How do we fix Champion Points?

Anorak · July 2015

I have seen countless articles describing what is wrong with the champion system with no solutions, I want to use this post as a way to get people to come up with new ideas for a solution! Feel free to put solutions out there so that we can get this situation under control and continue to move the game we love forward!

My personal fix is a champion system exp limit making it harder to earn points as you go up the ranks. This limit of exp would lower the amount of exp you can gain after a certain number of CP is reached. An example is people with 0 CP being able to earn 30 a week and it scaling down as they hit certain thresholds. Now some people would think that "What about all the people with 500+ CP? now I will be stuck behind as they continue to move foward." To address this Zos should implement the system based on a number of factors but the main one being how many CP you had before the change. People with over 400 cp would receive a penalty that begins to scale up for people with 450, 500, 550 and so on. This penalty could be an exp decrease or lowering the CP exp limit beneath what it would normally be if a new player reached the threshold.This penalty would be in effect until the average number of Cp has risen to the point were Zos believes it is okay to remove the penalties. Now when it comes to gaining CP or In terms of actual percentages and the rate at which CP should be earned I'll leave that up to Zos.

If you have any other fixes for PvP or PvE please leave a comment on this forum. It may not seem like much, but we could see one of these solutions saving the game putting it back onto a solid foundation so it can move forward together.

(also when trying to come up with ideas there may be problems so point them out and try to be constructive!)

Valen_Byte · July 2015

Double the number of categories that you can put points into. Or half the number we have now.

So, if there were 72 areas to put 3600 points into, you would have to chose carefully where to put them.

As it stands now, eventually we will all be maxed out with 100 points in every category. In essence we will all have exactly the same build (aside from gear). There is no give and take, no hard choice to make, no sacrifice. Its just a race to the end so that we can all be the same.

I don't know if I explained that well or not lol makes since in my head...but then again, the inside of my head is a weird place. lol

or just scrap it...its crap

Valen_Byte · July 2015

Forgot to mention that they already said they are going to have some sort of 'catch up' mechanic added to the CP system in the future.

It would be something along the lines of the first hundred would take a lot less xp to gain and then would require more xp for each point after that. Something like that. They talked about it on an ESO live or some video I watched.

Gyudan · July 2015

Detonate the Catalyst, Wipe everyone's CPs and Remove the system from the game.
The Sixers are too well coordinated to let it happen though.

Zsymon · July 2015

Imo I think the Champion system is amazing just the way it is, no changes necessary. Except maybe faster progression during the first 300-400 points, but I think they're already working on that, and maybe make non vet pvp CP free.

Anorak · July 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

Imo I think the Champion system is amazing just the way it is, no changes necessary. Except maybe faster progression during the first 300-400 points, but I think they're already working on that, and maybe make non vet pvp CP free.

I would enjoy a CP free pvp for non vet pvp, but something needs to be done for veteran pvp! Also the CP system rewards grinding over playing the content. I think Zos should remove all or 90% of exp earned from mobs and make it so that quests vet dungeons, trials, and dragonstar arena exp goes to your CP gain.

Anorak · July 2015

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Double the number of categories that you can put points into. Or half the number we have now.

So, if there were 72 areas to put 3600 points into, you would have to chose carefully where to put them.

As it stands now, eventually we will all be maxed out with 100 points in every category. In essence we will all have exactly the same build (aside from gear). There is no give and take, no hard choice to make, no sacrifice. Its just a race to the end so that we can all be the same.

I don't know if I explained that well or not lol makes since in my head...but then again, the inside of my head is a weird place. lol

or just scrap it...its crap

I like having more categories for CP, but how would they be split up. I know currently we have multiple categories holding 2 or more effects like boosting all element damage. So perhaps splitting those apart would work. I think that maybe Zos could add some class based passives too just to allow more build diversity for hybrids ect.

nordsavage · July 2015

They won't balance CP for a long time because CP grinding is crowns bought and spent on Exp scroll and etc. The simple answer is to cap it at a few hundred of each section. If people grinded more than that my million or so gold in horses and stables and my hundreds in spoiled pepper (was supposed to sell for replacement value but didn't) is proof enough that they don't care to take what you earned and invested in.

Volkodav · July 2015

I dont even pay attention to them.I might one day,but they dont seem to amount to much anyway at the moment.

Vizier · July 2015

There's really nothing wrong with champion points. Diminishing return. Easy to gain them and VR going away sometime in the future. The CP system is designed to exist without VR. The problem isn't with CP, it's that we still have VR.

Sad truth is those playing high level characters gain xp and CP easier and faster though so that IMO should be fixed to up the gains of lower level toons. PVE CP gains are pretty fast though. The xp is faster their than in PvP so I guess it's a trade off.

Isarii · July 2015

Anorak wrote: »

I have seen countless articles describing what is wrong with the champion system with no solutions

Hey now... (this is a link, since apparently the forum's font makes that almost impossible to see)

In all seriousness though, I agree that the amount of solutions being offered is pretty sparse in comparison to what seems to be near universally accepted as a problem. Great to see more discussion here.

Anorak · July 2015

Vizier wrote: »

There's really nothing wrong with champion points. Diminishing return. Easy to gain them and VR going away sometime in the future. The CP system is designed to exist without VR. The problem isn't with CP, it's that we still have VR.

Sad truth is those playing high level characters gain xp and CP easier and faster though so that IMO should be fixed to up the gains of lower level toons. PVE CP gains are pretty fast though. The xp is faster their than in PvP so I guess it's a trade off.

The problem is that even with the CP system in effect alone you still have people with 400 CP next to people with 100 or less CP. Even in Pve this is an issue as I have seen first hand that I am unable to continuously spam certain abilities with 150 CP and it has lowered my dps by over 5k! This is a big issue as in a trial going for top leaderboard positions any advantage matters. Also you mentioned diminishing return which only effects passives that you have already invested in. This is another issue as people with 300+ CP spread them out to gain the most value from them. Lastly growing stronger from constant grinding of random npcs should not be how your endgame progression works.

Anorak · July 2015

nordsavage wrote: »

They won't balance CP for a long time because CP grinding is crowns bought and spent on Exp scroll and etc. The simple answer is to cap it at a few hundred of each section. If people grinded more than that my million or so gold in horses and stables and my hundreds in spoiled pepper (was supposed to sell for replacement value but didn't) is proof enough that they don't care to take what you earned and invested in.

With exp pots being so cheap (only 4k or less on the north american server) people are not going to waste money on exp scrolls. Also for more efficient grinders you dont want to have 2 hours at a certain grindspot as you may run into other people coming into your area. This means that people want a shorter pot so that they can move to a new spot whenever one gets too full without wasting real money. Also Zos is more worried about balancing the game. I understand that if you put 100+ hours into grinding CP you should get something, but it isn't them trying to spite you its the devs trying to fix or make the game better.

WyldfireWyrm · July 2015

Easy. Put a cap on it for each character. No more than 200ish points.

Anorak · July 2015

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

Easy. Put a cap on it for each character. No more than 200ish points.

You would need to allow a cap of at least 360 points otherwise the 120 point passives wouldn't even need to exist and if they did this I think a cap of 600 might be the best, but again they would have to make changes to the rate at which CP is earned.

Vizier · July 2015

Anorak wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

There's really nothing wrong with champion points. Diminishing return. Easy to gain them and VR going away sometime in the future. The CP system is designed to exist without VR. The problem isn't with CP, it's that we still have VR.

Sad truth is those playing high level characters gain xp and CP easier and faster though so that IMO should be fixed to up the gains of lower level toons. PVE CP gains are pretty fast though. The xp is faster their than in PvP so I guess it's a trade off.

The problem is that even with the CP system in effect alone you still have people with 400 CP next to people with 100 or less CP. Even in Pve this is an issue as I have seen first hand that I am unable to continuously spam certain abilities with 150 CP and it has lowered my dps by over 5k! This is a big issue as in a trial going for top leaderboard positions any advantage matters. Also you mentioned diminishing return which only effects passives that you have already invested in. This is another issue as people with 300+ CP spread them out to gain the most value from them. Lastly growing stronger from constant grinding of random npcs should not be how your endgame progression works.

Less QQ More Grind...(look I don't mean to be flip, but this constant QQ by the vast minority gets old.)

Either there is a continuous progression system or there is not. I prefer there is. It kind of defeats the purpose if CP "REALLY" doesn't make at least some perceptible difference. The system is such that IF you play you will get CP and you can "spread" it around too and catch up to a comparable level without the need for as many points as they have to do it.

Peeps just need to play, quest, grind pvp, whatever. If it's such an issue Grind away. It's truly the most balanced aspect of the game IMO. Everyone has the EXACT same access to do it and can apply CP regardless of class. Whether or not they do I suppose is up to them. I know it's easier for folks to come in here and create an issue of but really they should just play and generate the CP they want.

Anorak · July 2015

Vizier wrote: »

Anorak wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

There's really nothing wrong with champion points. Diminishing return. Easy to gain them and VR going away sometime in the future. The CP system is designed to exist without VR. The problem isn't with CP, it's that we still have VR.

Sad truth is those playing high level characters gain xp and CP easier and faster though so that IMO should be fixed to up the gains of lower level toons. PVE CP gains are pretty fast though. The xp is faster their than in PvP so I guess it's a trade off.

The problem is that even with the CP system in effect alone you still have people with 400 CP next to people with 100 or less CP. Even in Pve this is an issue as I have seen first hand that I am unable to continuously spam certain abilities with 150 CP and it has lowered my dps by over 5k! This is a big issue as in a trial going for top leaderboard positions any advantage matters. Also you mentioned diminishing return which only effects passives that you have already invested in. This is another issue as people with 300+ CP spread them out to gain the most value from them. Lastly growing stronger from constant grinding of random npcs should not be how your endgame progression works.

Less QQ More Grind...(look I don't mean to be flip, but this constant QQ by the vast minority gets old.)

Either there is a continuous progression system or there is not. I prefer there is. It kind of defeats the purpose if CP "REALLY" doesn't make at least some perceptible difference. The system is such that IF you play you will get CP and you can "spread" it around too and catch up to a comparable level without the need for as many points as they have to do it.

Peeps just need to play, quest, grind pvp, whatever. If it's such an issue Grind away. It's truly the most balanced aspect of the game IMO. Everyone has the EXACT same access to do it and can apply CP regardless of class. Whether or not they do I suppose is up to them. I know it's easier for folks to come in here and create an issue of but really they should just play and generate the CP they want.

You are saying that people should spend hundreds of hours after gear progression just to qualify for the ability be competitive. That is wrong. You should not need to spend a ton of time just to get on the same level then have to learn and advance to become better. I enjoy the CP system but it should not be that i am out classed by someone who spent more time grinding. I do my daily pledges, writs, and then train other people in vet dungeons adding up to 2- 5 vet dungeon runs a day + 2 or 3 completed trials a week and I have only gained 5 or so extra CP after I was unenlightened. Now I could have grinded for 3 hours and gotten the same benefit? That is the issue because if I dedicate my time to actual content I should be better than someone who plays alone for ten hours killing the same pack of mobs.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · July 2015

I'm personally leaning in the direction of stat squish.

1. Reduce the number of points across the board.
2. Make each point count for a full percentage.
3. Have the bonuses top at at 12% - 15% as opposed to 25%.
4. Or, they could just bring back soft caps and Champion Points would take care of themselves (I think).

Please take the above with a ton of sodium chloride. I'm just an humble layman with a nasty habit of giving my opinion BEFORE I've done my homework.