Recipe for Disaster: Setting themselves up for failure?

Junkogen · July 2015

The word on the street is that ZOS is going to try to release DLC quarterly. Is this a recipe for disaster given how much was projected to be done this year that isn't and how rushed that seems? Or do you guys think that they've actually been planning ahead and have had these DLC in the works all along?

I just worry that they're going to rush the content, bugs and all, and it will just cause all kinds of operational problems, requiring more patches, and pushing back content releases.

Still another possibility is that they don't care if they can keep a schedule. They just say all this stuff to sell copies and don't care about much else.

Gyudan · July 2015

Junkogen wrote: »

Still another possibility is that they don't care if they can keep a schedule. They just say all this stuff to sell copies and don't care about much else.

The previous objective was 4-6 weeks between updates.

Patch cadence is going to be update every 4-6 weeks with weekly patches currently to fix issues and get the service stable.

We all know how it turned out.

WolfgangArmadeus · July 2015

No way to know really, its hard to predict how these proposals will transpire... it seems like a pretty modest strategy to me, so i think they will be able to sustain it quite easily...

It is difficult to sustain console player base without supplying steady dlc though, so it is indeed a "must succeed" situation if they dont want this title to dwindle back into the pc only realm, which, no offense to pc gamers, is not a very lucrative/profitable place to be.

Sausage · July 2015

Go big or go home, I cant see why ESO couldnt make it. ES is insanely popular series in game industry with 15+ year of history, and more ES games is coming. Bethesda/Zen is one of the main developers/publishers. There isnt even competitor in sight yet, I bet 1-2 year more and ESO has crushed all current competitors, even Blizzards Titan was cancelled, the rest simply cant keep up with ESO. I think they are doing right thing, first thing was to add endgame, to give players something to do, like CPs, Craglorns, and the upcoming solo adventure zone, IC, but then I'd start to focus on fixing bugs and glitches.

Junkogen · July 2015

WolfgangArmadeus wrote: »

No way to know really, its hard to predict how these proposals will transpire... it seems like a pretty modest strategy to me, so i think they will be able to sustain it quite easily...

It is difficult to sustain console player base without supplying steady dlc though, so it is indeed a "must succeed" situation if they dont want this title to dwindle back into the pc only realm, which, no offense to pc gamers, is not a very lucrative/profitable place to be.

Perhaps it does seem modest. However, they've been absolutely terrible at keeping schedules. I know people want deadlines, but are they being unrealistic given their track record?

On a side note, I would think PC might be more profitable considering console already has a monthly fee for online play. PC has no such problem. If they made ESO+ more worthwhile, they could probably make a decent amount off the PC folks.

Junkogen · July 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Still another possibility is that they don't care if they can keep a schedule. They just say all this stuff to sell copies and don't care about much else.

The previous objective was 4-6 weeks between updates.

Patch cadence is going to be update every 4-6 weeks with weekly patches currently to fix issues and get the service stable.

We all know how it turned out.

I know. That's why I wonder why they even say this stuff anymore. They have sucked at keeping schedules. Is it better to promise and not deliver or not promise and just let the content come when it's ready?

Rosveen · July 2015

Console players don't have any experience with ZOS history of not sticking to schedules. I'd like to hope it will be a new start for all of us. That said, they did keep their promise of updates every 6 weeks for the better part of last year, regardless of whether you consider the updates substantial enough. It's the 1.6 patch and console launch that made everything fall apart.

Anzriel · July 2015

Only time will ultimately tell, but it would only spell 'doom' if kept doing it to the point that bugs added up to obscene level. Yes I know there are bugs, quiet a few, but I've seen worse sadly. >.> If they're smart and can't keep up with updates while keeping the game playable then hopefully they'd slow them down a bit. 12-16 weeks per dlc depending on their size seems possible though.

Faulgor · July 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Still another possibility is that they don't care if they can keep a schedule. They just say all this stuff to sell copies and don't care about much else.

The previous objective was 4-6 weeks between updates.

Patch cadence is going to be update every 4-6 weeks with weekly patches currently to fix issues and get the service stable.

We all know how it turned out.

You mean great? Because they were on schedule up till Update 6, when they were working on the change to B2P.

Sharee · July 2015

It all depends on how big the updates are going to be.

Take IC or Orsinium, i very much doubt they can pump out something like that every 3 months. Both have been in development for at least a year by now.

However take dark brotherhood DLC - all they need is a bit of art, a new skill line, one quest, and maybe a new dungeon - done.

Wolfshead · July 2015

To be total honest we dont know how much ZoS have been doing behind there close doors the only thing we do know that the have been working since last year QuakeCon (2014) was IC, Orsinium and Dark Brotherhood which is so to complete the justice system that was about what got to know form ZoS last year.

So the can have hade team work only on DLC since then for i dont think the have hade the whole team work on console release beside i think the can pull it off if the have few DLC already done for if can lay 4 to 6 DLC infront there release i think are can do it.

Rosveen · July 2015

Sharee wrote: »

However take dark brotherhood DLC - all they need is a bit of art, a new skill line, one quest, and maybe a new dungeon - done.

I can just imagine the *** on the forum if this is the kind of DLC we receive. I'm okay with single dungeon updates if it's meant to be a small self-contained experience, but a new faction deserves a story.

Agobi · July 2015

I'll believe it when I see it....maybe o.O

Untill then,not a chance

dennissomb16_ESO · July 2015

I think they are in better position now to roll out things like quarterly DLCs. I am guessing that a great deal of the extended wait on new content over the past year was simply because they wanted the console release first. Now with consoles out they can maximise the profits of new content. Pure speculation but I think a lot of the work for new DLC was well along the development path, just did not make sense to release any of it with out the console customer base to increase overall sales

Xendyn · July 2015

Wolfshead wrote: »

To be total honest we dont know how much ZoS have been doing behind there close doors the only thing we do know that the have been working since last year QuakeCon (2014) was IC, Orsinium and Dark Brotherhood which is so to complete the justice system that was about what got to know form ZoS last year.

So the can have hade team work only on DLC since then for i dont think the have hade the whole team work on console release beside i think the can pull it off if the have few DLC already done for if can lay 4 to 6 DLC infront there release i think are can do it.

This^
A lot of this was close to ready when "other things" got in the way. I think they're actually pretty ready to keep to this schedule but, that said, I am at a point of being warily hopeful myself and I certainly don't expect the timetable to be precise, like a train schedule or something.

Pangnirtung · July 2015

Seeing is believing when it comes to ZOS keeping their schedules.

There has been a long line of broken and unkept promises by them.

Fourth quarter release for Orsinium? Highly doubtful. With all the new "balancing" bugs that will be squashed with the IC they will be spending months trying to fix them.

Fool me once shame on you...

Gidorick · July 2015

I'll be happy if they can keep that schedule for paid DLC content, it honestly makes ESO+ tempting. $45 for sub.... or pay $25 per quarter. I'm still planning on sub-hopping. I think it'll take a smidge more to convince me to subscribe again. Especially with the DLC packs of 5500 going for $40. Buy one of those every three months and I end up owning the DLC and 3K extra crowns... of course this is assuming paid DLC is always going to be 2500 crowns.

Now, this needs to not be the only updates for this to work. We still need regular updates to make the overall experience more tactile. Like... Mount equipment, torch mechanics, campsites, etc.

RazzPitazz · July 2015

It was a smart proposal setting as they have the first two DLC near finished and the next 3-5 still in progress, that's about one year's worth of content.

Junkogen · July 2015

Faulgor wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Still another possibility is that they don't care if they can keep a schedule. They just say all this stuff to sell copies and don't care about much else.

The previous objective was 4-6 weeks between updates.

Patch cadence is going to be update every 4-6 weeks with weekly patches currently to fix issues and get the service stable.

We all know how it turned out.

You mean great? Because they were on schedule up till Update 6, when they were working on the change to B2P.

I don't think they were on schedule. They were just fixing things because of the lackluster PC launch. The console launch itself was pushed back because of it. They've never been on schedule.

I just wonder how it will be now that they've gone skeleton crew. Weren't there all those lay offs awhile back?

Junkogen · July 2015

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

I think they are in better position now to roll out things like quarterly DLCs. I am guessing that a great deal of the extended wait on new content over the past year was simply because they wanted the console release first. Now with consoles out they can maximise the profits of new content. Pure speculation but I think a lot of the work for new DLC was well along the development path, just did not make sense to release any of it with out the console customer base to increase overall sales

Don't they have way less employees now?

Samadhi · July 2015

Sharee wrote: »

It all depends on how big the updates are going to be.

Take IC or Orsinium, i very much doubt they can pump out something like that every 3 months. Both have been in development for at least a year by now.

However take dark brotherhood DLC - all they need is a bit of art, a new skill line, one quest, and maybe a new dungeon - done.

No, that is exactly why they are looking at the quarterly updates with more confidence.

Quakecon 2014 previewed many of the systems we are expecting in relatively complete formats -- in fact, seem to recall there being more footage of Murkmire (in-game footage of zone areas, enemy mob spawns) than Undaunted sets (wasn't it just concept art of the helmets at that time?).

Think that ZOS gave us as much as they think they could get away with for the lower-end stuff; while using sub-fees to pay for the rest of development for DLC content that they can charge us for again.

Psychobunni · July 2015

Junkogen wrote: »

The word on the street is that ZOS is going to try to release DLC quarterly. Is this a recipe for disaster given how much was projected to be done this year that isn't and how rushed that seems? Or do you guys think that they've actually been planning ahead and have had these DLC in the works all along?

I just worry that they're going to rush the content, bugs and all, and it will just cause all kinds of operational problems, requiring more patches, and pushing back content releases.

Still another possibility is that they don't care if they can keep a schedule. They just say all this stuff to sell copies and don't care about much else.

I'm betting that for the most part everything they announced this week is already about finished. I mean they did announce them last year too. I bet even Murkmire and Clockwork are more finished than not, and that they are already working on things we have no clue about.

Whether they manage to actually release quarterly is another matter.

UrQuan · July 2015

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

I think they are in better position now to roll out things like quarterly DLCs. I am guessing that a great deal of the extended wait on new content over the past year was simply because they wanted the console release first. Now with consoles out they can maximise the profits of new content. Pure speculation but I think a lot of the work for new DLC was well along the development path, just did not make sense to release any of it with out the console customer base to increase overall sales

I suspect that this is partly true, and that most likely the other thing that has prevented content from being released according to the "every 4-6 weeks" schedule they originally planned was that bug fixes, balance fixes, and getting the game ready for console all took far more resources than they had anticipated.

Now that we're past console launch, and the game is much more stable and balanced than it was last year (no, I'm not saying there aren't still important bug fixes that need to be made, or balance issues to be addressed - I'm just saying that it's in a much better state now), hopefully they'll be able to refocus their resources on DLC, and finish off whatever work they've already done on the different ones that have been announced so that they can actually be released on this more realistic schedule (seriously, every 12 weeks is much more realistic than every 4-6 weeks).

I'm hoping this is the case, anyway. If they can get IC and Orsinium both out on time then that'll be a good sign, and I'll be pretty happy.

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO · July 2015

Junkogen wrote: »

The word on the street is that ZOS is going to try to release DLC quarterly. Is this a recipe for disaster given how much was projected to be done this year that isn't and how rushed that seems? Or do you guys think that they've actually been planning ahead and have had these DLC in the works all along?

I just worry that they're going to rush the content, bugs and all, and it will just cause all kinds of operational problems, requiring more patches, and pushing back content releases.

Still another possibility is that they don't care if they can keep a schedule. They just say all this stuff to sell copies and don't care about much else.

They gotta pay the bills...in a way subs are back

usrevenge · July 2015

eve online does a big expansion roughly every 6 months. sometimes it's big in terms of content, sometimes it's changes to mechanics. and sometimes it's a bunch of little things packed into it.

eve online is p2p but it's very small user base

quarterly? they could do it, i just hope they don't think every dlc is worth $25.

Korozenn · July 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Still another possibility is that they don't care if they can keep a schedule. They just say all this stuff to sell copies and don't care about much else.

The previous objective was 4-6 weeks between updates.

Patch cadence is going to be update every 4-6 weeks with weekly patches currently to fix issues and get the service stable.

We all know how it turned out.

Yup. They couldn't deliver on that promise, and for that reason, the game went to buy-to-play because people stopped seeing validation to stay in the long haul (can't say I blame them).

However, a major content update every quarter of a year seems to be very doable, in my opinion.

Not every "major update" is going to add in a new zone. The Thieves Guild DLC and The Dark Brotherhood DLC are adding new guilds instead. I almost want to say that next year will likely see the following four major content updates:

2016 Content Updates: (last two are just educated guesses on my end)
Q1: Thieves' Guild DLC + Enforcer Update for Justice System
Q2: The Dark Brotherhood DLC
And, my two other guesses for 2016:
Q3: Removal of Veteran Ranks
Q4: Murkmire

^ I think this is actually very probable for ZeniMax to do next year. The removal of Veteran Ranks alone will likely introduce many new elements into the game for end-game exploration in PvE as well so that more than qualifies a reason to make it its own content update.

Dahkoht · July 2015

My guess is the lack of anything substantial the past several months is due to the fact they have been working on all these at once.

Also think of it this way.

If they had released any of these before the console launch , they would have to included them in the main game.

By holding all of these back now they can charge for every one of them for all the console players they couldn't have before.