Maxed out all crafts.. yet I have never crafted?

Savetti · July 2015

There are a few things that are seriously backwards in this game. One of them would be crafting.

I have maxed out every craft, but a few of them like Blacksmith & clothing are maxed out and I have NEVER made a single armor piece or metal weapon. I have seriously never crafted with either of these two skills, yet the game considers me a MASTER at my CRAFT in both.

Obviously, the way I mastered these skills was by deconstructing items as I get them. Yes, I understand the point of decon and that you would indeed gain knowledge from doing so. However, you should still have to practice putting the items back together. Really, I should just be a master at destroying stuff.

My point is, there is something really wrong with a system that lets you become the highest rank in crafting.. WITHOUT EVER CRAFTING....

This is my plea to ZOS. Please bring some life to crafting. Please make it mean something.

Thank you,
Savetti

MezReiki · July 2015

Master of Destruction - Can we have that as a title please?

I agree it's a bit daft. I have made stuff myself to do writs and because I love crafting, but to be able to master crafting, without actually crafting does seem silly.

Savetti · July 2015

MezReiki wrote: »

Master of Destruction - Can we have that as a title please?

Lol, it should be only obtainable by mastering your craft purely through decon.

Nestor · July 2015

MezReiki wrote: »

Master of Destruction - Can we have that as a title please?

I agree it's a bit daft. I have made stuff myself to do writs and because I love crafting, but to be able to master crafting, without actually crafting does seem silly.

There is an Achievement for that, but we are sorely lacking in Crafting Titles.

As for Mastering the Craft, you have not really done that until you have spent the points in the skill line.

Savetti · July 2015

Nestor wrote: »

As for Mastering the Craft, you have not really done that until you have spent the points in the skill line.

Actually, you don't have to spend any skill points at all to be Master. The achievement itself for Master Clothier and Blacksmith just requires you to attain a clothier/blacksmith rank of 50. You can also level to 50 without spending a single skill point.

EDIT: I think I misunderstood what you meant. lol, I see your point... to actually CRAFT something as a master you would need the skill points. Yea, this is true

Nestor · July 2015

There is being called Master, then there is Mastering the Craft. Two different things.

Savetti · July 2015

Nestor wrote: »

There is being called Master, then there is Mastering the Craft. Two different things.

lol, yea. I edited my response once I realized what you meant

BenevolentBowd · July 2015

I believe the idea of leveling crafting through deconstruction is that you "learn" by taking about items made by others.

Heh, to some extent it's like school where they teach you a lot of the theory behind things and you can become a "Master"; however, making stuff is applying the theory to practice and that makes you more in demand by perspective employers.

King Bozo · July 2015

Yes and no. Do you have all traits researched including nirn? That will keep you busy for about a year.

Savetti · July 2015

BowD wrote: »

Heh, to some extent it's like school where they teach you a lot of the theory behind things and you can become a "Master"; however, making stuff is applying the theory to practice and that makes you more demand by perspective employers.

I understand what you mean, but I don't know of any school that lets you become a Master without actually doing whatever it is your becoming a master in, at least once.

FancyTuna8 · July 2015

BowD wrote: »

I believe the idea of leveling crafting through deconstruction is that you "learn" by taking about items made by others.

Heh, to some extent it's like school where they teach you a lot of the theory behind things and you can become a "Master"; however, making stuff is applying the theory to practice and that makes you more in demand by perspective employers.

crafting and education are different.

OP is right, it seems silly that you would achieve that level without doing such an integral part of the craft. Ideally, they would make it so that you could only obtain X amount of xp in that craft from decon, Y from creation, Z from refining, W from improvement, and V from researching. Where X and Y would be the lion's share, Z something less than 10%, and V and then W only a few percent each.

One thing I liked in Witcher 2 was that you couldn't get XP from killing a monster after a certain point--you were a master at killing that creature, and you gained no further self-improvement from further conflict with them. It is an excellent game mechanic that mimics the real world.

Savetti · July 2015

King Bozo wrote: »

Yes and no. Do you have all traits researched including nirn? That will keep you busy for about a year.

Yes, for my preference I would want all traits including Nirn. It should be something that is somewhat respected and desired, so not everyone will be able to do it right away.

adino · July 2015

I remember the podcasts and the promos for ESO and how incredible crafting would be. What a let down huh? I don't know if people would actually like a crafting mechanic like Final Fantasy does or EQ2, but yeah the crafting is very shallow. The thing is, even if they made it complex as in you need this 5 items to make a blue armor piece or only this station can make this on a full moon during a tuesday all that info will be online in a day which makes it kind of pointless.

How does one make crafting challenging? I really like how FF does crafting but man that was time consuming and I am not sure I want that either. I like crafting but I am not a hardcore crafter. Maybe a hybrid where making stuff is like it is now but upgrading requires a mechanic. A hard mechanic and harder the higher the upgrade and you still need the appropriate crafting resource. It can even me like a "simon" type game. 6 random keys flash on the screen and you have to duplicate it. 12 for yellow. I know, the RPing nazis will ask what does that have to do with crafting, and the answer is nothing. It just makes it more worthwhile.

Savetti · July 2015

@adino

I don't think making crafting a mini game, like Simon, would be good. I think crafting just needs a decent overhaul, it needs meaning and weight added to it. When it comes to "end game" it's all about the dropped gear and weapons, which is not good at all. When you get to "end game" you should be seeking out the BEST crafter you can find to make you the best possible gear... But instead, you are farming AP (and soon to be TV) or killing mobs/bosses over and over again trying to get the gear you want. Crafting lacks severe uniqueness. In this game it is so easy to level your craft, that everyone is the best crafter. It's rather sad...

Darkonflare15 · July 2015

adino wrote: »

I remember the podcasts and the promos for ESO and how incredible crafting would be. What a let down huh? I don't know if people would actually like a crafting mechanic like Final Fantasy does or EQ2, but yeah the crafting is very shallow. The thing is, even if they made it complex as in you need this 5 items to make a blue armor piece or only this station can make this on a full moon during a tuesday all that info will be online in a day which makes it kind of pointless.

How does one make crafting challenging? I really like how FF does crafting but man that was time consuming and I am not sure I want that either. I like crafting but I am not a hardcore crafter. Maybe a hybrid where making stuff is like it is now but upgrading requires a mechanic. A hard mechanic and harder the higher the upgrade and you still need the appropriate crafting resource. It can even me like a "simon" type game. 6 random keys flash on the screen and you have to duplicate it. 12 for yellow. I know, the RPing nazis will ask what does that have to do with crafting, and the answer is nothing. It just makes it more worthwhile.

To be honest, I am fine with what crafting it is now. There is too many items and variables that go into crafting that I would not call it shallow.Like traits, tempers, style stones, refine material, raw material, researching, motifis, special crafting areas, and writs. Now we see them trying to make crafting more of a challenge with splitting purple motifs into chapters, nirnhored trait a little hard to find, making a little hard to get dwemer scraps to get one dwemer frame to make one piece of armor, and it seems they are making the future motifs and their trait stones the same way. Now I would like better rewards for actually crafting good items.Right now I do not feel like a master crafter.

Nestor · July 2015

Jewelery Crafting would go a long way to making it better.

So would buffing the 8 and 9 trait sets. As it stands now, they are not really worth the time.

However we are supposed to see some changes to the Crafted Sets with the next content update, so when that hits the PTS we will see what we are going to get.

Savetti · July 2015

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Now I would like better rewards for actually crafting good items.Right now I do not feel like a master crafter.

I would love to see better rewards for crafting. And really just better rewards for the game in general, but that is irrelevant for this topic. I as well do not feel like a master crafter at all. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that the best items I can make are also everyone else's best items that they can make. Instead of there being a master crafter that you can go to for bad a$$ items, you can just go to anyone for it... and that's if you even want a craftable set at "End game".

I remember in some of the first MMO's some of the crafters in the game were actually famous in-game because of the awesome stuff they could make that not every crafter had the skills to do. You will never see anything like that in ESO, unfortunately.

Honestly, as much as I love to see "Crafted by "Playername" on items that are crafted, what's the point? Anyone can make it.. Sure it takes some research for higher trait sets, but that is literally the only restriction. It's not like the item is unique and you would want to advertise who made it so that other players would seek out that crafter. Never have I seen that name and needed to seek out that player. Essentially anyone can make the item for you.

Savetti · July 2015

Nestor wrote: »

Jewelery Crafting would go a long way to making it better.

So would buffing the 8 and 9 trait sets. As it stands now, they are not really worth the time.

However we are supposed to see some changes to the Crafted Sets with the next content update, so when that hits the PTS we will see what we are going to get.

Indeed, I am looking forward to this and can't wait for it to hit the PTS.

Jewelry crafting would be nice, and for sure should be in-game. But, I don't think that will help make the overall crafting system any better or add any weight to it.

Eudes461 · July 2015

Yeah it's quite odd, you should gain more for making items, or more exp from researching, the basic principles are you research an item you should have more knowledge of said craft...

FancyTuna8 · July 2015

Adding a little more variety to the traits, as in more of them, but capping the number of traits anyone can learn so that you can't learn them all, would help. Then have the traits interact in different ways for secondary effects (nothing game-breaking), so that you could get a bit more rarity to what people are crafting.

Savetti · July 2015

FancyTuna8 wrote: »

Adding a little more variety to the traits, as in more of them, but capping the number of traits anyone can learn so that you can't learn them all, would help. Then have the traits interact in different ways for secondary effects (nothing game-breaking), so that you could get a bit more rarity to what people are crafting.

I suppose yea, this would help. However, it's a little late to implement in the game as many players already have all the traits. I guess this could work with future traits but it wont have the same effect since the majority of the traits are apart of everyone's knowledge already.

Ourorboros · July 2015

Too right, OP. Crafting in this game is nothing but a grind involving collecting, processing, and research. The latter is the only interesting part, as it is tied to set creation. I have an alt mastered in all but enchanting without ever crafting a single item, and another almost there. This is not the crafting game that makes my character unique and valuable, as the ZOS PR machine advertised. I look forward to upcoming changes in the next major patch, but I will be surprised if make crafting more interesting rather than adding a new grind element, a la nirncrux.

Savetti · July 2015

Ourorboros wrote: »

I look forward to upcoming changes in the next major patch, but I will be surprised if make crafting more interesting rather than adding a new grind element, a la nirncrux.

I too am looking forward to the next update. Are they making any changes to crafting? I have not heard of any changes yet with the IC updated but I may have missed something. I think Quakecon is today, so perhaps we will hear something there.

adino · July 2015

By shallow I meant no actual skill. Yeah I agree with most of the posts here. Make crafting difficult and meaningful. It should not be for everyone.

For example with the exp pots came out everyone was trying to become this master provisioner. Guess what, everyone was able to in a couple of hours. That is kind of sad. All you had to do was throw money at it go to a fire pit and (get addon) set slider to 50 and press E. Walk away and come back. Rinse and repeat till you are 50.

It is very shallow and unsatisfying.

I am not sure why ESO believed their system was so great but I do have a theory. Initially the system was pretty complex because no information was out there. You have to collect so many different things to make one thing it was a challenge. But once you are in game for a few months you have everything and have researched everything the game has no challenge anymore. Much like pve content. So In a manner the crafting was complex for awhile but once you got all the information it was no longer complex. The complexity was in the information. In this way they designed it like an RPG where information gathering is part of the game and it makes it fun because you only play through it once. In an MMO you play through it 100s of times. I think they forgot this or did not understand this. The new mmo's that advertise complex crafting such as the korean grind fests MMOs all have much more richer and complex systems that are highly rewarding. But again their systems involve a crafting mechanic and it is a GRIND! In those games the true master crafters are people who love crafting not these guys who try to zerg through the game. And of course you got a boat load of people complaining how "boring and what a grind" crafting is. I guess it is a pick your poison type thing. People hate grinding but people want things to "mean" something.

Video game development is tough.

Savetti · July 2015

adino wrote: »

Video game development is tough.

I think video game development isn't as hard as the business side of it. The business and the money portion is what is hurting the gaming industry so much. Never have I seen so many games be released so broken after an ungodly amount of hype. My comments in this simi rant are not aimed at ESO, mainly just the gaming industry as a whole. But, It is clear that ESO is hurting bad and tons of player have left this game quicker that others that I have seen, granted more and more join every day. I just hope to see some improvement with the systems that currently reside in ESO, as they stand currently this game cannot sustain.. and that breaks my heart because I love this game and have been waiting for it since Morrowind.

Ashtaris · July 2015

I've always felt that crafting in ESO was a bit strange. It always seemed more natural to me that you should be able to reach the maximum level of a particular craft by creating new items rather than destroying them. Give us the inspiration for creation/improvements, and the mats/trait stones from deconstruction and refining.

Xendyn · July 2015

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

To be honest, I am fine with what crafting it is now. There is too many items and variables that go into crafting that I would not call it shallow.Like traits, tempers, style stones, refine material, raw material, researching, motifis, special crafting areas, and writs. Now we see them trying to make crafting more of a challenge with splitting purple motifs into chapters, nirnhored trait a little hard to find, making a little hard to get dwemer scraps to get one dwemer frame to make one piece of armor, and it seems they are making the future motifs and their trait stones the same way. Now I would like better rewards for actually crafting good items.Right now I do not feel like a master crafter.

Did ya'll catch what they're doing with the Glass motif? Adding even more to the process.

To get Glass Style Motif Chapters, you must first obtain Glass Style Motif Fragments. You have a chance of getting Glass Style Motif Fragments any time you complete a Clothier, Woodworking, or Blacksmith crafting writ (the higher tiers of crafting, the better chance.) You then combine 10 Glass Style Motif Fragments with Merethic Restorative Resin (sold in the Mages Guild locations) to create a Glass Motif Chapter. Very rarely, you may also be lucky and get the full Glass Motif Book when you perform a Glass Style Motif Fragment combination. The Glass Style Motif Fragments, Glass Style Motif Chapters, and Glass Style Motif Book can all be traded and sold to other players.
Edited by ZOS_JessicaFolsom on July 24, 2015 1:14PM

Savetti · July 2015

Xendyn wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

To be honest, I am fine with what crafting it is now. There is too many items and variables that go into crafting that I would not call it shallow.Like traits, tempers, style stones, refine material, raw material, researching, motifis, special crafting areas, and writs. Now we see them trying to make crafting more of a challenge with splitting purple motifs into chapters, nirnhored trait a little hard to find, making a little hard to get dwemer scraps to get one dwemer frame to make one piece of armor, and it seems they are making the future motifs and their trait stones the same way. Now I would like better rewards for actually crafting good items.Right now I do not feel like a master crafter.

Did ya'll catch what they're doing with the Glass motif? Adding even more to the process.

To get Glass Style Motif Chapters, you must first obtain Glass Style Motif Fragments. You have a chance of getting Glass Style Motif Fragments any time you complete a Clothier, Woodworking, or Blacksmith crafting writ (the higher tiers of crafting, the better chance.) You then combine 10 Glass Style Motif Fragments with Merethic Restorative Resin (sold in the Mages Guild locations) to create a Glass Motif Chapter. Very rarely, you may also be lucky and get the full Glass Motif Book when you perform a Glass Style Motif Fragment combination. The Glass Style Motif Fragments, Glass Style Motif Chapters, and Glass Style Motif Book can all be traded and sold to other players.
Edited by ZOS_JessicaFolsom on July 24, 2015 1:14PM

I actually did not, thank you for posting this. I knew about glass, but not the motif bit.