Support:
Greetings!

Thank you for contacting The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited customer support team. At this time, please refer to Sony’s Customer Support team for further assistance with completing the purchase. If they are unable to resolve your issue, reply back to this email for further assistance.

To contact Sony support: https://support.us.playstation.com/app/contact_options/

Kindest Regards,
The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited Team

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Now for Sony....

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Sony customer service:

Sony Support: Hello, My name is (He typed his name) how may I assist you today?

Me: I bought 5000 crowns worth of mount training to increase speed. I thought it increased the speed for all of my characters mounts. It only increases the speed for the character you bought it on. I now want to delete that Imperial character and make a Elf...but Im afraid I'll lose the 5000 crowns of mount training. Can I have those crowns refunded please?

Sony Support: I see, I will happy to assist you.

Sony Support: Although you have entered information about a SEN account before this chat, could you please provide the following to confirm the *exact* account you need assistance with?

- First and Last Name on account
- Sign-In ID (email address)
- Online ID

Me: i contacted ESO and they gave me the link to sony

Sony Support: May I have the information of your account please?

Me: (I gave them my account information)

Sony Support: May I have the transaction number of the purchase please?

Me: I have no idea how to obtain that

Sony Support: This number should be in your email inbox.

Me: The crowns were generated through ESO Plus membership...a subscription.....then in game you spend the 5000 crowns to increase mount speed

Sony Support: How did you get thos 5000?

Me: Ok ill find the original transaction on sonys site

Sony Support: Did you purchase those 5000 on the PS store?

Me: I purchase the ESO Plus membership on the PS Store....then over time the membership after each month gave like 1200 crowns or something like that and thats how I got up to 5000

Sony Support: I see, in this case because this is an in game request you will need to contact the developer of the game.

Me: order number (I gave them the order #)

Me: the order number I listed is the ESO subscription

Me: that was purchased through Sony

Sony Support: So do you want a refund for this content?

Sony Support: The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ESO Plus [The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited]

Sony Support: Is this right?

Me: I want the 5000 crowns back thats like $14.99 times the number of months subscribed

Me: i paid sony $14.99 a month for ESO plus...I'd like all the months back if thats the case

Sony Support: I apologize, but we cannot process a refund for this content. I understand your situation, but according to the PlayStation Terms of Service all sales are final. We are not able to make an exception in this case.

Me: Is the $14.99 charged through Sony each month?

Sony Support: In this case I can deactivate the auto renewal option and you will not be charge the next month.

Sony Support: Make sure to cancel the auto-renewal , Here are the steps to turn off Auto Renewal option from the Sony Entertainment Network website or console: https://support.us.playstation.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2630/kw/cancelling In order to stop receiving a subscription and avoid being charged, you must cancel your subscription in the Account Management area.

Me: Ok I'll contact the developer if there is nothing Sony can do

Sony Support: Okay, this is fine, is there anything else I can assist you with today?

Me: No

nimander99 · August 2015

Wow the mount training is only for one char? I was afraid of that, which is why I never bought them, but eso plus gives other bene's besides crowns. I'm sorry you wasted them but the only solution I see is a full refund which I believe would cancel your account so be very careful going forward about what you accept as far as a conclusion to this.

Balibe · August 2015

Good luck in your fight. There are a lot of post on this subject. It is the way it is ......

lagrue · August 2015

You won't get money back no matter what you do. Sony has a policy of NEVER refunding digital purchases - EVER.

I bought FF14 on PS3, I didn't know it was subscription based and the PSN description of the item didn't say at all that it was - I had NO idea there was a $15 a month fee. I got 3 free days on the game and it expired.... I contacted Sony because that's basically false advertising, there was no mention of the subscription fee in their product description. They just said sorry and that they would look into updating the product description, but refused to simply remove the game from my account and give me my money back.

They don't ever, ever refund digital purchases it's their policy.

Now as for the mount upgrades it does suck - I did the same thing, I've spend about 4000 crowns on my horse, but I did so knowing full well that it was only for my one character - I personally think they should be account wide if purchased with crowns - but they should keep the 20 hour 250 gold upgrades character based though, Just subtract it from the other characters.

Anything with crowns should be account wide except consumables, imo.

Oh and fun fact: Sony never actually updated the product description for FF14, so they can still sucker people into buying the game without knowing it has a subscription fee.

Curragraigue · August 2015

I would suggest contacting ZOS again OP. My experience with CS is they send pre-made responses to queries the first time based off of a few words you include in your query. They only read your help request on the second or third time you ask them to respond.

Seems like a legitimate request and one that ZOS could help you with so try again.

CidxLucy · August 2015

one of the reason I not making a alt dont want to lose my 60 60 60 horse.

Dagoth_Rac · August 2015

That is exactly how it works in-game, though. Mount training in the game purchased at the stables is only for the character doing the purchase. So the crown store item works exactly like the item in-game, which is how it is supposed to work. Crown store just lets you buy in-game items with cash instead of gold. They do not let you buy items that are better than in-game.

Now maybe ZOS will be nice, reset your character's riding skills to zero, and refund your crowns. But the only way crown store riding skill should be account wide is if the in-game training becomes account wide.

Kaide · August 2015

lagrue wrote: »

You won't get money back no matter what you do. Sony has a policy of NEVER refunding digital purchases - EVER.

I bought FF14 on PS3, I didn't know it was subscription based and the PSN description of the item didn't say at all that it was - I had NO idea there was a $15 a month fee. I got 3 free days on the game and it expired.... I contacted Sony because that's basically false advertising, there was no mention of the subscription fee in their product description. They just said sorry and that they would look into updating the product description, but refused to simply remove the game from my account and give me my money back.

They don't ever, ever refund digital purchases it's their policy.

Now as for the mount upgrades it does suck - I did the same thing, I've spend about 4000 crowns on my horse, but I did so knowing full well that it was only for my one character - I personally think they should be account wide if purchased with crowns - but they should keep the 20 hour 250 gold upgrades character based though, Just subtract it from the other characters.

Anything with crowns should be account wide except consumables, imo.

Oh and fun fact: Sony never actually updated the product description for FF14, so they can still sucker people into buying the game without knowing it has a subscription fee.

Honestly...Im not even after the money....I'd be satisfied if they just removed the mount training and refunded the 5000 crowns. I'm not asking for a lot here...

SLy_Kyti · August 2015

You Are asking for a lot here OP. In America we have a saying : Buyer Be aware.

You need to know what you're buying.
You need to know how it's used.
You need to do whats called "due diligence" or your homework.
You have buyer's remorse, change your mind, or don't do the above- that's on you.
It's been posted for many months that is how Mount stats work. Per Character.
Sony and ESO have not broken anything in this instance, nor have they gone against what they've said about mounts.
Not being aware doesn't get you anything in this instance. If ever.

While I have compassion for you, I'd also say chalk it up to learning about the real world.
There is "no free lunch" .
You get "no do over's".
You can't "take a Mulligan".
The only one looking out for you, is you.
There is no excuse to not read the fine print.
Sorry.

Kaide · August 2015

SLy_Kyti wrote: »

You Are asking for a lot here OP. In America we have a saying : Buyer Be aware.
You need to know what you're buying.

You need to know how it's used.

You need to do whats called "due diligence" or your homework.

You have buyer's remorse, change your mind, or don't do the above- that's on you.

It's been posted for many months that is how Mount stats work. Per Character.

Sony and ESO have not broken anything in this instance, nor have they gone against what they've said about mounts.

Not being aware doesn't get you anything in this instance. If ever.

While I have compassion for you, I'd also say chalk it up to learning about the real world.
There is "no free lunch" .
You get "no do over's".
You can't "take a Mulligan".
The only one looking out for you, is you.
There is no excuse to not read the fine print.
Sorry.

The post isn't stating ESO or Sony did anything wrong...it's more or less talking about how they toss responsibility onto each other and nothing ever gets resolved.

illuzian · August 2015

SLy_Kyti wrote: »

You Are asking for a lot here OP. In America we have a saying : Buyer Be aware.
You need to know what you're buying.

You need to know how it's used.

You need to do whats called "due diligence" or your homework.

You have buyer's remorse, change your mind, or don't do the above- that's on you.

It's been posted for many months that is how Mount stats work. Per Character.

Sony and ESO have not broken anything in this instance, nor have they gone against what they've said about mounts.

Not being aware doesn't get you anything in this instance. If ever.

While I have compassion for you, I'd also say chalk it up to learning about the real world.
There is "no free lunch" .
You get "no do over's".
You can't "take a Mulligan".
The only one looking out for you, is you.
There is no excuse to not read the fine print.
Sorry.

Here in Australia we have consumer protection, that free market for large enterprise really doesn't go down well here.

I believe the entirety of the steam refund policy started due to a legal dispute in Australia: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/valve-sued-by-australian-consumer-watchdog-over-st/1100-6421983/

Pretty much Sony or any company offering goods for sale in Australia could land in the same boat if people complained to the ACCC.

Vampire-Mk2 · August 2015

With PSN items being non refundable this problem would lie ESO Support and if they decide to refund you. Not sure if it states anywhere that the purchases you made with crowns are account or character bound?

Pizza_Magician · August 2015

Mount training should be account wide obviously, I would spend a bit to upgrade my skills if that were the case, just give some xp pots to those that bought for all for their characters,

Elsonso · August 2015

It seems to me that if they had intended for the Crown Lessons to be account wide, they would have said so.

I might suggest a tool-tip update to replace "your" with "a character's" in the Crown Lesson descriptions to make this more clear. This is what they have done respec scrolls. They might want to make it clear in the Crown XP Scroll tool-tip that it also applies to a character and not every character on the account for 2 hours. None of these make sense as an account wide feature given how the game currently works. If they did work account-wide, they would need to say so.

I am not certain that ESO support gets that this is a case where the use of the Crowns is in question, not the purchase of Crowns. You might want to make that clear, but in all honesty, I don't see them giving a refund. That opens the door, if even by a crack, to Crown refunds whenever a character is deleted.

Vampire-Mk2 · August 2015

Also, if you can have up to 8 characters per account. It would make business sense to make crown purchases per character and not account.

People that intend to buy them will do so any way but some will buy more than once across multiple characters.

thunderwell · August 2015

You could wait for race change scrolls/potions to go on the crown store...

Curragraigue · August 2015

It reminds me of ITunes. If I purchase a CD I expect that it means that I own that CD and can do what I want within the copyright limitations of the terms of use. ITunes thinks that if I purchase a CD I'm purchasing a licence to install 3 times. Hence why I always buy the actual CDs and download them to ITunes.

In this case I think the OP has grounds for saying to ZOS for things that we purchase where there is intended to be a permanent effect like mounts we should be able to keep and use them. Horse riding skill in my book should be the same, if I purchase it I should be entitled to use it on one character, if I delete that character then the riding skill should be able to be transferred. ZOS may disagree and say that it is like the consumables that you can purchase and therefore one use only. The reason I think it is different is that the use of a consumable is converted into an in game benefit, like the bought potion increased XP gain, or the health potion helped you to finish a tough boss and gain loot and XP. Horse riding does not have that same tangible conversion in my book.

Still a discussion that I think you should have with them OP. I don't like your chances but good luck.

Lightninvash · August 2015

lagrue wrote: »

You won't get money back no matter what you do. Sony has a policy of NEVER refunding digital purchases - EVER.

I bought FF14 on PS3, I didn't know it was subscription based and the PSN description of the item didn't say at all that it was - I had NO idea there was a $15 a month fee. I got 3 free days on the game and it expired.... I contacted Sony because that's basically false advertising, there was no mention of the subscription fee in their product description. They just said sorry and that they would look into updating the product description, but refused to simply remove the game from my account and give me my money back.

They don't ever, ever refund digital purchases it's their policy.

Now as for the mount upgrades it does suck - I did the same thing, I've spend about 4000 crowns on my horse, but I did so knowing full well that it was only for my one character - I personally think they should be account wide if purchased with crowns - but they should keep the 20 hour 250 gold upgrades character based though, Just subtract it from the other characters.

Anything with crowns should be account wide except consumables, imo.

Oh and fun fact: Sony never actually updated the product description for FF14, so they can still sucker people into buying the game without knowing it has a subscription fee.

aren't mount training consumables? so if that is how you feel why should they be account wide?