Why do people think ZOS are lazy?

NephilimHero · July 2015

They recently patched an exploit bug on xbox, unsure about PC. IC is just around the corner and Orsinium will be out just after. I just seems to people think they're are some infinitely large mega corporation and or are jumping on the hate bandwagon. I've never known a community demand so from the Devs. The game is the game, if you like it play it if not then calm down.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · July 2015

I think for many players 'lazy' does not connate that zeni employees don't do anything all day. Rather the desicion making process, for example zero stam regain while blocking, could be viewed as lazy implementation to elminate permablocking. Or having siphoning strikes have a 10s duration while other similar buffs across class/weapon lines have a longer duration. Its that haphazardness which, I think, cause people to use the term 'lazy'.

I don't fully agree with this sentiment but its what I think when I see the term lazy being thrown around.

ghostwise · July 2015

Because this is the internet.....

NephilimHero · July 2015

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

I think for many players 'lazy' does not connate that zeni employees don't do anything all day. Rather the desicion making process, for example zero stam regain while blocking, could be viewed as lazy implementation to elminate permablocking. Or having siphoning strikes have a 10s duration while other similar buffs across class/weapon lines have a longer duration. Its that haphazardness which, I think, cause people to use the term 'lazy'.

I don't fully agree with this sentiment but its what I think when I see the term lazy being thrown around.

That sounds more like people disagree with the choices the Devs make that doesn't necessarily make them the wrong ones, take permablocking for instance it think that it's a pretty cheesy move and that taking out the regeneration just forces them to try a bit more

demendred · July 2015

Well, they do hire migrant workers to run the servers.

Sithisvoid · July 2015

They took 15$ a month from pc players how long and delivered nothing? 15 x millions = over 15 million per MONTH and they couldn't do something? No matter how often a corporation lies and says it's not 15 millions is a lot of money.

CapnPhoton · July 2015

NephilimHero wrote: »

They recently patched an exploit bug on xbox, unsure about PC. IC is just around the corner and Orsinium will be out just after. I just seems to people think they're are some infinitely large mega corporation and or are jumping on the hate bandwagon. I've never known a community demand so from the Devs. The game is the game, if you like it play it if not then calm down.

I read an article a few weeks ago that said that people who have either been playing video games for a long time (multiple gens) or are older (35+) generally do not complain as often, and when they do, it is done more constructively via discussions, instead of mostly wining and rude comments. But those with less experience and/or younger have the least satisfaction and additionally the least constructive conversations about it. I wonder if its true. I tried to search again the article but I can't find it.

MCMancub · July 2015

Sithisvoid wrote: »

They took 15$ a month from pc players how long and delivered nothing? 15 x millions = over 15 million per MONTH and they couldn't do something? No matter how often a corporation lies and says it's not 15 millions is a lot of money.

HAHAHAHA you think ESO had a million players during subscription? That's hilarious. Try a very small fraction of that. They would have never went B2P if the subscription model was succeeding, but instead it fell flat on its face.

Kleptobrainiac · July 2015

Generally speaking, the people who say such things haven't had much experience doing the specific things they are requesting. Using the word lazy is a trigger word designed to insult & motivate and is usually used incorrectly by sociopaths this way. Oddly, the sociopath is usually so consumed with themselves that they rarely realize the transparency of this motivation.

Gidorick · July 2015

I think of it as taking the easiest route. Good example:

To add a barber shop they could add buildings and NPCs to check out new hair, change hair and accessories, add other Facesculptor NPCs to allow your to change your appearance

Or.... they could just add a "return to character creation" useable item in the Crown Store.

The second option would be seen as the "lazy" way to add those features to ESO.

SIN-X · July 2015

Sithisvoid wrote: »

They took 15$ a month from pc players how long and delivered nothing? 15 x millions = over 15 million per MONTH and they couldn't do something? No matter how often a corporation lies and says it's not 15 millions is a lot of money.

HA !!!

Elsonso · July 2015

NephilimHero wrote: »

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

I think for many players 'lazy' does not connate that zeni employees don't do anything all day. Rather the desicion making process, for example zero stam regain while blocking, could be viewed as lazy implementation to elminate permablocking. Or having siphoning strikes have a 10s duration while other similar buffs across class/weapon lines have a longer duration. Its that haphazardness which, I think, cause people to use the term 'lazy'.

I don't fully agree with this sentiment but its what I think when I see the term lazy being thrown around.

That sounds more like people disagree with the choices the Devs make that doesn't necessarily make them the wrong ones, take permablocking for instance it think that it's a pretty cheesy move and that taking out the regeneration just forces them to try a bit more

This is where lazy design comes into play. I have to assume that the problem is that the stamina regeneration rate vs the cost to block and maintain that block is such that it allows some players to keep the block up for an extreme amount of time. By cutting stamina regeneration to zero, they make it so that the limitation to blocking is the available stamina pool. This is a viable solution, but I consider this to be "lazy" in the sense that it is broad in the impact. In this case, they should have tuned blocking so that the longer it is held the more stamina it costs and kept in mind the max stamina and stamina regeneration values active on the Live server. In this manner, no player would be able to permanently block because they would run out of stamina. Meanwhile, the players who use stamina to block for short durations would not suffer an effective increase in the cost of block.

If the problem is that blocking is too cheap for some players and that by limiting it to the existing stamina pool they can effectively make stamina more expensive, they could have reduced the buffs that reduce the cost of blocking. If they wanted to make high end player spend more, they could have adjusted the Champion System passives. There are a number of ways to make blocking more expensive and target the players that they want to target.

Kleptobrainiac wrote: »

Using the word lazy is a trigger word designed to insult & motivate and is usually used incorrectly by sociopaths this way. Oddly, the sociopath is usually so consumed with themselves that they rarely realize the transparency of this motivation.

Actually, not always true, but kudos for framing it so that anyone who disagrees with you is an ignorant self-centered sociopath.

NephilimHero · July 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

I think if it as taking the easiest route. Good example:

To add a barber shop they could add buildings and NPCs to check out new hair, change hair and accessories, add other Facesculptor NPCs to allow your to change your appearance

Or.... they could just add a "return to character creation" useable item in the Crown Store.

The second option would be seen as the "lazy" way to add those features to ESO.

When have they taken the easy route though. Your example is one that hasn't happened yet.

NephilimHero · July 2015

Sithisvoid wrote: »

They took 15$ a month from pc players how long and delivered nothing? 15 x millions = over 15 million per MONTH and they couldn't do something? No matter how often a corporation lies and says it's not 15 millions is a lot of money.

They weren't making anywhere near that and server maintenance is huge in cost just on its own.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · July 2015

When have the taken the easy route? The introduction of veteran ranks during beta. The global nerf of vr content in 1.3(or 1.2) that trivialized much of the caldwell content. Orignally completing cadwell's gold you recieved a level 50 necklace.... when you were already vr7 or higher.

Kleptobrainiac · July 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Kleptobrainiac wrote: »

Using the word lazy is a trigger word designed to insult & motivate and is usually used incorrectly by sociopaths this way. Oddly, the sociopath is usually so consumed with themselves that they rarely realize the transparency of this motivation.

Actually, not always true, but kudos for framing it so that anyone who disagrees with you is an ignorant self-centered sociopath.

Firstly, I did say generally & usually ( only a Sith deals in absolutes ).

And secondly, I only know this because I am a sociopath

.

theforgottenking1779 · July 2015

Just look at how they hardly respond to anything that's why i think they are lazy they only respond on the forums to things that have to do with issues on the game they never reply back to peoples suggestions or any kinda of post like this and the fact eso doesn't have a text chat on console i mean come on it's one of the simplest things to put in the game yet they haven't it's probably cause they are to lazy to want to monitor it for reports and such so they just made area chat to let everyone be able to get away with everything basically i bet no one will get banned for cusing someone out on area chat they just don't give a flying poop stick about nothing except creating crap to sell us and answering questions that are only convenient to them this is just among some of the reasons

Sausage · July 2015

Its normal to get bored but its game fault if its encourages still to log in daily or weekly. I think Zen is doing excellent job especially if expansion is under development too.

Zershar_Vemod · July 2015

OP must not have known about all the Soon(tm) we've gotten for a year.

NephilimHero · July 2015

theforgottenking1779 wrote: »

Just look at how they hardly respond to anything that's why i think they are lazy they only respond on the forums to things that have to do with issues on the game they never reply back to peoples suggestions or any kinda of post like this and the fact eso doesn't have a text chat on console i mean come on it's one of the simplest things to put in the game yet they haven't it's probably cause they are to lazy to want to monitor it for reports and such so they just made area chat to let everyone be able to get away with everything basically i bet no one will get banned for cusing someone out on area chat they just don't give a flying poop stick about nothing except creating crap to sell us and answering questions that are only convenient to them this is just among some of the reasons

I don't know about PS4 but all xboxs come with a microphone. Voice chat to me seems like the smart chioce it's easier, more social and quicker. Text chat is a bit obsolete when you can just speak to someone.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · July 2015

Every IT company gets bad reviews because people don't understand that technology is complex and the most mundane error can trigger massive outages. Also every company that sells 1 time services instead of continuing services also gets better reviews.

Examples:

1) I buy a couch. I rip the couch 3 months after I buy it. I don't complain because it's a couch. I certainly don't ask for my money back or a free couch, or a table for my troubles.
2) I buy a video game. I do something that causes a glitch. It may or may not be an easy fix. If it is, it will still take weeks to develop and release a patch. I angrily stew over this issue for a month. Now I write angry emails and forum posts because despite having no working knowledge of how to fix the issue, I bought the game and want it to work!
3) I buy phone service. A gopher eats my ground copper. I call a person at a desk to complain. That person then writes the service order. That service order gets sent into the local exchange carrier for testing. After testing they determine a tech must be dispatched. First available tech is 2 days from now, because gophers are jerks and it's snowing. Tech arrives 3 days after the problem. Your business just lost money for 3 days because of a gopher. You pick up the phone and call the person at the desk telling them how horrible of an experience it was and that you're going to cancel everything because their company stinks. Even though the problem was totally unpreventable.

These 3 escalating examples show you why people say some companies stink. Example 1 was a one time thing for a residential customer. No one in their right mind would crap on the company who sold them their couch when they ripped it. Example 2 is a continuing service targeted at residential customers which will result in a wide variety of responses depending on the maturity level of the complainer. Example 3 is a continuing service sold to businesses. People lose their minds when they are losing real life money.

Hope this clears it up for you. And yes, I work for a phone company and this is a very realistic scenario.

Divinius · July 2015

NephilimHero wrote: »

When have they taken the easy route though.

I might cite THE ENTIRE UI as an example...

amgame308_ESO · July 2015

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Every IT company gets bad reviews because people don't understand that technology is complex and the most mundane error can trigger massive outages. Also every company that sells 1 time services instead of continuing services also gets better reviews.

Examples:

1) I buy a couch. I rip the couch 3 months after I buy it. I don't complain because it's a couch. I certainly don't ask for my money back or a free couch, or a table for my troubles.
2) I buy a video game. I do something that causes a glitch. It may or may not be an easy fix. If it is, it will still take weeks to develop and release a patch. I angrily stew over this issue for a month. Now I write angry emails and forum posts because despite having no working knowledge of how to fix the issue, I bought the game and want it to work!
3) I buy phone service. A gopher eats my ground copper. I call a person at a desk to complain. That person then writes the service order. That service order gets sent into the local exchange carrier for testing. After testing they determine a tech must be dispatched. First available tech is 2 days from now, because gophers are jerks and it's snowing. Tech arrives 3 days after the problem. Your business just lost money for 3 days because of a gopher. You pick up the phone and call the person at the desk telling them how horrible of an experience it was and that you're going to cancel everything because their company stinks. Even though the problem was totally unpreventable.

These 3 escalating examples show you why people say some companies stink. Example 1 was a one time thing for a residential customer. No one in their right mind would crap on the company who sold them their couch when they ripped it. Example 2 is a continuing service targeted at residential customers which will result in a wide variety of responses depending on the maturity level of the complainer. Example 3 is a continuing service sold to businesses. People lose their minds when they are losing real life money.

Hope this clears it up for you. And yes, I work for a phone company and this is a very realistic scenario.

Spoken like fellow member of the real working world.

Talk is cheap, software development is not.

jeanbulinckxub17_ESO · July 2015

demendred wrote: »

Well, they do hire migrant workers to run the servers.

Some migrants works better than some natives

CapnPhoton · July 2015

Kleptobrainiac wrote: »

Generally speaking, the people who say such things haven't had much experience doing the specific things they are requesting. Using the word lazy is a trigger word designed to insult & motivate and is usually used incorrectly by sociopaths this way. Oddly, the sociopath is usually so consumed with themselves that they rarely realize the transparency of this motivation.

Did you read the same article I did?

It said stuff like that when it described the younger gamer.

People rely on technology, but those that know the least about how it works often complain the most when it doesn't.

demendred · July 2015

jeanbulinckxub17_ESO wrote: »

demendred wrote: »

Well, they do hire migrant workers to run the servers.

Some migrants works better than some natives

Yea, I'm sure they do.
/sarcasim

Also, happy birthday Geddy Lee!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=auLBLk4ibAk

theforgottenking1779 · July 2015

NephilimHero wrote: »

theforgottenking1779 wrote: »

Just look at how they hardly respond to anything that's why i think they are lazy they only respond on the forums to things that have to do with issues on the game they never reply back to peoples suggestions or any kinda of post like this and the fact eso doesn't have a text chat on console i mean come on it's one of the simplest things to put in the game yet they haven't it's probably cause they are to lazy to want to monitor it for reports and such so they just made area chat to let everyone be able to get away with everything basically i bet no one will get banned for cusing someone out on area chat they just don't give a flying poop stick about nothing except creating crap to sell us and answering questions that are only convenient to them this is just among some of the reasons

I don't know about PS4 but all xboxs come with a microphone. Voice chat to me seems like the smart chioce it's easier, more social and quicker. Text chat is a bit obsolete when you can just speak to someone.

Reach vr 14 and then tell me this you can't do nothing after vr 14 can't play dungeons cause the group finde sucks balls and you can't even communicate through text chat to assemble your own group for dungeons basically this game is useless after vr 14 on console and voice chat you can't get a group together either most ppl dont even have there mics on and even if they do they aint interested so your basically screwed

Psychobunni · July 2015

NephilimHero wrote: »

They recently patched an exploit bug on xbox, unsure about PC. IC is just around the corner and Orsinium will be out just after. I just seems to people think they're are some infinitely large mega corporation and or are jumping on the hate bandwagon. I've never known a community demand so from the Devs. The game is the game, if you like it play it if not then calm down.

Because when you aren't a *new* console player and you have been here since PC launch and some of the exact same bugs are STILL here all this time later, its more than frustrating.

Or maybe you were one of the ones who said the CP system is going to make things even more unbalanced, that people who could grind all day will have an unfair advantage over those who play normal. All of this BEFORE implementation. (and were called chicken little) .......and now skills/regen are getting nerfed because of high CP players in PVP, crapping on PVE and still hurting those with less CP, and only now is ZOS saying "well we need to look at catch up mechanics"....AFTER it broke many things....just like people said it would.

Maybe it's the frustration of having exploits deleted on the forum when people are trying to get ZOS to fix them, meanwhile they are being blared all over any other source and 75% of the player population can 1-2 shot others.

TLDR: The grass is always greener on the other side, hang out a year and see just how green it is

Psychobunni · July 2015

Also, contrary to that little skeever dung line people use about "happy players don't complain"...for the "most" part, players that complain care MORE about the game than the silent ones.

It's those that don't care if the game can reach its potential that just trash it and move on.

DenMoria · July 2015

I agree with the OP, but, still, the game has been out for 2+ years now and, if I'm understanding the PC crossers, the same issues are still around that have always been and that there was a bunch of stuff that ZOS left out that really should have been there.

I don't know. I think ESO's a pretty good game, but, then again, I'm not an MMOer so I really can't judge.

Maybe those of us on console should stop judging what is basically the first console MMO for ES that has been PC for years now and give ZOS a break. Who knows.

Pman85 · July 2015

I dont think they are lazy as much as they are understaffed. Some of us are used to games with quick updates to fix things and blah blah blah, but it eats at our souls when there is multiple game-breaking exploits that have yet to be fixed. I think we just come from a place that has the man power to littleraly fix something within 24 hours