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The reason why the champion system is great and why it shall be fixed

trimsic_ESO
trimsic_ESO
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The reason why the champion system is great

I've been playing GW2 for about 12-14 months, a game where there is almost no character progression. For example, if you stop the game for 6 months and then come back, you will find the game almost unchanged. Same gear, same skills, same character: almost nothing has changed, with the exception of some new cool looking stuff.

Well, that may not be a problem if you're in the position of the person who comes back, but imagine how the people who stayed in the game can feel like. This game gets more and more boring as you play it because there is nothing else to do in this game than doing the exact same thing again and again, day after day, month after month, with abolutely no character progression at all. At least in ESO our character makes some progress as it becomes a bit stronger day after day owing to the champion system, and believe me or not but that's really better than nothing.

Every MMO needs a progression system. That's what makes an MMO so different than a classic RPG: a persistent world where every character can evolve constantly. And this is what keeps people motivated at doing something in an MMO: constant evolution. Looting or crafting new gear with more stats, unlocking new abilities, gaining more defense and more attack power, yes that's exactly what people want and make them willing to play the game more, always more.

This is the reason why the champion system is great: it offers this constant evolution. Yes, there is no enough new gear in the champion system, and this is badly missing in the game, but this is something that is going to be addressed in the next patches, and if getting such new gears requires leveling 2 additional VRs, let it be.


The reason why the champion system has to be fixed
Unfortunately, this constant evolution is also what makes the people unhappy, especially for those who don't have the chance to equip the last great new gear, or have no enough play time to catch up the top tier of players who are now too powerful compared to the rest of the community. That's a real issue, especially for the PVP endgame.

Indeed, how a new comer could catch up the players who have been in the game for two years or more? Should that new player accept to be largely out performed by most if not all the other players, having almost no chance to win any 1v1 combat in Cyrodiil? And what about the people who don't have enough play time to earn enough CP to remain competitive?

In its current form, the champion system leads to a dead end, and this is not a surprize to see so many people complaining about the champion system everywhere in this forum.

So what could be done to solve this issue while keeping the champion system up and running well for everybody?


A proposed solution: the season system
A system season is quite simple to understand: when a new season starts, everyone has a minimum number of CP and no one can gain more than a maximum number of CP. It's just as simple as that. And it solves a lot of issues:

- New comers start ESO with a minimum pool of CP. They can decide to spend these CP or not. If they do spend their points, they will be able to level up quite quickly, because they will be much stronger than the originally designed contents. If they don't spend their points, they will be able to play the game in its original form. It's up to them to decide. Once they reach the max level of the game, they can spend all their champion points and be quite competitive both in PVE and in Cyrodiil.

- People with a small play time start a new season with a minimum number of CP. They can therefore catch up the top tier of players and remain competitive.

- People with a huge play time start a new season with a new cap of CP to earn, giving them new objectives for the new season. However they cannot go beyond that new cap, because it's very important for the health of the game that the difference between the top tier of players and the rest of the community remains within reasonable bounds. Playtime will remain rewarded, because people who can play more can have more CP, but not beyond a limit fixed by the game designers.


How the season system could be implemented:

The 3600 champion points we can earn in the game are divided in 10 seasons of 360 CP each: no one can earn more than 360 CP per season. Each season lasts for 6 months; the 10 seasons would therefore cover a 5 years of constant progression where more powerful new gear would be made available at the begining of each new season. Of course, the 6 months period is an example and can be tuned down if the community thinks it's too long.

The season #1 has started when the champion system has been released.

The season #2 will start when update 7 is released. With two new VRs and new VR16 gear, the next update is probably the ideal time to start this second season. In this season, no one will be able to earn more than 720 CP. If some people have already more: lucky ones. But they won't get more. Every one will have at least 180 CP. If some people have less, they will start the season with 180 CP. This is a great welcome to new comers, and a good incentive to people who have a small play time: we don't forget you. Finally, everyone who has not yet 360 CP is permanently enlighted until they reach that cap.

When the season #3 starts, the same system is applied, with different numbers:
- Min CP: 540
- Max CP: 1080
- Perma enlighted up to 720 CP.

The idea is always the same:
- Keep the min-max numbers of CP in reasonable bounds
- Keep control over how and when the players can have their character progress, jointly and in sync with the addition of new contents
- Allow casual and new players to catch up with the top tier of players - don't abandon them


Conclusion
The champion system is great but it needs a season system or an equivalent system to remain at the same time attractive for the hardcore gamers and pleasant for everyone else.


  • nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO
    nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO
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    It is actually a good idea. I would only add one suggestion; remove the 12 day cap on enlightened instead of handing out free enlightenment at season starts.

    But what would you do with people who have already progressed far beyond 360 now?

    There is no fair way to handle it, the most fair would be to prevent further progression until the start of the next season, but even that is harsh.
  • Egonieser
    Egonieser
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    I actually agree with this idea, it could work well if implemented right. Alas doubt it will ever happen, but one can only hope.
    People like you should be awarded for putting out really good and genuine ideas and ZoS should read more, instead of catering to all the nerf X and buff Y whine-threads.

    +1
    Sometimes, I dream about...cheese...

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    (Yes, I had to grind all these to v16)
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    (CP 830+)

    PC - EU
  • Rinmaethodain
    Rinmaethodain
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    It is actually a good idea. I would only add one suggestion; remove the 12 day cap on enlightened instead of handing out free enlightenment at season starts.

    But what would you do with people who have already progressed far beyond 360 now?

    There is no fair way to handle it, the most fair would be to prevent further progression until the start of the next season, but even that is harsh.

    People who already progressed far beyond 360 WORKED for it with their own hard work and dedicating their OWN TIME to it. I dont see any reason to do anything with it.

    Unless you enjoy poking your nose into someones else buissnes?
  • trimsic_ESO
    trimsic_ESO
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    It is actually a good idea. I would only add one suggestion; remove the 12 day cap on enlightened instead of handing out free enlightenment at season starts.

    But what would you do with people who have already progressed far beyond 360 now?

    There is no fair way to handle it, the most fair would be to prevent further progression until the start of the next season, but even that is harsh.

    People who already progressed far beyond 360 WORKED for it with their own hard work and dedicating their OWN TIME to it. I dont see any reason to do anything with it.

    Unless you enjoy poking your nose into someones else buissnes?
    I understand what you mean, but I don't expect that many people would be impacted by the 720 CP cap I propose when the update 7 is released.

  • Enodoc
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    This is an interesting idea. How would the planned reduction of the amount of XP needed to get the first 100 CPs fit in?
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  • Elijah_Crow
    Elijah_Crow
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    It is actually a good idea. I would only add one suggestion; remove the 12 day cap on enlightened instead of handing out free enlightenment at season starts.

    But what would you do with people who have already progressed far beyond 360 now?

    There is no fair way to handle it, the most fair would be to prevent further progression until the start of the next season, but even that is harsh.

    People who already progressed far beyond 360 WORKED for it with their own hard work and dedicating their OWN TIME to it. I dont see any reason to do anything with it.

    Unless you enjoy poking your nose into someones else buissnes?


    Your character strength in PvP is everyone else's business. Particularly those that encounter you.
  • Drizzt
    Drizzt
    Soul Shriven
    You could also just block the number of champion point someone can invest so if you do your season system someone who have more than the season number cp would still gain them but not able to spend them. So for this season everyone can invest only 360 points or 720 for next season.

    So everyone still get rewarded but bonus are unlocked later, and progression is not just stopped for max season cp points players.
    Drizzt - DK DPS/Tank v14 Drizzt Daermon - Templar Heal v14 Wulfgar Beorngar - Nightblade Dps lvl38 S'renji
  • Elijah_Crow
    Elijah_Crow
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    The idea has merit and allows players to stay within a range of each other. The issue is how to implement a content catch up system. Someone with 700 cp has soloed DSA.

    This will be artificially inflating the power of the average player to above what the content is built for. I would prefer an artificial cap and allow time for other players to catch up naturally and never reward them with additional flat CP. Reward people below the threshold for the season with permanent enlightenment but never just hand it out.
  • Rinmaethodain
    Rinmaethodain
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    It is actually a good idea. I would only add one suggestion; remove the 12 day cap on enlightened instead of handing out free enlightenment at season starts.

    But what would you do with people who have already progressed far beyond 360 now?

    There is no fair way to handle it, the most fair would be to prevent further progression until the start of the next season, but even that is harsh.

    People who already progressed far beyond 360 WORKED for it with their own hard work and dedicating their OWN TIME to it. I dont see any reason to do anything with it.

    Unless you enjoy poking your nose into someones else buissnes?


    Your character strength in PvP is everyone else's business. Particularly those that encounter you.

    So this is how you counter people in PVP? You find out stuff about thier character, what makes them strong and then you demand it to be nerfed so then you can kill them without problem? How honorable.
  • SugaComa
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    Why not just have the champions points only effect PvE ... That way the game remains balance for PVP and PvE its your choice to make the content easier or not by usjusingnv them.
  • TequilaFire
    TequilaFire
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    It is actually a good idea. I would only add one suggestion; remove the 12 day cap on enlightened instead of handing out free enlightenment at season starts.

    But what would you do with people who have already progressed far beyond 360 now?

    There is no fair way to handle it, the most fair would be to prevent further progression until the start of the next season, but even that is harsh.

    People who already progressed far beyond 360 WORKED for it with their own hard work and dedicating their OWN TIME to it. I dont see any reason to do anything with it.

    Unless you enjoy poking your nose into someones else buissnes?


    Your character strength in PvP is everyone else's business. Particularly those that encounter you.

    Well of course it is, this is the whole point of character progression.

  • trimsic_ESO
    trimsic_ESO
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    Enodoc wrote: »
    This is an interesting idea. How would the planned reduction of the amount of XP needed to get the first 100 CPs fit in?
    Well, if everyone starts season #2 (update 7) with at least 180 CPs (could be tuned down) then we don't need any reduction of XP needed to get the first 100 CPs anymore.
  • trimsic_ESO
    trimsic_ESO
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    Drizzt wrote: »
    You could also just block the number of champion point someone can invest so if you do your season system someone who have more than the season number cp would still gain them but not able to spend them. So for this season everyone can invest only 360 points or 720 for next season.

    So everyone still get rewarded but bonus are unlocked later, and progression is not just stopped for max season cp points players.

    Well I would prefer a fresh new start for everybody when the season begins. So I would prefer that people don't earn any CP when they reach the previous season's cap.

  • Elijah_Crow
    Elijah_Crow
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    It is actually a good idea. I would only add one suggestion; remove the 12 day cap on enlightened instead of handing out free enlightenment at season starts.

    But what would you do with people who have already progressed far beyond 360 now?

    There is no fair way to handle it, the most fair would be to prevent further progression until the start of the next season, but even that is harsh.

    People who already progressed far beyond 360 WORKED for it with their own hard work and dedicating their OWN TIME to it. I dont see any reason to do anything with it.

    Unless you enjoy poking your nose into someones else buissnes?


    Your character strength in PvP is everyone else's business. Particularly those that encounter you.

    So this is how you counter people in PVP? You find out stuff about thier character, what makes them strong and then you demand it to be nerfed so then you can kill them without problem? How honorable.

    @MaximusDargus


    This isn't about honor in combat or your ego.

    We are talking about game mechanics and how they effect everyone. I don't care if you have 100 CPs or 1000 CPs, it's relevant to the conversation and how character strength imbalance can effect the game.
  • Hiero_Glyph
    Hiero_Glyph
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    It is actually a good idea. I would only add one suggestion; remove the 12 day cap on enlightened instead of handing out free enlightenment at season starts.

    But what would you do with people who have already progressed far beyond 360 now?

    There is no fair way to handle it, the most fair would be to prevent further progression until the start of the next season, but even that is harsh.

    People who already progressed far beyond 360 WORKED for it with their own hard work and dedicating their OWN TIME to it. I dont see any reason to do anything with it.

    Unless you enjoy poking your nose into someones else buissnes?

    A CP cap would be universal and affect everyone the same. No CP are being removed and when the cap is increased the player would unlock every CP they earned. The only change is that all players are given a chance to grind at a much fairer pace and hardcore grinders that exploited the system will just have to wait a bit longer to unlock their full potential. Here's an idea, with all the time you spent grinding now you can actually play for fun while you wait for the CP cap increase.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    or just have a simple xp curve for cp gain.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


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  • suelothvar
    suelothvar
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    All I see is "whine whine wine, give me free cp for doing nothing"

    People played and earned the cp they have, giving them a cap to remove there reason to play as a veiled attempt at balance is sad. You want cp to earn them, don't expect free ones.
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  • trimsic_ESO
    trimsic_ESO
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    suelothvar wrote: »
    All I see is "whine whine wine, give me free cp for doing nothing"

    People played and earned the cp they have, giving them a cap to remove there reason to play as a veiled attempt at balance is sad. You want cp to earn them, don't expect free ones.

    People who play the more would still have more CPs. It's just that we must not forget the new comers or those who play less, otherwise there won't be a lot of people left in Cyrodiil. You know Highlander: at the end only one remains.

    Adding a season system to the game, with a min-max range of CPs at each season, is a quick win-win for everybody in the mid / long term, you included.
  • ragespell
    ragespell
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    SugaComa wrote: »
    Why not just have the champions points only effect PvE ... That way the game remains balance for PVP and PvE its your choice to make the content easier or not by usjusingnv them.

    because we can't have a balanced and engaging pve, if there are people with 1000 cp and people with 50.
    It would boring or impossible for the majority of players
  • wrathofrraath
    wrathofrraath
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    None of this would of happened if ZOS implemented their enlightenment system in the way it was originally intended, gain enlightenment while your in towns idling, offline, or on a non-vet alt. They did not and these are the consequences.
    Edited by wrathofrraath on July 24, 2015 4:07AM
    Vokul Lovaas - V16 Magicka Dragonknight
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  • trimsic_ESO
    trimsic_ESO
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    During the last ESO live - Imperial City Special: Live Q&A - ZOS said that there could be a CP cap for each new DLC. If this indeed goes live, it will be a good news for those who would like ESO to be more balanced while keeping a great progression system for all our characters !
  • PBpsy
    PBpsy
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    This game is almost the same. I have left for 4 months and when i returned I just found out that I need to grind for about 2 weeks to get back to the power level I was before. If I leave now and be back in 3 months It would take me a couple of weeks to get to the same power level.
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