Why is it possible to use CPs on a non vet character at all?

Magdalina · July 2015

CP system in general has a ton of flaws, mainly making the game too easy, favouring grinding playstyle and giving some players very noticeable advantage over others, but this one part just doesn't make *any* sense. The rest of the system you can try to defend saying "diminishing returns", "enlightment lets you catch up"(not really but still) etc, but this...you cannot earn CP as a non vet, AT ALL. So my baby alts will ALWAYS have a noticeable advantage over a new player. I will have an advantage anyway because I know the game etc, but they will learn their game eventually as well - however, I will also have ~10% stronger shields, ~10% more mag regen, ~10% spellcost reduction, ~10% block cost reduction, 12% more spellcrit, ~10% more healing done, ~10% more elemental damage etc etc etc...and that's just with ~220 CP(I say ~10% because I don't remember my exact stats but I tried to even most of them out at around 10% for now), which is really not a lot.

That would be an annoying but not really affecting anything major mishap overall, but we have specifically non veteran PvP...think about it. Only non vet players can participate in non vet PvP. That's good, you'd think, letting new players to get into it without getting swarmed by v14s that have been perfecting their PvP skills since launch. But only vet players can earn CP, yet non vet can use them. There's literally NO WAY for a new player to have CP, at all. By the time he levels to vet and starts earning them he won't be able to do non vet PvP anymore. So in the end there's a clear advantage players with vet alts have that new players/players without vet alts have absolutely no way to overcome. No catching up in non vet PvP EVER. Just what is the reasoning behind this decision again? Is there something I'm missing?

OzJohnD · July 2015

so you can gank V+ players with your lvl 18 toon

Sausage · July 2015

Because ESO rewards you for a time you put in. I support though CP removing from non-vet Campaigns, so new people can enjoy while it last, basically get their money's worth of good PVP, well at least better, because Vet Campaigns are gonna get screwed soon, mainly because of high CP, VR differences and IC-gear combination, winter is coming so to speak.

snackrat · July 2015

CP as a system is as much to reward those who play alts as it is for those who grind on one guy. In part this means that all their alts are improved equally at Vet, but it also means those alts level more easily. This shows its main practical use in PvE.

As for PvP, even without CP you can still get ambushed by heavily-equipped twinks, or alts from experienced players. They're talking about making a CP-free campaign soon, but let's be honest - then it will be some other system that is unfairly subjugating new players. It never stops.

Mario80 · July 2015

What's the point of cp if we have no cp campaign?
IMO cp are here so people do not feel bound to just play there main.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2015

I've heard a couple of my friends say as VR1 that enemies of like VR2 can kick their ass despite them having some CP. Perhaps some people are just epicly hardcore enough to breeze the game but for those less skilled or more casual if not both CP can make a difference.

To each their own I suppose? But yeah maybe people just want to dominate others and need CP on non-vets for those campaigns just for the sake of griefing.

Alts get all sorts of special treatment though, even being allowed to skip The Wailing Prison (at the cost of the Collar of Bones).

dodgehopper_ESO · July 2015

It rewards you when you make a new character. It makes leveling that new character easier. On the other side though I do think they need to consider setting up at least one pre-Vet campaign that doesn't include CP bonus.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2015

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

It rewards you when you make a new character. It makes leveling that new character easier. On the other side though I do think they need to consider setting up at least one pre-Vet campaign that doesn't include CP bonus.

I really haven't seen any OP players in non-vet though. I do pretty awesomely myself and I use nothing special nor do I have CP. If people think skill cannot overcome stats they are seriously mistaken. OP-broken skills and exploits however... Well that's another story lol but I for one refuse to resort to exploits so all good here. The tougher my opponent is though the more it strengthens my A-game so I say bring the CP!

Pirhana7_ESO · July 2015

I like the CP system as it keeps giving you small progression rewards for whatever you do. For me its PVP progression. BUT i agree characters should NOT have CPs in non vet campaigns.

In my opinion you should not get access to your accounts champion points until your character reaches Vet level 1

Sithisvoid · July 2015

I'm pretty sure that's the reward of the vet system. The more you play the stronger you get.

Tolmos · July 2015

To give new players an early taste of what it's like to play against hardcore botters and grinders in PvP.

No reason to give new players an incorrect view of the game!

Slonekb05 · July 2015

CP system is just bad design all way around. plain and simple

Acrolas · July 2015

Slonekb05 wrote: »

CP system is just bad design all way around. plain and simple

How? You're trading experience for the skill and resource improvements that you prefer. It's a good system.

I think the problem is that some people want to be a superstar PVP hero at level 10, and everything that gets in their way is a game flaw.

markt84 · July 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

I've heard a couple of my friends say as VR1 that enemies of like VR2 can kick their ass despite them having some CP. Perhaps some people are just epicly hardcore enough to breeze the game but for those less skilled or more casual if not both CP can make a difference.

To each their own I suppose? But yeah maybe people just want to dominate others and need CP on non-vets for those campaigns just for the sake of griefing.

Alts get all sorts of special treatment though, even being allowed to skip The Wailing Prison (at the cost of the Collar of Bones).

If they are v1 and can't beat v2 enemy's, they aren't very good at the game.

Bromburak · July 2015

Because its a great system with exception of non-vet Campaign availability.

markt84 · July 2015

Acrolas wrote: »

Slonekb05 wrote: »

CP system is just bad design all way around. plain and simple

How? You're trading experience for the skill and resource improvements that you prefer. It's a good system.

I think the problem is that some people want to be a superstar PVP hero at level 10, and everything that gets in their way is a game flaw.

Hahaha no the problem is that PC transfers game will maxed characters and destroy large groups of people. And the system rewards grinding over playing the game. The problem is people with no lives want to be gods and this system allows them to be

Magdalina · July 2015

Acrolas wrote: »

Slonekb05 wrote: »

CP system is just bad design all way around. plain and simple

How? You're trading experience for the skill and resource improvements that you prefer. It's a good system.

I think the problem is that some people want to be a superstar PVP hero at level 10, and everything that gets in their way is a game flaw.

Actually I'd say the problem is that you CAN be PvP superstar at level 10 because CP. An experienced player with vet alts will already have just that reward and advantage - experience, he'll know how things work. That's fine and good, that's how it should be, that should encourage new players to learn and improve themselves...but then on top of that he'll also have very clear and pure mathematical advantage a newer player can NEVER possibly overcome(not within limits of non vet campaign at least). I don't see how this makes sense. Isn't whole point of non vet campaign to NOT let that happen?
And I cannot show you exact testing in PvP environment but I am pretty sure CPs make a difference. Just try to apply your 200+ CP to a non vet char to see it. You'll steamroll the mobs that killed you before while using *exact same strategy*, just thanks to CP buffs.

NewBlacksmurf · July 2015

Because the initial purpose of the champion system was to help phase out VR levels. Then later Zenimax said that's not the case.....who knows at this point but initially the champion system was to offset the VR system so with that, a player could reroll and not have to grind all the VR stuff over and over again.

I personally thought the next phase would make certain other things account wide but it all stopped with mounts and champion points.

But let's be honest...champion point system isn't the issue in PvP.
Cyrodil and how it works is the issue. Champion points just added to the same things PvP complaints were about.

We all know it's so simple for Zenimax to disable champion points while in Cyrodil...regardless of whether it makes sense or not.
The same complaint comes with a VR 14 master crafter who makes full sets of gear and weapons for a level 10-45.

Ppl who work harder and longer will always have an advantage of some sort. Champion points or whatever other function or feature it's the same argument. Ppl don't like getting gabled and ppl don't like loosing.

We can't all be winners nor should the game change as such.
Perhaps a PvE version of Cyrodil is more fitting for some but....champion points would still be an issue just as crafted gear, etc

olemanwinter · July 2015

Because it makes leveling up alts less of a freaking nightmare. Asked and answered.

Rydik · July 2015

Because spending years to make another character viable is stupid...

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Using champion points on a sub veteran rank character acts as a way to help make alts a little quicker and lets you use what you already have earned. It's a nice setup.

Slonekb05 · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Using champion points on a sub veteran rank character acts as a way to help make alts a little quicker and lets you use what you already have earned. It's a nice setup.

Agree to disagree on that. each character should stand on its own. CP sharing is a joke to me.

Tolmos · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Using champion points on a sub veteran rank character acts as a way to help make alts a little quicker and lets you use what you already have earned. It's a nice setup.

Also acts as a way to weed out new players, so we don't have to worry about the population increasing too quickly! Folks get in, get demolished by someone with high CP in what should be an otherwise balanced campaign, and loses interest. Bam, problem solved.