Is A Nightblade tank Still viable with the siphoning attacks Changes

Greg · July 2015

Pretty evident what im asking for in the title

TheBull · July 2015

Yeah I think it will be.

Aerathnor · July 2015

I must have missed it. What are they changing about SA?

Cagro · July 2015

Siphoning Attacks is now an activated ability. No more toggle or need to have it on both bars but I read somewhere you have to press it every 10 seconds. I do not play in the PTS so I am not sure if it costs Magicka or any more details.

Aerathnor · July 2015

Ah, that's not so bad depending on duration/chance of proc. If it's every 10 seconds it might be a pain, not to mention a drastic change in how it functions.

ThatNeonZebraAgain · July 2015

I don't think they will be totally dead, just now nearly as good as they used to be unfortunately. Check out this thread for some good discussion: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200972/siphoning-strikes#latest

I've played an Argonian NB tank since 5-day early access of PC launch, and SA has been a cornerstone of that build ever since. First they took away potion effectiveness from Argonians and NBs and effectively made Argonians the weakest race in the game, and now this (on top of the insulting 2% increase to stat return on potions for Argonians). This change seems to be a knee-jerk balance to the change to halting stamina regen while blocking, and effectively makes NB tanks less desirable in groups.

As it is right now, I have to keep up with Refreshing Path (activates Shadow Barrier passive) every 9s and Mirage every 30s (and sometimes Rally and Camo Hunter and Swallow Soul and Degeneration...). Adding another 10s buff will not be impossible to manage, just annoying and tricky to do effectively without addons. Another big change is that Caltrops is no longer considered a melee attack, so one of the main ways to consistently proc SA has also been removed, so I would consider this is a double nerf. Just removing melee attack status from Caltrops and making it so it doesn't proc of each hit of an AoE would have been enough to balance NBs IMO. It also already has an internal cooldown of 1s (at least).

Just logged into PTS, and here's the tooltip from level 4 Siphoning Attacks: "Imbue your weapons with soul-stealing power. For 10 seconds each basic attack restores 958 Magicka and Stamina. All non-basic attacks have a 10% chance of restoring an additional 1916 Magicka and Stamina."

Aerathnor · July 2015

@ThatNeonZebraAgain

I agree wholeheartedly that the caltrops change would be enough. Been leveling up a Stam NB tank and the timers are already rough. I wouldn't mind it if it had at least a 30 sec duration as I'm already swapping to pop Rally so if I could just keep SA on my second bar and make it pretty much a straight buff bar it wouldn't be so bad. Having to pop SA and Path every 9-10 sec will be a pain though. Throw our other short duration buffs in and we will pretty much be just spamming buffs between every taunt.

I'm a little confused by the double whammy, I used SA when I played on PC, I'm using it now that I'm back playing on console (where I have to keep the timers in my head. It's been a cornerstone for NB healers and Tanks for a long time and it's a little baffling. If it stays as is I'll have to run a DK for my tanking, and a Templar for my healing (which is just getting further ahead as they can regen stam for their tanks).

Hardicon · July 2015

I always thought the skill was more to help dps sustain their stamina through long fights. With the debuff to damage removed it is definitely that type of skill now. Never quite figured out why tanks would need this type of skill, no damage mitigation tools, no taunt tools, no damage to help hold agro. It is very obvious ZOS either wants tanks to be more active or the block change is for pvp, one or the other. I like the change for dps personally not sure about the tank aspect though as I just never really saw this skill as a tank skill.

GreenSoup2HoT · July 2015

Siphoning attacks i find is just for when you are about to run out of resource. Get in some auto attacks and your good to go.

I think a bow would work well with this.

Presence · July 2015

@Hardicon

SA before this patch is a key part in survival builds when soloing and in prolonged AOE fights.To be honest, It's kinda borderline OP when tanking because of how you can maintain high resources by proc-ing from caltrops and path of darkness, leading to the best resource management I know in the game. If you were tanking without it, you're missing out a lot. That's why I have it on both bars when I'm tanking.

I understand the need to tone it down especially so the permablock nerf isnt circumvented but I'm reconsidering if its even worth a bar slot at this point. The duration is the worst part of this change and counteracts the benefit of not having to have it on both bars as it's not much better than having to re-toggle the current SA.

I will miss the amount of advantage this skill gives in pve, but I'm ok that its not going to be as OP anymore but they need to revise it. Make the duration 20 seconds at least. preferably 25-30 and it might be more worth it to slot.

Aerathnor · July 2015

@Presence

The Caltrops procs are supposedly being removed though reports from the PTR say that it's still occuring. Removing the proc chance from Caltrops and Path or only allowing them to proc once would have been enough.

I agree that at least 20 sec, preferably 30 sec, would be sufficient for duration as you could keep it on your second bar and pop it as necessary (stam tanks often times already do this with rally).

If it goes through as is it will likely leave my bar completely.

LaughingJack · July 2015

ermm. why do you not try it out and see for yourself, that way you will know if it is any good when Played By You.

Artis · July 2015

I know my tank will be "viable". The question is what viability are you talking about? Pledges? or leaderboards?
Because NB tanks are not really viable in competitive PvE even now, before any changes took place

I think they are though, but try to find other people who will believe in it and will work for good score with you when it is so much easier to go with a dk or a templar.
At some point, I couldn't find a group for vet dsa. And not so long ago I was kicked from an SO group, because we had 3 tanks and 1 had to go. 2 DKs stayed there, I was replaced with a dps and that is even though I completed SO before and actually joined the group when it just started forming.

But I bet NB tank will be able to complete anything even though most likely it won't be the best option, I can tell you that much.

timborggrenlarsenb16_ESO · July 2015

it will never be the same

Turelus · July 2015

Wonder if Leeching Strikes is viable again yet...