Tanking question

Azalin76 · July 2015

I am wondering about blocking. As a tank are we supposed to block all the time? I thought blocking in this game was just supposed to be for charged attacks? If a tank has to block all the time then maybe they need more armor and spell resist? Or maybe the mobs need to be needed so that tanks can survive better?

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Not sure if this is a troll topic or not....

Anyways, sometimes you have to block all the time, because you are swarmed by mobs. Every one of them will attack at different time. There is no possibility to block attacks separately. Also there are enemies in game that can one shot kill you with their light attack if you are not blocking.

So yeah, blocking, sword and board, is the very essence of tanking, a symbol. Those who deny it are either not playing tanks (they are stam dps build with taunt or just DPS with sword and board) or they are PVP dpses who will do everything to spread misinformation and their aim is to cripple every single tank in game (because thats the only build that cant be one shot killed by them in cyrio and they are just mad at it).

Turelus · July 2015

Right now you might as well block all the time.

After update 7 you will not regenerate stamina while blocking (from regeneration, items/skills will still work) so you will have to be more tactical about your blocking.

AlnilamE · July 2015

Block mitigates damage from all attacks. If you can resist the damage in other ways, go right ahead.

I don't usually have problems surviving when I'm tanking unless I run out of stamina (happens sometimes) or am tanking a V12 instance (my tank is V6).

Mighty_oakk · July 2015

Im no pro but I generally get aggro on 4 or 5 mobs and block, interrupt and cc until a couple die.

Bosses really vary but you can usually figure out the bosses animations pretty quick on when to block

BuggeX · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Not sure if this is a troll topic or not....

Anyways, sometimes you have to block all the time, because you are swarmed by mobs. Every one of them will attack at different time. There is no possibility to block attacks separately. Also there are enemies in game that can one shot kill you with their light attack if you are not blocking.

So yeah, blocking, sword and board, is the very essence of tanking, a symbol. Those who deny it are either not playing tanks (they are stam dps build with taunt or just DPS with sword and board) or they are PVP dpses who will do everything to spread misinformation and their aim is to cripple every single tank in game (because thats the only build that cant be one shot killed by them in cyrio and they are just mad at it).

Witch Mob can onehit you with a light attack?

Azalin76 · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Not sure if this is a troll topic or not....

Anyways, sometimes you have to block all the time, because you are swarmed by mobs. Every one of them will attack at different time. There is no possibility to block attacks separately. Also there are enemies in game that can one shot kill you with their light attack if you are not blocking.

So yeah, blocking, sword and board, is the very essence of tanking, a symbol. Those who deny it are either not playing tanks (they are stam dps build with taunt or just DPS with sword and board) or they are PVP dpses who will do everything to spread misinformation and their aim is to cripple every single tank in game (because thats the only build that cant be one shot killed by them in cyrio and they are just mad at it).

I just started a templar tank/healer and am trying to figure out if it's worth it to really go in to tanking. If mobs can one shot a tank with a light attack then why haven't they been nerfed? Does that also mean they can't be tanked?

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Thats why there is block and block mitigation. So you have to block not only against charged attack but other also. But sometimes its impossible to time your block when you have attacks coming from all sides.

Azalin76 · July 2015

Why do they make so many mobs attack if the tank can't handle it? Should there be more than one tank to correct the problem? Or is it that players just want to rush through the content and try to cheat the system?

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Noone said tanks cant handle it. Its tanks job to handle it. If he cant something is wrong with his tank build (maybe he is trying to be too much DPS and not a tank, its common today, people make stam DPS build and declare themselves a tank just because have sword and board) or they just like you said, are trying to rush trough the content.

Like they pick up too many mobs and suddenly they realise they dont have enough dps to put them down.

Azalin76 · July 2015

I'm only lvl 42 now and when I block it uses up half of my stamina bar. I can't imagine having to block constantly, my stamina would be gone in 3 seconds.

AlnilamE · July 2015

If your stamina is gone after two attacks, you may need help with your build.

What's your class? What armor do you use? Do you have the passives in S+B yet?

My DK is level 34 and she can tank stuff above her level with no issues, and she uses stamina not only for blocking but also for her taunt (she's not actually done enough dungeons to get the magicka taunt.)

asteldian · July 2015

Azalin76 wrote: »

Why do they make so many mobs attack if the tank can't handle it? Should there be more than one tank to correct the problem? Or is it that players just want to rush through the content and try to cheat the system?

There is a reason the game has no aoe taunt. Tanks were not expected to aggro whole packs of mobs, just key dangermen. However, most tanks are old school from old mmos and old habits die hard so we tank entire packs and hide behind our shields.

Aside from trial bosses, no mob is killing you with a light attack, but the tricky part is if you are fighting 7 mobs, trying to time a block for each heavy attack is rather dificult because they are so frequent with that many mobs. Again, that is somewhat of a player made issue due to choosing to be the focus of that many mobs. So, with the changes coming, for some classes it will be near impossible to tank in the style they are used to.

Azalin76 · July 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

If your stamina is gone after two attacks, you may need help with your build.

What's your class? What armor do you use? Do you have the passives in S+B yet?

My DK is level 34 and she can tank stuff above her level with no issues, and she uses stamina not only for blocking but also for her taunt (she's not actually done enough dungeons to get the magicka taunt.)

I'm a magic based templar tank. I have almost no stamina at all. I use 5 light and 2 heavy for armor and have mostly all of the one handed passives. I'm guessing that templar tanks are made to just heal through the damage and not rely on blocking?

AlnilamE · July 2015

You probably need more stamina (or stamina regen). I would recommend a set that stacks stamina. Also, I do like Blazing Shield a lot when tanking (and Rune Focus if I need extra protection). You probably also have access to Immovable by now, which is also an option.

You may want to look into a set that gives you stamina regen or max stamina as a bonus.

Azalin76 · July 2015

If I go stamina then I do no dmg and can't heal. I tried that before on an alt and couldn't survive anything because one heal would use all my mana and then I was dead. I used to have to run past mobs and die like 10 times to finish quests. It was not fun at all for me. I have not had any problems soloing anything so far with my magic build. That's why I'm not sure how I would survive as a tank in pve unless I had a healer following me around every where. There isn't much out there in the form of tanking guides, so it's hard to get started.

AlnilamE · July 2015

Sorry, I didn't mean go all stamina, just a bit more than what you have now.

You don't really need to tank a lot in solo PvE, particularly if you are a Templar and have the biting jabs morph that heals you.

I'm assuming you are playing on one of the Consoles? If you are on PC NA, I'd be happy to help you out with gear.

asteldian · July 2015

Azalin76 wrote: »

If I go stamina then I do no dmg and can't heal. I tried that before on an alt and couldn't survive anything because one heal would use all my mana and then I was dead. I used to have to run past mobs and die like 10 times to finish quests. It was not fun at all for me. I have not had any problems soloing anything so far with my magic build. That's why I'm not sure how I would survive as a tank in pve unless I had a healer following me around every where. There isn't much out there in the form of tanking guides, so it's hard to get started.

Well, for starters, without a healer with you then you don't need to be tanking. A tank is designed to be part of a group and the healer is one of those members.
If you are just talking about soloing, then slot puncturing sweep and just kick the crap out of everything. Have Breath of Life in case its needed.
For actual group tanking, magicka builds work but you should go 5 heavy to gain a big cost reduction in block.

Azalin76 · July 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't mean go all stamina, just a bit more than what you have now.

You don't really need to tank a lot in solo PvE, particularly if you are a Templar and have the biting jabs morph that heals you.

I'm assuming you are playing on one of the Consoles? If you are on PC NA, I'd be happy to help you out with gear.

I am on the ps4, I am currently using 5 seducer and 3 arena to get the extra stats for leveling. If I decide to go full tank at some point I will have to change a few things, I was mainly just curious about how the blocking actually works and if it is really necessary to block all the time. I notice with biting jabs it's impossible to block all the time so that's why I was worried, but I guess in a dungeon most tanks would never use that spell.

UrQuan · July 2015

Depending on your build and the content, sometimes you need to be almost constantly blocking, and sometimes you just need to be ready to block when you see the big attacks coming. If you've got a lot of health and damage shields, and something that mitigates incoming damage you rarely find yourself in a situation where you need to constantly block (even then, though, it does happen). Frankly, with the upcoming changes to blocking, I strongly suggest that tanks start looking at their builds to make sure they can handle not blocking all the time.

Also, I find I permablock more with my DPS characters than with my tanks - but that's because I have a tendency to rush into swarms of mobs and hold down block so that I stay alive while spamming AOE attacks (note: I generally do this in solo PVE content - not so much in group content).

UrQuan · July 2015

Azalin76 wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't mean go all stamina, just a bit more than what you have now.

You don't really need to tank a lot in solo PvE, particularly if you are a Templar and have the biting jabs morph that heals you.

I'm assuming you are playing on one of the Consoles? If you are on PC NA, I'd be happy to help you out with gear.

I am on the ps4, I am currently using 5 seducer and 3 arena to get the extra stats for leveling. If I decide to go full tank at some point I will have to change a few things, I was mainly just curious about how the blocking actually works and if it is really necessary to block all the time. I notice with biting jabs it's impossible to block all the time so that's why I was worried, but I guess in a dungeon most tanks would never use that spell.

Not true - my Templar tank uses it (well, actually the other morph: Punturing Sweep) because there are some fights where you don't really need to tank so much (including a couple where it's basically impossible to tank because the boss has a mechanic that prevents you from holding aggro), and it's more efficient for the tank to be doing halfway decent DPS. In trash mob fights in group dungeons with my Templar tank I usually taunt the mobs with the biggest attacks, and then just spam Puncturing Sweep, intermittently blocking for anything that's going to knock me down.

Sans_Hero · July 2015

I am fairly new to the game and on PS4 as well. Have a Templar tank that does pretty well in solo or group dungeons. Basically I stat almost all health except for 6 points on stam and magicka. (I am lvl 44). I am slotted to level my abilities and still get the job done easily.

The last step of the plan, (in preparation for the update to blocking), is to use the undaunted taunt, shield taunt, Templar bubble and undaunted bubble. This will give me a taunt for either resource and a bubble for either resource. Since damage is not mitigated in a bubble, I can drop the shield and regen stam for 6 seconds at a time and alternate resources for taunts and bubbles. Block when needed. I use the nova blast ultimate and will be switching to sweeping strikes from shield line as well to further mitigate damage. I am at 20k HP currently and should be able to accumulate close to 30k by end game, meaning those bubbles are about 10k a pop. Will tweak it as I go though.

At first it was a bit tough to block due to how little of points I put into stamina. However, once I had the passives unlocked to reduce blocking costs it made a huge difference to where I don't need bubbles to currently do the tanking role and can tank entire groups of mobs while spamming taunts. The sword and board line will make the taunt from that line cost almost nothing, and I have enough mitigation to taunt 8 or 9 mobs before I need to block and get heals for a few, then start re-taunting. You can also get a necklace that can reduce block costs on top of your passives.

Also werewolf helps. That is how I am approaching Templar tanking. It is a dedicated profession it seems. You cannot tank/dps very well like you could dps/heal on a magicka build. Tank needs health and that resource does not translate well to dps. Also, as the tank you are in the best position to shield bash and interrupt, so you can actually make your bash cost close to nothing and still do almost %100 damage. I am a bashing fool.

Hope this helps coming from a self identified noob lol

Tonnopesce · July 2015

From what i read you need to choose ASAP.

Now at "low" level you can do pretty much what you want (i've done all the non vet dungeon with my friend that is a pure dps while i was tanking and healing with light armour, with my nb btw) when you reach the veteran dungeons evrything changes.

Stay in your role a tank don't do dps , a tank don't heal, all you need to do is avoid that the boss goes for the others and in some situation survive to a boss without the healer support.

Go full heavy, s&b is a must have , i reccomend you to have the 2h sword in your second bar ( only to use the rally) equip both the ranged and the melee taunt.
DONT DIE, if you die the whole group will die during a boss battle (a boss light attack can easy one shot a dps, 2 shot the healer).

As a templar you have some advantages for the stamina regen, the armour boost and utilities ( Radiant aura, Restoring focus ,purifing ritual and radiant ward) use the PVP barrier (Replenishing Barrier) as a panic button and the solar prison as your main ultimate.

traigusb14_ESO2 · July 2015

The tutorial and the PVE game really don't train you for good fundamentals.

I tell guildies to go out and fight 1-2 mobs only with light/heavy. This makes them get used to monster timing, blocking regular attacks (not just specials), bashing etc.

Had a little class lol. Everyone came out a much better player.

it is so easy to special spam your way through PVE (pre 50 especially, but new easer VR pretty much too) that people never learn basics then get murdered in dungeons. Blocking isn't just for tanks! Console is suffereing badly now.. because in addition to spamming.. there are so many people nobody up to vet 5 is actually soloing anything lol.

Not spamming specials leads to a slower fight (and finesse XP lol is that still in?) but it is much safer and gets you into good habits and reflexes for dungeons.

Templar speary stab stab is all very fun, but it is probably the worst spell for learning to play with. It generates pretty much all the bad habits all at once... all by itself!

Put it away and never take it out again, you will be a much better player. haha

But yes, block, block all the time unless you have a magicky shield on. Don't glass cannon yourself if you aren';t a tank. take some STA (even if only enchants on armor).. and take some ()^*%$$^*( Health too.

Seriously, go fight 1-2 mobs at your level with nothing but light and heavy attacks. You can do it... probably. You would be surprised about how many things can be blocked (red row on the ground charges . those high damage NB throwing stars... mage bad guy magic staff default attacks!)

Azalin76 · July 2015

Sounds like I would be better off as a dps/healer if I want to be able to heal. I thought that a magic based tank was viable in this game (mainly because of the whole do what you want you can be anything in this game). Guess that's only true to a point, either that or there will be no stamina tanks in the next patch with the nerf to stam regen and maybe the whole system will change.

Aett_Thorn · July 2015

Azalin76 wrote: »

Sounds like I would be better off as a dps/healer if I want to be able to heal. I thought that a magic based tank was viable in this game (mainly because of the whole do what you want you can be anything in this game). Guess that's only true to a point, either that or there will be no stamina tanks in the next patch with the nerf to stam regen and maybe the whole system will change.

You can be a magika-based tank, but if you're going to tank, you need to make sure that you are set up to do that. Templars can make good magika-based tanks, but you're still going to want five pieces of heavy armor and sword-and-shield to do it well. Just use heavy-armor sets that boost magika and magika regen, and make sure that your jewelry is enchanted to reduce spell costs.

Making sure that your blocks costs as little as possible will help you conserve your stamina.

Tonnopesce · July 2015

Azalin76 wrote: »

Sounds like I would be better off as a dps/healer if I want to be able to heal. I thought that a magic based tank was viable in this game (mainly because of the whole do what you want you can be anything in this game). Guess that's only true to a point, either that or there will be no stamina tanks in the next patch with the nerf to stam regen and maybe the whole system will change.

You can be anything it does not mean that you will be good.

Tanks will not change in the next patch, players will change and this is a good thing because tanking in this game is BOOOOORING (i've tanked, healed and done dps tru all the game and in evry istance, tank is the worst role)

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Azalin76 wrote: »

Sounds like I would be better off as a dps/healer if I want to be able to heal. I thought that a magic based tank was viable in this game (mainly because of the whole do what you want you can be anything in this game). Guess that's only true to a point, either that or there will be no stamina tanks in the next patch with the nerf to stam regen and maybe the whole system will change.

You can be anything it does not mean that you will be good.

Tanks will not change in the next patch, players will change and this is a good thing because tanking in this game is BOOOOORING (i've tanked, healed and done dps tru all the game and in evry istance, tank is the worst role)

Tanking is nothing near boring. Actually stripping tanks from their right to have stamina regeneration will make tanking boring after 1.7
Against popular belief, tanks do not only taunt and hold block. They also sprint to run from AOE circles, dodge roll to avoid big AOEs.

They are usually the last one standing when whole group goes down. They are capable of resing people even if attacked by multiple mobs while standing in AOE. They can survive alone long enough to charge an ultimate with high damage shield (leap or magma shell) and bring whole party back to game.

But not anymore. Thanks to ZOS "0 stamina regen while blocking" now every bit of tank stamina will be precious and spent only on blocking attacks.
No more rolling, no more dodging, no more sprinting to save party members who went down.

Only NOW thanks to "0 stamina regen while blocking" nerf, tanking will become boring and not possible for those who are not in the 1% of know every mechanic without looking at boss.

If you think its not true, and you still are a tank then you probably spent last 50 dungeon runs with your special selected group of perfect DPSes and Healers doing your perfect runs and your group chat was full of "FTC report player X on enemy Y DPS OVER 9000!!". And of course when your perfect run didnt go as planned, one dps got killed then everyone on chat started crying "wipe wipe" because its not like, a party can get up in middle of fight and recover from that situation? No, in the perfect world boss dies in 30 seconds and if not whole party suicides to restart.

Try running a 100% pug with people who never been in that dungeon, see how "boring" tanking is.
Against popular belief, tanks do not only taunt and hold block. They also sprint to run from AOE circles, dodge roll to avoid big AOEs.

They are usually the last one standing when whole group goes down. They are capable of resing people even if attacked by multiple mobs while standing in AOE. They can survive alone long enough to charge an ultimate with high damage shield (leap or magma shell) and bring whole party back to game.

But not anymore. Thanks to ZOS "0 stamina regen while blocking" now every bit of tank stamina will be precious and spent only on blocking attacks.
No more rolling, no more dodging, no more sprinting to save party members who went down.

Only NOW thanks to "0 stamina regen while blocking" nerf, tanking will become boring and not possible for those who are not in the 1% of know every mechanic without looking at boss.

If you think its not true, and you still are a tank then you probably spent last 50 dungeon runs with your special selected group of perfect DPSes and Healers doing your perfect runs and your group chat was full of "FTC report player X on enemy Y DPS OVER 9000!!". And of course when your perfect run didnt go as planned, one dps got killed then everyone on chat started crying "wipe wipe" because its not like, a party can get up in middle of fight and recover from that situation? No, in the perfect world boss dies in 30 seconds and if not whole party suicides to restart.

Try running a 100% pug with people who never been in that dungeon, see how "boring" tanking is.

Halfwitte · July 2015

Azalin76 wrote: »

I am wondering about blocking. As a tank are we supposed to block all the time? I thought blocking in this game was just supposed to be for charged attacks? If a tank has to block all the time then maybe they need more armor and spell resist? Or maybe the mobs need to be needed so that tanks can survive better?

Re-roll Healer since tanks are getting the Nerf bat to the incisors next patch and it only requires one button press instead of 2, lucky for you it's still just as boring and OP. Groups will probably start running 2 healers instead of a Tank to make up for the lack of tanks and their SOON(TM) to be lack of usefulness .

Nerf Magicka Regen While Healing
Nerf Perma Healers
No Testing Required

traigusb14_ESO2 · July 2015

Azalin76 wrote: »

Sounds like I would be better off as a dps/healer if I want to be able to heal. I thought that a magic based tank was viable in this game (mainly because of the whole do what you want you can be anything in this game). Guess that's only true to a point, either that or there will be no stamina tanks in the next patch with the nerf to stam regen and maybe the whole system will change.

If you throw in a lot of health you can Bubble Tank (using sheilds).

I have a friend that does it in 5 light 2 heavy. Since shields come before blocking/armor, it can work. She's tanked most of the VR dungeons. She tanks with resto staff in hand and uses that bubble, a bone sheild morph light and heavy armor skills + some other stuff.

It is currently considered a weird build, but was pretty common a while back. When all the shields go down she gets pretty big spike damage, but she has a lot of health (which also makes shields bigger) and they don't stay down long.

Not a build for the faint hearted or someone without a lot of skills and morph knowledge.

Mighty_oakk · July 2015

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

The tutorial and the PVE game really don't train you for good fundamentals.

I tell guildies to go out and fight 1-2 mobs only with light/heavy. This makes them get used to monster timing, blocking regular attacks (not just specials), bashing etc.

Had a little class lol. Everyone came out a much better player.

it is so easy to special spam your way through PVE (pre 50 especially, but new easer VR pretty much too) that people never learn basics then get murdered in dungeons. Blocking isn't just for tanks! Console is suffereing badly now.. because in addition to spamming.. there are so many people nobody up to vet 5 is actually soloing anything lol.

Not spamming specials leads to a slower fight (and finesse XP lol is that still in?) but it is much safer and gets you into good habits and reflexes for dungeons.

Templar speary stab stab is all very fun, but it is probably the worst spell for learning to play with. It generates pretty much all the bad habits all at once... all by itself! Put it away and never take it out again, you will be a much better player. haha

But yes, block, block all the time unless you have a magicky shield on. Don't glass cannon yourself if you aren';t a tank. take some STA (even if only enchants on armor).. and take some ()^*%$$^*( Health too.

Seriously, go fight 1-2 mobs at your level with nothing but light and heavy attacks. You can do it... probably. You would be surprised about how many things can be blocked (red row on the ground charges . those high damage NB throwing stars... mage bad guy magic staff default attacks!)

The fact that its very tough to measure sustained dps on console sucks. I find the dps varies wildly.