How I Imagine a Possibility for Enforcers as a Thief.
Azurulia
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While I am an avid thief, I am a huge supporter of the enforcer idea. While stealing is very profitable, half the reason I do it is for the thrill... which kind of died out once I understood how all the npc mechanics work. I think enforcers would be that extra bit that can really add to the justice system.
Anywhom, these are more thoughts than any real sort of suggestion, however feedback on what you think would be great.
I imagine enforcers as a role that players would have to do a small chain quest to get into. It wouldn't be anything particularly hard, more of a sort of recruitment and know your rights of what you can and cannot do sort of thing. After that you become flagged as an enforce and gain the world skill "Enforcement" a catch to this, is you can no longer steal items. You mouse over them and nothing is there, also you cannot level ledgermen or interact with fences with this flag, as they would want nothing to do with you. Similar to normal vendors and thieves. This would restrict those who choose to go this path from benefieting from the stealing aspect of the justice system, while doing some enforcement on the side. As fun as a crooked cop might be, it's more about game mechanics and possible exploitation than anything else.
So what could an enforcer do, and how can they do it? How I imagine it is once you have your enforcement flag, criminal players who steal something would have a small say... 3-5 second window after committing a crime. During this small window if an enforcer player is very close to them at the time they commited the crime, they can legally "witness" them by clicking E to interact for example (Similar to the WW bite at a shrine, though hopefully less buggy
). This would give that criminal player a bounty, similar to that of a justice NPC spotting them. To prevent exploitation, harassment and "hovering" over a player, a criminal that has been witnessed by an enforcer cannot be witnessed again by any enforcers for 1-2 minutes.
Now lets talk about leveling, perks, abilities, passives and mechanics.
Leveling and Perks:
enforcement would be done by a number of ways. The first being by witnessing criminals, and later "capturing" them and returning stolen goods to the equivalent to a criminals fence. This could also have a similar feature to "launder" if an enforcer loots a stolen item that they would like to keep, where they pay a modest fee to this special vendor keep the item. In addition, depending on level of enforcement and if they have points put into a passive, they would receive a percentage of the players current bounty, HOWEVER this percentage would only be based on how much gold was actually taken from the player at the time of their capture. For example: Player has 1000 gold bounty and is captured holding 100 gold. The enforce would get a percentage of that 100 gold taken, while the criminal has 100 gold removed form their bounty, and the rest get eaten by the system like usual.
Abilities:
Enforcer abilities would function uniquely, as they would only be accessible and usable when engaged in the pursuit of criminal player, and only work on that criminal player. This is to prevent exploitation of these abilities on NPC's etc, as they would have some pretty unique effects.
Apprehend: An ability quite similar to a DK's chain grab, however only usable on criminals when in pursuit. This could be morphed into Long Arm of the Law for longer range and smaller cost, or into Detain to add a short root or snare effect to it.
Pursuit of Justice: Grants the enforcer minor expedition and minor gallop, increasing movement speed by 10% for 20 seconds. In addition increasing endurance regeneration by 20% at all times. This could be morphed into Enduring Pursuit Increasing stamina regeneration to 40% or into Rapid Pursuit Ability now grants Major Expedition and Gallop.
Watchful Eye: Grants the enforcer invisibility and stealth detection for 10 seconds in 15 meter radius. Could be morphed into You Can Run, but You Can't Hide. Increases ability radius to 30 meters, or into Watchful Gaze increasing the duration to 20 seconds.
Stunning Jolt: A close range, powerful lighting shock that briefly stuns the criminal for 3 seconds. Could be morphed into Taze (Don't taze me bro! lol) increasing the stun to 5 seconds, or into Arching Jolt Increases range from 7 meters to 15 meters.
Tackle: Charge the criminal within 3-22 meters, dealing X amoutn of damage. Could be morphed into Slam attack also sets the criminal off balance for 6 seconds, knocks down if player is already off balance, or Take Down increased damage in proportion of remaining health, up to 100%
Call for Back Up (Ultimate Ability): Aggros a guard onto the criminal within 20 meters of them. Could be morphed into Pinpoint Criminal to increase the range to 40 meters, or Call for Partner Ability no longer calls a guard for assistance, but the nearest enforcer to the criminal for the remainder of the pursuit. (Prioritizes party members.) Ability would have a very high ultimate cost.
Passives:
Alertness: Increases the range that you can witness or catch a criminal to 10/15/20 yards.
I Fought the Law, and The Law Won: reduces damage taken by criminals while under 30% health by 20/40/60%
Sense of Duty Increases damage done to Criminals by 3/6/9%
Reputable: Increases percentage of bounty gained by 10/20/30%
Highly Respected: Increases the bounty gained for criminals who attack or kill the enforcer by 50/100/150%
Access to Records: The enforcer can now see if a player is wanted with a bounty and how much that bounty is when mousing over the player: 1 point - If Wanted/2 points - Bounty Amount (Cannot be seen if criminal is stealthed or invisble, unless within their radius of detection.)
Core Mechanics
Witnessing: The basic and entry action of the enforcement skills. Allows the enforcer to witness a criminal shortly after comming a crime to add a bounty to them. Criminal cannot be witnessed again by any enforcers for 1-2 mins.
Pursuit: If a criminal is Notorious or higher, and the enforcer is over level 20 in the enforcement skill line, they will an option to enter pursuit of the wanted criminal when mousing over them if in range. This flags the criminal and enforce into pvp with one another. At which time the criminal would have to escape a to a certain meter radius away from where originally flagged,(Could show up as an objective ring on the map) or kill the enforcer. Attacking and/or killing the enforcer would incur a massive addition to the criminals current bounty, so It will be in the criminals best interest to escape without fighting back if possible.
Killing an Enforcer as a Criminal: If a criminals kill the enforcer currently in pursuit, they are then flagged pvp to all enforcers for 3 minutes everywhere outside of outlaw refuge locations. Should a criminal end up in such a position, it's in their best interest to lay low for a while in a hide out.
Killing a Criminal as an Enforcer: If the enforcer in pursuit skills their target criminal, it drops a small bag at the bodies location that can only be seen and looted by the enforcer. Bag will contain their portion of the bounty from the criminal's capture, as well as all stolen goods currently in the criminals inventory.
"Lost and Found" vendor: Enforcers would have access to a special vendor where they can turn in stolen goods collected form a criminal for a small cash reward and experience in their enforcement skill line. In addition, if the criminal held a stolen item which the enforces wishes to keep, they could pay gold in the value of the item to claim and keep it. (Similar to a criminals laundering.) This vendor would have limited uses much like a criminals fence in how may stolen items they may turn in or lay claim to.
Also while some people may think "Enforcers will be way too OP!" that's... kind of the whole point. It's your choice to be a criminal, you don't have to be. With this choice comes consequences. And with consequences, comes risks. Enforcers would be very powerful as they are a means of upholding the law, not just a simple pvp mechanic.
...so yeah. these are simply thoughts on how I could see something like this done. Not necessarily suggestions, but if it springs any ideas for ZoS, go me? Anywhom, any thoughts on a system like this? Granted skills and abilities and their values would be up to debate as to what their final values would be, these are simply what came off the top of my head at the time of writing this.
Edited by Azurulia on August 4, 2015 10:45PM Anywhom, these are more thoughts than any real sort of suggestion, however feedback on what you think would be great.
I imagine enforcers as a role that players would have to do a small chain quest to get into. It wouldn't be anything particularly hard, more of a sort of recruitment and know your rights of what you can and cannot do sort of thing. After that you become flagged as an enforce and gain the world skill "Enforcement" a catch to this, is you can no longer steal items. You mouse over them and nothing is there, also you cannot level ledgermen or interact with fences with this flag, as they would want nothing to do with you. Similar to normal vendors and thieves. This would restrict those who choose to go this path from benefieting from the stealing aspect of the justice system, while doing some enforcement on the side. As fun as a crooked cop might be, it's more about game mechanics and possible exploitation than anything else.
So what could an enforcer do, and how can they do it? How I imagine it is once you have your enforcement flag, criminal players who steal something would have a small say... 3-5 second window after committing a crime. During this small window if an enforcer player is very close to them at the time they commited the crime, they can legally "witness" them by clicking E to interact for example (Similar to the WW bite at a shrine, though hopefully less buggy
). This would give that criminal player a bounty, similar to that of a justice NPC spotting them. To prevent exploitation, harassment and "hovering" over a player, a criminal that has been witnessed by an enforcer cannot be witnessed again by any enforcers for 1-2 minutes.Now lets talk about leveling, perks, abilities, passives and mechanics.
Leveling and Perks:
enforcement would be done by a number of ways. The first being by witnessing criminals, and later "capturing" them and returning stolen goods to the equivalent to a criminals fence. This could also have a similar feature to "launder" if an enforcer loots a stolen item that they would like to keep, where they pay a modest fee to this special vendor keep the item. In addition, depending on level of enforcement and if they have points put into a passive, they would receive a percentage of the players current bounty, HOWEVER this percentage would only be based on how much gold was actually taken from the player at the time of their capture. For example: Player has 1000 gold bounty and is captured holding 100 gold. The enforce would get a percentage of that 100 gold taken, while the criminal has 100 gold removed form their bounty, and the rest get eaten by the system like usual.
Abilities:
Enforcer abilities would function uniquely, as they would only be accessible and usable when engaged in the pursuit of criminal player, and only work on that criminal player. This is to prevent exploitation of these abilities on NPC's etc, as they would have some pretty unique effects.
Apprehend: An ability quite similar to a DK's chain grab, however only usable on criminals when in pursuit. This could be morphed into Long Arm of the Law for longer range and smaller cost, or into Detain to add a short root or snare effect to it.
Pursuit of Justice: Grants the enforcer minor expedition and minor gallop, increasing movement speed by 10% for 20 seconds. In addition increasing endurance regeneration by 20% at all times. This could be morphed into Enduring Pursuit Increasing stamina regeneration to 40% or into Rapid Pursuit Ability now grants Major Expedition and Gallop.
Watchful Eye: Grants the enforcer invisibility and stealth detection for 10 seconds in 15 meter radius. Could be morphed into You Can Run, but You Can't Hide. Increases ability radius to 30 meters, or into Watchful Gaze increasing the duration to 20 seconds.
Stunning Jolt: A close range, powerful lighting shock that briefly stuns the criminal for 3 seconds. Could be morphed into Taze (Don't taze me bro! lol) increasing the stun to 5 seconds, or into Arching Jolt Increases range from 7 meters to 15 meters.
Tackle: Charge the criminal within 3-22 meters, dealing X amoutn of damage. Could be morphed into Slam attack also sets the criminal off balance for 6 seconds, knocks down if player is already off balance, or Take Down increased damage in proportion of remaining health, up to 100%
Call for Back Up (Ultimate Ability): Aggros a guard onto the criminal within 20 meters of them. Could be morphed into Pinpoint Criminal to increase the range to 40 meters, or Call for Partner Ability no longer calls a guard for assistance, but the nearest enforcer to the criminal for the remainder of the pursuit. (Prioritizes party members.) Ability would have a very high ultimate cost.
Passives:
Alertness: Increases the range that you can witness or catch a criminal to 10/15/20 yards.
I Fought the Law, and The Law Won: reduces damage taken by criminals while under 30% health by 20/40/60%
Sense of Duty Increases damage done to Criminals by 3/6/9%
Reputable: Increases percentage of bounty gained by 10/20/30%
Highly Respected: Increases the bounty gained for criminals who attack or kill the enforcer by 50/100/150%
Access to Records: The enforcer can now see if a player is wanted with a bounty and how much that bounty is when mousing over the player: 1 point - If Wanted/2 points - Bounty Amount (Cannot be seen if criminal is stealthed or invisble, unless within their radius of detection.)
Core Mechanics
Witnessing: The basic and entry action of the enforcement skills. Allows the enforcer to witness a criminal shortly after comming a crime to add a bounty to them. Criminal cannot be witnessed again by any enforcers for 1-2 mins.
Pursuit: If a criminal is Notorious or higher, and the enforcer is over level 20 in the enforcement skill line, they will an option to enter pursuit of the wanted criminal when mousing over them if in range. This flags the criminal and enforce into pvp with one another. At which time the criminal would have to escape a to a certain meter radius away from where originally flagged,(Could show up as an objective ring on the map) or kill the enforcer. Attacking and/or killing the enforcer would incur a massive addition to the criminals current bounty, so It will be in the criminals best interest to escape without fighting back if possible.
Killing an Enforcer as a Criminal: If a criminals kill the enforcer currently in pursuit, they are then flagged pvp to all enforcers for 3 minutes everywhere outside of outlaw refuge locations. Should a criminal end up in such a position, it's in their best interest to lay low for a while in a hide out.
Killing a Criminal as an Enforcer: If the enforcer in pursuit skills their target criminal, it drops a small bag at the bodies location that can only be seen and looted by the enforcer. Bag will contain their portion of the bounty from the criminal's capture, as well as all stolen goods currently in the criminals inventory.
"Lost and Found" vendor: Enforcers would have access to a special vendor where they can turn in stolen goods collected form a criminal for a small cash reward and experience in their enforcement skill line. In addition, if the criminal held a stolen item which the enforces wishes to keep, they could pay gold in the value of the item to claim and keep it. (Similar to a criminals laundering.) This vendor would have limited uses much like a criminals fence in how may stolen items they may turn in or lay claim to.
Also while some people may think "Enforcers will be way too OP!" that's... kind of the whole point. It's your choice to be a criminal, you don't have to be. With this choice comes consequences. And with consequences, comes risks. Enforcers would be very powerful as they are a means of upholding the law, not just a simple pvp mechanic.
...so yeah. these are simply thoughts on how I could see something like this done. Not necessarily suggestions, but if it springs any ideas for ZoS, go me? Anywhom, any thoughts on a system like this? Granted skills and abilities and their values would be up to debate as to what their final values would be, these are simply what came off the top of my head at the time of writing this.
Criminal Scum:
50 Breton Templar Healer: Olivine Azshara | 42 Orc Dragonknight Tank: Olivine Claremont | 50 Kahjiit Safe Cracker: Cracks-The-Safes | 50 Kahjiit Serial Killer: Cereal-The-Killer <Current Bounty: 1,231,318 gold>
"Whoever said crime doesn't pay clearly hasn't met Azu." -@Sloris
50 Breton Templar Healer: Olivine Azshara | 42 Orc Dragonknight Tank: Olivine Claremont | 50 Kahjiit Safe Cracker: Cracks-The-Safes | 50 Kahjiit Serial Killer: Cereal-The-Killer <Current Bounty: 1,231,318 gold>
"Whoever said crime doesn't pay clearly hasn't met Azu." -@Sloris
6
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21jws10✭✭✭Very nice ideas, I feel being an enforcer could turn out to be be very fun and productive.PS4 | EU | falout565 | Looking for PvP group, messsage me, BWB1 -
Azurulia✭✭✭Edited by Azurulia on August 4, 2015 11:11PMCriminal Scum:
50 Breton Templar Healer: Olivine Azshara | 42 Orc Dragonknight Tank: Olivine Claremont | 50 Kahjiit Safe Cracker: Cracks-The-Safes | 50 Kahjiit Serial Killer: Cereal-The-Killer <Current Bounty: 1,231,318 gold>
"Whoever said crime doesn't pay clearly hasn't met Azu." -@Sloris0 -
gilbegger✭✭✭While im in the bank switching out items...I have to fight the urge to yell ..
" That guy is right behind you stealing your stuff!!"
I at least want an ability to call the guard over...and as a concerned citizen it is my right to stay and watch the "beat down".2 -
Hmmm... if they do that, they'd need to expand the Legerdemain skill line to match.
A good introductory passive could be "I Fought the Law" that allows you to fight Guards that aren't invulnerable, "The Law Won" that lets you respawn for free after getting killed by an Enforcer/Guard, and "The Law LOST" that clears your Bounty when you defeat an Enforcer/Guard.
Maybe a skill like "I Shot the Sheriff" which allows you to Knockdown/Stun a pursuing Enforcer/Guard for several seconds using a ranged attack? Morphs could be "Eye Shot the Sheriff" that temporarily blinds the target and "I Did NOT Shoot the Deputy" that negates any bounty for fighting back against targets of this ability.
Or a skill called "Escape Goat" that lets you turn yourself into a goat, shaking off NPC pursuers and becoming un-targetable to players that have opted out of hunting livestock (but merely "yellow" to those willing to shoot poor innocent goats and other NPCs), while those that do shoot you gain Bounty for attacking livestock? Of course, goats don't have attacks either, so it wouldn't work terribly well in PvP (except as a joke). Maybe morphs could include "Scapegoat" (that makes you invisible for several seconds and transfers your aggro to a summoned goat) and "Billy Goat Gruff" that allows you to use other active skills in goat form. I would laugh so hard at either of those morphs...
There are puns to be made with "On the Lamb" as well. Maybe a special mount for the Crown Store, to be released alongside an expanded Legerdemain/Enforcer setup?0 -
Azurulia✭✭✭panemetcircenses wrote: »Hmmm... if they do that, they'd need to expand the Legerdemain skill line to match.
A good introductory passive could be "I Fought the Law" that allows you to fight Guards that aren't invulnerable, "The Law Won" that lets you respawn for free after getting killed by an Enforcer/Guard, and "The Law LOST" that clears your Bounty when you defeat an Enforcer/Guard.
Maybe a skill like "I Shot the Sheriff" which allows you to Knockdown/Stun a pursuing Enforcer/Guard for several seconds using a ranged attack? Morphs could be "Eye Shot the Sheriff" that temporarily blinds the target and "I Did NOT Shoot the Deputy" that negates any bounty for fighting back against targets of this ability.
Or a skill called "Escape Goat" that lets you turn yourself into a goat, shaking off NPC pursuers and becoming un-targetable to players that have opted out of hunting livestock (but merely "yellow" to those willing to shoot poor innocent goats and other NPCs), while those that do shoot you gain Bounty for attacking livestock? Of course, goats don't have attacks either, so it wouldn't work terribly well in PvP (except as a joke). Maybe morphs could include "Scapegoat" (that makes you invisible for several seconds and transfers your aggro to a summoned goat) and "Billy Goat Gruff" that allows you to use other active skills in goat form. I would laugh so hard at either of those morphs...
There are puns to be made with "On the Lamb" as well. Maybe a special mount for the Crown Store, to be released alongside an expanded Legerdemain/Enforcer setup?
lol the goat thing made me laugh. However I'd have it spawn an actual goat that draws aggros of the guards off you.
However yes, I imagine the lederdemain line could use a few this and thats to combat the "law" from both guards to enforcers. I still don't think guards should be killable, as that still defeats their purpose. Enforcers hwoever, are players, whcih could make themselves more difficult, but still not "gods"
Some CC break abilities and the like could help for getting away, as that would probably be the main focus of what to do if you have an enforcer after you, because like how you cannot kill guards, killing enforcers would be possible yes, but certainly not in your, or your wallets best interest.
I don't think enforcers should be an excuse for players to steal and get in trouble with the law with the intention of fighting the enforcers for the sake of pvp outside of cyrodiil (Which I know for a fact players would do if it was on a more even playing field.) hence why enforcers would be very powerful as not to be a means of pvp, but as law enforcement to actual criminals doing crimes and having bounties, not to those just looking for a fight.
Let's not forget or lose sight as to why the enforcers are being implemented in the first place.Edited by Azurulia on August 5, 2015 2:36AMCriminal Scum:
50 Breton Templar Healer: Olivine Azshara | 42 Orc Dragonknight Tank: Olivine Claremont | 50 Kahjiit Safe Cracker: Cracks-The-Safes | 50 Kahjiit Serial Killer: Cereal-The-Killer <Current Bounty: 1,231,318 gold>
"Whoever said crime doesn't pay clearly hasn't met Azu." -@Sloris0 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nice design @Azurulia. Clever how you've separated the Enforcer system from the Guard/bounty/heat system... well, for the most part anyway. I like how the player would have to witness a crime to be able to pursue the player. This solves one of the biggest issues with the enforcement concept which was players camping outside of thieves dens just waiting to bust players with bounties who are trying to get in.
ZOS would have to work to balance the skills of the criminal so that the two sides are evenly balanced but man this really sounds like a lot of fun! I don't normally tag Devs but @ZOS_MandiParker should see this thread.Edited by Gidorick on August 5, 2015 2:39AMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!1 -
Azurulia✭✭✭Nice design @Azurulia. Clever how you've separated the Enforcer system from the Guard/bounty/heat system... well, for the most part anyway. I like how the player would have to witness a crime to be able to pursue the player. This solves one of the biggest issues with the enforcement concept which was players camping outside of thieves dens just waiting to bust players with bounties who are trying to get in.
ZOS would have to work to balance the skills of the criminal so that the two sides are evenly balanced but man this really sounds like a lot of fun! I don't normally tag Devs but @ZOS_MandiParker should see this thread.
yeah, as mentioned above, the Legerdemain skill line could use soem tweaking along side the enforcement to have some abilities focus don both escape and surviving, not so much killing the enforcer. Again, the idea isn't much "oh an enforcer, time to fight!" so much as "OH ***! It's the cops! Run away!"Abilities in the Legerdemain line should reflect on this aspect as well. Enforcement: Catching and killing - Legerdemain: Escaping and survival.
Just my thoughts on the system that is. because when it all boils down to it, it's players enforcing the law with the intention of stopping criminals, not just a second means of pvp if you ask me.
Criminals should run form the cops, not intend to fight them unless they need to. (Like in a place very dangerous to run away, or having too much on you to risk dying to guards while fleeing, so you'd ratehr take your chances with the enforcer, etc)
Edited by Azurulia on August 5, 2015 2:48AMCriminal Scum:
50 Breton Templar Healer: Olivine Azshara | 42 Orc Dragonknight Tank: Olivine Claremont | 50 Kahjiit Safe Cracker: Cracks-The-Safes | 50 Kahjiit Serial Killer: Cereal-The-Killer <Current Bounty: 1,231,318 gold>
"Whoever said crime doesn't pay clearly hasn't met Azu." -@Sloris0 -
panemetcircenses wrote: »Hmmm... if they do that, they'd need to expand the Legerdemain skill line to match.
A good introductory passive could be "I Fought the Law" that allows you to fight Guards that aren't invulnerable, "The Law Won" that lets you respawn for free after getting killed by an Enforcer/Guard, and "The Law LOST" that clears your Bounty when you defeat an Enforcer/Guard.
Maybe a skill like "I Shot the Sheriff" which allows you to Knockdown/Stun a pursuing Enforcer/Guard for several seconds using a ranged attack? Morphs could be "Eye Shot the Sheriff" that temporarily blinds the target and "I Did NOT Shoot the Deputy" that negates any bounty for fighting back against targets of this ability.
Or a skill called "Escape Goat" that lets you turn yourself into a goat, shaking off NPC pursuers and becoming un-targetable to players that have opted out of hunting livestock (but merely "yellow" to those willing to shoot poor innocent goats and other NPCs), while those that do shoot you gain Bounty for attacking livestock? Of course, goats don't have attacks either, so it wouldn't work terribly well in PvP (except as a joke). Maybe morphs could include "Scapegoat" (that makes you invisible for several seconds and transfers your aggro to a summoned goat) and "Billy Goat Gruff" that allows you to use other active skills in goat form. I would laugh so hard at either of those morphs...
There are puns to be made with "On the Lamb" as well. Maybe a special mount for the Crown Store, to be released alongside an expanded Legerdemain/Enforcer setup?
lol the goat thing made me laugh. However I'd have it spawn an actual goat that draws aggros of the guards off you.
However yes, I imagine the lederdemain line could use a few this and thats to combat the "law" from both guards to enforcers. I still don't think guards should be killable, as that still defeats their purpose. Enforcers hwoever, are players, whcih could make themselves more difficult, but still not "gods"
Some CC break abilities and the like could help for getting away, as that would probably be the main focus of what to do if you have an enforcer after you, because like how you cannot kill guards, killing enforcers would be possible yes, but certainly not in your, or your wallets best interest.
I don't think enforcers should be an excuse for players to steal and get in trouble with the law with the intention of fighting the enforcers for the sake of pvp outside of cyrodiil (Which I know for a fact players would do if it was on a more even playing field.) hence why enforcers would be very powerful as not to be a means of pvp, but as law enforcement to actual criminals doing crimes and having bounties, not to those just looking for a fight.
Let's not forget or lose sight as to why the enforcers are being implemented in the first place.
Hey now, one of the morphs I suggested ("Scapegoat") turns you invisible and summons an actual goat. That way you never really know if the goat you're chasing is an "Escape Goat" or a "Scapegoat"... or is about to "Billy Goat Gruff" you off a bridge. Admit it, it'd be entertaining.
Edited by panemetcircenses on August 5, 2015 5:15AM0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Azurephoenix999 wrote: »
This video makes me laugh every time I hear/see it.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>0 -
Azurulia✭✭✭panemetcircenses wrote: »<snip>
Hey now, one of the morphs I suggested ("Scapegoat") turns you invisible and summons an actual goat. That way you never really know if the goat you're chasing is an "Escape Goat" or a "Scapegoat"... or is about to "Billy Goat Gruff" you off a bridge. Admit it, it'd be entertaining.
Hehe, I do admit it would be entertaining no doubt. I'm just simply trying to be realistic, which can often be the first one to call the fun police on silly or fun ideas.Edited by Azurulia on August 5, 2015 5:35AMCriminal Scum:
50 Breton Templar Healer: Olivine Azshara | 42 Orc Dragonknight Tank: Olivine Claremont | 50 Kahjiit Safe Cracker: Cracks-The-Safes | 50 Kahjiit Serial Killer: Cereal-The-Killer <Current Bounty: 1,231,318 gold>
"Whoever said crime doesn't pay clearly hasn't met Azu." -@Sloris0 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭All this comes down to is 'will players grief other player' if the answer is yes. Do not add it. If you plan to add a toggle to avoid enforcer system. Do not add it.0 -
panemetcircenses wrote: »<snip>
Hey now, one of the morphs I suggested ("Scapegoat") turns you invisible and summons an actual goat. That way you never really know if the goat you're chasing is an "Escape Goat" or a "Scapegoat"... or is about to "Billy Goat Gruff" you off a bridge. Admit it, it'd be entertaining.
Hehe, I do admit it would be entertaining no doubt. I'm just simply trying to be realistic, which can often be the first one to call the fun police on silly or fun ideas.
True. I suppose a somewhat more serious looking over would be good.
From a gameplay standpoint, thievery needs a much more robust escape system than is currently present, and you're Enforcer Skill Line does actually need to be toned down significantly. There needs to be a way of escaping as much as a way of capturing criminals to make for a good game of cops and robbers. I admit that the "Escape Goat" concept is silly, though we do have Alteration, Illusion, and Summoning magic available in-game as a reason for this particular spell... and having an overzealous pursuer get a bounty of their own for harming livestock would be wonderful. If I were a thief with access to magicka, that's what I'd do, turnabout being fair play and all.
Well, that or send the Dark Brotherhood after you and/or your horse (mount), home (player housing - when added), and family (house servants - when added). Actually, a Dark Brotherhood designed as a direct counter to Enforcers would be an interesting mechanic.
<snip> Also while some people may think "Enforcers will be way too OP!" that's... kind of the whole point. It's your choice to be a criminal, you don't have to be. With this choice comes consequences. And with consequences, comes risks. Enforcers would be very powerful as they are a means of upholding the law, not just a simple pvp mechanic.<snip>
The weighted mechanics you suggest work from a conceptual standpoint, but are lopsided from a gameplay one. It looks like good fun playing an Enforcer, but for Criminals... they lose even if they beat the Enforcer. That's not fun, and it would lead to lower participation. We can't have Enforcers, with actual human intelligence, also wield abilities and mechanics that put Criminals at an inherent disadvantage... we'd end up with nobody to chase because there's no way to escape.
Think about it this way: based on the Skill Line you propose, would you enjoy sneaking up to a door, getting jumped by an Enforcer that can see you anyway, that does bonus damage to you, that shrugs off up to 60% of your own damage right when you think you have a chance, that summons invulnerable Guards, and that adds significant bounties on top of what you already had just for managing to beat them despite numerous handicaps? Did I mention that said Enforcer could be a Vet and hang out in a starting zone? Remember, Cyrodiil has level matching, the rest of the game does not.
Also remember, if other players can mouse-over and jump you if you've got a bounty... you can't even go questing until things die down, and you'd be at a major disadvantage in Cyrodiil (and soon the Imperial City) any time you even had a hint of a bounty. You could play an alt... but if you get jumped fighting a dungeon boss, would you be in a mood to keep playing? That mechanic encourages folks to log out and go do something else.
Another hurdle to consider is that these would have to retain some utility in general gameplay... folks are unlikely to want to re-slot skills every single time they want to go on a crime spree or hunt bad guys. It'd be a pain as far as micromanaging skillsets, and could cut back on participation on both ends of things. It's manageable with add-ons if you're running on PC, but we need something that would be fun for console players as well. At the same time, we'll need to keep the Enforcer and expanded Legerdemain Skill Lines from being more powerful than existing abilities.
It's neat in concept, but in the end it actually is another PvP mechanic... which means it really does need some semblance of balance.Edited by panemetcircenses on August 5, 2015 8:02AM0 -
Azurulia✭✭✭notimetocare wrote: »All this comes down to is 'will players grief other player' if the answer is yes. Do not add it. If you plan to add a toggle to avoid enforcer system. Do not add it.
It's matter of how to implement it without possible exploitation and grieffing. Hence why I figured a raidus that they can only effected in until they die or get out of it, then they have a bit of time to get out of there before they can be hassled again. the restrictions as to when they can be attacked also prevents the essential of camping the outlaw refuges, and worse case scenario you could also put an immunity timer to pursuit when leaving one. would keep you safe from enforcers, but nto guards obviously. Unless you take criminal action of course. This would allow criminals to at least move around. or at the very least, wayshrine out if they re worried about being followed. Might not be a bad idea to let criminals wayshrine out of refuges as well.
There are many possibilities to prevent greiffing and exploitation. Seeing as it would hit the PTR we would just need testers to try and grief and exploit the crap out of it in the meantime to find loop holes. I'd be the first to step up for that. Having done some QA work for an MMO before, I'm familiar with how to break things and weed out bugs and exploits. When the time coems for the enforcer stuff to hit the PTR,(Sooner if there is a sign to sign up for QA stuff.) I'll personally be there to try my best to make sure stuff like that wouldn't slip by.
You know like they say, take matters into your own hands, stand up and make a difference, and all that good stuff.panemetcircenses wrote: »panemetcircenses wrote: »<snip>
Hey now, one of the morphs I suggested ("Scapegoat") turns you invisible and summons an actual goat. That way you never really know if the goat you're chasing is an "Escape Goat" or a "Scapegoat"... or is about to "Billy Goat Gruff" you off a bridge. Admit it, it'd be entertaining.
Hehe, I do admit it would be entertaining no doubt. I'm just simply trying to be realistic, which can often be the first one to call the fun police on silly or fun ideas.
True. I suppose a somewhat more serious looking over would be good.
From a gameplay standpoint, thievery needs a much more robust escape system than is currently present, and you're Enforcer Skill Line does actually need to be toned down significantly. There needs to be a way of escaping as much as a way of capturing criminals to make for a good game of cops and robbers. I admit that the "Escape Goat" concept is silly, though we do have Alteration, Illusion, and Summoning magic available in-game as a reason for this particular spell... and having an overzealous pursuer get a bounty of their own for harming livestock would be wonderful. If I were a thief with access to magicka, that's what I'd do, turnabout being fair play and all.
Well, that or send the Dark Brotherhood after you and/or your horse (mount), home (player housing - when added), and family (house servants - when added). Actually, a Dark Brotherhood designed as a direct counter to Enforcers would be an interesting mechanic.<snip> Also while some people may think "Enforcers will be way too OP!" that's... kind of the whole point. It's your choice to be a criminal, you don't have to be. With this choice comes consequences. And with consequences, comes risks. Enforcers would be very powerful as they are a means of upholding the law, not just a simple pvp mechanic.<snip>
The weighted mechanics you suggest work from a conceptual standpoint, but are lopsided from a gameplay one. It looks like good fun playing an Enforcer, but for Criminals... they lose even if they beat the Enforcer. That's not fun, and it would lead to lower participation. We can't have Enforcers, with actual human intelligence, also wield abilities and mechanics that put Criminals at an inherent disadvantage... we'd end up with nobody to chase because there's no way to escape.
Think about it this way: based on the Skill Line you propose, would you enjoy sneaking up to a door, getting jumped by an Enforcer that can see you anyway, that does bonus damage to you, that shrugs off up to 60% of your own damage right when you think you have a chance, that summons invulnerable Guards, and that adds significant bounties on top of what you already had just for managing to beat them despite numerous handicaps? Did I mention that said Enforcer could be a Vet and hang out in a starting zone? Remember, Cyrodiil has level matching, the rest of the game does not.
Also remember, if other players can mouse-over and jump you if you've got a bounty... you can't even go questing until things die down, and you'd be at a major disadvantage in Cyrodiil (and soon the Imperial City) any time you even had a hint of a bounty. You could play an alt... but if you get jumped fighting a dungeon boss, would you be in a mood to keep playing? That mechanic encourages folks to log out and go do something else.
Another hurdle to consider is that these would have to retain some utility in general gameplay... folks are unlikely to want to re-slot skills every single time they want to go on a crime spree or hunt bad guys. It'd be a pain as far as micromanaging skillsets, and could cut back on participation on both ends of things. It's manageable with add-ons if you're running on PC, but we need something that would be fun for console players as well. At the same time, we'll need to keep the Enforcer and expanded Legerdemain Skill Lines from being more powerful than existing abilities.
It's neat in concept, but in the end it actually is another PvP mechanic... which means it really does need some semblance of balance.
I imagine the legerdemain skill line would have a beefing up like mentioned above if enforces got some abilities, it would make perfect sense for the legerdemain line to get something, or maybe even the thieves guild or dark brotherhood? Who knows. I'm just certain the devs wouldn't leave criminals out to try with nothing. However enforcers would still need to stay powerful to fulfill their role and function of law enforcement.
In regards to enforcers power vs criminals. Another part of enforcement would be to discourage criminal actions. obvious not enough so now one would do it, but enough to at least think about ti and be careful when they are. You see, the problem is if the enforcer can be skill without much more difficulty then a normal player and with no pentalty, then whats the point of them really? Not to mention you would have "criminals" runnign aroudn who aren't even looking to do criminal activity, but just to draw the enforcers out to pvp. Which again defeats the purpose of why the enforcers are there in the first place.
Like I said above. Enforcers shouldn't be seen as another means of potential pvp, but as law enforcement. And if people are breaking the law just to fight and kill them, that's counter productive. Enforcers you should try to escape form 90% of the time, unless you are in a situation where you have to, or prefer to stand your ground when you way loss vs gain. At which you could fight and kill the enforcer, yes. but then whats a bounty when you have thousands in stolen loot on you? Not to mention bounties do decay over time. So it's not like it's permanent damage to kill an enforcer, it just shouldn't be option 1 every time, or the reason why you have a bounty in the first place.
Make sense? Enforcer is law enforcement, not even grounds pvp outside of cyrodiil, as much as some would want it to be. Think of them as a player guard more then an actual player. They would at the very least be able to take a lot of damage before dying if the need to tone down their damage and abilities would arise. Not to mention there is absolutely nothing stopping an enforcer running to a guard. The criminal however, cannot. At least not safely and without aggroing them. Baiting a criminal into a fight and a guard could be a perfectly fine tactic if the criminal really feels like fighting you and will chase you.
It's their loss if they aggro a guard on top of having to fight you. The same as it's the enforcer loss if the criminal gets away. (Skills and passives a criminal could have would greatly he;p this, nto to mention the incoming damage in pvp reduction that would still apply.)
It's a tricky balancing act, which is what testing is for after all. Some people may have little to no faith in ZoS, but I'd like to think they are at the very least not incompetent to the obvious needs of both fights needing tools to capture and escape.
In the end, we simply wait to see what they have in store for us.
Edited by Azurulia on August 5, 2015 8:56AMCriminal Scum:
50 Breton Templar Healer: Olivine Azshara | 42 Orc Dragonknight Tank: Olivine Claremont | 50 Kahjiit Safe Cracker: Cracks-The-Safes | 50 Kahjiit Serial Killer: Cereal-The-Killer <Current Bounty: 1,231,318 gold>
"Whoever said crime doesn't pay clearly hasn't met Azu." -@Sloris0 -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is almost what Ive been thinking too. Enforcers hide and move around, if they spot Thief, they tackle them and take them to Prison. Thiefs can spot tracks and see if Encorcers are near and make their move or no. It would make fun new activity, tracking, spotting, and tackling.Edited by Sausage on August 5, 2015 10:16AM0 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭panemetcircenses wrote: »panemetcircenses wrote: »<snip>
Hey now, one of the morphs I suggested ("Scapegoat") turns you invisible and summons an actual goat. That way you never really know if the goat you're chasing is an "Escape Goat" or a "Scapegoat"... or is about to "Billy Goat Gruff" you off a bridge. Admit it, it'd be entertaining.
Hehe, I do admit it would be entertaining no doubt. I'm just simply trying to be realistic, which can often be the first one to call the fun police on silly or fun ideas.
True. I suppose a somewhat more serious looking over would be good.
From a gameplay standpoint, thievery needs a much more robust escape system than is currently present, and you're Enforcer Skill Line does actually need to be toned down significantly. There needs to be a way of escaping as much as a way of capturing criminals to make for a good game of cops and robbers. I admit that the "Escape Goat" concept is silly, though we do have Alteration, Illusion, and Summoning magic available in-game as a reason for this particular spell... and having an overzealous pursuer get a bounty of their own for harming livestock would be wonderful. If I were a thief with access to magicka, that's what I'd do, turnabout being fair play and all.
Well, that or send the Dark Brotherhood after you and/or your horse (mount), home (player housing - when added), and family (house servants - when added). Actually, a Dark Brotherhood designed as a direct counter to Enforcers would be an interesting mechanic.<snip> Also while some people may think "Enforcers will be way too OP!" that's... kind of the whole point. It's your choice to be a criminal, you don't have to be. With this choice comes consequences. And with consequences, comes risks. Enforcers would be very powerful as they are a means of upholding the law, not just a simple pvp mechanic.<snip>
The weighted mechanics you suggest work from a conceptual standpoint, but are lopsided from a gameplay one. It looks like good fun playing an Enforcer, but for Criminals... they lose even if they beat the Enforcer. That's not fun, and it would lead to lower participation. We can't have Enforcers, with actual human intelligence, also wield abilities and mechanics that put Criminals at an inherent disadvantage... we'd end up with nobody to chase because there's no way to escape.
Think about it this way: based on the Skill Line you propose, would you enjoy sneaking up to a door, getting jumped by an Enforcer that can see you anyway, that does bonus damage to you, that shrugs off up to 60% of your own damage right when you think you have a chance, that summons invulnerable Guards, and that adds significant bounties on top of what you already had just for managing to beat them despite numerous handicaps? Did I mention that said Enforcer could be a Vet and hang out in a starting zone? Remember, Cyrodiil has level matching, the rest of the game does not.
Also remember, if other players can mouse-over and jump you if you've got a bounty... you can't even go questing until things die down, and you'd be at a major disadvantage in Cyrodiil (and soon the Imperial City) any time you even had a hint of a bounty. You could play an alt... but if you get jumped fighting a dungeon boss, would you be in a mood to keep playing? That mechanic encourages folks to log out and go do something else.
Another hurdle to consider is that these would have to retain some utility in general gameplay... folks are unlikely to want to re-slot skills every single time they want to go on a crime spree or hunt bad guys. It'd be a pain as far as micromanaging skillsets, and could cut back on participation on both ends of things. It's manageable with add-ons if you're running on PC, but we need something that would be fun for console players as well. At the same time, we'll need to keep the Enforcer and expanded Legerdemain Skill Lines from being more powerful than existing abilities.
It's neat in concept, but in the end it actually is another PvP mechanic... which means it really does need some semblance of balance.
What they can do, is like make it like a thirty minate immunity if you don't commit another thing to increase bounty, that way you only get ganked or attacked by enforcers every 30 minates. That way players that like had to get a bounty up to like 6mil :P would not be attacked all the time.PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
Thevampirenight wrote: »<snip>Like I said above. Enforcers shouldn't be seen as another means of potential pvp, but as law enforcement. <snip>
The key point you're missing is that the suggested player Enforcers versus player Criminals actually does boil down to a PvP system, one that is by design imbalanced, and one that takes place outside of PvP zones. Sure it would be fun to troll other players for stealing things... but it needs to be fair. If you want better law enforcement, remove the player component and make the Guards more attentive in appropriate locations (like the Bank), and add dialog options to NPC Guards so you can give them a heads up to be on the lookout. The moment you involve PvP, which this is as you've got it set up, you need to consider the effects of the PvP competition within the system, along with the effects of these capabilities in Cyrodiil and the upcoming Imperial City. In addition, you need to consider that it enforces (pun intended) participation in a PvP mechanic in PvE zones.
I know you'd like to consider this solely a law enforcement mechanic, but as a full Skill Line designed specifically for use by players against other players... it really isn't.0 -
Azurulia✭✭✭panemetcircenses wrote: »Thevampirenight wrote: »<snip>Like I said above. Enforcers shouldn't be seen as another means of potential pvp, but as law enforcement. <snip>
The key point you're missing is that the suggested player Enforcers versus player Criminals actually does boil down to a PvP system, one that is by design imbalanced, and one that takes place outside of PvP zones. Sure it would be fun to troll other players for stealing things... but it needs to be fair. If you want better law enforcement, remove the player component and make the Guards more attentive in appropriate locations (like the Bank), and add dialog options to NPC Guards so you can give them a heads up to be on the lookout. The moment you involve PvP, which this is as you've got it set up, you need to consider the effects of the PvP competition within the system, along with the effects of these capabilities in Cyrodiil and the upcoming Imperial City. In addition, you need to consider that it enforces (pun intended) participation in a PvP mechanic in PvE zones.
I know you'd like to consider this solely a law enforcement mechanic, but as a full Skill Line designed specifically for use by players against other players... it really isn't.
There are a number of flaws to the justice system, particularly centered around guards. While yes enforcers would would technically be in a pvp engagement with a criminal, whats the point if the criminal can just as easily kill them without seeing them as a real threat they would need to run from, but instead can just fight? Sure, if they die to them they do lose their items and gold and such, but if you can just as easily kill them then lay low for a bit like never ever happened, whats the point of them even being there as enforcers? You may as well just call it world pvp with special flagging conditions.
Crimes? Bounties? Who care about that stuff, because obviously those wouldn't come first. The pvp would. Like I mentioned above. I could see pvp players stealing stuff with the sole intention of fighting the enforcers if enforcers weren't any stronger them some Joe you would find in Cyrodiil, hell, they would probably do it just for fun and kicks. If enforcers aren't powerful, then the penalty for attacking and kill them has to be drastic; very, very drastic. Why? Because like I said, whats stopping the criminal from just killing them rather than considering fleeing? A bounty? How big? For how long? Would it even really matter?
Enforcers would have these mechanics to combat criminals and the rampant crime spree that is pumping gold into the economy through theft, as that is the entire point of the enforcer in the first place. Because they don't get the full value of the bounty, or of the stolen items, they are fleshing currency out of the system through hunting criminals. There is a lot more going on under the hood of the enforcement system then just some pvp mechanics if you stop and think about it.
You sway to far away form the truth of the enforcers existence, then it quickly loses it's true purpose. Beyond that it may as well just be tossed aside in favor of some open world pvp mechanic instead.
I'm just saying. Enforcers shouldn't serve as just another method of pvp, but as something actual criminals must be very wary of.
Edited by Azurulia on August 6, 2015 4:05AMCriminal Scum:
50 Breton Templar Healer: Olivine Azshara | 42 Orc Dragonknight Tank: Olivine Claremont | 50 Kahjiit Safe Cracker: Cracks-The-Safes | 50 Kahjiit Serial Killer: Cereal-The-Killer <Current Bounty: 1,231,318 gold>
"Whoever said crime doesn't pay clearly hasn't met Azu." -@Sloris0 -
panemetcircenses wrote: »Thevampirenight wrote: »<snip>Like I said above. Enforcers shouldn't be seen as another means of potential pvp, but as law enforcement. <snip>
The key point you're missing is that the suggested player Enforcers versus player Criminals actually does boil down to a PvP system, one that is by design imbalanced, and one that takes place outside of PvP zones. Sure it would be fun to troll other players for stealing things... but it needs to be fair. If you want better law enforcement, remove the player component and make the Guards more attentive in appropriate locations (like the Bank), and add dialog options to NPC Guards so you can give them a heads up to be on the lookout. The moment you involve PvP, which this is as you've got it set up, you need to consider the effects of the PvP competition within the system, along with the effects of these capabilities in Cyrodiil and the upcoming Imperial City. In addition, you need to consider that it enforces (pun intended) participation in a PvP mechanic in PvE zones.
I know you'd like to consider this solely a law enforcement mechanic, but as a full Skill Line designed specifically for use by players against other players... it really isn't.
There are a number of flaws to the justice system, particularly centered around guards. While yes enforcers would would technically be in a pvp engagement with a criminal, whats the point if the criminal can just as easily kill them without seeing them as a real threat they would need to run from, but instead can just fight? Sure, if they die to them they do lose their items and gold and such, but if you can just as easily kill them then lay low for a bit like never ever happened, whats the point of them even being there as enforcers? You may as well just call it world pvp with special flagging conditions.
Crimes? Bounties? Who care about that stuff, because obviously those wouldn't come first. The pvp would. Like I mentioned above. I could see pvp players stealing stuff with the sole intention of fighting the enforcers if enforcers weren't any stronger them some Joe you would find in Cyrodiil, hell, they would probably do it just for fun and kicks. If enforcers aren't powerful, then the penalty for attacking and kill them has to be drastic; very, very drastic. Why? Because like I said, whats stopping the criminal from just killing them rather than considering fleeing? A bounty? How big? For how long? Would it even really matter?
Enforcers would have these mechanics to combat criminals and the rampant crime spree that is pumping gold into the economy through theft, as that is the entire point of the enforcer in the first place. Because they don't get the full value of the bounty, or of the stolen items, they are fleshing currency out of the system through hunting criminals. There is a lot more going on under the hood of the enforcement system then just some pvp mechanics if you stop and think about it.
You sway to far away form the truth of the enforcers existence, then it quickly loses it's true purpose. Beyond that it may as well just be tossed aside in favor of some open world pvp mechanic instead.
I'm just saying. Enforcers shouldn't serve as just another method of pvp, but as something actual criminals must be very wary of.
I know where you're coming from, I get that the intent is more than PvP... but in the end what you propose is a PvP mechanic.
Worried about Enforcers losing too easily?
-> Why wouldn't it be possible to lose when you choose to engage in PvP?
Worried that players would hunt Enforcers just for kicks?
-> Isn't that exactly what Enforcers are designed to do to Criminals?
Worried about too much gold from the rampant crime spree?
-> Wouldn't it be simpler to reduce the sale price of stolen items?
Worried about inattentive Guards?
-> Why not improve the Guard perception radius, especially in obvious locations like the Bank?
I'm just saying that as long as Enforcers are another method of PvP, it needs to be balanced. Remove the player component from either side and the balance issue goes away.Edited by panemetcircenses on August 6, 2015 5:16AM0 -
Wolfshead✭✭✭✭@Azurulia
Or the could just have complete the justice system that way player could hunt down each if people have price on there head which was promised back at QuakeCon 2014 when the was sit there say something like "and ofc other player can hunt you done if you have price on your head" if you dont Believe me look at link below and jump to 52:07 see for yourself.
ESO Future of The Elder Scrolls Online !! QuakeCon 2014 Spellcrafting, Imperial City, Justice SystemIf you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled; for you are in Elysium, and you're already deadWhat we do in life, echoes in eternity0 -
Azurulia✭✭✭panemetcircenses wrote: »<snip>
I know where you're coming from, I get that the intent is more than PvP... but in the end what you propose is a PvP mechanic.
Worried about Enforcers losing too easily?
-> Why wouldn't it be possible to lose when you choose to engage in PvP?
Worried that players would hunt Enforcers just for kicks?
-> Isn't that exactly what Enforcers are designed to do to Criminals?
Worried about too much gold from the rampant crime spree?
-> Wouldn't it be simpler to reduce the sale price of stolen items?
Worried about inattentive Guards?
-> Why not improve the Guard perception radius, especially in obvious locations like the Bank?
I'm just saying that as long as Enforcers are another method of PvP, it needs to be balanced. Remove the player component from either side and the balance issue goes away.
True, but just because it is a pvp mechanic, doesn't mean it absolutely, 100% must be on an even playing field. Not all pvp mechanics have to be "ROUND 1... FIGHT!" Mortal Kombat style engagements where one party has to fight the other to the death to "win."Worried about Enforcers losing too easily?
-> Why wouldn't it be possible to lose when you choose to engage in PvP?
Of course you could lose if you were to engage a criminal as an enforcer, however as an enforcer you are there to stop criminals who are breaking the law, not just out hunting for any single player to engage in pvp. This boils down to the intent and purpose of an "Enforcer" again, as you are "Enforcing the law" not just killing people because you can.Worried that players would hunt Enforcers just for kicks?
-> Isn't that exactly what Enforcers are designed to do to Criminals?
There is a legitimate reason behind why enforcers would hunt criminals. Again, I think you are too focused on seeing this as a straight pvp mechanic more than an actual game mechanic (justice system) itself. There is much more to this than player vs player. Criminals make a lot of money from stealing, fencing, and killing npc's. Crime pays in this game. It pays very, very well. Enforcers would be added in to cut down in that payment and add more risk to breaking the lay for profit.
Stealing should still be profitable, it should just be more difficult to get away with.Worried about too much gold from the rampant crime spree?
-> Wouldn't it be simpler to reduce the sale price of stolen items?
As soon as you begin to nerf the possible gains and make breaking the law less worth it, the less worth it becomes doing. Why bother risking guards and enforcers if the pay out is so little? Wouldn't it be more worth ti to find another means of gold income? The profit from crimes should always be very high, because that is what factors in the risk vs reward. You increase the risk, but lower the reward, it becomes a question of, why even bother?
Enforcers are an added risk in the calculation to off set that large reward. Tampering with the valuable of doing crimes is not the way of going about balancing the justice system. the risk should always be increased before the reward is ever lowered.Worried about inattentive Guards?
-> Why not improve the Guard perception radius, especially in obvious locations like the Bank?
Now this is a very good point, and one I agree with. However banks are the last place to worry about guards in all reality.
Where guards are needed more, and have larger sight ranges, are were the "prizes" are. The stalls, safe box locations, clusters of valuables to be stolen. Places like these is where guards need to be, and to be more alert. Because being spotted by an npc and getting a bounty really isn't that bad because you can just cash in then way out the bounty to decay, or even pay it at a fence, because its value will be tiny in comparison to what you have on you at the time.
Being sported by a guard however, you either have to give back all the stolen items and pay your bounty, or try and run away. More often that not, the real loss for a criminal is in the stolen items they have to give back, not so much in the bounty they have to pay for the 1 in maybe 50 items they just happened to be seen while stealing.
They might have a bounty of 100 gold, but have 5000 gold in stolen items on them on their way back to the fence. This is why guards need to be more available and alert at locations where stolen goods are, because giving back the stolen goods is almost always a bigger loss then the bounties incurred for a good or experienced criminal.Criminal Scum:
50 Breton Templar Healer: Olivine Azshara | 42 Orc Dragonknight Tank: Olivine Claremont | 50 Kahjiit Safe Cracker: Cracks-The-Safes | 50 Kahjiit Serial Killer: Cereal-The-Killer <Current Bounty: 1,231,318 gold>
"Whoever said crime doesn't pay clearly hasn't met Azu." -@Sloris0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_2Jduxc2P8