Give every character access to every racial passive?

Troneon · August 2015

Why not just give all characters access to all racial passives but on an attribute system with limited points.

Then everyone would have access to which ever passives they like, balance is the same and what you pick for your race would be purely based on lore and cosmetics?

Then you could always reset your racial attributes / passives and try new ones whenever you like. It would also remove the whole Imperial is the best pay2win argument as well.

Just an idea.

AlnilamE · August 2015

Then it would not be an Elder Scrolls game.

Troneon · August 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

Then it would not be an Elder Scrolls game.

How so?

Hope499 · August 2015

Troneon wrote: »

Just an idea.

A terrible one...

I hope this is just a sarcastic joke of some sorts.

Hope499 · August 2015

Troneon wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Then it would not be an Elder Scrolls game.

How so?

We should give all templar abilities and all DK abilities to all nightblades too, right?

Bookwyrm · August 2015

Troneon wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Then it would not be an Elder Scrolls game.

How so?

Because then they're not racial passives. They're just passives.

Elder Scrolls has always (or at least almost always) had racial passives. Choice of race has always had an impact (however large or small) on character development.

Troneon · August 2015

Did you even read the OP? Never said anything about abilities....

You would have the same amount of passives you have now, you would just be able to take the points you have in passives now and put then in different passives.

A bit like how attributes work now but with a lower limited number of points.

That way everyone can choose from any of the passives in the game for their build and racial choice is about lore and cosmetics, not stats or builds.

Unless they give racial changes in the crown store soon, what other ideas do you have?

NewBlacksmurf · August 2015

The racial passive that many TES players experienced in other TES games were limited by race which drives a forced choice at character creation. Those passive in many opinions should remain locked behind a race to align with lore and other realities of TES.

For those reasons only, I don't think Zenimax should unlock them

newtinmpls · August 2015

No

whyB · August 2015

This would get rid of character creation entirely. This is a terrible idea, in my opinion. If you can't choose between one of two racial passives? Well, tough...choose or don't play. But, opening all RACIAL passives open to all players, regardless of their RACE defeats the purpose of the character model and customization.

IWannaBeATiger · August 2015

They aren't racial passives at that point they'd be character traits which would be more in line with a Fallout MMORPG.

Olivierko · August 2015

I wouldn't mind if we could choose between a couple of racial passives that are restricted to the race, but opening up all passives for all races isn't a good idea, regardless of how much I'd like the idea to abuse the best passives.

What I would want to see is the possibility to customize the passives to your playstyles benefit; eg stamina reg vs magicka reg etc.

Ever since the remake of critical strike chance the Khajiits that use magicka has very little use of their passives.

FilthyMudcrabs · August 2015

whyB wrote: »

This would get rid of character creation entirely. This is a terrible idea, in my opinion. If you can't choose between one of two racial passives? Well, tough...choose or don't play. But, opening all RACIAL passives open to all players, regardless of their RACE defeats the purpose of the character model and customization.

Sure, if you have no creativity. What if a wood-elf was born to a breton and another wood elf? Surely they would inherit a boost to magicka.

markt84 · August 2015

FilthyMudcrabs wrote: »

whyB wrote: »

This would get rid of character creation entirely. This is a terrible idea, in my opinion. If you can't choose between one of two racial passives? Well, tough...choose or don't play. But, opening all RACIAL passives open to all players, regardless of their RACE defeats the purpose of the character model and customization.

Sure, if you have no creativity. What if a wood-elf was born to a breton and another wood elf? Surely they would inherit a boost to magicka.

??? If a man is raised by wolves that doesn't make him a wolf

Isarii · August 2015

Hope499 wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Then it would not be an Elder Scrolls game.

How so?

We should give all templar abilities and all DK abilities to all nightblades too, right?

I mean, I'd personally love a classless system, but I know that's not what you meant.

waterfairy · August 2015

I prefer the traditional method of each race having a specific passive but if they were to implement this in ESO then I think that choosing passives outside your race should be penalized...a 10% bonus should be a 5% when used by a different race.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · August 2015

lets throw all elder scroll lore outa the window, why not .... -_-

markt84 · August 2015

Yeah this is just dumb. Races would just be skins, you can cherry pick from any race, and he is talking about mix breeding to make the "fit" in the lore. Yeah what a character creation nightmare that would be for zos. Yeah I'm an imperial/Orc/kajit/dummer, give me the character creation tools to make that zos. Geez, pick a race, run with it. Don't like it, make a new one

k9mouse · August 2015

Hope499 wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Just an idea.

A terrible one...

I hope this is just a sarcastic joke of some sorts.

Then the races will lose value and meaning. A player has 9 races and 4 classes to choose from so "CHOSE WISELY!" It adds to replay value, make the game last longer and more interesting to play. There some very good reasons that we have classes and races. Also, the same can be said about fractions. I want to be proud of my fraction, race and class! Everyone can be anything, then it has no value anymore and everyone be the same cookie cut build, race, class. How boarding and silly that will be!

Troneon · August 2015

Then they need to bring racial change options to the store or in game...

Unless you guys can think of a better idea?

I see no problem with having racial passives like attributes, then players can choose race on how it looks and what lore / style they like....rather than based on having a high elf for magicka build when they dont even like high elf, or imperial for tank but they want to play another race...

It gives more options but I guess some people can't see that because "thats not how previous es game were like wahhh!"

Waffennacht · August 2015

Its a TES game first, mmorpg second. Your idea flips that around.

Again as other's said, there would be no point to race. Also if your character is high elf magicka and youwant to be melee. Well time to make a new character.

We are lucky to have respec abilities, I remember back in the day when you had to live with your choices. Its a way to,fix a mistake, not to just out and out make a,new character with a high level

TheShadowScout · August 2015

Every so often someone comes up with an idea like that, to destroy all racial differences and make the passives just another pool to cherry-pick whatever is best for your build.

It was a bad idea the first time it has been mentioned, and hasn't gotten better yet.

TES has always had racial differences, though the exact effects may vary from game to game... but argonians have always been at home in water, redguards always have had an edge (no pun intended) in swordswinging, altmer and bretons were always magically touched, nords have always been tough and cold-dwelling, dunmer have always had a nice resistance to flame, et cetera.

I for one would hate to see these differences vanish. Especially since it often is half the fun to play with mismatching builds (Yes, I do run a dunmer nightblade, an argonian dragonknight, a nord sorceror... and doing fine with them.)

As for race change... I expect it is only a matter of them working out all the codings, and will eventually show up in the crown store. Most likely, together with, or as later addition to, an character recustomization feature. Not today, but someday in the near future. Why wouldn't they want to make a extra profit from FotM chasers?

Rinmaethodain · August 2015

NOONE EVER complained that they had a high elf in group and thanks to his racial passives to magicka and spells they finished boss earlier/had better run

NO. Racial passives are racial for a reason. They are assigned to a race.

Soon when players will be allowed to either change race of existing character or just swap set of racial passives to other race it will be fair, since everyone will be able to pick race they want (even if they made character long time ago and made mistake picking race).

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

markt84 · August 2015

Troneon wrote: »

Then they need to bring racial change options to the store or in game...

Unless you guys can think of a better idea?

I see no problem with having racial passives like attributes, then players can choose race on how it looks and what lore / style they like....rather than based on having a high elf for magicka build when they dont even like high elf, or imperial for tank but they want to play another race...

It gives more options but I guess some people can't see that because "thats not how previous es game were like wahhh!"

I guess a game has to change all of its character creation mechanics because someone wants to cherry pick racial skills. I mean why stop there, let's have no classes either. That way I can heal myself with temp abilites, hide with NB abilites, throw a massive shield up with sorc abilities, and just be a bad dude with the DK abilities, ow yeah and throw in there all the racial skills I decide to cherry pick too. And I want to be an argonian kajit, I want a cat shaped head with scales, and I want wings so I can fly

newtinmpls · August 2015

Troneon wrote: »

It gives more options but I guess some people can't see that because "thats not how previous es game were like wahhh!"

Many of us are here because we love the world, the setting, the lore.

Personally I'm a total Morrowind addict; my spouse has over 3,000 hours in Skyrim.

If you want a generic/fantasy/MMO go find another game.

If you want to play here, it's much more fun to embrace and explore the exciting and sometimes frustrating lore.

Troneon · August 2015

For those saying im a pvp whiner or blaming my death on racial passives or because I want to cherry pick racial skills...

Firstly I do PVX, pretty much everything in the game, once was 1 keep away from emperor but who cares? It's a game, I do all sorts of what the game has to offer. Second my main is a high elf templar so I personally am happy with my racial choice I have no reason to change, it was more of an idea for people who are unhappy with their choice due to weak passives or because they want to change from magicka to stamina or for some other reason.

I see no reason why those people unhappy with their racial passives should be forced to start from scratch again when they could have a racial change or a system that does not penalize people depending on patch notes and the current meta builds don't work with thier racial passives. For example I have a friend who is a nightblade high elf and likes stamina builds so he never even puts in skillpoints to his racial passives or even uses them, they are just wasted....so he is either forced to have a weaker character and use stamina or re roll completely and pick another race and start a totally different build just for magicka based builds...

I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with my idea with good reason but there needs to be some kind of idea or option to solve this issue. I threw the idea out there because every day you see posts and threads started about racial changes and complaints about weak passives and unbalance....

Why should players be forced to re roll from scratch every time they want to switch from stamina to magicka or because there passives don't match what they need or use? Why should people who want to play khajiit but don't like the passives be forced to use them for example.

You can't just say "but that's your problem this is an elder scrolls game", it is an MMO as well whether you like it or not, players should have the option to change their race if they need or choose to for whatever reason.

For me personally I don't even need it as I don't play alts much and my main is High Elf Templar Magicka build anyway....I don't even need or want to change...

DenMoria · August 2015

But then race wouldn't matter! That's not right. Race is very important in 99% of games. It's a choice.

Let's just go ahead and make everybody a 6' white male with white hair and brown eyes for everybody to play. It would be like the Witcher games only without any variety at all and 100,000 of the same witcher running around.

What's next? Every class should have access to every class' abilities (if you spend the points)? Every faction should be able to play and faction anywhere because they want to?

As I said in another post, that's a wonderful thing about TES games. Your choices matter! Sure, not as much as in some games, but you have to make choices.

Tandor · August 2015

Troneon wrote: »

Unless they give racial changes in the crown store soon, what other ideas do you have?

Here are two options for you:-

1. Leave things as they are.

2. Give ZOS the necessary feedback for them to make changes to the way the different races' passives balance out.

If there is a balancing issue then it should be addressed by ZOS as a normal part of their fine-tuning, and not imposed as a Crown Store purchase. However, if such changes are only required for PvP then they should not be implemented in such a way as to impact negatively on PvE.

Personally, I don't have any problems with the racial passives and I'd leave them as they are. I certainly wouldn't support the OP's suggestion, it's a horrid idea that totally changes the whole structure of character development.

Troneon · August 2015

Tandor wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Unless they give racial changes in the crown store soon, what other ideas do you have?

Here are two options for you:-

1. Leave things as they are.

2. Give ZOS the necessary feedback for them to make changes to the way the different races' passives balance out.

If there is a balancing issue then it should be addressed by ZOS as a normal part of their fine-tuning, and not imposed as a Crown Store purchase. However, if such changes are only required for PvP then they should not be implemented in such a way as to impact negatively on PvE.

Personally, I don't have any problems with the racial passives and I'd leave them as they are. I certainly wouldn't support the OP's suggestion, it's a horrid idea that totally changes the whole structure of character development.

Option 1...doesn't work as does not solve the issue

Option 2...doesn't matter if they balance passives or not, people still want the option to change race...

Whendim_ESO · August 2015

The notion of "this is not fair" is not relevant. It is what it is. You want to try a different play style with different strengths and weaknesses? Go roll a new character it's not unfair. It provides more gameplay.

DenMoria · August 2015

Troneon wrote: »

For those saying im a pvp whiner or blaming my death on racial passives or because I want to cherry pick racial skills...

Firstly I do PVX, pretty much everything in the game, once was 1 keep away from emperor but who cares? It's a game, I do all sorts of what the game has to offer. Second my main is a high elf templar so I personally am happy with my racial choice I have no reason to change, it was more of an idea for people who are unhappy with their choice due to weak passives or because they want to change from magicka to stamina or for some other reason.

I see no reason why those people unhappy with their racial passives should be forced to start from scratch again when they could have a racial change or a system that does not penalize people depending on patch notes and the current meta builds don't work with thier racial passives. For example I have a friend who is a nightblade high elf and likes stamina builds so he never even puts in skillpoints to his racial passives or even uses them, they are just wasted....so he is either forced to have a weaker character and use stamina or re roll completely and pick another race and start a totally different build just for magicka based builds...

I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with my idea with good reason but there needs to be some kind of idea or option to solve this issue. I threw the idea out there because every day you see posts and threads started about racial changes and complaints about weak passives and unbalance....

Why should players be forced to re roll from scratch every time they want to switch from stamina to magicka or because there passives don't match what they need or use? Why should people who want to play khajiit but don't like the passives be forced to use them for example.

You can't just say "but that's your problem this is an elder scrolls game", it is an MMO as well whether you like it or not, players should have the option to change their race if they need or choose to for whatever reason.

For me personally I don't even need it as I don't play alts much and my main is High Elf Templar Magicka build anyway....I don't even need or want to change...

In you example, shouldn't an Altmer Nightblade have a certain handicap because they chose that way of life? Altmer's are known for the magical abilities, Bretons are known for their magic resistance, Khajit are known for being sneaky, Bosmer are known for magic & combat, Orcs for strength and blind fury, Nords for strength and frost resistance, etc...

As far as I'm seeing, choosing a life outside the norms for your racial group should come with some handicaps. I'm playing a Nord Magicka Templar in heavy. Does that mean that I think he should get the magicka bonuses that the Altmers do? Of course not, it's not in his genes.

However - this brings up a question for me: Are there respec options later in the game? Are there options to switch classes or pick up other class abilities after, say, you reach the V levels or even the post V16 levels?

Just wondering. Once thing I always loved about Skyrim was that I was able to play as one type of character and, when the time came, switch it up by taking on new abilities (My Orc 2 handed warrior, once he maxed out his abilities in his chosen fields decided to dabble in some magic or alchemy or whatever). I don't remember seeing anything about this kind of stuff in ESO.

And YES! I know it's not Skyrim online - I was just using an example.