Why we can't move with a torch?

Nic727 · July 2015

Hi,

Burning torch is part of an encore in elder scrolls online, but I think we should be able to move with it for a better roleplay experience in caves or during night.

What do you think?

+ in 1st person, we should see more of your arms. Now we only see the burning part of the torch.

Thank you

Cookiethief · July 2015

Agreed, what's Elder scrolls without torches

soleil.clercb14_ESO · July 2015

yeah I agree with this 100%

while it may be a small thing, I think it adds to the game

Akavir_Sentinel · July 2015

It's an emote, and you can't move while using any emote, not just torch.

wafcatb14_ESO · July 2015

Even Everquest wayyyy back in 1999 you could equip a torch and carry it as a light source which was great and wood elfs had infra-vision, dark elfs had ultra-vision and humans were blind at night without a light source.

OzJohnD · July 2015

Way back in the days of real men and real games, in dark areas you could not see anything without a torch. Where has immersion gone !!?

Slonekb05 · July 2015

game is bright as hell if you go by there standards to set your screen brightness

Gidorick · July 2015

wafcatb14_ESO wrote: »

Even Everquest wayyyy back in 1999 you could equip a torch and carry it as a light source which was great and wood elfs had infra-vision, dark elfs had ultra-vision and humans were blind at night without a light source.

ALL of these are staples of Elder Scrolls. Why they're not in ESO is beyond me.

SkinnyDG · July 2015

They still developing Everquest Next?

Nic727 · September 2015

I have an idea :

1. Activate emote with torch
2. You can move like you want.
3. Press attack button to remove the torch and take your weapon.

TheShadowScout · September 2015

I have a better idea...
Now, emotes cannot be sustained while movion, that's how emotes usually work.
But...
That's not the only option now, is it?
Why not just give a "torch" item that can be used just like a -disguise-?
Meaning you slot it in the costume/disguise slot, as long as its there you will walk with your torch held high, but if you get attacked you drop the torch to grab your weapon and fight back... just like disguises break when attackes... same mechanic...

TX12001rwb17_ESO · September 2015

Torchs?

DovresMalven · September 2015

why not just make torches weak weapons?

Alucardo · September 2015

I get you, but lately cyrodiil has been full of lute players. The last thing I want to see is Lute players and people walking around with torches while we're trying to remain stealthed.

So that's a no from me. What do you think Simon?

Alucardo · September 2015

An alternative would be allowing the use of torches in non-pvp areas, but if you want immersion you can forget about pulling a magical torch from your butt. You'll need to buy them from merchants or loot them from dungeons. Then you can open your inventory (or quick slot) and use them as a normal item. To make them viable they'd need a charge instead of just being destroyed every time you come across an enemy

NovaMarx · September 2015

Generally, there are a lot of emotes that would benefit from staying active while in motion --> and also being able to activate certain emotes while mounted.
However, I unfortunately believe that this will only ever be a "dream". It would mean them having to implement a whole new kind of emote, which you can toggle on/off with a button or command, which I doubt is in the cards - at least in comparison with all the other wishes out there.

I will welcome it with open arms, but I'm not holding my breath

JD2013 · September 2015

OzJohnD wrote: »

Way back in the days of real men and real games, in dark areas you could not see anything without a torch. Where has immersion gone !!?

Is "Immersion" the new buzzword?

"ZOS, yer breaking muh immersions!!!" You would be surprised at how much people say breaks their immersion around here. Besides, they have mentioned this as something they want to introduce. Cool your immersion jets.

twev · September 2015

I keep getting eaten by Grue's.

We need torches.

Asmael · September 2015

New weapon:
--
Torch
Level of item: 1
Damage: 9

Trait: Torch
While unsheathed, burns and reveal nearby areas, increasing stealth detection radius
at night by 5 meters. Slowly decreases enchantment charges over time.

Enchantment: Fire
Deal X fire damage while attacking.
--

There you go. You can even fight or block with it, just like in Skyrim. Problem solved.

Egonieser · September 2015

Never used a torch in any ESO game, ans don't need one now.

Nic727 · September 2015

Asmael wrote: »

New weapon:
--
Torch
Level of item: 1
Damage: 9

Trait: Torch
While unsheathed, burns and reveal nearby areas, increasing stealth detection radius
at night by 5 meters. Slowly decreases enchantment charges over time.

Enchantment: Fire
Deal X fire damage while attacking.
--

There you go. You can even fight or block with it, just like in Skyrim. Problem solved.

You are a genius!

Smitch_59 · September 2015

I liked torches in other ES games. On one hand, they let you see in dark places. The downside is they make you more visible to enemies.

I remember using torches, candles and lanterns in Morrowind until I could enchant a piece of gear with constant-effect night eye.

nimander99 · September 2015

Several months ago there was word they were working on a way to make torches persistent.

SIXR_sCaR · September 2015

This is what i wanna do

Gidorick · September 2015

Asmael wrote: »

New weapon:
--
Torch
Level of item: 1
Damage: 9

Trait: Torch
While unsheathed, burns and reveal nearby areas, increasing stealth detection radius
at night by 5 meters. Slowly decreases enchantment charges over time.

Enchantment: Fire
Deal X fire damage while attacking.
--

There you go. You can even fight or block with it, just like in Skyrim. Problem solved.

An elegant solution that would have fit Elder Scrolls Online prior to the cash shop. Look for torches to be consumables.

UrQuan · September 2015

twev wrote: »

I keep getting eaten by Grue's.

We need torches.

Blast! I clicked on this thread specifically because I wanted to post something about being eaten by a Grue, but you beat me to it!

Triddle · September 2015

The idea of using a torch to provide light in a small dark space being immersive is a little weird to me. In reality this would be a quick ticket to a choking death. I think its one of the fantasy genre tropes that makes the least sense. Torches (in reality) were never used as light sources, they were for lighting things on fire. Seeing people wander through caves with them is immersion breaking for me because it just acts as this bumbling reminder that the historical influence goes about as far as not-having-iphones. Its unrealistic in a different way to magic and the like, magic is the inclusion of some intentional thing to spice the world up, using torches as lights is like using tables as a mode of transport. Sure you can sit on them, and you could maybe tie them up to a horse or have someone push them or something... but why not just drive a car?

Screw torches, bring on the lamps.

bedlom · September 2015

Nic727 wrote: »

Hi,

Burning torch is part of an encore in elder scrolls online, but I think we should be able to move with it for a better roleplay experience in caves or during night.

Thank you

I know right, this is something i miss so much and still hope they bring into eso.

UrQuan · September 2015

Triddle wrote: »

The idea of using a torch to provide light in a small dark space being immersive is a little weird to me. In reality this would be a quick ticket to a choking death. I think its one of the fantasy genre tropes that makes the least sense. Torches (in reality) were never used as light sources, they were for lighting things on fire. Seeing people wander through caves with them is immersion breaking for me because it just acts as this bumbling reminder that the historical influence goes about as far as not-having-iphones. Its unrealistic in a different way to magic and the like, magic is the inclusion of some intentional thing to spice the world up, using torches as lights is like using tables as a mode of transport. Sure you can sit on them, and you could maybe tie them up to a horse or have someone push them or something... but why not just drive a car?

Screw torches, bring on the lamps.

Hmm,

Wikipedia wrote:

Torch

A torch is a stick with combustible material at one end, which is ignited and used as a light source.[1] Torches have been used throughout history, and are still used in processions, symbolic and religious events, and in juggling entertainment.

Torch construction

Torch construction has varied through history depending the torch's purpose. Torches were usually constructed of a wooden stave with one end wrapped in a material which was soaked in a flammable substance. In ancient Rome some torches were made of sulfur mixed with lime. This meant that the fire would not diminish after being plunged into water. Modern procession torches are made from coarse hessian rolled into a tube and soaked in wax. There is usually a wooden handle and a cardboard collar to deflect any wax droplets. They are an easy, safe and relatively cheap way to hold a flame aloft in a parade, or to provide illumination in any after-dark celebration.

Modern torches suitable for juggling are made of a wooden and metal or metal only stave with one end wrapped in a Kevlar wick. This wick is soaked in a flammable liquid, usually paraffin (kerosene).

You might also want to check this out:
http://www.historyoflighting.net/lighting-history/history-of-torches/

Molag_Crow · September 2015

Yes please!

Triddle · September 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Triddle wrote: »

The idea of using a torch to provide light in a small dark space being immersive is a little weird to me. In reality this would be a quick ticket to a choking death. I think its one of the fantasy genre tropes that makes the least sense. Torches (in reality) were never used as light sources, they were for lighting things on fire. Seeing people wander through caves with them is immersion breaking for me because it just acts as this bumbling reminder that the historical influence goes about as far as not-having-iphones. Its unrealistic in a different way to magic and the like, magic is the inclusion of some intentional thing to spice the world up, using torches as lights is like using tables as a mode of transport. Sure you can sit on them, and you could maybe tie them up to a horse or have someone push them or something... but why not just drive a car?

Screw torches, bring on the lamps.

Hmm,

Wikipedia wrote:

Torch

A torch is a stick with combustible material at one end, which is ignited and used as a light source.[1] Torches have been used throughout history, and are still used in processions, symbolic and religious events, and in juggling entertainment.

Torch construction

Torch construction has varied through history depending the torch's purpose. Torches were usually constructed of a wooden stave with one end wrapped in a material which was soaked in a flammable substance. In ancient Rome some torches were made of sulfur mixed with lime. This meant that the fire would not diminish after being plunged into water. Modern procession torches are made from coarse hessian rolled into a tube and soaked in wax. There is usually a wooden handle and a cardboard collar to deflect any wax droplets. They are an easy, safe and relatively cheap way to hold a flame aloft in a parade, or to provide illumination in any after-dark celebration.

Modern torches suitable for juggling are made of a wooden and metal or metal only stave with one end wrapped in a Kevlar wick. This wick is soaked in a flammable liquid, usually paraffin (kerosene).

You might also want to check this out:
http://www.historyoflighting.net/lighting-history/history-of-torches/

Good to see that you're looking references to refute my claims, however, I think its important to note that neither of your sources are referenced (in fact the wikipedia portion you quote cites a web-based dictionary, but that's hardly reputable). I certainly agree that torches are used as a light source today (particularly during festivals), and that they most likely saw this use during (whatever period(s) the Elder scrolls is influenced by).

What I disagree with is the notion of carrying them into confined spaces as a light source. I do note that I said they were 'never used as light sources', which I was mistaken to say. I was fixated on thinking of carrying a torch into an ESO-style dungeon. In open-air environments they work to illuminate a small area around them, however they are not useful to carry around to illuminate the night in the way of a modern battery powered torch. This is because the user is effectively night-blinded by having a massive light source right near their eyes, so the pupils contract, making the surrounding darkness impenetrable to the user. You can experiment with this at home and the effects will be blindingly (forgive the pun) obvious. To that end, a torch is very useful for allowing other people to see you, and very ineffective for allowing you to navigate dark environments. That said, if you just want to illuminate the small area around you (for example, in searching for a lost something-or-other) they could be quite useful.

The other issue is that they can produce large amounts of poisionous gas and smoke (though you might be able to work around this by carefully choosing an appropriate fuel), and hence will cause a combination of blindness (from smoke in the eyes), and respiratory distress when used in enclosed environments.

These are the reasons that torches, as used by adventurers in fantasy settings, are silly. There's a surprising lack of scholarly research on the applications of torches throughout history (at least, quick searches in google scholar and scopus turned up blanks). There're a few articles in a similar vein to what you linked, but none of these appear to be evidence based, and lack citation. My thoughts on this come from extrapolation of personal experience handling torches rather than actual research, so it could be that I've exposed myself to baises by the construction of the torches I have handled, and they may be quite different to the torches of history. With that said though, the first point on usefulness for allowing a person to navigate a dark environment are independent of the torch construction, and follow from some basic facts about light and the human eye.

Now with all of that said, I was really just being a scrooge in my original post for a bit of fun.