Why are players in the Group Finder so terrible?

eliisra · July 2015

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

You had me until Templar Tank. Sorry...

What's wrong with templar tank? In one of my guilds there is templar who does tank, heal and about 10k dps the same time. So usually he just tags along with 3 dps to speedrun the daily vet pledge.

I'm sure it can be done, but I've seen way too many "Tank" Templars (hybrids) face flop because they don't really tank or heal effectively.

I would rather have a Restoration Staff Templar Healer and a true Dragonknight tank.

Reason it face flops is usually dps/players not being good enough it pugs. Lack of coordination, communication and VoiP clearly makes it even harder.

I can heal/tank VR dungeons on templar just fine, if with friends or guildies. But not in a your average pug. They need to much healing, since lower situational awareness and slower reactions. Fights also takes so long, you start running low on resources. They also need the tank to keep a lot more aggro on random stuff.

To much work for one templar heal/tank for sure. It usually ends badly. Some guys just dont get that, they join a pug with some l33t extraordinary speed-run build(like heal/tank) and than rage leave when the group wipes

Kind of the same with resto healers. They also face flop in many pugs, because the group doesn't knows how to position or make it easier for the resto users. Really shaky/inexperienced groups sort of need a templar out-healing their mistakes with max range and preferably a DK tank rooting and aggro'ing every living thing in the room.

Topic: I feel sorry for console players. Group finder never really worked and you guys cant even spam LFM in zone.

Gix · July 2015

This thread is a lie, Group Finder doesn't work...

Oh wait, you're on consoles. You're expecting people to be serious and focused when they're sitting in their living room couch.

Cherryblossom · July 2015

Celestrael wrote: »

This isn't a ZOS issue, it's the players that are freakin terrible.

1) Rarely can you even herd these terribads into a dungeon.
2) They won't join voice chat.
3) They won't play the role they queued in for. Example: I'm a Templar Tank with a Healer off-spec... This noob sorc queued in as our healer but had no heals and had the audacity to say I should do it because im a Templar. I'm supposed to do both our jobs!?!? Gtfo!
4) Players always randomly quit before the dungeon is complete.

Ways to correct this behavior:
1) Automatically teleport players into the dungeon. Don't leave it to a group of morons to figure out how to get into it.
2) Automatically put them in voice chat when joining group. Don't give an option to leave it, if you're in a group you need to communicate. Leave option to mute annoying players in group.
3) Let players in a group vote someone out for not queuing for the proper role. If you get booted for not playing the role you queue for, you can't queue again for it for x number of hours
4) If you quit a dungeon before it is complete, you can't queue again for x amount of time.

Out of the last 5 group Finder groups I've joined, not a single one has been successful. I'm over it.

I'm just really jealous! You found 5 groups!

1) this should be in the game agreed
2) I Play PC
3) Group Kick should be an option, but no to can't queue again as this is open to abuse.
4)No.. People quit for a number of reasons, sometime because the group they are with are bad!

UrQuan · July 2015

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

You had me until Templar Tank. Sorry...

That's ridiculous. Sure, DK is the easiest class for an inexperienced player to tank with, but in the hands of a player who knows what they're doing you can tank very effectively with any class - it just takes a different setup and different techniques with each class.

Lately I've been tanking a lot of vet dungeons with my Templar (I swap gear and skill bars to go between healer, tank, and DPS roles depending on what's needed in a group) with no problems. Well, there was one vet dungeon where we had problems, but that's because in that group our healer was just learning to be a healer (and in the process of leveling the skills), and one of our DPS has a disability that makes it hard for him to remember tactics and keep track of what's going on in fights where there's a lot happening. We still managed to get through it, though, it just took a few tries.

Literally the only thing I find to be a bit of a handicap on my Templar tank compared to my DK tank is a lack of good CC (which leads to me needed to taunt a lot more things than I would on my DK). Once I do enough PVP to get Caltrops, though, that will be solved.

Robbmrp · July 2015

Who's to say those players you haven't encountered are new to dungeon runs? No one is perfect on these the first time they go through them.

They should setup the tool to group based on something like this: V1-V3, V4-V6, V7-V9, V10-V12, V13 & V14. With having closer veteran ranks to group with it would make it easier to group people.

Tan9oSuccka · July 2015

eliisra wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

You had me until Templar Tank. Sorry...

What's wrong with templar tank? In one of my guilds there is templar who does tank, heal and about 10k dps the same time. So usually he just tags along with 3 dps to speedrun the daily vet pledge.

I'm sure it can be done, but I've seen way too many "Tank" Templars (hybrids) face flop because they don't really tank or heal effectively.

I would rather have a Restoration Staff Templar Healer and a true Dragonknight tank.

Reason it face flops is usually dps/players not being good enough it pugs. Lack of coordination, communication and VoiP clearly makes it even harder.

I can heal/tank VR dungeons on templar just fine, if with friends or guildies. But not in a your average pug. They need to much healing, since lower situational awareness and slower reactions. Fights also takes so long, you start running low on resources. They also need the tank to keep a lot more aggro on random stuff.

To much work for one templar heal/tank for sure. It usually ends badly. Some guys just dont get that, they join a pug with some l33t extraordinary speed-run build(like heal/tank) and than rage leave when the group wipes

Kind of the same with resto healers. They also face flop in many pugs, because the group doesn't knows how to position or make it easier for the resto users. Really shaky/inexperienced groups sort of need a templar out-healing their mistakes with max range and preferably a DK tank rooting and aggro'ing every living thing in the room.

Topic: I feel sorry for console players. Group finder never really worked and you guys cant even spam LFM in zone.

That's my take on it. Know your role.

I get that everyone on the forum is MLG Pro Tank Templar. In my experience, hybrids are the guys that point fingers at everyone else for their short comings.

I remember reading a post on here regarding groups before ESO came out on console. The poster said that hybrids are fine for questing, but you will be a liability in group dungeons. The dude was absolutely right.

If your "Healer" is wearing heavy armor, your gonna have a bad time.

Hope499 · July 2015

Celestrael wrote: »

This isn't a ZOS issue, it's the players that are freakin terrible.

1) Rarely can you even herd these terribads into a dungeon.
2) They won't join voice chat.
3) They won't play the role they queued in for. Example: I'm a Templar Tank with a Healer off-spec... This noob sorc queued in as our healer but had no heals and had the audacity to say I should do it because im a Templar. I'm supposed to do both our jobs!?!? Gtfo!
4) Players always randomly quit before the dungeon is complete.

Ways to correct this behavior:
1) Automatically teleport players into the dungeon. Don't leave it to a group of morons to figure out how to get into it.
2) Automatically put them in voice chat when joining group. Don't give an option to leave it, if you're in a group you need to communicate. Leave option to mute annoying players in group.
3) Let players in a group vote someone out for not queuing for the proper role. If you get booted for not playing the role you queue for, you can't queue again for it for x number of hours
4) If you quit a dungeon before it is complete, you can't queue again for x amount of time.

Out of the last 5 group Finder groups I've joined, not a single one has been successful. I'm over it.

Yea, the groupfinder is a terrible and broken system. Kids are bad, wont talk, wont even come to the dungeon....its a waste of time, every time.

UrQuan · July 2015

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

You had me until Templar Tank. Sorry...

What's wrong with templar tank? In one of my guilds there is templar who does tank, heal and about 10k dps the same time. So usually he just tags along with 3 dps to speedrun the daily vet pledge.

I'm sure it can be done, but I've seen way too many "Tank" Templars (hybrids) face flop because they don't really tank or heal effectively.

I would rather have a Restoration Staff Templar Healer and a true Dragonknight tank.

Reason it face flops is usually dps/players not being good enough it pugs. Lack of coordination, communication and VoiP clearly makes it even harder.

I can heal/tank VR dungeons on templar just fine, if with friends or guildies. But not in a your average pug. They need to much healing, since lower situational awareness and slower reactions. Fights also takes so long, you start running low on resources. They also need the tank to keep a lot more aggro on random stuff.

To much work for one templar heal/tank for sure. It usually ends badly. Some guys just dont get that, they join a pug with some l33t extraordinary speed-run build(like heal/tank) and than rage leave when the group wipes

Kind of the same with resto healers. They also face flop in many pugs, because the group doesn't knows how to position or make it easier for the resto users. Really shaky/inexperienced groups sort of need a templar out-healing their mistakes with max range and preferably a DK tank rooting and aggro'ing every living thing in the room.

Topic: I feel sorry for console players. Group finder never really worked and you guys cant even spam LFM in zone.

That's my take on it. Know your role.

I get that everyone on the forum is MLG Pro Tank Templar. In my experience, hybrids are the guys that point fingers at everyone else for their short comings.

I remember reading a post on here regarding groups before ESO came out on console. The poster said that hybrids are fine for questing, but you will be a liability in group dungeons. The dude was absolutely right.

If your "Healer" is wearing heavy armor, your gonna have a bad time.

If your healer is wearing 1-2 pieces of heavy armour, and at least 5 pieces of light you're fine. In fact, it's much better for a healer to wear a heavy chest, medium legs or helmet, and light everything else than for your healer to be wearing all light. It gives your healer more health, magicka, and stamina, while also giving your healer more survivability. That's more important than the extra cost reduction, regen, and spell resistance (which is offset by the higher armour rating anyway) that having those 2 pieces as light armour would give you.

idk · July 2015

Most decent players that still play the game stopped using the poorly designed GF about 12 months ago. Given its extremely poor design it never worked well, often putting two DPS together to wait for a healer and tank to queue up. This made them unavailable for an almost complete group that just needed a single DPS.

The agar was one of the worst system in the game. Even after the fixes it is still sub-par to the games competition.

CapnPhoton · July 2015

Celestrael wrote: »

This isn't a ZOS issue, it's the players that are freakin terrible.

1) Rarely can you even herd these terribads into a dungeon.
2) They won't join voice chat.
3) They won't play the role they queued in for. Example: I'm a Templar Tank with a Healer off-spec... This noob sorc queued in as our healer but had no heals and had the audacity to say I should do it because im a Templar. I'm supposed to do both our jobs!?!? Gtfo!
4) Players always randomly quit before the dungeon is complete.

Ways to correct this behavior:
1) Automatically teleport players into the dungeon. Don't leave it to a group of morons to figure out how to get into it.
2) Automatically put them in voice chat when joining group. Don't give an option to leave it, if you're in a group you need to communicate. Leave option to mute annoying players in group.
3) Let players in a group vote someone out for not queuing for the proper role. If you get booted for not playing the role you queue for, you can't queue again for it for x number of hours
4) If you quit a dungeon before it is complete, you can't queue again for x amount of time.

Out of the last 5 group Finder groups I've joined, not a single one has been successful. I'm over it.

Everybody has a starting point. If they have never been to that place before then they might take a few minutes to navigate around a mountain and up over it or something. A little patience sometimes is a good thing. It builds character. Or people could just take the game way too seriously, and the lesser traveled person may be better off with another, more balanced group. As for voice chat, it would be nice if people join. However, some people avoid it from bad experiences, which is unfortunate. In one group, we all had to listen to this guy asking us to wait occasionally, then hitting his bong several times. But at least we knew why he wasn't very good.

DenMoria · July 2015

Guilds?

Whatever. It's the same.

"You suck"
"You're not good enough"
"Do this. I don't care if it kills you. Do it anyway"
"We're not here for experience, we here for..."
"*s89AF87F0&f*ds(yydfPYA98089D7FA7F80ASF^^(()*(*)(*_" ALL THE TIME

Whatever. I don't want to listen to you and I don't want to listen to your arrogant potty mouth all the time.

What - are all the leaders 12 year olds?

Sheesh

UrQuan · July 2015

DenMoria wrote: »

Guilds?

Whatever. It's the same.

"You suck"
"You're not good enough"
"Do this. I don't care if it kills you. Do it anyway"
"We're not here for experience, we here for..."
"*s89AF87F0&f*ds(yydfPYA98089D7FA7F80ASF^^(()*(*)(*_" ALL THE TIME

Whatever. I don't want to listen to you and I don't want to listen to your arrogant potty mouth all the time.

What - are all the leaders 12 year olds?

Sheesh

Wow. You must have been in some pretty terribad guilds. That hasn't been my experience at all.

Ace_of_Destiny · July 2015

Celestrael wrote: »

This isn't a ZOS issue, it's the players that are freakin terrible.

1) Rarely can you even herd these terribads into a dungeon.
2) They won't join voice chat.
3) They won't play the role they queued in for. Example: I'm a Templar Tank with a Healer off-spec... This noob sorc queued in as our healer but had no heals and had the audacity to say I should do it because im a Templar. I'm supposed to do both our jobs!?!? Gtfo!
4) Players always randomly quit before the dungeon is complete.

Ways to correct this behavior:
1) Automatically teleport players into the dungeon. Don't leave it to a group of morons to figure out how to get into it.
2) Automatically put them in voice chat when joining group. Don't give an option to leave it, if you're in a group you need to communicate. Leave option to mute annoying players in group.
3) Let players in a group vote someone out for not queuing for the proper role. If you get booted for not playing the role you queue for, you can't queue again for it for x number of hours
4) If you quit a dungeon before it is complete, you can't queue again for x amount of time.

Out of the last 5 group Finder groups I've joined, not a single one has been successful. I'm over it.

I think they/we might be so "bad" because we spend more time waiting for a group to form than we ever do actually playing with a group...gotta love the LFG in ESO.

DenMoria · July 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Guilds?

Whatever. It's the same.

"You suck"
"You're not good enough"
"Do this. I don't care if it kills you. Do it anyway"
"We're not here for experience, we here for..."
"*s89AF87F0&f*ds(yydfPYA98089D7FA7F80ASF^^(()*(*)(*_" ALL THE TIME

Whatever. I don't want to listen to you and I don't want to listen to your arrogant potty mouth all the time.

What - are all the leaders 12 year olds?

Sheesh

Wow. You must have been in some pretty terribad guilds. That hasn't been my experience at all.

I have heard that. I suppose, if you belong to some of the larger guilds, there may be controls and rules, but, I have found 1/2 a dozen at least of the smaller ones are just terrible.

I'll have to keep trying though. While I won't do PvP, I am sure there are groups out there that are primo.

As my other 1/2 says - it ain't the dyin' that's the problem, it's the being told you're an idiot because you're not perfect that is.

MangoSsk · July 2015

Mighty_oakk wrote: »

I cant remember the last time a group failed in a non vet dungeon i was in. Seems your just having bad luck. End up 3 manning the daily 1\2 the time.

Veteran Dungeons are for people that know how to play lol you got newbs at lvl 20 that has no clue how to play

djyrb · July 2015

It's the curse of the PUG, IMO, and as others have said - it has been a staple of every online game I've ever played. I suggest to friend people that know what they are doing when you do run with PUGs, and over time you can build groups from your contacts. Sometimes I get bad groups even from randoms in my guilds, and prefer to run with a select few people when I want a gold key.

Once in a while I will join a PUG in zone, and I recommend everyone get some experience with PUGs, especially as a support role such as a healer or tank. It immediately makes the instance "hardmode", and will hone your skills much more effectively than running with skilled players all the time.

MangoSsk · July 2015

LEEEEEEEEEEEEEROOOOOOOOOOOOYYYYYYY JENKINNNNNNNS!

Reeko · July 2015

DenMoria wrote: »

Guilds?

Whatever. It's the same.

"You suck"
"You're not good enough"
"Do this. I don't care if it kills you. Do it anyway"
"We're not here for experience, we here for..."
"*s89AF87F0&f*ds(yydfPYA98089D7FA7F80ASF^^(()*(*)(*_" ALL THE TIME

Whatever. I don't want to listen to you and I don't want to listen to your arrogant potty mouth all the time.

What - are all the leaders 12 year olds?

Sheesh

On PS4? Join our guild! Me and the leader are both mature adults.

DenMoria · July 2015

Reeko wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Guilds?

Whatever. It's the same.

"You suck"
"You're not good enough"
"Do this. I don't care if it kills you. Do it anyway"
"We're not here for experience, we here for..."
"*s89AF87F0&f*ds(yydfPYA98089D7FA7F80ASF^^(()*(*)(*_" ALL THE TIME

Whatever. I don't want to listen to you and I don't want to listen to your arrogant potty mouth all the time.

What - are all the leaders 12 year olds?

Sheesh

On PS4? Join our guild! Me and the leader are both mature adults.

Cool! I'm a total newb @ grouping and lousy with speaking on my headset, but I can listen.

If you want to contact me via my PSN ID I'll be going in tonight with new toons on both NA and EU, so, wherever you are. Female Nightblade Quin'Zel (Imperial) on NA and Echen Varinsa Male Nightblade on EU (Imperial).

reften · July 2015

Good players join guilds, and only run with guildies. People using group finder typically are the anti-social gamers and have terrible builds, don't use TS,

I owe a lot to my good build and effective playstyle to my strong guild, and the good poeple within it.

traigusb14_ESO2 · July 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

You had me until Templar Tank. Sorry...

ies.

Literally the only thing I find to be a bit of a handicap on my Templar tank compared to my DK tank is a lack of good CC (which leads to me needed to taunt a lot more things than I would on my DK). Once I do enough PVP to get Caltrops, though, that will be solved.

I use blazing spear as a start AOE aggro (instead of DK cinders or Caltrops). Also has the advantage of being aimable rather than just being a ground dump. (I usually cast and move into it). Caltrops does have a much larger circle than pretty much anything though. I prefer Blazing spear because it has 3 benefits. I can stun casters with it, DPS can grab extra sta fro blocking or whatever from it, and even though it has base low DPS, it can proc the spear passive on every tic and randomly do a lot of damage.

Plus it uses Magika. I tend to use this and Undaunted taunt, so I can keep them separate from STA pool

FadedJeans · July 2015

MangoSsk wrote: »

LEEEEEEEEEEEEEROOOOOOOOOOOOYYYYYYY JENKINNNNNNNS!

At least I have chicken.

SirAndy · July 2015

OzJohnD wrote: »

you are not likely to succeed with a Veteran level dungeon PUG

I have to disagree with that statement.

I have done many VR dungeons with random people i found in the zone chat and so far not once has it been a complete failure.

Yes, sometimes you'll have to carry a noob through but so what? Everyone was a noob at some point ...

markt84 · July 2015

They just aren't good players. That's why after x-amount of time playing the have to use group finder because they can't find 3 friends to play with.

BaconMagic · July 2015

I'm not sure why the prevailing attitude is that only crappy players with crappier builds use the LFG tool. Seriously there are plenty of reasons, especially on console, to PUG it up. I for one, don't have a large group of Xbox friends nor does my core group even play MMOs. I don't have tons of time to devote to the game to build guild networks of friends, and communication sucks on console with lack of text chat. I use the LFG because I want to play group content without spamming guild or area chats forever, I wanna be placed in a group and play, using LFG I can quest about while waiting. My main is a 45 Stamblade and I can hold my own, and I use voice chat properly to communicate during group content. The argument that anyone should plainly ignore the LFG tool is silly, they should FIX it and add text chat to make grouping easier.

UrQuan · July 2015

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

You had me until Templar Tank. Sorry...

ies.

Literally the only thing I find to be a bit of a handicap on my Templar tank compared to my DK tank is a lack of good CC (which leads to me needed to taunt a lot more things than I would on my DK). Once I do enough PVP to get Caltrops, though, that will be solved.

I use blazing spear as a start AOE aggro (instead of DK cinders or Caltrops). Also has the advantage of being aimable rather than just being a ground dump. (I usually cast and move into it). Caltrops does have a much larger circle than pretty much anything though. I prefer Blazing spear because it has 3 benefits. I can stun casters with it, DPS can grab extra sta fro blocking or whatever from it, and even though it has base low DPS, it can proc the spear passive on every tic and randomly do a lot of damage.

Plus it uses Magika. I tend to use this and Undaunted taunt, so I can keep them separate from STA pool

Interesting. I've recently leveled Blazing Spear to rank IV just by putting it on my training bar (the one that I swap to when turning in quests), but I've barely ever actually used it. Maybe I should start giving it a shot!

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2015

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Not all randoms are bad.

You had me until Templar Tank. Sorry...

You couldn't be further off on that one, sorry...

The best tank I have ever seen is a Templar. No names, but he can be found at the Number 1-2 spot on every single PvE leader board at the moment in NA. Last week I think he was first in everything except VDSA (where he was 2), but he might have moved into first there as well. Obviously, these boards are always changing, but either way, Templars make VERY GOOD (if not the best) tanks.

Gamertaglemieux · July 2015

Celestrael wrote: »

This isn't a ZOS issue, it's the players that are freakin terrible.

1) Rarely can you even herd these terribads into a dungeon.
2) They won't join voice chat.
3) They won't play the role they queued in for. Example: I'm a Templar Tank with a Healer off-spec... This noob sorc queued in as our healer but had no heals and had the audacity to say I should do it because im a Templar. I'm supposed to do both our jobs!?!? Gtfo!
4) Players always randomly quit before the dungeon is complete.

Ways to correct this behavior:
1) Automatically teleport players into the dungeon. Don't leave it to a group of morons to figure out how to get into it.
2) Automatically put them in voice chat when joining group. Don't give an option to leave it, if you're in a group you need to communicate. Leave option to mute annoying players in group.
3) Let players in a group vote someone out for not queuing for the proper role. If you get booted for not playing the role you queue for, you can't queue again for it for x number of hours
4) If you quit a dungeon before it is complete, you can't queue again for x amount of time.

Out of the last 5 group Finder groups I've joined, not a single one has been successful. I'm over it.

Wait?!?

You got Group Finder to work for you?

Or was this after you sat in queue for 3 days?

Muletide · July 2015

I've had mixed results with the Group Finder.

This weekend I got into a great group which we ended up 3 manning a couple regular dungeons (Proper S&B Tank, NB DPS, and my Templar on Heals/ AOE help). We didn't even use any voice chat, everyone knew their roles and knew how to play.

On the other hand....

I got into a Vet COH group where only 3 of 4 players were using the voice chat and the "tank" was just a 2 hander/Werewolf build. The "tank" would jump the gun on every fight not waiting for explanation of boss mechanics. Eventually after several failed boss attempts 2 members rage DC'd.

J2JMC · July 2015

OP is MLG elite. There is no way he could ever be the problem in the group. After all they are all just a bunch of randoms while he is a beast and not a random all.

reften wrote: »

Good players join guilds, and only run with guildies. People using group finder typically are the anti-social gamers and have terrible builds, don't use TS,

I owe a lot to my good build and effective playstyle to my strong guild, and the good poeple within it.

One player feels more comfortable playing games by himself because he can be somewhat shy but will try to not be a hindrance when in groups. The other loves grouping with players he is better than to show off but will flame players if he can't "carry" them. Which one is antisocial?