No longer "play how you want"

Goldie · August 2015

One of the selling points of this game was to be able to "play the way you want to play", but in the last year and a half the game has become meta driven and cookie cutter supreme.

In order to play a viable class a player must run a certain build, in specific gear, and have a nearly identical skill rotation as every other player. This makes for players all running around in the same gear, with the same skills, spamming nearly the exact same abilities in order to be successful.

The "Elder Scrolls" has a rich history of players being able to "play how they want to play", setting up their skills NOT by a predetermined set of abilities, but by bringing together skills and abilities that they like to use, and what works for them.

What this game needs is the "Spell Crafting" that was promised and showcased in July 2014, along with a custom class, not some "Dragon Knight" that has absolutely NOTHING to do with dragons, or a joke of a sorcerer that has predetermined spells. What if I want to be a Fire Sorcerer, or perhaps a Sorcerer that is a master of Frost and Alteration spells? The answer: I cant, and there is NOTHING even remotely close to choose from.

The only thing "Elder Scrolls" about ESO is the theme, the locales, and the title. Its not a game where you have the freedom to create your character and develop a uniqueness that sets you apart from everyone else, but instead, its a game where you get the exact same thing that everyone else does.

Try to cover that up by selling a few unique costumes in the crown store, but we all know that underneath that new "Ashlander Costume" is a player wearing the exact same gear as me, running the exact same skills and abilities, doing the exact same grinds over and over and over...

Yattaq · August 2015

"Play how you want" does not equal "everyone is at the same level of effectiveness regardless of the choices they make about their character"

Reeko · August 2015

Think about it. There WILL ALWAYS BE A MIN/MAX META IN ANY RPG YOU PLAY. The fact you play by yourself in other TeS games means you just never learn about it. You CAN play however you want. Does 3% extra hp make that big a deal?

PBpsy · August 2015

They have said that the game will not really be "Play as you want" anymore many moons ago.Not that it was ever. I am to bored and "happy" to dig that obscure one now but trust me they said it.

And no I am not talking about effectiveness. They certainly spear to go the usual way and balance around 5 /4 builds all around.

k2blader · August 2015

Generally agree.

Also I'm so tired of people assuming just because I play a certain class in PvP I'm at exactly the same power level as the highest CP'd, geared, skill point-ed folks of said class and should be "balanced" around them.

EQBallzz · August 2015

It is "play as you want" but that could also just be another way to say "play as inefficiently as you want" or "play as you want regardless of how inferior you are to min/maxers". This game has never really had class or build equality and the fact that it's only ever gotten worse is just an indication that they are consistent!

Goldie · August 2015

Remember guys, I did say to "be successful" and "viable", you CAN play how you want, you just wont make it through any dungeons or be able to play pvp at all.

PBpsy · August 2015

Goldie wrote: »

Remember guys, I did say to "be successful" and "viable", you CAN play how you want, you just wont make it through any dungeons or be able to play pvp at all.

In 1.6 I have a very viable for vet dungeons 7heavy DPS stam NB build. It was not the way I wanted to play but worked well enough. In 1.7 that is joke.

Terranjoe · August 2015

I agree with most of this, but character customization is completely up to the player. Sure there are builds and skills that are said to be the best by the most popular/skilled players, but you are not being forced to copy their builds, you can always create, test, and tweak your own. I believe there is plenty of customization available if you want to take the time to do so wether you choose to stick to the meta or not, who knows maybe you can find a build that is perfect for your playstyle that nobody else has figured out yet

I do agree with you OP that spellcrafting should become a thing, this would create such a diverse emvironment in the game with unique skills amd more unique ways to play.

Paradox · August 2015

It never existed for end-game content or PvP. Ever.

Regardless of what you think, there was always something that was better by far than other options.

Don't mistake this for me agreeing with the system, only that you have to adhere to it if you want to be successful.

Emma_Overload · August 2015

"Play as you want" died for PvE when Craglorn was released with group-walled content. The removal of forward camps accomplished the same thing in PvP: join a zerg to stay alive longer or ride a horse all day in between deaths.

zardenurghanb14_ESO · August 2015

You realize that at its core you can play how you want it isnt the devs that have said "you need to do this and have this gear" its the community

PBpsy · August 2015

zardenurghanb14_ESO wrote: »

You realize that at its core you can play how you want it isnt the devs that have said "you need to do this and have this gear" its the community

I found it quite funny that the pts test gear bags provide all of the necessary gear to fit only the current build meta for all builds though.

Has anybody noticed that?

Thanks for the nice MK,Adroit and Cyro light pieces ZOS.

zardenurghanb14_ESO · August 2015

PBpsy wrote: »

zardenurghanb14_ESO wrote: »

You realize that at its core you can play how you want it isnt the devs that have said "you need to do this and have this gear" its the community

I found it quite funny that the pts test gear bags provide all of the necessary gear to fit only the current build meta for all builds though.

Has anybody noticed that?

Thanks for the nice MK,Adroit and Cyro light pieces ZOS.

never noticed since i dont use it lol but really at its core you can play however you want i mean im a nord vampire nightblade tank but i can also switch off to dps

Mitchblue · August 2015

You can play any way you want. No one says different. If you don't want a cookie cutter don't .. If you want to be a Nord NB with a staff, do it. Who's stopping ya..

PBpsy · August 2015

zardenurghanb14_ESO wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

zardenurghanb14_ESO wrote: »

You realize that at its core you can play how you want it isnt the devs that have said "you need to do this and have this gear" its the community

I found it quite funny that the pts test gear bags provide all of the necessary gear to fit only the current build meta for all builds though.

Has anybody noticed that?

Thanks for the nice MK,Adroit and Cyro light pieces ZOS.

never noticed since i dont use it lol but really at its core you can play however you want i mean im a nord vampire nightblade tank but i can also switch off to dps

There hasn't been much reason to go anything other than 4Mk,2adroit,2Cyro,2Torug's for any good magicka build DPS except for DKs.If you make a template character on the PTS you get a bag with exactly that combo. Stam builds and Tanks get their ravagers and stuff also.

I actually found out that the IC patch tries to push the meta a bit more than usual. I also had some build that worked nicely before but weren't that great. They are a lot lot worse now.

PBpsy · August 2015

.

Goldie · August 2015

zardenurghanb14_ESO wrote: »

You realize that at its core you can play how you want it isnt the devs that have said "you need to do this and have this gear" its the community

You are deada wrong. The "devs" facilitated the current meta by implementing a system that functions as such.

PBpsy · August 2015

Goldie wrote: »

zardenurghanb14_ESO wrote: »

You realize that at its core you can play how you want it isnt the devs that have said "you need to do this and have this gear" its the community

You are deada wrong. The "devs" facilitated the current meta by implementing a system that functions as such.

Exactly.

Pizza_Magician · August 2015

The problem with most of these mmo's is that the developers needed to balance pvp, we would have been with a higher level of detail in a solely pve world, but the bean counters at ZOS were probably against the idea.

starkerealm · August 2015

Goldie wrote: »

In order to play a viable class a player must run a certain build, in specific gear, and have a nearly identical skill rotation as every other player. This makes for players all running around in the same gear, with the same skills, spamming nearly the exact same abilities in order to be successful.

Okay, this is utter shank. If someone tells you you need to run with "this specific loadout" or you can't succeed. Crack them across the head and find competent players to run with.

This includes the sites that write off a bunch of the skills as useless, or tells you that it's impossible to fill any role with any class. Yes, they crunched the numbers. Yes, they're also completely wrong.

Some combinations of skills aren't going to work, but there are very few truly worthless skills in the game. The worst case are skills that are very conditional in their uses.

Goldie · August 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

Goldie wrote: »

In order to play a viable class a player must run a certain build, in specific gear, and have a nearly identical skill rotation as every other player. This makes for players all running around in the same gear, with the same skills, spamming nearly the exact same abilities in order to be successful.

Okay, this is utter shank. If someone tells you you need to run with "this specific loadout" or you can't succeed. Crack them across the head and find competent players to run with.

This includes the sites that write off a bunch of the skills as useless, or tells you that it's impossible to fill any role with any class. Yes, they crunched the numbers. Yes, they're also completely wrong.

Some combinations of skills aren't going to work, but there are very few truly worthless skills in the game. The worst case are skills that are very conditional in their uses.

See if your way of thinking can finish a DSA run in normal mode, or a no death run in COA. You are also dead wrong my friend, its meta gear & cookie cutter builds or nothing.

k2blader · August 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

Goldie wrote: »

In order to play a viable class a player must run a certain build, in specific gear, and have a nearly identical skill rotation as every other player. This makes for players all running around in the same gear, with the same skills, spamming nearly the exact same abilities in order to be successful.

Okay, this is utter shank. If someone tells you you need to run with "this specific loadout" or you can't succeed. Crack them across the head and find competent players to run with.

This includes the sites that write off a bunch of the skills as useless, or tells you that it's impossible to fill any role with any class. Yes, they crunched the numbers. Yes, they're also completely wrong.

Some combinations of skills aren't going to work, but there are very few truly worthless skills in the game. The worst case are skills that are very conditional in their uses.

Do you PvP?

Artis · August 2015

Goldie wrote: »

What this game needs is the "Spell Crafting" that was promised and showcased in July 2014, along with a custom class, not some "Dragon Knight" that has absolutely NOTHING to do with dragons, or a joke of a sorcerer that has predetermined spells. What if I want to be a Fire Sorcerer, or perhaps a Sorcerer that is a master of Frost and Alteration spells? The answer: I cant, and there is NOTHING even remotely close to choose from.

What makes you think that this would change anything? The most powerful combination would be found and required in raids. Or not required, but then anything else would be weaker and you would gimp yourself.

Forestd16b14_ESO · August 2015

Um I'm still playing how I want. Is it the most powerful? No. Do I have fun playing as me? Yes.

Sad part about cookie cutter builds is that no one is forcing any one to use them there just ideas about a build that all it is. It's the player who gives it power because that's saddly how they wanna play being that OP guy who melts every one and every thing in sight. There the ones who want power and as we all know what all mortals with power want is more power so they will be looking for that next build that next meta to be cause all they want is power.

Does it make them a terrible player for doing so? Yes. Can we stop cookie cutter builds and power hungry players? No.

Sad but true for where there is a Triforce there shall be a Ganaondorf seeking after it same as cookie cutter builds to players.

VoidBlue · August 2015

Lol you need spellcrafting because no one will want to copy the best spell craft spells that everyone else uses.

Goldie · August 2015

VoidBlue wrote: »

Lol you need spellcrafting because no one will want to copy the best spell craft spells that everyone else uses.

There are over 600 variations of spells with the spell crafting that was showcased, its essentially a 'custom' build, as it should be for any game that claims to be "Elder Scrolls" which ESO is not.

Rosveen · August 2015

Yattaq wrote: »

"Play how you want" does not equal "everyone is at the same level of effectiveness regardless of the choices they make about their character"

Yes. This. To take the latest entry, think Skyrim and a sneaky archer-conjurer vs. pure destruction mage. As the mage, stun-lock is your only saving grace. But of course, TES games have no balance to speak of. You're a demigod at higher levels (at least it complies with the lore

). Skyrim crafting is stupidly broken. I don't know why anyone would want that Bethesda kind of balance in an MMO.

Bromburak · August 2015

Goldie wrote: »

One of the selling points of this game was to be able to "play the way you want to play", but in the last year and a half the game has become meta driven and cookie cutter supreme.

Still your choice.

In order to play a viable class a player must run a certain build, in specific gear, and have a nearly identical skill rotation as every other player.

Its just the easiest way for casuals that always need a guide for every step they make.
There are several builds, you don't have to be a clone.

This makes for players all running around in the same gear, with the same skills, spamming nearly the exact same abilities in order to be successful.

Its with real life society, your choice of being a blind follower or an individual ...
Do you think the routine of the mass is doubtful? Perfect, do it your way.

Faulgor · August 2015

So, what it comes down to is that you would like to see Spellcrafting?

Well, I can agree with that. But you absolutely can play almost any way you want, even some nonsensical ones like a DW mage. I'm going to make a hybrid in 1.7 and nobody can stop me.
Will it be up there with the most effective? No, of course not, but these things are always a process. I remember when stick + dress was the way to play, the game certainly didn't have more build variability back then.

starkerealm · August 2015

k2blader wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Goldie wrote: »

In order to play a viable class a player must run a certain build, in specific gear, and have a nearly identical skill rotation as every other player. This makes for players all running around in the same gear, with the same skills, spamming nearly the exact same abilities in order to be successful.

Okay, this is utter shank. If someone tells you you need to run with "this specific loadout" or you can't succeed. Crack them across the head and find competent players to run with.

This includes the sites that write off a bunch of the skills as useless, or tells you that it's impossible to fill any role with any class. Yes, they crunched the numbers. Yes, they're also completely wrong.

Some combinations of skills aren't going to work, but there are very few truly worthless skills in the game. The worst case are skills that are very conditional in their uses.

Do you PvP?

Typed that while waiting on a Cyrodiil load screen. Granted, I was running someone else around so they could get Cyrodiilic Steel, so the murder was mostly a side show tonight. Still, plenty of very confused, and dead, Pact and Covenant out there tonight.

But, that's just small scale, where your build and ability to play actually matter, as opposed to being part of a zerg ball, where if you don't know what you're doing, someone else will carry you.

Though, watching multiple (allegedly) skilled V14 die to a couple level 35s was just sad.

Goldie wrote: »

See if your way of thinking can finish a DSA run in normal mode, or a no death run in COA. You are also dead wrong my friend, its meta gear & cookie cutter builds or nothing.

If you can't finish DSA without resorting to a cookie cutter, maybe you should, I don't know, learn the game first.

If you haven't bothered to learn the systems, then it's not really anyone's fault that you're pigeonholed into someone else's "this is how you must play."

Yeah, not everything works. You can put together loadouts that will not function. But if you're looking at people saying that 90% of the abilities you have access to are trash, then you can safely say they don't know what they're talking about either.