Please join me in talking about the future.

rager82b14_ESO · August 2015

This is not just about ESO, but the future of mmos. I feel like over the years MMORPG has changed, and we are reaching more and more to a crossroad of changes. If you look at the market, and what is coming out. Developers are going back more to the roots of sandbox nature of things. (be that good or bad I don't know.). They are trying to find a balance of theme park and sandbox that could bring out the most in the world.

This thread is not a serious thread, My two cents are not facts, and I will gladly read how you feel about things as well.

Convenience, this word brings mix feelings to some mmo players. (ones I talked to about this same topic.) People use this word, with causal, and feels that it ruins MMORPGS. When I asked why? I get the answer of... Item value, risk vs reward, and when you can easily do some thing, it makes it not feel as rewarding.
Over the years I have played mud games like Avalon, To Tabletop games like many of you. I feel that convenience is not such a bad thing. When I look back at Ultima Online, or being a Raid Leader in EQ/wow. The tools we have now are some of the things, that I would have loved to have. Games advance, and so do our tastes. HOWEVER I feel that while the convenience of many tools are welcome. The game play elements has not advanced enough for them.

Content.
We the players burn through it faster than developers can push it out. Why is that? Well that is because we have not come out with a better system yet that adds Convenience with core game play elements.

For example. Looking For Group tool. (not ESO tool mind you. <.<) is a great tool. It lets people enjoy content on his or her own time, instead of spamming chat, or depend heavily on finding friends on. In the past, our guild had each other phone numbers and during some times we would call each other asking they want to group and do things or could they help with some quests. Times have changed. (thank god because my wife would kill me if I gave our number out.). However, at the price of convenience. The dungeon experience has lost its luster. It is about getting it over with as quickly as you can because you have done it so many times.

See what I am getting at? Convenience is amazing thing, but we have changed, and too much of a fun thing, can become tedious. (this same logic goes for raids.).

So my question to you my friends. What Ideas do you have that can balance convenience with less burn out?

Merlin13KAGL · August 2015

Later, perhaps.

Lenikus · August 2015

not much of a discussion to have ... MMORPGs are losing the RPG part, mostly because most 'gamers' now have a competitive mind set.
The games will reply to that, and will have mediocre content, lore and story, in turn of a 'optimized' pvp experience, wich will never be enough because as long as there is a competition, there will be losers, and as long as there are losers, there are crying babies who will cry 'nerf'.

Sad future. cherish what we have, and wait the next call of duty to go and community should be a bit better for a while.

oh but we should totally talk sometime, mods will definetely /lurk here too

Sausage · August 2015

I predict big bets are over. Game industry has been burned so many times. Sometimes less is more. Alt-making is becoming the next trend, as its so easy to add tons of content to the game via them. Gear-raiding is over. Games are still themeparks as MMORPG genre is too deep in it. Also I think PVP MMO as Planetside 2 has opened the door now are coming. B2P + shop is definitely it, subs are dead. Sci-fi is the way of the future as Destiny came and I believe EA is making Mass Effect MMO with some super innovative space sim combat. CD Projekt RED joins the battle with Cyberpunk.

Atlaz · August 2015

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

This is not just about ESO, but the future of mmos.

Just reading your first line I knew it was going to be a crazy wall of text. I would be fine with the game if it didn't demand to force you to do so many quest, that's just boring. Very peeved on Craglorn no longer being viable. It's practically a sick and twisted joke.

Nestor · August 2015

The base game play should be Convenient. The UI should be Convenient. Inventory Management should be Convenient. These things should not be a chore for the player and get in the way of the game play.

Equipment and Supplies needed to make your character more powerful should not be convenient. This does not mean everything related should be a grind or a time sink, but it should require effort and time to make it happen. Whether you craft it, raid it, or loot it. How much effort should scale to how good the stuff your getting to use is.

Anzriel · August 2015

Of course most games are themepark now, the hardcore gamer is the minority of any game, casual to semi-casual players will be the majority therefor content is aimed towards those players. Any MMO I've played any hardcore or pvp oriented content has been more of a situation of 'tossing pvp players a bone' more than anything. Raids aren't as common because they're harder to organize and the number of solo players seems to honestly be on the rise. Also the 'glory days' aren't as great as some people seem obsessed with making them. Just like music, books and general culture we tend to see things like MMOs of the past with rose-tinted glasses.

rager82b14_ESO · August 2015

I agree, but I don't like to have the doom and gloom mindset. What people enjoy now can always change in the future, and developers will follow that trend because lets face it. That is how to pay the bills.

I can't fault them with that.

I know tech is not around for it yet, but I would love for the world itself to be ever changing. I am not sure how, with phase tech? A whole zone phases with what players do.

Picture logging on and wondering what is going on next. Instead of logging on with a chore list. (mind you that play style is not bad for some people. Options for all in my book!.)

Picture things people do in a zone, quests or other events shape that zone. You log on one day, and demons are wrecking stuff. Log on the next day, and help with rebuilding? *crafters and such can help* quests and world changes. Sure people would be like. Omg why rebuild when it going to get wrecked again, but that might give more of a reason to want to defend them. Just fun ideas like that are key I think.

How about dungeons that can scale to how you want it? Lets say that you fill out a form at a inn, looking for a job. You put down how many are with you. How tough, and they give you a place to go. You get to it, and a random dungeon is made for you..or zone for you. Would give lots more meaning to the champion system as well, as you want to grow stronger to do higher risk/reward jobs that could scale to anyone time/play style.

I love options.

jeanbulinckxub17_ESO · August 2015

Addons: This is the first MMO with addons i play. While some addons are great and is good to have this kind of crowd build feature I fell the most popular addons can be incorporated in the UI because:

1) Addons decrease performance, decreasing the number we need is a must
(any serious plyer in ESO must geta dozen addons for exploration, a dozen more for PvP a dozen more for trade, a dozen more for craft...)

2) Popular addons are well tested and well reiceved.

3) Can be cheap to incorporate in default UI.

4) They add a lot of convenience.

Resume, addons are great but too many are perceived as lazy development.

Mods: Elder Scrolls developed a big communit for moders and that was lost on ESO. A MMO capable of moding ill get a lot more of cheap content. It adds convenience and content at the same time.

Events: We need more events, not only guild/players events but global server events from the developers. ESO lacks that kind of event and I pity it. Cannot think in triple A MMO without it. Not much a convenience but it adds a lot of (reusable) content and do not burn out fast as it's last just a few days.

UltimaJoe777 · August 2015

I CAN SEE THE FUTUUUUUUUUUR!

And in said future I will finish drinking my soda.

Mitchblue · August 2015

MMO's are more single player these days. Back in the day, whether you could solo something or not, was done in a group. Be it leveling, or dungeons or PVP. I solo and I'm not even in a guild.. I don't see it as a requirement these days. Nor do I see as adding enjoyment.

I would like to see an MMO, where bosses (even in caves) or main story, require multiple people.

Tavore1138 · August 2015

MMOs (and off-line games) were hardcore when gamers were hardcore and overall there were fewer games and gamers - players hear hark back to early MMOs but early off-line games often had no save system and were much harder to beat than the current crop.

Now a game like ESO is trying for as many players of Skyrim (and Oblivion and DA) as it can get onboard and many of those players are 'casual' - although that term covers a wide range of expectations and play styles. BNUt commercially they don't need a few thousand top end gamers they need tens or hundreds of thousands of average players just coming in and doing their average thing and having a blast doing it. If they make it too hard or gate the best stuff behind stuff only 0.001% of the base can do then people will moan and people will go elsewhere - and from the company perspective they make a lot more from 100,000 casuals paying for content and horse skins vs. 5,000 experts doing the same but probably not bothering with the horse skins.

The necessary result is that the vast majority of content, gear and so on has to be accessible to everyone or the company behind the game will haemorrhage players to a more accessible game and be left with a small core of hardcore players and an unsustainable business model.

In ESO SO is a great example of content that for most players is simply not achievable, for others is a tough & rewarding challenge and for more is too easy and boring. The profit for a company like ZOS lies somewhere between the first 2 groups.

Hardcore games founder in this market because to make a game that looks and plays as pretty as WoW costs a lot of money and dev time so you need a big enough player base to support that - and as many devs are also hardcore gamers someone needs to rein in their instinct to make the games they want to play and keep them focused on making games that the mass market will want to pay for.

All in all words like casual, accessible and convenience are going to dominate the big name games because they need to recoup the cost of making them.

Hard core gamers are going to be increasingly driven towards niche games specifically pitching for their business or less fully featured games who can afford to survive on a smaller player base.

Anzriel · August 2015

jeanbulinckxub17_ESO wrote: »

Addons: This is the first MMO with addons i play. While some addons are great and is good to have this kind of crowd build feature I fell the most popular addons can be incorporated in the UI because:

1) Addons decrease performance, decreasing the number we need is a must
(any serious plyer in ESO must geta dozen addons for exploration, a dozen more for PvP a dozen more for trade, a dozen more for craft...)

2) Popular addons are well tested and well reiceved.

3) Can be cheap to incorporate in default UI.

4) They add a lot of convenience.

Resume, addons are great but too many are perceived as lazy development.

Mods: Elder Scrolls developed a big communit for moders and that was lost on ESO. A MMO capable of moding ill get a lot more of cheap content. It adds convenience and content at the same time.

Events: We need more events, not only guild/players events but global server events from the developers. ESO lacks that kind of event and I pity it. Cannot think in triple A MMO without it. Not much a convenience but it adds a lot of (reusable) content and do not burn out fast as it's last just a few days.

Sorry but I disagree, oftentimes people making add-ons and mods end up adding quite a bit to the game in terms of easy customization. This would probably just end up being harder handing it off to devs to maintain, given how much stuff they mess up with the current work load. >.>

Mods are sometimes as good as DLCs and even expansions in some cases, aside from being hard to regulate it would keep many people, perhaps myself included from spending money on official content.

I do agree some kind of event, such as an in-game holiday, or something to gain some items and distract those who may be getting tired of the grind. Some may disagree on this point however. XD

Mitchblue · August 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

MMOs (and off-line games) were hardcore when gamers were hardcore and overall there were fewer games and gamers - players hear hark back to early MMOs but early off-line games often had no save system and were much harder to beat than the current crop.

Now a game like ESO is trying for as many players of Skyrim (and Oblivion and DA) as it can get onboard and many of those players are 'casual' - although that term covers a wide range of expectations and play styles. BNUt commercially they don't need a few thousand top end gamers they need tens or hundreds of thousands of average players just coming in and doing their average thing and having a blast doing it. If they make it too hard or gate the best stuff behind stuff only 0.001% of the base can do then people will moan and people will go elsewhere - and from the company perspective they make a lot more from 100,000 casuals paying for content and horse skins vs. 5,000 experts doing the same but probably not bothering with the horse skins.

The necessary result is that the vast majority of content, gear and so on has to be accessible to everyone or the company behind the game will haemorrhage players to a more accessible game and be left with a small core of hardcore players and an unsustainable business model.

In ESO SO is a great example of content that for most players is simply not achievable, for others is a tough & rewarding challenge and for more is too easy and boring. The profit for a company like ZOS lies somewhere between the first 2 groups.

Hardcore games founder in this market because to make a game that looks and plays as pretty as WoW costs a lot of money and dev time so you need a big enough player base to support that - and as many devs are also hardcore gamers someone needs to rein in their instinct to make the games they want to play and keep them focused on making games that the mass market will want to pay for.

All in all words like casual, accessible and convenience are going to dominate the big name games because they need to recoup the cost of making them.

Hard core gamers are going to be increasingly driven towards niche games specifically pitching for their business or less fully featured games who can afford to survive on a smaller player base.

I guess I have a different definition of casual. I always thought casual as the one who has less time to play, only. They still want what hard core players want but they just play less. Then we have the care bears, those are the ones who want easy..

UltimaJoe777 · August 2015

Mitchblue wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

MMOs (and off-line games) were hardcore when gamers were hardcore and overall there were fewer games and gamers - players hear hark back to early MMOs but early off-line games often had no save system and were much harder to beat than the current crop.

Now a game like ESO is trying for as many players of Skyrim (and Oblivion and DA) as it can get onboard and many of those players are 'casual' - although that term covers a wide range of expectations and play styles. BNUt commercially they don't need a few thousand top end gamers they need tens or hundreds of thousands of average players just coming in and doing their average thing and having a blast doing it. If they make it too hard or gate the best stuff behind stuff only 0.001% of the base can do then people will moan and people will go elsewhere - and from the company perspective they make a lot more from 100,000 casuals paying for content and horse skins vs. 5,000 experts doing the same but probably not bothering with the horse skins.

The necessary result is that the vast majority of content, gear and so on has to be accessible to everyone or the company behind the game will haemorrhage players to a more accessible game and be left with a small core of hardcore players and an unsustainable business model.

In ESO SO is a great example of content that for most players is simply not achievable, for others is a tough & rewarding challenge and for more is too easy and boring. The profit for a company like ZOS lies somewhere between the first 2 groups.

Hardcore games founder in this market because to make a game that looks and plays as pretty as WoW costs a lot of money and dev time so you need a big enough player base to support that - and as many devs are also hardcore gamers someone needs to rein in their instinct to make the games they want to play and keep them focused on making games that the mass market will want to pay for.

All in all words like casual, accessible and convenience are going to dominate the big name games because they need to recoup the cost of making them.

Hard core gamers are going to be increasingly driven towards niche games specifically pitching for their business or less fully featured games who can afford to survive on a smaller player base.

I guess I have a different definition of casual. I always thought casual as the one who has less time to play, only. They still want what hard core players want but they just play less. Then we have the care bears, those are the ones who want easy..

Casual players are basically players that play for fun and don't give a rat's ass about being the best. I am one of those people and while I do my best to be MY best I don't care if I'm not in general THE best because frankly there is no such thing. I am a completionist though so it will take a spit ton of effort to become Emperor...

Mitchblue · August 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Mitchblue wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

MMOs (and off-line games) were hardcore when gamers were hardcore and overall there were fewer games and gamers - players hear hark back to early MMOs but early off-line games often had no save system and were much harder to beat than the current crop.

Now a game like ESO is trying for as many players of Skyrim (and Oblivion and DA) as it can get onboard and many of those players are 'casual' - although that term covers a wide range of expectations and play styles. BNUt commercially they don't need a few thousand top end gamers they need tens or hundreds of thousands of average players just coming in and doing their average thing and having a blast doing it. If they make it too hard or gate the best stuff behind stuff only 0.001% of the base can do then people will moan and people will go elsewhere - and from the company perspective they make a lot more from 100,000 casuals paying for content and horse skins vs. 5,000 experts doing the same but probably not bothering with the horse skins.

The necessary result is that the vast majority of content, gear and so on has to be accessible to everyone or the company behind the game will haemorrhage players to a more accessible game and be left with a small core of hardcore players and an unsustainable business model.

In ESO SO is a great example of content that for most players is simply not achievable, for others is a tough & rewarding challenge and for more is too easy and boring. The profit for a company like ZOS lies somewhere between the first 2 groups.

Hardcore games founder in this market because to make a game that looks and plays as pretty as WoW costs a lot of money and dev time so you need a big enough player base to support that - and as many devs are also hardcore gamers someone needs to rein in their instinct to make the games they want to play and keep them focused on making games that the mass market will want to pay for.

All in all words like casual, accessible and convenience are going to dominate the big name games because they need to recoup the cost of making them.

Hard core gamers are going to be increasingly driven towards niche games specifically pitching for their business or less fully featured games who can afford to survive on a smaller player base.

I guess I have a different definition of casual. I always thought casual as the one who has less time to play, only. They still want what hard core players want but they just play less. Then we have the care bears, those are the ones who want easy..

Casual players are basically players that play for fun and don't give a rat's ass about being the best. I am one of those people and while I do my best to be MY best I don't care if I'm not in general THE best because frankly there is no such thing. I am a completionist though so it will take a spit ton of effort to become Emperor...

Do all hardcore players want to be the best? Just curious. There have been times I've been hardcore though I never cared about being the best. I guess maybe I wasn't hard core. Nowadays, I get about 10 hours of game play in per week..

Aeladiir · August 2015

- Sandbox features,
- monthly events (i.e. Tamrielic holidays, massive Molag Bal's invasions, joining the Great Hunt, etc.) ,
- fun activities to waste your time (horse racing, social games, etc.).

DenMoria · August 2015

Are there any games out there that are strictly PvP or MMO concentrating on PvP?

Just want to know which games to avoid like the plague.

Mitchblue · August 2015

DenMoria wrote: »

Are there any games out there that are strictly PvP or MMO concentrating on PvP?

Just want to know which games to avoid like the plague.

I would like a list as well but for the opposite reason.

Tavore1138 · August 2015

Mitchblue wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

MMOs (and off-line games) were hardcore when gamers were hardcore and overall there were fewer games and gamers - players hear hark back to early MMOs but early off-line games often had no save system and were much harder to beat than the current crop.

Now a game like ESO is trying for as many players of Skyrim (and Oblivion and DA) as it can get onboard and many of those players are 'casual' - although that term covers a wide range of expectations and play styles. BNUt commercially they don't need a few thousand top end gamers they need tens or hundreds of thousands of average players just coming in and doing their average thing and having a blast doing it. If they make it too hard or gate the best stuff behind stuff only 0.001% of the base can do then people will moan and people will go elsewhere - and from the company perspective they make a lot more from 100,000 casuals paying for content and horse skins vs. 5,000 experts doing the same but probably not bothering with the horse skins.

The necessary result is that the vast majority of content, gear and so on has to be accessible to everyone or the company behind the game will haemorrhage players to a more accessible game and be left with a small core of hardcore players and an unsustainable business model.

In ESO SO is a great example of content that for most players is simply not achievable, for others is a tough & rewarding challenge and for more is too easy and boring. The profit for a company like ZOS lies somewhere between the first 2 groups.

Hardcore games founder in this market because to make a game that looks and plays as pretty as WoW costs a lot of money and dev time so you need a big enough player base to support that - and as many devs are also hardcore gamers someone needs to rein in their instinct to make the games they want to play and keep them focused on making games that the mass market will want to pay for.

All in all words like casual, accessible and convenience are going to dominate the big name games because they need to recoup the cost of making them.

Hard core gamers are going to be increasingly driven towards niche games specifically pitching for their business or less fully featured games who can afford to survive on a smaller player base.

I guess I have a different definition of casual. I always thought casual as the one who has less time to play, only. They still want what hard core players want but they just play less. Then we have the care bears, those are the ones who want easy..

I think you use and older version - like many definitions it changes with the times.

I would define myself as casual in that I am not 'pro' - but I've completed all the HM trials, I've done the Emp thing more than once, I'm pretty sure I have done every available quest barring a few in Craglorn & I have learnt most skills, crafts, traits and so on - so I am not a part time gamer I'm just not going to sit here and claim to be an expert gamer who wants everything to be maximum difficulty, maximum rush at all times. Thus... casual...

Care bears is just a term that people use to describe anyone they don't agree with but they can't be bothered to come up with a reasoned argument so resort to insult. It used to mean people who wanted games where players were generally nice to each other, but again the term has morphed - I believe the current insult for that type of person is SJW? But it's hard to keep up with you crazy kids...

Obviously the person most likely to use the term care-bear to dismiss an argument is by definition probably a potential grief-er

Gotta love the language MMOs have built up!

Mitchblue · August 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Mitchblue wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

MMOs (and off-line games) were hardcore when gamers were hardcore and overall there were fewer games and gamers - players hear hark back to early MMOs but early off-line games often had no save system and were much harder to beat than the current crop.

Now a game like ESO is trying for as many players of Skyrim (and Oblivion and DA) as it can get onboard and many of those players are 'casual' - although that term covers a wide range of expectations and play styles. BNUt commercially they don't need a few thousand top end gamers they need tens or hundreds of thousands of average players just coming in and doing their average thing and having a blast doing it. If they make it too hard or gate the best stuff behind stuff only 0.001% of the base can do then people will moan and people will go elsewhere - and from the company perspective they make a lot more from 100,000 casuals paying for content and horse skins vs. 5,000 experts doing the same but probably not bothering with the horse skins.

The necessary result is that the vast majority of content, gear and so on has to be accessible to everyone or the company behind the game will haemorrhage players to a more accessible game and be left with a small core of hardcore players and an unsustainable business model.

In ESO SO is a great example of content that for most players is simply not achievable, for others is a tough & rewarding challenge and for more is too easy and boring. The profit for a company like ZOS lies somewhere between the first 2 groups.

Hardcore games founder in this market because to make a game that looks and plays as pretty as WoW costs a lot of money and dev time so you need a big enough player base to support that - and as many devs are also hardcore gamers someone needs to rein in their instinct to make the games they want to play and keep them focused on making games that the mass market will want to pay for.

All in all words like casual, accessible and convenience are going to dominate the big name games because they need to recoup the cost of making them.

Hard core gamers are going to be increasingly driven towards niche games specifically pitching for their business or less fully featured games who can afford to survive on a smaller player base.

I guess I have a different definition of casual. I always thought casual as the one who has less time to play, only. They still want what hard core players want but they just play less. Then we have the care bears, those are the ones who want easy..

I think you use and older version - like many definitions it changes with the times.

I would define myself as casual in that I am not 'pro' - but I've completed all the HM trials, I've done the Emp thing more than once, I'm pretty sure I have done every available quest barring a few in Craglorn & I have learnt most skills, crafts, traits and so on - so I am not a part time gamer I'm just not going to sit here and claim to be an expert gamer who wants everything to be maximum difficulty, maximum rush at all times. Thus... casual...

Care bears is just a term that people use to describe anyone they don't agree with but they can't be bothered to come up with a reasoned argument so resort to insult. It used to mean people who wanted games where players were generally nice to each other, but again the term has morphed - I believe the current insult for that type of person is SJW? But it's hard to keep up with you crazy kids...

Obviously the person most likely to use the term care-bear to dismiss an argument is by definition probably a potential grief-er

Gotta love the language MMOs have built up!

Thank you.

Banky71 · August 2015

Oh I thought this was about all the future. I was looking forward to waxing intellectual about the robot uprising.

Tavore1138 · August 2015

Banky71 wrote: »

Oh I thought this was about all the future. I was looking forward to waxing intellectual about the robot uprising.

First hover-boards... then robot uprising...

Nergie4242 · August 2015

Mitchblue wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Are there any games out there that are strictly PvP or MMO concentrating on PvP?

Just want to know which games to avoid like the plague.

I would like a list as well but for the opposite reason.

Not many about atm especially since WAR died. But camelot unchained which is out next year I think is the one most pvpers I know are holding out for.

Mitchblue · August 2015

Nergie4242 wrote: »

Mitchblue wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Are there any games out there that are strictly PvP or MMO concentrating on PvP?

Just want to know which games to avoid like the plague.

I would like a list as well but for the opposite reason.

Not many about atm especially since WAR died. But camelot unchained which is out next year I think is the one most pvpers I know are holding out for.

Thanks, I look forward to that as well. I did enjoy my time in WAR.

UltimaJoe777 · August 2015

Mitchblue wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Mitchblue wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

MMOs (and off-line games) were hardcore when gamers were hardcore and overall there were fewer games and gamers - players hear hark back to early MMOs but early off-line games often had no save system and were much harder to beat than the current crop.

Now a game like ESO is trying for as many players of Skyrim (and Oblivion and DA) as it can get onboard and many of those players are 'casual' - although that term covers a wide range of expectations and play styles. BNUt commercially they don't need a few thousand top end gamers they need tens or hundreds of thousands of average players just coming in and doing their average thing and having a blast doing it. If they make it too hard or gate the best stuff behind stuff only 0.001% of the base can do then people will moan and people will go elsewhere - and from the company perspective they make a lot more from 100,000 casuals paying for content and horse skins vs. 5,000 experts doing the same but probably not bothering with the horse skins.

The necessary result is that the vast majority of content, gear and so on has to be accessible to everyone or the company behind the game will haemorrhage players to a more accessible game and be left with a small core of hardcore players and an unsustainable business model.

In ESO SO is a great example of content that for most players is simply not achievable, for others is a tough & rewarding challenge and for more is too easy and boring. The profit for a company like ZOS lies somewhere between the first 2 groups.

Hardcore games founder in this market because to make a game that looks and plays as pretty as WoW costs a lot of money and dev time so you need a big enough player base to support that - and as many devs are also hardcore gamers someone needs to rein in their instinct to make the games they want to play and keep them focused on making games that the mass market will want to pay for.

All in all words like casual, accessible and convenience are going to dominate the big name games because they need to recoup the cost of making them.

Hard core gamers are going to be increasingly driven towards niche games specifically pitching for their business or less fully featured games who can afford to survive on a smaller player base.

I guess I have a different definition of casual. I always thought casual as the one who has less time to play, only. They still want what hard core players want but they just play less. Then we have the care bears, those are the ones who want easy..

Casual players are basically players that play for fun and don't give a rat's ass about being the best. I am one of those people and while I do my best to be MY best I don't care if I'm not in general THE best because frankly there is no such thing. I am a completionist though so it will take a spit ton of effort to become Emperor...

Do all hardcore players want to be the best? Just curious. There have been times I've been hardcore though I never cared about being the best. I guess maybe I wasn't hard core. Nowadays, I get about 10 hours of game play in per week..

It really depends on how competitive they are. Some hardcore players prefer to be ballbusters over reigning supreme and will do what it takes to achieve this. Others simply enjoy the thrill of the action and excitement regardless of the odds but still get salty if overwhelmed constantly.

Casual and hardcore are general categories basically measuring how much you endeavor to get through the game. Hardcore players usually breeze through to get to the PvP whereas casuals take their time and enjoy every aspect including PvP.

Banky71 · August 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Banky71 wrote: »

Oh I thought this was about all the future. I was looking forward to waxing intellectual about the robot uprising.

First hover-boards... then robot uprising...

Fair point but hover boards already exist so look out.

kupacmac · August 2015

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

So my question to you my friends. What Ideas do you have that can balance convenience with less burn out?

Ultimately it's going to take an evolution in game design. I think GW2 did a good job of showing us what an MMO can be like without having to read/hear boring quest dialog and then *imagine* that it's actually happening. You don't initiate quests, they're occurring all around you (for example, the bears actually ARE attacking the town). It was fun to do quests in GW2, and players worked together as opposed to dreading seeing someone else doing the same quest you were doing. Where GW2 failed though, is everything is just on a loop (albeit with some minor branching), so once you've been through that quest "event" a few times, it's old and boring. A company needs to take that to the next level and improve the AI so it actually becomes unpredictable. They could even have events that if left unchecked could lead to mass takeovers of villages, cities, and even zones. Then add sandbox elements so players can reinforce/upgrade the cities and outfit NPC guards to help protect it.

Gyudan · August 2015

Mitchblue · August 2015

kupacmac wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

So my question to you my friends. What Ideas do you have that can balance convenience with less burn out?

Ultimately it's going to take an evolution in game design. I think GW2 did a good job of showing us what an MMO can be like without having to read/hear boring quest dialog and then *imagine* that it's actually happening. You don't initiate quests, they're occurring all around you (for example, the bears actually ARE attacking the town). It was fun to do quests in GW2, and players worked together as opposed to dreading seeing someone else doing the same quest you were doing. Where GW2 failed though, is everything is just on a loop (albeit with some minor branching), so once you've been through that quest "event" a few times, it's old and boring. A company needs to take that to the next level and improve the AI so it actually becomes unpredictable. They could even have events that if left unchecked could lead to mass takeovers of villages, cities, and even zones. Then add sandbox elements so players can reinforce/upgrade the cities and outfit NPC guards to help protect it.

I remember when, GW2, I fought my first dragon. I think it was in the later zone and it was freakin' awesome. The first several times. But because the dragon already spawned at the same time, in chat you'd here.."Dragon, 10 minutes." And as the fight was going on most people just ran from one area to another because we already knew where the 2nd phase of the fight was going to be. Eventually I got bored and hated it. Too scripted.

Emma_Overload · August 2015

I think the biggest issue that MMOs fail to address is the DIVERSITY of their player base. Some players like to play in large groups, some players like to play in small groups or duos, and some players like to play solo. Unfortunately, most MMOs have a bad habit of catering mainly to the first group, those who like to play in large groups.

Even though it doesn't seem like it when you first start playing, ESO is one of those MMOs, unfortunately. ZOS stubbornly refuses to provide a meaningful endgame experience to solo players, even though their own game from levels 1 to 50 is a great example of what is possible. Furthermore, ZOS refuses to address problems with ESO's grouping mechanism, making it incredibly difficult for solo players to group even when they want to!

ZOS needs to wake up and begin to address the needs of it's ENTIRE player base, not just the privileged few. If they don't, ESO will eventually become another bitter anecdote in the long history of failed MMOs.