Why are people accused of acting "entitled" so often?

Azurephoenix999 · August 2015

Like every game, this one is not perfect. As an MMO, this game has a DUTY to evolve over time.

If someone notices something that could be improved upon whilst playing this game, they have the option to point it out to others in the forums.

One thing I've noticed is that almost every single time someone does this, they get spammed with negative comments calling them things like "lazy", "stupid", and "entitled".

The last one is the one that I hate the most, as it's the one I've seen the most often. The people that use this particular word do so because they view the OP as some kind of spoiled brat that wants everything his or her way, and wishes for others to view them that way as well.

Trading in the Forums
I made a thread saying that they should allow trading in the forums, and pointed out many reasons why the current trading system was insufficient. 90% of the comments I received on that thread were people calling me lazy for not joining a guild (I ended up doing so and it hasn't made the trading system any better), and accusing me of acting entitled because "I was asking that the rules be changed for my benefit". Other people accused me of "trying to force my opinion on others" and "having no respect for people's opinions". Literally all I did in that thread was state my opinion and why I felt that way, how on earth is that forcing my opinion on others?

Several others have made similar threads and received the exact same treatment from this community.

Research Times
I thought that, considering it takes over a full year to research every trait, purely because of that timer, that the research times be reduced. Some people agreed with this, saying that it's nothing more than a time sink. Others disagreed (these people were much more hostile in their responses), saying that it needs to take a ridiculously long amount of time so that the people who already accomplished it don't have their achievement devalued.
Someone criticised me for not coming up with an alternative way of doing things, so I did. I came up with a system where someone could reduce research time by completing a daily task, thus allowing those who put more effort and commitment into the game to get rewarded (which, in my opinion, is how EVERY game should reward its players).
When I made a thread asking for CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM, all I got was insults! The second person to respond called it "entitlement at its best" and went on to accuse me of wanting everything "instantly". That particular thread had 30% of people who actually gave me constructive criticism, and 70% of people who hated me for disliking the obscenely long research times. ALL I WAS DOING WAS MAKING A SUGGESTION, JESUS CHRIST!

The system wouldn't have made anything "instant" anyway. It required actual work (as opposed to the current "press a button and wait" system) and rewarded players with a SLIGHT reduction on research time. They'd have to do the daily task EVERY SINGLE DAY for it to have any meaningful impact. But no, most people on the forums insist that everything has to remain exactly as it was before, no matter how stupid it may be.

I'm not the only person to have made a thread on this website about the research times, and every one I've seen has had people reacting in the most hostile of manners.

Map
Here's something that's been bugging me and a handful of others. On the world map, the wayshrine on Eyevea doesn't show up, requiring us to go the Mage's guild first. Does it make me entitled for wanting them to change that!?

Something I've not seen anyone mention on the forums, when at the map of Tamriel, the wayshrines for Craglorn are all spaced incorrectly (they look like they're all squashed into Upper Craglorn). It's a small detail, but it bugs the crap out of me every time I see it. Does it make me entitled for wanting them to change that as well!?

Text/Zone Chat for Consoles
Numerous people have made threads about Text/Zone Chat for consoles? The Group finder tool sucks, meaning if we need partners for a group dungeon, we have to wait outside for OVER AN HOUR spamming everyone we see with group invites. I want Text Chat/Zone Chat for consoles and so do thousands of others, does that also make us entitled!?

Horse hates water
What about the fact that your horse throws you off because of a ***-ING PUDDLE!? DOES IT MAKE ME ENTITLED FOR WANTING THEM TO CHANGE THAT!?

My point

Just because something in the game isn't explicitly "broken", that doesn't mean it's perfect. Pointing out the game's imperfections is how this game is going to evolve. If we don't ask ZOS to change things about the game, then all imperfections within the game, big and small, will remain. We need to have a voice, and the fact that we get shot down by others in such a hostile manner every time we say something makes this game less and less worth returning to.

Asking ZOS to do stuff is how this community gets anything done. You know what proves my point? They didn't add a Vampire/Werewolf bite section on these forums until enough people complained about the fact that there wasn't one. Werewolves were far from unbeatable, but they got nerfed anyway when enough people complained about how OP they were.

You may not agree with the stuff someone else is complaining about, but instead of hurling insults at them at least have the decency to explain why you disagree.

The forums are supposed to be a place for serious discussion, and every idea deserves to be heard. If we change the way we treat each other, the game itself will benefit.

OzJohnD · August 2015

satire ?

Acrolas · August 2015

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

The forums are supposed to be a place for serious discussion

Oh, my dear child...

*The Groundskeeper walks you through how the Internet really works*

Azurephoenix999 · August 2015

OzJohnD wrote: »

satire ?

Not really. I'm referring to how people react with such hostility when someone suggests something that they disagree with.

I saw your comment on the thread about guild limitations. You simply stated why the guy's idea wouldn't work, and I respect you for that.

Azurephoenix999 · August 2015

Acrolas wrote: »

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

The forums are supposed to be a place for serious discussion

Oh, my dear child...

*The Groundskeeper walks you through how the Internet really works*

Yeah, I know. I just think that if the people in the forums genuinely care about the game, then they should be aware that giving constructive criticism to someone instead of bashing them goes a long way.

OzJohnD · August 2015

I think it has a lot to do with internet mentality ... as human beings we tend towards hostility but in real life society there are natural constraints to that behaviour. Those constraints do not exist in the pseudo-anonymous world of the internet.

This is not taking into consideration there are a number of people in this world who are brain-damaged (not meant to be a derogatory term) who's social inhibitions are not responsive to the usual social cues.

Alcohol is one of the commonest "removers" of frontal lobe based behaviour inhibitions, both long term and short term.

Azurephoenix999 · August 2015

OzJohnD wrote: »

I think it has a lot to do with internet mentality ... as human beings we tend towards hostility but in real life society there are natural constraints to that behaviour. Those constraints do not exist in the pseudo-anonymous world of the internet.

This is not taking into consideration there are a number of people in this world who are brain-damaged (not meant to be a derogatory term) who's social inhibitions are not responsive to the usual social cues.

Alcohol is one of the commonest "removers" of frontal lobe based behaviour inhibitions, both long term and short term.

Agreed.

Acrolas · August 2015

I learned during Beta that nothing I write on this forum matters.

I know there's the occasional /lurk, but that boils down to one of two things:

1. Liability limitation.
2. Revenue enhancement.

So, basically, unless I say something that's going to save them a lot of money, or make them a lot of money, I'm pretty much just talking out my butt to the ocean below.

And that frees me to not give a *** and just enjoy the game at my own pace.

Sacadon · August 2015

I've not read your other threads, but most of what you are asking for in this one seems reasonable. There have been some in the past that were very direct about ZOS oweing them something and you may have pushed someone's button on that specifically. Sometimes people just have bad days and aren't on their best behavior and some are just master aholes, but many on the forums do genuinely care about this game.

Who really knows why people act and do what they do. Most don't even know themselves. I'd sure like to know, but in the interim it doesn't really matter. Instead just set the example of the behavior you'd like to see in others by responding and interacting with those interested in the type of dialog you want and ignore the rest of the noise.

Azurephoenix999 · August 2015

Acrolas wrote: »

I learned during Beta that nothing I write on this forum matters.

I know there's the occasional /lurk, but that boils down to one of two things:

1. Liability limitation.
2. Revenue enhancement.

So, basically, unless I say something that's going to save them a lot of money, or make them a lot of money, I'm pretty much just talking out my butt to the ocean below.

And that frees me to not give a *** and just enjoy the game at my own pace.

Yeah, ZOS doesn't seem to care all that much about this game.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good game. GOOD. It could be so much better.

Rastoric · August 2015

Good Point!

Azurephoenix999 · August 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

I've not read your other threads, but most of what you are asking for in this one seems reasonable. There have been some in the past that were very direct about ZOS oweing them something and you may have pushed someone's button on that specifically. Sometimes people just have bad days and aren't on their best behavior and some are just master aholes, but many on the forums do genuinely care about this game.

Who really knows why people act and do what they do. Most don't even know themselves. I'd sure like to know, but in the interim it doesn't really matter. Instead just set the example of the behavior you'd like to see in others by responding and interacting with those interested in the type of dialog you want and ignore the rest of the noise.

Don't get me wrong, there are some pretty severe bugs out there that ZOS HAS to fix. I believe there's one where if you buy crowns, they don't actually get added to your account.

I've never fallen victim to this myself, but if that happens, ZOS owes those people either the crowns they paid for, or a full refund for said crowns.

As for other stuff, ZOS doesn't technically owe us stuff, but there are a lot of things in the game that aren't nearly as polished as they should be. An example would be those two map mistakes I pointed out. They're both minor things that can be avoided, but they're still things that should be fixed.

FilthyMudcrabs · August 2015

ESO went free to play - which means that adding new content/fixing bugs/listening to player requests is just not going to happen as often as we want.

Azurephoenix999 · August 2015

FilthyMudcrabs wrote: »

ESO went free to play - which means that adding new content/fixing bugs/listening to player requests is just not going to happen as often as we want.

I know, it really sucks.

Azurephoenix999 · August 2015

FilthyMudcrabs wrote: »

ESO went free to play - which means that adding new content/fixing bugs/listening to player requests is just not going to happen as often as we want.

Also, "I'VE FOUGHT MUDCRABS MORE FEARSOME THAN-oh. Nevermind."

phairdon · August 2015

The game went free to play? When did this happen?

Azurephoenix999 · August 2015

phairdon wrote: »

The game went free to play? When did this happen?

I think a few months before the console version was released in June.

Psychobunni · August 2015

political buzzword

Nebthet78 · August 2015

I think they come up with the whole entitlement argument because they actually have no intelligent counter argument to come up with as to why something should not be considered.

dday3six · August 2015

It's the new buzzword shut down of arguments. People don't want to have to defend their case when they can just accuse you of being "X" and hope that the stigma of being perceived as "X" will silence you.

DXCortEX · August 2015

dday3six wrote: »

It's the new buzzword shut down of arguments. People don't want to have to defend their case when they can just accuse you of being "X" and hope that the stigma of being perceived as "X" will silence you.

New?? It's been around for a few years already! Remember Mass Effect?

I see it mostly as a viceral, emotive reaction to argument. Really, what can they say if they just feel that it shouldn't change? What argument is there to bring up other than "No, i like it like that", if its just how you feel? Couple that with the inherent human resistance to change, and absolute anonymity, and those emotions translate as insults and pityful comments.

Even OP's emotions are reflected in this post, as a come back to those he perceived as being antagonist to his ideas. It's much more poised though, as this poster has effectively a better grasp on words and less of a knee-jerk reaction. Nonetheless, this whole thread is an emotional reaction too: more people are discussing the connotation of "entitlement" than discussing the points that are brought up. Only one of those issue can bring change, however. Expecting people to become good or polite following this would be irrationnal.

thunderwell · August 2015

FilthyMudcrabs wrote: »

ESO went free to play - which means that adding new content/fixing bugs/listening to player requests is just not going to happen as often as we want.

"Free to play" as in "you still have to BUY the game, but you don't have to pay the monthly sub"?
Yes.
You sound like an elitist that has already bought the game... Oh, wait.

Tholian1 · August 2015

Who cares if they call you entitled when you make suggestions to better the game for you and others. When they respond with that, they are only saying they have no logical counter argument and hope belittling you will shut you up so they don't have to come up with one. School yard tactics. Nothing more.

Valrien · August 2015

FilthyMudcrabs wrote: »

ESO went free to play - which means that adding new content/fixing bugs/listening to player requests is just not going to happen as often as we want.

*cough* not free to play *cough*

Korah_Eaglecry · August 2015

DXCortEX wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

It's the new buzzword shut down of arguments. People don't want to have to defend their case when they can just accuse you of being "X" and hope that the stigma of being perceived as "X" will silence you.

New?? It's been around for a few years already! Remember Mass Effect?

I see it mostly as a viceral, emotive reaction to argument. Really, what can they say if they just feel that it shouldn't change? What argument is there to bring up other than "No, i like it like that", if its just how you feel? Couple that with the inherent human resistance to change, and absolute anonymity, and those emotions translate as insults and pityful comments.

Even OP's emotions are reflected in this post, as a come back to those he perceived as being antagonist to his ideas. It's much more poised though, as this poster has effectively a better grasp on words and less of a knee-jerk reaction. Nonetheless, this whole thread is an emotional reaction too: more people are discussing the connotation of "entitlement" than discussing the points that are brought up. Only one of those issue can bring change, however. Expecting people to become good or polite following this would be irrationnal.

Its still a subject as a community we should tackle. Allowing players to throw around hot button words like 'entitled' 'selfish' 'no-lifer' and so forth, we continue to allow the forums to devolve into a hate spewed environment where constructive criticism is ignored or buried. Ive seen plenty of game forums turn into nothing more then a bottomless argumentative name calling pit.

Theres a good reason why places like Reddit are preferred by game developers to seek out constructive criticism because atleast there on Reddit the visceral can be contained with active moderators that can quickly stamp it out.

panemetcircenses · August 2015

Short answer: "entitled" =

DXCortEX · August 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

DXCortEX wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

It's the new buzzword shut down of arguments. People don't want to have to defend their case when they can just accuse you of being "X" and hope that the stigma of being perceived as "X" will silence you.

New?? It's been around for a few years already! Remember Mass Effect?

I see it mostly as a viceral, emotive reaction to argument. Really, what can they say if they just feel that it shouldn't change? What argument is there to bring up other than "No, i like it like that", if its just how you feel? Couple that with the inherent human resistance to change, and absolute anonymity, and those emotions translate as insults and pityful comments.

Even OP's emotions are reflected in this post, as a come back to those he perceived as being antagonist to his ideas. It's much more poised though, as this poster has effectively a better grasp on words and less of a knee-jerk reaction. Nonetheless, this whole thread is an emotional reaction too: more people are discussing the connotation of "entitlement" than discussing the points that are brought up. Only one of those issue can bring change, however. Expecting people to become good or polite following this would be irrationnal.

Its still a subject as a community we should tackle. Allowing players to throw around hot button words like 'entitled' 'selfish' 'no-lifer' and so forth, we continue to allow the forums to devolve into a hate spewed environment where constructive criticism is ignored or buried. Ive seen plenty of game forums turn into nothing more then a bottomless argumentative name calling pit.

Theres a good reason why places like Reddit are preferred by game developers to seek out constructive criticism because atleast there on Reddit the visceral can be contained with active moderators that can quickly stamp it out.

Look, i was merely giving a theory as to why people reacted by calling OP entitled, like the title asked. I also just said that it was pointless to try to change other people to be good. I wasn't saying you can't discuss it or propose ideas to curb what you perceive as a problematic tendency. Beside, your solution would seem to be about more moderation, which would be a different issue than changing people. It's more about keeping the bad elements out than bringing change to them.
I don't think that stopping people from saying "entitled" and other buzz words would bring much change to keep constructive criticism from being ignored here, too. If a majority of people who answered OP disagreed with him and just said he was "entitled" to want these changes, stopping them from having a voice wouldn't matter in the end.

Mind you, i'm not disagreeing with you, as i've also seen other forums delve into some bad parts of the human psyche. Or act like elementary schoolyards. Same thing, really.

Bromburak · August 2015

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

The forums are supposed to be a place for serious discussion, and every idea deserves to be heard.

As the question, so the answer. What goes around, comes around.

If we change the way we treat each other, the game itself will benefit.

Very romantic, but you cannot change people.

There are many OP that have a very disrespectful way to adress issues or communicate with others.
Its questionable if they really have a point that needs to be heard.

Perhaps some kids and immature adults never learned how to communicate properly with other people in a forum.
But this is no excuse to act emotional and spread narrow minded perspectives and being less constructive.

Many OP just don't have a point and they don't even care about similar existing topics.
They overact and think their own thread is a 1 st world problem and central point of everything.

This is just not the way how to expect respect from readers or start a serious discussion.
As the question, so the answer.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO · August 2015

I definitely would like the crafting research times dropped. 24 - 30 days per 8th and 9th trait is ridiculous especially when you are only given 3 slots at max level. Capping those times at 14 days / and or increasing the max slots would be appropriate.

The initial time investment spent in researching items feels natural and rewarding but gets old really fast when you have to wait a disproportionate amount of time for the last few traits. I feel the biggest problem ESO has in general is it is too grindy. Grinding isn't fun or rewarding. What is fun is feeling like you've achieved something. When I think back on games which were released pre 2000 the vast majority were built around the concept of good solid gameplay. You logged in and played those games for the interaction with other players and the fact that they were fun.

UrQuan · August 2015

In the context of games, I consider someone to be entitled when they want everything handed to them without having to put in any effort. There are a lot of posts on the forums that amount to that.

Having said that, @Azurephoenix999 I certainly wouldn't consider that to apply to any of the specific things you mention in your post. Asking for a way to be able to instantly learn all of the traits without putting in any time or effort (aside from probably spending crowns on it)? That would be a good example of what I consider to be entitled.

I know that's not what you were asking for, though, and I don't have a problem with asking for an alternate system that allows you to put in effort to reduce research time. Heck, I found my own alternate method in order to learn all 8 traits (which was all there was at the time) much faster than I would have been able to by doing it the traditional way (by splitting up my crafting in each profession across multiple characters), so clearly I have no issue with putting in some extra effort (in my case the extra effort was leveling clothing & blacksmithing on multiple characters, making sure those characters were all able to get to each crafting station, putting in the skill points on all of them, finding and learning the motifs on all of them, and then actually hopping from one character to another each time I wanted to craft a new set of gear) in order to achieve a goal more quickly. Actually, I think the only thing I posted in the thread where you were advocating a change to the system was basically telling people how to do it the way I did it (actually a more efficient method than the way I did it).

Azurephoenix999 · August 2015

panemetcircenses wrote: »

Short answer: "entitled" =

I certainly hope that's not feces being thrown.