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Should XP to gain CP increase based on total CP?
bosmern_ESO
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Just a suggestion to help stop the massive gap between players and hopefully stop people wanting to remove CP.
Should the XP between CP be increased based on your total CP? as an Example, the xp it takes to go from CP level 50-51 takes 400k, but XP it takes to go from CP level 1,050-1,051 takes 1m?
Should the XP between CP be increased based on your total CP? as an Example, the xp it takes to go from CP level 50-51 takes 400k, but XP it takes to go from CP level 1,050-1,051 takes 1m?
~Thallen~
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ontheleftcoast✭✭✭✭✭They already have diminishing returns on CP though. Unless you spend it on useless powers for your toon after awhile it takes 3, 4 or more CP points to get what a new toon does for 1 CP point. And you want to make it even slower to level? The Marquis de Sade wants to talk to you about your interesting ideas for rewarding players for effort.
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Tolmos✭✭✭✭I would say yes, as long as the current players who have CP are recalculated based on the new XP values.
BUT, I don't like nerfs. Rather do buffs. I say do a hard scaling of the benefits of CP, starting on the low end. Get the bulk of the 25% return during the first 1500 CP, and remaining 10% over the 1501-3600. Since no one has more than 1500 CP, everyone with CP would get a big buff now and then their gains would taper off towards the end. This would give hardcore grinders/botters a chance to continue to progress past where the common masses would normally get to (in a reasonable time), BUFF the current hardcore players as opposed to nerfing them, and save new players from feeling completely overwhelmed and the need to rush content to not get left behind.
A cap without a cap, basically.
I also prefer this method over, say, a catchup mechanism because there are players whose entire enjoyment is having SOME kind of bonus over other players in the stat department, even if it's tiny. Catchup mechanisms would allow all of us to catch up to those players, whereas scaling would still have new players trailing behind, but not in a noticeable enough way that it would damage their competitive abilities.Edited by Tolmos on July 26, 2015 6:14PM0 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭To be honest, the concept of diminishing returns is actually superior to what you suggest. I don't think ZoS will mess with that just because people don't understand what that means/how it works.Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!2 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why not just turn the whole game server off from midnight until 7 in the evening? Then everybody gets the same five hours to work with.
Because equality will never exist in a game that never rests, and it won't exist no matter how many limiting factors you place. There will always be some sort of divide between Player A and Player Z.signing off1 -
Tolmos✭✭✭✭Why not just turn the whole game server off from midnight until 7 in the evening? Then everybody gets the same five hours to work with.
Because equality will never exist in a game that never rests, and it won't exist no matter how many limiting factors you place. There will always be some sort of divide between Player A and Player Z.
The goal isn't as much about equality as it is about saving the future population of the game. In its current state, CP is EXTREMELY daunting to new players and is a game changer in PvP and competitive PvE (regardless of what some individuals say, the numbers speak for themselves).
It's one thing to have a level cap- level 50. VR 16. These are all tangible, viable cap differences. But CP is this massive beast that could, feasibly, progress infinitely if they increase the cap past 3600 with time (and has no tangible way to identify, since it isn't shown on any player's healthbar or otherwise). The problem is that new players who actually understand how the system works will feel rushed- every moment they are pre-50 is another xp they aren't earning towards the monsterous mountain that is their CP grind. Then, when they do hit higher level, if they truly want to be competitive then they will have to dedicate themselves to proper grinding. Not dungeoning, no PvPing... grinding. Botting, preferably.
The common argument against has been "New players should never expect to be competitive". That's unacceptable. Why would you play an online game and never expect to be competitive? Why should there be an indefinite, no visible end in sight, stat handicap placed upon you simply because of when you started the game? It's not a level cap... it's virtually limitless progression.
Combine all this with the fact that this stat handicap bleeds into low level PvP, where it absolutely should never exist in the first place (thankfully, it appears ZOS agrees and is looking into a fix for that; kudos to them there), and you have the perfect storm to start demotivating new players.
There is no feeling worse than having an MMO you love become stale because the only players in the game are old players, stroking their own egos with their seniority based rewards. As some of them leave the game for greener pastures, the game shrinks and shrinks and all that is left is this husk of what used to be.
I don't want that for ESO.Edited by Tolmos on July 26, 2015 6:05PM0 -
strikeback1247✭✭✭✭✭
✭I suggest just give players with a low CP level permanent enlightenment so they can catch up till a certain point. There might be better ways than that, but I just want a catchup mechanism :PP.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!1 -
Stalwart385✭✭✭✭As others have suggested this would just reiterate diminishing returns as it is now. To let new players actually catch up too 1y+ vets there actually has to be a catch up mechanic, such as a quarterly cap.0
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Tolmos✭✭✭✭Stalwart385 wrote: »As others have suggested this would just reiterate diminishing returns as it is now. To let new players actually catch up too 1y+ vets there actually has to be a catch up mechanic, such as a quarterly cap.
Some of the players with higher CP have reported what the diminishing returns look like, and it appears those need a little tweaking. It's there in name, but the scaling looks pretty flat...0 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem is that new players who actually understand how the system works will feel rushed- every moment they are pre-50 is another xp they aren't earning towards the monsterous mountain that is their CP grind. Then, when they do hit higher level, if they truly want to be competitive then they will have to dedicate themselves to proper grinding. Not dungeoning, no PvPing... grinding. Botting, preferably.
If new players prescribe to that type of slippery slope... maybe they should just put the box back on the shelf and try to be King of the Mountain in a game released this week.
Players with poor attitudes can have 3600 CP for all I care. It won't make them a better player if nobody wants to play with them.
signing off0 -
Paradox✭✭✭✭To be honest, the concept of diminishing returns is actually superior to what you suggest. I don't think ZoS will mess with that just because people don't understand what that means/how it works.
You people talk about diminishing returns all the time... And yet you don't take into account the amount of places that you can slot CP to better utilize it... Nobody is only slotting CP into one area. They are spreading them out for the most efficient increase in their DPS or survivability.
The concept works, after about 1000 CP where you get to it being harder to slot points differently to avoid the diminishing returns, but who the *** is going to want to grind their way to 1000 CP just to he competitive in PvP and PvE? That is an insane amount of CP to grind. It's in NO WAY fair to new players or casual PvPers.
Spout off about your diminishing returns, but realized how far you have to go to realize them and how horrible that road will be for any new player.... But if you don't care about new players, that's fine. Just don't try to hide it.Ebonheart Pact
@iHateReloads
Tank And Spank - DragonKnightI've quit the game until ZoS stops acting like the community are children, and start actually listening to us.0 -
Stalwart385✭✭✭✭Stalwart385 wrote: »As others have suggested this would just reiterate diminishing returns as it is now. To let new players actually catch up too 1y+ vets there actually has to be a catch up mechanic, such as a quarterly cap.
Some of the players with higher CP have reported what the diminishing returns look like, and it appears those need a little tweaking. It's there in name, but the scaling looks pretty flat...
After a certain point it sits at 0.3% then 0.2%, then levels off to 0.1% per cp. That's just what is displayed in the UI though because they only display one decimal point. It could be 0.14% to 0.01% when showing 0.1% (since I don't think they will display 0.0%). Since the diminishing return appear to be in a logarithmic form it will indeed flatten out though. The early part of the graph helps people be on the same level quicker.
All I'm saying though is that instead of altering the xp to gain cp you could just alter the effect per cp curve that is already there. It has the same effect. Still I think most people who complain's concern is the fact that you will never truly catch up. I tend to mostly disagree but I'm willing to compromise.Edited by Stalwart385 on July 26, 2015 6:59PM0 -
Zsymon✭✭✭✭I agree with @strikeback1247, just give low CP players permanent Enlightenment until they've caught up to some specific number of CPs that makes them competitive.0 -
Stalwart385✭✭✭✭To be honest, the concept of diminishing returns is actually superior to what you suggest. I don't think ZoS will mess with that just because people don't understand what that means/how it works.
You people talk about diminishing returns all the time... And yet you don't take into account the amount of places that you can slot CP to better utilize it... Nobody is only slotting CP into one area. They are spreading them out for the most efficient increase in their DPS or survivability.
The concept works, after about 1000 CP where you get to it being harder to slot points differently to avoid the diminishing returns, but who the *** is going to want to grind their way to 1000 CP just to he competitive in PvP and PvE? That is an insane amount of CP to grind. It's in NO WAY fair to new players or casual PvPers.
Spout off about your diminishing returns, but realized how far you have to go to realize them and how horrible that road will be for any new player.... But if you don't care about new players, that's fine. Just don't try to hide it.
It doesn't matter how you spread it. The fact that it has diminishing returns across the board stays the same. Looking at it as 1 passive or 12 the curve is still there. It seems daunting as a new player when you have zero points but once you hit VR14 you have at least 65 (i think more because of enlightenment) and once you hit 90 you have the main passive you need to be competitive. New players looking at 300 cp feel like its impossible, but if you just make your own goals you'll be on par before you know it.
It will take a long time before you can 100% catch up (because vets run out of build worthy passives) but the gap will close quicker than you think. As I've said, if ZoS thinks its a big enough deal to address I think they should just put a monthly/quarterly cap to allow some catch up time for new players.0 -
markt84✭✭✭The problem is that new players who actually understand how the system works will feel rushed- every moment they are pre-50 is another xp they aren't earning towards the monsterous mountain that is their CP grind. Then, when they do hit higher level, if they truly want to be competitive then they will have to dedicate themselves to proper grinding. Not dungeoning, no PvPing... grinding. Botting, preferably.
If new players prescribe to that type of slippery slope... maybe they should just put the box back on the shelf and try to be King of the Mountain in a game released this week.
Players with poor attitudes can have 3600 CP for all I care. It won't make them a better player if nobody wants to play with them.
Why woundn't anyone want to play with them? And the point is that zos doesn't want those new players to "just put the box back on the shelf." And if you like eso, you don't want them to either. People like you are the reason the game will die.Edited by markt84 on July 26, 2015 7:34PM1 -
Tolmos✭✭✭✭
If new players prescribe to that type of slippery slope... maybe they should just put the box back on the shelf and try to be King of the Mountain in a game released this week.
And this is the perfect example of the line of thinking we should never subscribe to, as it would destroy any hope of a future game population.
The idea that someone being upset at a near indefinite stat handicap being placed upon them to stop them from being truly competitive should be considered a bad attitude is the sort of "good old boy" mentality that causes games to fail to keep up on the market.Why woundn't anyone want to play with them? And the point is that zos doesn't want those new players to "just put the box back on the shelf." And if you like eso, you don't want them to either. People like you are the reason the game will die.
This guy gets it.Edited by Tolmos on July 26, 2015 7:50PM0 -
Anzriel✭✭✭✭I agree that there has to be 'some' kind of catch up mechanic, but the problem is to find the best one. Not only does it need to be balanced (not screwing over older players who worked hard), but also needs to let new players if THEY work hard, they can start to catch up. So to me an experience curve seems most appropriate, perhaps with certain cp levels, maybe like every 300, you see a larger jump in xp needed. I don't have exact numbers, but it needs to be balanced between giving newer players hope, but at the same time not handing them 400 cp in no time after veterans have been grinding since they came out. In that respect I don't envy the position the devs are in in balancing solutions.0 -
Tolmos✭✭✭✭I agree that there has to be 'some' kind of catch up mechanic, but the problem is to find the best one. Not only does it need to be balanced (not screwing over older players who worked hard), but also needs to let new players if THEY work hard, they can start to catch up. So to me an experience curve seems most appropriate, perhaps with certain cp levels, maybe like every 300, you see a larger jump in xp needed. I don't have exact numbers, but it needs to be balanced between giving newer players hope, but at the same time not handing them 400 cp in no time after veterans have been grinding since they came out. In that respect I don't envy the position the devs are in in balancing solutions.
Agreed. I'd rather see a bottom heavy scaling than simply giving everyone 400 CP. The folks who grinding those first 400 (or 330 depending on if they were VR14 when CP came out) out are going to feel like crap if that is just handed out willy-nilly.0 -
Mighty_oakk✭✭✭✭✭The reason the xp requirement is static is because of diminishing returns.
As you progress through levels they require more xp but the reward is the same0 -
corwinDA✭CP only matters in pvp no ones going to complain about it in pve. The best and more than likely easiest fix to the cp issue ive seen posted is a CP disabled pvp campaign, if you die you cant blame the bow farmer with over 1k cp its your own fault. People will still complain even in there to be sure because x player just used a bit in the system to get an extra hit or multiple crits on me but it would at least get rid of the cp issue.1
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Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭CP only matters in pvp no ones going to complain about it in pve. The best and more than likely easiest fix to the cp issue ive seen posted is a CP disabled pvp campaign, if you die you cant blame the bow farmer with over 1k cp its your own fault. People will still complain even in there to be sure because x player just used a bit in the system to get an extra hit or multiple crits on me but it would at least get rid of the cp issue.
Competitive PvE end game builds are entirely worked in consideration of CP - not just for PvP.0 -
markt84✭✭✭Why would I deserve to be on the same level as someone who puts more hours into the game than I do? That doesn't make any sense.
Well you are way off if you think hours equal xp. I have more hours played than a vet 14 right now and I'm a vet 3. Grinding equals xp. So why should people get rewarded for grinding over people that play the game? And great in your mind is a joke. You just want to be able to take advantage of a broken system so you can feel like a big man in PvP. And you also think all new players should just put the game back on the shelf if they feel like they want to be competitive when they hit level 10 in PvP. The game CAN NOT SURVIVE without new players, but youre willing to sacrifice the longevity of the game for you to feel like a big man in a video game. Haha I'm the reason the game will never be great. Having 0 balance in PvP doesn't = great, it equals a dead game
[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]Edited by ZOS_Racheal on July 26, 2015 11:37PM1 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Let the grinders have cp. I dont understand how they are able to grind so much and have a normal personality at the same time, but let them have something for their work.PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends0 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd just like to throw my 2 cents in, I have no problem with how the current CP system is. I miss the original Veteran levels how it would take 5m xp to go from V11-V12, I also love how Alliance ranks are fairly hard to get.
I was just throwing this out as a quick suggestion and wanted to see how you (the Community) would react. I'm currently at 250 CP and I know there are people that are starting to get over 700 CP.
I think what ZoS said originally would be the best (you attain your first 400 CP fast, but after you hit 400 it goes back to the normal pace. This would allow all players to be able to gain their 125 CP passive they desire to make them not as far back)~Thallen~0 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People like you are the reason the game will die.
No. I'm the guy who looks at entry level goons wanting to be promoted to supervisor after two weeks.
Did you put in the time? Did you earn it? Is there anything aside from your massive ego and entitlement meriting the promotion?
Nope.
CP gives you a small advantage. A few extra passives. Nothing that can't be balanced with maturity, teamwork, and understanding the core game mechanics. Play the game. Put in the time. And in a few years you'll wonder why you were ever complaining.
Or not. Because you won't even be here. It was too hard. Life is unfair. There aren't enough free handouts and I have to work for EVERYTHING.signing off0
