This sums up the ZOS opinion on exploits.

TheElementalPlatypus · July 2015

With half of people hating exploits, the other half (myself included) using them as they come (take your problems up with the devs) I think we can all agree on something. If they weren't there and hotfixed or taken care of we wouldnt have something to flame or argue about.

We wouldnt have a few unnamed people running around being raid bosses. Its clear they can because they hotfix xp exploits faster than a rocket, but yet it seems some of the more or less gamebreaking exploits, and some less gamebreaking ones, are left alone, sometimes even over multiple major patches.

Taken directly from a thread about a few unnamed people we all know.

If you take them so serious then why are all these things still in the game.

Zenimax you could save yourself so much trouble with these threads your closing if you just fixed what people wanted fixed, something as gamebreaking (not talking small little inner light and mundus stone bugs, so dont be mistaken) as what is going on, you wouldnt have so many people calling it out.

timidobserver · July 2015

Honestly, they plug exploits in every patch. They just don't put that in the patch notes usually. Some people are aware of the one that was fixed in this week's patch. Though I can agree that it would be nice if they got them fixed faster.

ThyIronFist · July 2015

[snip]

The guy in EU that got like 12 million AP instantly or whatever exactly happened on that day still roams around freely and from what I've heard was offered name changes from ZOS. I mean [snip]
[edited for bashing & profanity bypass]

Grampa_Smurf · July 2015

Lets face it some of the stuff players call exploits are just a side effect of game mechanics, some are cool and others should just be taken out of the game ( like the light attacks are used for cancelling animations used in macros ). But the one that I see DKs use jumping over into keeps, one hand it's a cool mechanic but the side effect it just happened on some keeps there are places they can use it to jump in. Now I really have no problem with this as it brings another element to the game and after all this is war and war calls for some out of the box thinking.

BTW I don't have a DK

Erock25 · July 2015

Grampa_Smurf wrote: »

Lets face it some of the stuff players call exploits are just a side effect of game mechanics, some are cool and others should just be taken out of the game ( like the light attacks are used for cancelling animations used in macros ). But the one that I see DKs use jumping over into keeps, one hand it's a cool mechanic but the side effect it just happened on some keeps there are places they can use it to jump in. Now I really have no problem with this as it brings another element to the game and after all this is war and war calls for some out of the box thinking.

BTW I don't have a DK

Okay with DK getting into keeps without taking down walls but not okay with light attack weaving.... smh.

Alcast · July 2015

To get attention you have to follow this procedure:

1. Report bug/exploit ingame via bugreport
2. wait 1-2weeks and see if it gets fixed
3. Create a FOrum thread about it and show how it works
> If the thread gets deleted then it will be fixed quite fast
5. If not, post your thread in other forums like tamrielfoundry and reddit where they cant delete it.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

SC0TY999 · July 2015

Alcast wrote: »

To get attention you have to follow this procedure:

1. Report bug/exploit ingame via bugreport
2. wait 1-2weeks and see if it gets fixed
3. Create a FOrum thread about it and show how it works
> If the thread gets deleted then it will be fixed quite fast
5. If not, post your thread in other forums like tamrielfoundry and reddit where they cant delete it.

[snip]

Also you forgot about the block standard e-mail response after reporting a cheater that states "You can put this player on ignore" LOL

[edited to remove quote]

xaraan · July 2015

I'm going to let you in on a secret. Sure, ZoS cares about a lot of the stuff we complain about. What they don't have is a sense of urgency to fix any of it because they don't understand people that play the game more than casually a couple times a week.

I mean, look at their "playtesters" that ran IC on the last ESO Live. They were talking about having no tank, but missing the fact that every ultimate they dropped never had a chance to do much to the boss because they all ran around like chickens with their heads cut off. Half the time they were just doing heavy attacks and not using abilities. God only knows what gear they had. Anyway, this is what they think of the average ESO player.

They test lag out by having bots spam abilities that probably aren't champion leveled or moving around or using skills at the rate player use them or wearing gear most players are wearing (I'm betting) and think that is sufficient to determine that lag is going away.

So I don't think they wrap their heads around how big of an issue allowing exploits to continue can be day-to-day. For them it's just a patch cycle of weeks going by while they work on other stuff. For most dedicated players, it's a problem every single time they log in to play the game every single day and they don't connect with that. I mean, let's face it, when there is a known exploiter (that they've been told of from multiple sources) and that every player knows about and they continue to play for months with no issue, you know they aren't going to prioritize fixing other less crazy exploits. They just don't see them as important as we think they should be. Personally, I think any known exploit should be hotfixed asap, but that's me. It's a game of competition and I think fairness should be the highest priority for something like that.

Junipus · July 2015

I'm sure on top of everything they simply don't know how to fix things too.

I can't remember but I have a sneaky suspicion that they were meant to have fixed the ambush inside keeps "exploit" that people were doing, yet I'm still able to do it accidentally on a regular basis. I say accidentally as I'm trying to gap close and kill before they get in, but that doesn't always time right.

JTorus · July 2015

This about sums it up, a canned response from a forum mod Someone so detached from the actual game development process that that almost have no credibility to speak on its behalf. This guy's job is to keep the peace, and the way the forum mods handle some of the threads, it only encourages distrust between users and ZOS.

They shut down the thread, this time on the naming and shaming rule, yet all the posts are still there, visible to anyone browsing the forums. Rather than edit the posts and [redact] the names, allowing a perfectly valid conversation to continue they close the thread so 3 or 4 more like it can manifest elsewhere. Sometimes I really wonder if they aren't a little heavy handed with a personal vendetta.

I would rather see them join the conversation, comment and correct where needed, and allow it to continue.

Tripwyr · July 2015

Alcast wrote: »

To get attention you have to follow this procedure:

1. Report bug/exploit ingame via bugreport
2. wait 1-2weeks and see if it gets fixed
3. Create a FOrum thread about it and show how it works
> If the thread gets deleted then it will be fixed quite fast
5. If not, post your thread in other forums like tamrielfoundry and reddit where they cant delete it.

[snip]

[snip] I'm getting tired of seeing the same player who has been abusing it for over 12 months with no consequences.

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm sure on top of everything they simply don't know how to fix things too.

I can't remember but I have a sneaky suspicion that they were meant to have fixed the ambush inside keeps "exploit" that people were doing, yet I'm still able to do it accidentally on a regular basis. I say accidentally as I'm trying to gap close and kill before they get in, but that doesn't always time right.

This is a very different issue than the one they fixed. The method you are referring to only occurs if you ambush a player who is attempting to enter a keep, and your ambush goes through at the same time as they enter the keep. This is a netcode issue.

The one they fixed did not require an opposing player. There was a physical gap in the keep wall through which you could gain line of sight to the guards inside. This enabled you to use ambush through the gap into the keep with no players present.

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

Robbmrp · July 2015

ThyIronFist wrote: »

[snip]

The guy in EU that got like 12 million AP instantly or whatever exactly happened on that day still roams around freely and from what I've heard was offered name changes from ZOS. I mean [snip]

Rather than "punishing" someone for using an exploit, it should be hot fixed immediately so that others can't use it. The problem with the majority of the issues people complain about in the game are things that have been here for months and months on end. Here's an idea @ZOS, if somethings not working as intended, FIX IT in the weekly updates, don't wait till your major update that takes months on end.

[edited to remove quote]

Yonkit · July 2015

Let's face it though, the moderation on these forums amount to little more than a whitewashing of the issues that trouble and annoy players greatly and encourage them to leave. These forums actually detract from the overall quality of the game through the facade of preserving a "pg" forum where no one is named, issues are rarely resolved, and players are banned for colourful displays of personality. This has caused a slow death in these forums, turning what should be a vital space of the exchange of information and ideas into a neutered hole where little is said and nothing is accomplished. You only have to look at the paucity of topics. I check these forums but once or twice a week when I'm at work because to keep up on what anyone is saying takes so little time. I remember when there were the more clever protests and protestations against the moderation of this forum, but even those have died down, probably suffering from the same fatigue that pvp'ers feel about the lag.

What's even worse about this particular issue, is that I've seen a multiplication of this stacked dmg reduction on players as of late. Individuals who were normal targets for combat now have adopted the blinking exploit whereby without blocking they take something 10% of the damage they ought to take. Normally this would be the kind of crucial information that we as players could provide to the administrative team: chronicling our normal dmg vs. observed dmg against these players, listing new players that are finding ways of adopting this exploit, and thus calling attention to a pertinent problem with gameplay that has been a consistent source of grief for players, but sharing information is against this forum's policies. It's as if the CDC refused to let hospitals report cases of outbreak for fear of looking bad (not that a video game is anywhere near as important as life, death, and disease, but simply an analogy for the importance on the spread of information).

We are the front liners of this game, and our position as those who test, scrutinize, and break the game more fully than any play tester or developer could. This puts us in a unique position to provide critical information as well as informed opinions as to how the game works and how it might be improved through further balancing. The obstacle to this taking place is the very avenue where one might expect this sort of dialogue: the forums. And the gatekeepers to improving the flow of information: the moderators.

Emma_Overload · July 2015

ThyIronFist wrote: »

[snip]

The guy in EU that got like 12 million AP instantly or whatever exactly happened on that day still roams around freely and from what I've heard was offered name changes from ZOS. I mean [snip]

The reason that "guy in EU that got like 12 million AP instantly or whatever exactly happened on that day still roams around freely" is because no one could prove he "exploited" on purpose, and all the available evidence indicated that he just blindly stumbled onto a bug that resulted in a lucky windfall.

As I pointed out at the time... [snip] was he supposed do? Give the AP back? How?

[snip]
[edited for baiting, profanity bypass & to remove quote]

ToRelax · July 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

[snip]

The guy in EU that got like 12 million AP instantly or whatever exactly happened on that day still roams around freely and from what I've heard was offered name changes from ZOS. I mean [snip]

The reason that "guy in EU that got like 12 million AP instantly or whatever exactly happened on that day still roams around freely" is because no one could prove he "exploited" on purpose, and all the available evidence indicated that he just blindly stumbled onto a bug that resulted in a lucky windfall.

As I pointed out at the time... [snip] was he supposed do? Give the AP back? How?

[snip]

No one would care if ZOS just took the AP back and fixed the bug, shall he get another name, why not.
But giving him a name change instead of correcting anything is unacceptable.

[edited to remove quote]

dsalter · July 2015

of all the MMO's i'v played in the past ESO wins the grand prize of terrible priorities, things stay majorly broken for far to long

i was disgusted with the fact the patch only fixed instantly respawning pigs and a few np's who also insta respawned in lowbie area's... weak...

Lava_Croft · July 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

[snip]

The guy in EU that got like 12 million AP instantly or whatever exactly happened on that day still roams around freely and from what I've heard was offered name changes from ZOS. I mean [snip]

The reason that "guy in EU that got like 12 million AP instantly or whatever exactly happened on that day still roams around freely" is because no one could prove he "exploited" on purpose, and all the available evidence indicated that he just blindly stumbled onto a bug that resulted in a lucky windfall.

As I pointed out at the time... [snip] was he supposed do? Give the AP back? How?

[snip]

No one would care if ZOS just took the AP back and fixed the bug, shall he get another name, why not.
But giving him a name change instead of correcting anything is unacceptable.

The guy himself states he does lot like his feeling of character progression being taken away by 'giving' him this AP and corresponding PvP Rank.

[edited to remove quote]

TheElementalPlatypus · July 2015

ZOS its one thing to make us pay for us to beta test for you, its another to actually fix what we find.

nuff said

Aunatar · July 2015

SC0TY999 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

To get attention you have to follow this procedure:

1. Report bug/exploit ingame via bugreport
2. wait 1-2weeks and see if it gets fixed
3. Create a FOrum thread about it and show how it works
> If the thread gets deleted then it will be fixed quite fast
5. If not, post your thread in other forums like tamrielfoundry and reddit where they cant delete it.

[snip]

Also you forgot about the block standard e-mail response after reporting a cheater that states "You can put this player on ignore" LOL

THIS!
They are driving me crazy with those mails!!!

[edited to remove quote]

k2blader · July 2015

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

With half of people hating exploits, the other half (myself included) using them as they come (take your problems up with the devs) I think we can all agree on something. If they weren't there and hotfixed or taken care of we wouldnt have something to flame or argue about.

The bolded part: Erggg. -_-

The last sentence: Agree, excepting room for sometimes legit arguments over class balance. :-)

This game's PvP would be so much fun if the bugs were fixed fast. Even with CPs in play as they are now, it'd be a kajillion times better without exploiters.

Tripwyr · July 2015

Raizin wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

[snip]

The guy in EU that got like 12 million AP instantly or whatever exactly happened on that day still roams around freely and from what I've heard was offered name changes from ZOS. I mean [snip]

[snip]

He got 12M AP all at once, getting to Warlord requires 40.9M. You're telling me he was given 12M AP by a bug and then earned over 2M/day for 14 days to get his Warlord rank? TBH, that is impressive and I'd happily give him Grand Overlord for that feat.

How about instead of harassing somebody who was randomly afflicted by a bug completely out of his control, we focus on the people who are allowing players who actively exploit: ZOS.

[edited to remove quote]

Erondil · July 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

[snip]

The guy in EU that got like 12 million AP instantly or whatever exactly happened on that day still roams around freely and from what I've heard was offered name changes from ZOS. I mean [snip]

The reason that "guy in EU that got like 12 million AP instantly or whatever exactly happened on that day still roams around freely" is because no one could prove he "exploited" on purpose, and all the available evidence indicated that he just blindly stumbled onto a bug that resulted in a lucky windfall.

As I pointed out at the time... [snip] was he supposed do? Give the AP back? How?

[snip]

There is a thread about him with a screenshot, he gained 18M AP in few seconds and you can really think it wasnt an exploit/bug? Revert his char so he doesnt have AP or alliance ranks, thats what zos is supposed to do. [snip]

[edited for bashing & to remove quote]

Erondil · July 2015

Tripwyr wrote: »

Raizin wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

[snip]

The guy in EU that got like 12 million AP instantly or whatever exactly happened on that day still roams around freely and from what I've heard was offered name changes from ZOS. I mean [snip]

[snip]

He got 12M AP all at once, getting to Warlord requires 40.9M. You're telling me he was given 12M AP by a bug and then earned over 2M/day for 14 days to get his Warlord rank? TBH, that is impressive and I'd happily give him Grand Overlord for that feat.

How about instead of harassing somebody who was randomly afflicted by a bug completely out of his control, we focus on the people who are allowing players who actively exploit: ZOS.

No he got 18M ap in few seconds and appeared in the first place of leaderboard he even wanted to be emp.... then he understood everybody and his mum would understand he's exploiting if he stayed on the leaderboard, so he left the camp. But it doesnt mean he didnt exploited some more AP, who knows.. Also he sold his account the day after.

[edited to remove quote]