Bolt Escape..............

Septimus_Magna · August 2015

Most people dont seem to understand that the entire survival mechanicsm of sorcs is build on bolt escape and hardened ward. Mainly because sorcs dont have any other abilities to mitigage damage. IC has a lot of corners so there's no need to bolt more than 4x in a row to line of sight your enemies. In open world pvp on the other hand, sorcs will be a lot weaker because half of their survival is crippled by the recent bolt escape nerf.

Skwor · August 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Most people dont seem to understand that the entire survival mechanicsm of sorcs is build on bolt escape and hardened ward. Mainly because sorcs dont have any other abilities to mitigage damage. IC has a lot of corners so there's no need to bolt more than 4x in a row to line of sight your enemies. In open world pvp on the other hand, sorcs will be a lot weaker because half of their survival is crippled by the recent bolt escape nerf.

And Templars have nothing for a survival mechanism, the heals in 1v1 are completely underwhelming, DPS far exceeds the best heals for 1v1, trying to heal in a PVP 1v1 encounter is pretty much a guarantee of death.

So I am just not seeing an issue with these changes to BE

k2blader · August 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Most people dont seem to understand that the entire survival mechanicsm of sorcs is build on bolt escape and hardened ward. Mainly because sorcs dont have any other abilities to mitigage damage. IC has a lot of corners so there's no need to bolt more than 4x in a row to line of sight your enemies. In open world pvp on the other hand, sorcs will be a lot weaker because half of their survival is crippled by the recent bolt escape nerf.

The crazy thing is even very experienced PvPers don't seem to understand (or refuse to admit it). It really feels like they want paper sorcs to have no viable defensive abilities. Assuming the change that shields can be crit also goes through, that will likely be the case. Maybe folks are kind of gloaty-happy about this. I don't know why.

Tectonaut · August 2015

How about they just replace all our abilities/attacks with pillows and we can just carefully hit each other with those...nobody can be mad if we're all the same right? Right??

dlepi24 · August 2015

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »

They are making the cost increase stack in Update 7.

Which may have some impact, but is missing the point. The problem is not with the cost, not with some N-th bolt escape. The problem is the second bolt escape immediately after the first. If a sorc pulls this off while fighting another class, he is out of combat and can simply walk away, or regen and try again (i.e. cancel fights he is about to lose and cherry pick fights he will win).
There needs to be cooldown, not increase in cost.

Is this real life? You can use a gap closer....as many times (if not more) as a sorc can. Don't have one on your bar? GG, you got out played. Can we please just stop crying nerf at everything? It's really getting old and making PvP even more stale. Before you say it - No, I don't play as a sorc right now.

amatic · August 2015

Sneak_Thief · August 2015

Ducere wrote: »

......About to kill a sorcerer?! He bolt escapes 100m away, stacks shields, regens to max health. . . . . . .

Yep this is PVP for sorcs, cant kill em.

FilthyMudcrabs · August 2015

If DKs can pull sorcs off of ledges, sorcs should be able to bolt away. It's only fair.

Korah_Eaglecry · August 2015

FilthyMudcrabs wrote: »

If DKs can pull sorcs off of ledges, sorcs should be able to bolt away. It's only fair.

They can bolt away. They just cant use it as a Get Out of Jail Free Card anymore.

No other class, including NBs have an ability that can literally remove themselves from a hostile situation where they are outnumbered and out dueled and be able to keep an uncloseable distance between them and their attackers.

Ive watched many players with different classes and different builds try and slip away when theyre surrounded and outnumbered and the only ones to do it with success and ease time and again are Sorcs with their BE popping over and over again as they Trollololol across the Cyrodiil landside.

Now that the ability has been nerfed to the point that you arent going to be able to use it more then a handful of times. Sorcs will have to actually play defensively at times rather than play recklessly on the offensive the majority of the time. Just like every other class is expected to play smart and use their strengths while being aware of their weaknesses.

k2blader · August 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

FilthyMudcrabs wrote: »

If DKs can pull sorcs off of ledges, sorcs should be able to bolt away. It's only fair.

They can bolt away. They just cant use it as a Get Out of Jail Free Card anymore.

No other class, including NBs have an ability that can literally remove themselves from a hostile situation where they are outnumbered and out dueled and be able to keep an uncloseable distance between them and their attackers.

Ive watched many players with different classes and different builds try and slip away when theyre surrounded and outnumbered and the only ones to do it with success and ease time and again are Sorcs with their BE popping over and over again as they Trollololol across the Cyrodiil landside.

Now that the ability has been nerfed to the point that you arent going to be able to use it more then a handful of times. Sorcs will have to actually play defensively at times rather than play recklessly on the offensive the majority of the time. Just like every other class is expected to play smart and use their strengths while being aware of their weaknesses.

Tell me, how do you envision sorcs "playing defensively"? Just curious what you as a non-sorc player might think.

Using BE itself-- particularly BoL which is the 'defensive morph' yet is getting nerfed such that it isn't even worth a slot-- is the exact definition of defensive.

[edit] Not even going to bother addressing your hyperbole about endlessly bolting sorcs as it's just old and stale, and folks who use that excuse just tend to be bad players.

Septimus_Magna · August 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

FilthyMudcrabs wrote: »

If DKs can pull sorcs off of ledges, sorcs should be able to bolt away. It's only fair.

They can bolt away. They just cant use it as a Get Out of Jail Free Card anymore.

No other class, including NBs have an ability that can literally remove themselves from a hostile situation where they are outnumbered and out dueled and be able to keep an uncloseable distance between them and their attackers.

Ive watched many players with different classes and different builds try and slip away when theyre surrounded and outnumbered and the only ones to do it with success and ease time and again are Sorcs with their BE popping over and over again as they Trollololol across the Cyrodiil landside.

Now that the ability has been nerfed to the point that you arent going to be able to use it more then a handful of times. Sorcs will have to actually play defensively at times rather than play recklessly on the offensive the majority of the time. Just like every other class is expected to play smart and use their strengths while being aware of their weaknesses.

Besides bolt escape Hardened Ward and Deadric Mines are the only useful skills when it comes to defense.
If your enemy is smart enough not to step on the mines there's not much you can do to defend yourself.
The only tool sorcs have is to shield and run in outnumbered situations.

Korah_Eaglecry · August 2015

k2blader wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

FilthyMudcrabs wrote: »

If DKs can pull sorcs off of ledges, sorcs should be able to bolt away. It's only fair.

They can bolt away. They just cant use it as a Get Out of Jail Free Card anymore.

No other class, including NBs have an ability that can literally remove themselves from a hostile situation where they are outnumbered and out dueled and be able to keep an uncloseable distance between them and their attackers.

Ive watched many players with different classes and different builds try and slip away when theyre surrounded and outnumbered and the only ones to do it with success and ease time and again are Sorcs with their BE popping over and over again as they Trollololol across the Cyrodiil landside.

Now that the ability has been nerfed to the point that you arent going to be able to use it more then a handful of times. Sorcs will have to actually play defensively at times rather than play recklessly on the offensive the majority of the time. Just like every other class is expected to play smart and use their strengths while being aware of their weaknesses.

Tell me, how do you envision sorcs "playing defensively"? Just curious what you as a non-sorc player might think.

Using BE itself-- particularly BoL which is the 'defensive morph' yet is getting nerfed such that it isn't even worth a slot-- is the exact definition of defensive.

[edit] Not even going to bother addressing your hyperbole about endlessly bolting sorcs as it's just old and stale, and folks who use that excuse just tend to be bad players.

I think its hilarious that you think I dont have a sorc just because I dont side with you on this issue.

The simple fact is, if youre in the middle of the fight and completely surrounded. You shouldnt get a get out of jail free card to save you every time from your own stupidity.

And as far as playing defensively. You can play the same way every other intelligent PvPer does. By staying aware of the situation. Staying with a group instead of storming into a hornets nest. Avoid spreading out when confronting the enemy. And learn to back off when youre outnumbered.

FriedEggSandwich · August 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

FilthyMudcrabs wrote: »

If DKs can pull sorcs off of ledges, sorcs should be able to bolt away. It's only fair.

They can bolt away. They just cant use it as a Get Out of Jail Free Card anymore.

No other class, including NBs have an ability that can literally remove themselves from a hostile situation where they are outnumbered and out dueled and be able to keep an uncloseable distance between them and their attackers.

Ive watched many players with different classes and different builds try and slip away when theyre surrounded and outnumbered and the only ones to do it with success and ease time and again are Sorcs with their BE popping over and over again as they Trollololol across the Cyrodiil landside.

Now that the ability has been nerfed to the point that you arent going to be able to use it more then a handful of times. Sorcs will have to actually play defensively at times rather than play recklessly on the offensive the majority of the time. Just like every other class is expected to play smart and use their strengths while being aware of their weaknesses.

Tell me, how do you envision sorcs "playing defensively"? Just curious what you as a non-sorc player might think.

Using BE itself-- particularly BoL which is the 'defensive morph' yet is getting nerfed such that it isn't even worth a slot-- is the exact definition of defensive.

[edit] Not even going to bother addressing your hyperbole about endlessly bolting sorcs as it's just old and stale, and folks who use that excuse just tend to be bad players.

I think its hilarious that you think I dont have a sorc just because I dont side with you on this issue.

The simple fact is, if youre in the middle of the fight and completely surrounded. You shouldnt get a get out of jail free card to save you every time from your own stupidity.

And as far as playing defensively. You can play the same way every other intelligent PvPer does. By staying aware of the situation. Staying with a group instead of storming into a hornets nest. Avoid spreading out when confronting the enemy. And learn to back off when youre outnumbered.

"learn to back off when outnumbered", with what skill? Mist form? Sorcs use streak to do everything you mentioned in your last paragraph, but we're not allowed to use it more than once? I know you didn't say that, but the op did.

FriedEggSandwich · August 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

FilthyMudcrabs wrote: »

If DKs can pull sorcs off of ledges, sorcs should be able to bolt away. It's only fair.

They can bolt away. They just cant use it as a Get Out of Jail Free Card anymore.

No other class, including NBs have an ability that can literally remove themselves from a hostile situation where they are outnumbered and out dueled and be able to keep an uncloseable distance between them and their attackers.

Ive watched many players with different classes and different builds try and slip away when theyre surrounded and outnumbered and the only ones to do it with success and ease time and again are Sorcs with their BE popping over and over again as they Trollololol across the Cyrodiil landside.

Now that the ability has been nerfed to the point that you arent going to be able to use it more then a handful of times. Sorcs will have to actually play defensively at times rather than play recklessly on the offensive the majority of the time. Just like every other class is expected to play smart and use their strengths while being aware of their weaknesses.

NBs can teleport to their shade.

Messy1 · August 2015

. . . . . is awesome!

Bodybuilder · August 2015

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

I do believe BE is just a tad OP because of its capabilities:
1) Deals damage
2) Hard CC.
3) Adds distance by a considerable amount (i. to escape. ii. to regen and resume combat)

Unlike any other class abilities, BE is just OP compared to other class's defensive abilities. State any Class Abilities that provide the same benefits as BE does (as shown above). I bet you can't name any as there is none. The only skill that is similar (but doesn't come anywhere near) to BE is Magnum Shot and that is just a Weapon skill. Plus, MS effects can't be applied over and over to attempt a successful escape as you have to be in range to execute the ability.
I've never asked for a nerf but I feel that BE actually needs one. The removal of 1) or 2) given in the first paragraph would put BE on par with other defensive/escaping class abilities. I personally have no problems whatsoever with BE's escaping distance. It's just that the skill offers waay too much benefits. Not one Sorc leaves the skill out just like NBs with cloak (even though cloak is broken). It is just essential to their survival so essentially, I'm not asking to remove BE whatsoever. Just a request to tone it down by a bit. It's not like it'll be useless to Sorcs should the nerf I suggested is implemented.

Sleep wrote: »

......About to kill a templar?! He burst heals himself to max health. . . .
......About to kill a nightblade?! He disappears and regens to max health. . . .
......About to kill a dragonknight?! He bashes you with his shield and kills you instead. . . .

@Sleep Only problem is that cloak is broken and it still is in 2.1 (as tested in PTS) and it is most likely to not ever get a fix. Ever. Thus, rendering cloak to be sub-par compared to what it can actually provide in its full potential. Again, ZOS didn't fix what they have promised. It's barely a surprise nowadays. I just hope it gets fixed by the time 2.1 goes live.

Bolt escape just as op as fear every 6 seconds, gf stamina @ sorcs, magica dks, magica nb's

olsborg · August 2015

Ducere wrote: »

......About to kill a sorcerer?! He bolt escapes 100m away, stacks shields, regens to max health. . . . . . .

Have you heard of gap closers?

G0ku · August 2015

Azalin76 wrote: »

iTzStevey wrote: »

Lol sorcs are gonna die ALOT in U7. Shields nerfed by 50%, meaning if you have a 15k shield it'll only be 7.5k in pvp, that ontop of only having 16k health or maybe 20k if you've managed it will make sorcs very weak. 7.5k shield +16k health is nothing in pvp. Especially when people are spamming 10k snipes. Pointless going stamina based as sorc is the worst stam based class in the game.

As for the OP literally all you have to do is keep CC on a sorc, he'll either run out of stamina fast so you can perma stun him or die. So he can get away from a fight, get his bearings and then come back ready for another round, so what? EVERY person would do the same in a situation where he's losing.

But they are also nerfing damage done by 50% so that 10k snipe becomes only 5k

He already calculated that, my snipes hit for decent 20k right now.

btw I get killed while bolting away all the time; either I am not the best sorc (most likely) or those who are crying for nerf again just need to adjust their tactics? There are more bad sorcs than good ones out there just because you met some good ones doesnt mean the skill is OP

Sneaky-Snurr · August 2015

Bodybuilder wrote: »

Bolt escape just as op as fear every 6 seconds, gf stamina @ sorcs, magica dks, magica nb's

I agree that Fear is OP too due to its unblockable nature but do realise that BE can be applied over and over and over again unlike Fear which actually provide CC immunity after breaking-free and you would only be wasting magicka if you cast Fear 3 times in a row. It is in contrast to what you said. Fearing every 6 seconds can be managed well by anyone (ask around and they'll gladly confirm you this). It's a clear L2P issue if that isn't the case.

Thalmor-Nordmaster · August 2015

where is our lol button ?

mrdankles · August 2015

Love my escape. Nerf it, nerf the stupid DK jump... Sorcerers deserve to be able to just get far away. Cloth armor..come on now.. Hit us SO HARD.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2015

Kammakazi wrote: »

Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »

They are making the cost increase stack in Update 7.

So each cast will cost 50% more if used within 4 seconds and it will just keep increasing...

http://esoacademy.com/news/update-7-patch-notes-summary/#update-7-skills-changes

But each cast already is 50% more after each consecutive cast? (I'm on console)

Umm no the cost goes up 50% once stays their but with the new change it will keep going up by 50% per cast within 4 seconds of the last one.

JamilaRaj · August 2015

dlepi24 wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »

They are making the cost increase stack in Update 7.

Which may have some impact, but is missing the point. The problem is not with the cost, not with some N-th bolt escape. The problem is the second bolt escape immediately after the first. If a sorc pulls this off while fighting another class, he is out of combat and can simply walk away, or regen and try again (i.e. cancel fights he is about to lose and cherry pick fights he will win).
There needs to be cooldown, not increase in cost.

Is this real life? You can use a gap closer....as many times (if not more) as a sorc can. Don't have one on your bar? GG, you got out played. Can we please just stop crying nerf at everything? It's really getting old and making PvP even more stale. Before you say it - No, I don't play as a sorc right now.

Sure you can. Assuming a) you do it in less than a second, b) a sorc bolted into your FOV (if he did not, a) would not hold) and c) did not stun you (if he did, a) would not hold). Now let's exaggerate and let's say chance that all three conditions will be met is whopping 50%. If one of them is not met, the sorc's second bolt will carry him out of any gap closer's range (which is ultimately the draw of bolt escape).
50% chance to bail out of combat would alone be quite good. An (sub-)avergage player with 1:1 KD ratio would, after slotting it, of 4 fights win 2, bail out from 1 and lose 1, i.e. suddenly improved to 2:1.
But the ridiculous bit is this: a sorc can initiate several 50:50 checks during a single fight, increasing his chance to to get away to arbitrarily high number. With just three bolts, the chance goes up to 75%. Of 8 fights, an average player would win 4, bailed out in 3 cases and lost 1; his KD ratio would improve to 4:1.

crytantrevors · August 2015

The game is working as intented stop complaining im not even a sorcerer but nerfing an abilty that is ment for escaping is pointless... Last time i checked if they didnt have that move every sorcerer in pvp would just die instantly. Omg i cant kill some one waaaaaaa nerf nerf nerf i want god mode but none else can have it but me... Seriosly thats what all you people on here sound like. Do us all a favor since your new to mmorpgs and just quit and go back to call of duty

Leeric · August 2015

So you arent complaining that Sorcerers can kill you but that they can run away? Seriously, thats not even a valid complaint, oh no! the Sorc can run away from you....how terrible....

These forums man....

Artheiron · August 2015

if you think you can't kill a sorc because bolt escape you totally got no idea what makes them op. take that skill off a pro shield scripter will own you on 1v1.

Alucardo · August 2015

Cool. more nerfs. Maybe if people keep moaning we'll get left with 3 spells and nothing else

Mud pie: Caster lobs a handful of mud into the targets eye causing minor irritation

Leave: Attempt to get out of a tricky situation using slow movement in the opposite direction of your target. 40% chance of working. If it fails the caster insta-dies.

Wet fart: The smell is almost unbearable. Surrounding enemies get caught off-guard and become stunned

Well at least we've got an AoE stun there. But I better not give ZOS ideas about nerfing the only class I play. They might listen. Yeah, if you can't tell, I'm unhappy right now.

vamp_emily · August 2015

I disagree with nerfing anything.

Each class has their own special skills, let the bolt!

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2015

Bolt needed this nerf for one of you get stunned and don't insta break they will Bolt a second time out of gap closing range. That's not reasonable yes it's an escape but when it works that well, as the game has two escapes Bolt and Cloak now cloak doesn't work near as good as Bolt with many powers Bolt included as hard counters to cloak.

But let's see what else was Nerfed heals cause really hold block + Breathe of Life. Damage cause sneak up Wrecking Blow + light attack + incapacitating strikes and Surprise Attack/Heroic Slash. Blocking cause hold block (get ultimate) + hit Earthen Heart powers (get stamina) + ultimate (get health, magic and stamina) repeat.

All of the BS build were Nerfed all the Bolt Sorcs crying that they can't control all combat is just sad, where are all the healers crying? All the assassins/gankers crying the combat was and is hella effective to effective so yes nerf every got Nerfed.

Nightblade cloak in one way or another had been break like the Templar gap closer since beta. What a big tip from a Nightblade to counter cloak no Mage light or pots needed once it CC break should be bounded one key and should be hit immediately then flare. It works thing is you have to use it.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2015

Plus let's keep it real with the current "nerf" that raised the cost by 50% and stopped it still let's Sorcs Bolt between keeps an escape so good it's used as general travel.