Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »Sounds like you need a single player RPG. There are other players of every personality type in an MMO, and everyone has to deal with them, not just you.
Instanced personal dungeons/delves will never happen. The servers can only barely handle the load as it is, and you want to add 300,000 individual instances to that load?
^That.Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »Sounds like you need a single player RPG. There are other players of every personality type in an MMO, and everyone has to deal with them, not just you.
ESO is not, and was not meant to be, Skyrim 2, Skyrim Online, or Skyrim With Friends.
Instanced personal dungeons/delves will never happen. The servers can only barely handle the load as it is, and you want to add 300,000 individual instances to that load?
Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
I have issue with forced grouping for no reason such as Craglorn where the group requirement is totally artificial.
But actual group content I have no problem with because that is the primary point of MMOs. I am aware the modern gamer expects to be able to play solo to max level, and so be it. But actual group content is exactly that - none of the real group content actually requires a full group, it is merely designed for it (again, take note Craglorn - design for a group is fine, artificial requirement is BS), so you are not forced to do it with 4 and indeed it all can be done without 4.
If you wish to play alone or with very few for any reason, you can but it means not being able to do some content and that is just a fact of MMO life.
It's awfully funny that Everquest was pretty much about grouping, and look now it's still going after 16 years. 16 YEARS!!!!!
I played EQ and had lots of fun with my groups. People back then could works as a team. People today can't handle stuff like that.
ESO IS A MMO PEOPLE. At some point you will have to group. Get over it or go play skyrim.
The solution is so simple. Have forced group dungeons scale to the amount of people entering. Have Craglorn scale to the amount of people playing it. I'm not the only one saying this.
Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Did anybody actually read the OP before spouting off the usual "go play Skyrim" nonsense?
OP is not asking for grouping to be removed from the game. He is not asking for ESO to be turned into a single player game like Skyrim. He is only asking for some consideration to be made toward players who prefer to play solo at least some of the time.
I've read every single dumb post made in this thread and every other thread on this subject because I believe the grouping problem is ESO's most tragic flaw, and it's worth arguing for a solution. Consider the OP's suggestion:The solution is so simple. Have forced group dungeons scale to the amount of people entering. Have Craglorn scale to the amount of people playing it. I'm not the only one saying this.
That's a great idea, and many of us have been asking for this scheme since ESO launched. Why can't we have this simple concession? What's the big deal? It would make the endgame SO much more enjoyable for thousands of players. What's the problem? What does it cost you? Groupers will still be able to play the game the way they always do... why do YOU care if solo players have fun, too?
It's awfully funny that Everquest was pretty much about grouping, and look now it's still going after 16 years. 16 YEARS!!!!!
I played EQ and had lots of fun with my groups. People back then could works as a team. People today can't handle stuff like that.
ESO IS A MMO PEOPLE. At some point you will have to group. Get over it or go play skyrim.
It's awfully funny that Everquest was pretty much about grouping, and look now it's still going after 16 years. 16 YEARS!!!!!
I played EQ and had lots of fun with my groups. People back then could works as a team. People today can't handle stuff like that.
ESO IS A MMO PEOPLE. At some point you will have to group. Get over it or go play skyrim.
The reason EQ is still going is that they made all classes soloable and introduced mercenaries.
I'm all for grouping being a feature of MMOs, but it should be optional and not forced. Games need to cater for all playstyles to compete in an overcrowded marketplace. When EQ launched it was pretty much the only one of its kind, being quite different from UO, and with other MMOs like AC and DAoC following on from it. In those days grouping was the dominant playstyle because of the way the games were structured, and people had the time to devote to that playstyle which they tend not to have so much today so that catering for duos and soloers makes a lot of sense while keeping the groupers happy too. I have no wish to impose my playstyle on others, but I also have no wish for them to impose their playstyle on me. Provide options, that's the key to a popular and successful game. It should be possible on that basis to level through a game with any preferred playstyle, especially with all the "play your way" marketing hype that gets pushed at us these days.
What? Seriously, what? How in the world are you coming to this conclusion? I've met quite a few people in-game with social anxiety issues, and without exception their attitude has been completely different from what you describe here. All of the ones that I've chatted with have simply avoided doing any group content with anyone who they don't know - which generally means that they don't do any of that content except with guildies who they feel comfortable will be OK with taking them through it. Not sure exactly what you mean by "people with vapid personalities" but as far as those with "attitude problems" go, I've seen a few folks who refused to play nice with other members of a group get warned and either shape up or get kicked from the group for it, so in my experience they don't get "to be lazy" as you say either.The issue is when grouping is forced. It's playing up to people with vapid personalities, serious social anxiety issues, and attitude problems that would mar the mental health of those they group with. Whenever forced grouping is present, it makes it a right for them to have people with them, and they see it as a privilege for others to solo. It allows them to be lazy.
It still is, because you can always choose who you're grouped with. You end up with someone who's a problem in one way or another, and you can kick them or drop the group. When people realize this (which hopefully wouldn't take people that long to grasp) they should learn to be up front about these things and work on getting groups that can work with them. I know a few people in-game who are always very upfront about the difficulties they have in group content due to various conditions that they have, and thanks to being upfront about it we've had some good (and fun) group dungeon runs - if they weren't as upfront about it, then I'm sure it would have gone much more poorly.In a game with optional grouping, it would be up to them to find people who are willing to tolerate them, those who know what they're getting into.
What? That makes no sense because, again, you can always choose not to group with a particular person if you have issues with them. Why would anyone resent ZOS for having a bad experience with a particular player?The thing is is that others will only end up resenting them, and not wanting to group. Then they'll end up resenting ZOS for actually having forced this pathos upon them instead of being able to go into it informed.
As has already been said in this thread, it may not be at all about being intolerant. Some people have limited gaming time and are hoping to get a particular dungeon or whatever done in a particular amount of time. If they'd rather not be in a group with you because of that, it doesn't make them intolerant - it just makes them short on time.If all grouping was optional rather than forced, anyone with issues would have to be up front about any disabilities they have before grouping, which will lead to a more sympathetic grouping environment. I'm autistic, I can freeze in stressful situations, I mention this every time I group with people. I've found that a good amount of those I've grouped with are understanding, but some would rather not have me there. If they don't want me there, that's okay, I'd rather not be around intolerant people.
ZOS isn't discriminating against you. For one reason or another everyone sometimes has trouble finding a group, and while some of the content can't be done solo, the vast vast majority of content can. You don't have to do all content in the game, and if there's some content that sometimes you can't end up doing, but other times you can get a group together to do it, that's not discrimination.Sometimes, however, I can't find a group because I'm upfront. So I can't play the content solo. This makes me and people like me resent ZOS and other developers for discrimination.
This is more of the same fallacy. Nobody can force someone else to group with them. You can randomly end up in a group with someone who may have issues, but it's always up to you whether you're OK with staying in that group, or with the other person staying in that group. Nobody is ever forced to group with any particular other person.The players aren't the ones creating these unhealthy environments, the developers are. And sure, there are those who won't be perspicacious enough to understand why this is a raw deal. They'll love forcing others to group with them despite their own problems, and that'll result in a miserable environment for everyone. This is why more and more MMOs just don't bother with forced grouping. Look at the latest Final Fantasy MMO and how it's changed its tune since the first Final Fantasy MMO.
No, you're really not, because it doesn't work that way.With forced grouping, you're telling people that they can force others to group with them and they can be lazy and have ZOS fix all their problems for them.
Again, if people don't want to group with you it may or may not have anything to do with discrimination. Also, most group content (maybe all? There's some group content I haven't tried this with, so I can't say for sure) definitely allows you to enter with fewer than the expected number of people in your group. Before the group dungeons scaled, I soloed a few of them that I was over-leveled for, and even since scaling I've 2-manned and 3-manned a bunch of them.And if they don't want that, then they may find themselves without a group because of discrimination, and they won't be allowed to just enter a dungeon with just one or two other people. For example: I always have one other person to group with, I sometimes have two. I never have three. So I'm invariably under-equipped for a forced group dungeon. My options are to PUG and tell people about my condition, or to ignore the content.
That would be nice. I'd like to see that too. It wouldn't work well (or at all) with all of the group content, though, because some of the fight mechanics require a certain number of people to complete.I don't think that's ideal.
I think that the ideal would be the dungeon scaling to not just the level of the people entering, but the amount of people entering as well. So if one or two people entered, it would scale the difficulty to one or two people.
It wouldn't mean that at all. Nothing can or would force people to be upfront about stuff like that. If this was introduced it would be the same situation as it is now: the people who have disabilities and other issues could either be upfront about them or not, as they choose.This would mean that those with disabilities would have to be as up front and honest as I am, which would lead to a less toxic community.
Again, nobody can force someone to group with them in this game...It would also mean that if I can't find a third or fourth, I could just go in with two or three people and complete the dungeon. This is fair to people who aren't as socially equipped as extreme extroverted personalities are. Everyone wins. The only people who would be against this are those who have issues and enjoy forcing others to group with them. That's unhealthy.
This is all completely untrue, because if people have such harmful personalities and aren't willing to learn to behave, then everyone else is free not to group with them (or, more likely, stay grouped with them). You can always drop and find other people to group with.It's so unhealthy that it reflects badly upon the game, and it makes the game look like it encourages unhealthy mindsets. So if a person has one of the more notable versions of antisocial personality disorder and they do nothing about it? That's harmful to others, they can still find a group because others will need them to continue. They won't have to learn to behave and stay their antisocial tendencies. It also means that no one would ever be willing to help them.
Again, I'd like to see this for some of the group content, but it wouldn't work for all of it, and there should always be some content that requires a certain number of people to work together as a team. As long as that content isn't required in order to progress, then it's fine, because you don't have to do every single piece of content in the game (for example: if the main quest required you to group to complete it, that would be bad, but having completely optional content that requires a group is fine - it may not be for everyone, but that's OK).Again: The solution is so simple. Have forced group dungeons scale to the amount of people entering. Have Craglorn scale to the amount of people playing it. I'm not the only one saying this.
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