Remove Momentum's Morph Rally to increase viability for other weapon class's.

GreenSoup2HoT · July 2015

Right now, the sustain generated from Rally leave's DW + Shield/Sword user's very out matched. You could use Vigor to compensate for not having Rally, however 2 hand user's can utilize both to have unmatched sustain.

In my opinion, Rally should just give you a Speed Boost. Not some ridiculous heal once you re-cast. The skill itself already has much to offer.

2 hand user's have it way to good right now.

Zos is going to give DW's hidden blade Major Brutality to resemble 2h's Rally and i feel this is a complete fail. Give other weapon class'es a burst heal, i have potion's for MB.
.
.
Please don't just comment Nerf-Beggar and other garbage.

PBpsy · July 2015

Leave Rally unchanged

NO more stamina Buffs. Rally is enough. Thanks
Unless you guys agree with a nice self heal on destro staves.

Bloodgharm · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

Dual wield, sword & shield and bow all need some survivability options. Why does 2h get both a burst heal and a respectable damage shield, while those of us that wish to use dw either for looks, rp purposes or for extra set bonus/enchants are left without any survivability?

PBpsy · July 2015

Leave Rally unchanged

Bloodgharm wrote: »

Dual wield, sword & shield and bow all need some survivability options. Why does 2h get both a burst heal and a respectable damage shield, while those of us that wish to use dw either for looks, rp purposes or for extra set bonus/enchants are left without any survivability?

"Choices and consequences."

GreenSoup2HoT · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

PBpsy wrote: »

NO more stamina Buffs. Rally is enough. Thanks
Unless you guys agree with a nice self heal on destro staves.

I wouldn't minding getting rid of Rally to nerf 2h stamina build's. At least this way other weapon class's can feel optional.

GreenSoup2HoT · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

PBpsy wrote: »

Bloodgharm wrote: »

Dual wield, sword & shield and bow all need some survivability options. Why does 2h get both a burst heal and a respectable damage shield, while those of us that wish to use dw either for looks, rp purposes or for extra set bonus/enchants are left without any survivability?

"Choices and consequences."

Where are the consequences for using 2 hand?

Bloodgharm · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

@PBpsy Yes I realize there are consequences, but dw is seriously lacking. Our only heal is broken and doesn't work on a number of mobs. Blood craze HoT should proc regardless of the bleed effect. Aside from that, 2h still seems a bit OP. I wouldn't call for a nerf, I just think that dw should be buffed a tad to get close to that level.

PBpsy · July 2015

Leave Rally unchanged

Bloodgharm wrote: »

@PBpsy Yes I realize there are consequences, but dw is seriously lacking. Our only heal is broken and doesn't work on a number of mobs. Blood craze HoT should proc regardless of the bleed effect. Aside from that, 2h still seems a bit OP. I wouldn't call for a nerf, I just think that dw should be buffed a tad to get close to that level.

You got your class abilities, a ranged attack and the best AOE in the entire game. YOu have more option for damage avoidance with DW.

Anyway this is pointless considering that Vigor for(almost) everyone is coming soon to a patch near you.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Bloodgharm wrote: »

Dual wield, sword & shield and bow all need some survivability options. Why does 2h get both a burst heal and a respectable damage shield, while those of us that wish to use dw either for looks, rp purposes or for extra set bonus/enchants are left without any survivability?

"Choices and consequences."

Where are the consequences for using 2 hand?

Crappy AOE. No ranged attack.

Emma_Overload · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

""2 hand user's have it way to good right now."

LOL, no they don't. This is classic nerf-beggar logic.

GreenSoup2HoT · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

""2 hand user's have it way to good right now."

LOL, no they don't. This is classic nerf-beggar logic.

Nerf beggar? I want to see more build diversity in pvp. All i see are 2 hand user's everywhere and it's all because of Rally.

Bloodgharm · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

I still think that rally is pretty OP atm. You get a burst heal+HoT+MB buff all without having to enter combat. Even the MB buff they're supposedly giving to Flying Blade can't be used outside of combat for awesome sneak attacks. I still hold that they should fix Blood craze. You don't see other healing abilities that don't work if you're fighting certain monsters. If they fixed, I wouldn't have a problem with not having a burst heal. I understand there are tradeoffs, but I think the gap between the 2 weapon types is too large.

Zsymon · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

Agreed, nerf-beggar logic. 2H is not too strong, DW is simply too weak.

I would suggest turning Blade Cloak into a stamina based damage shield instead, and improving Absorb Magic, that way you get a decent alternative to 2H.

Now both block and dodge roll is being removed as a viable defense, the last thing stamina needs is more nerfs. If anything DW and Sword&Shield need to be buffed to become viable.

I also suggest improving Bracing from 20% to 50%, to counter the massive overnerf to blocking and stop every tank in the game from quitting their role.

MrGhosty · July 2015

Leave Rally unchanged

I think the reasoning is that each weapon type offers something a little different so you have trade offs. 2h is slower and you only get one weapon, whereas DW lets you get extra set bonuses same as with sword and shield. sword and shield also has a pretty decent bubble/shield ability so every weapon has a downside and an upside.

GreenSoup2HoT · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

Zsymon wrote: »

Agreed, nerf-beggar logic. 2H is not too strong, DW is simply too weak.

I wouldn't say DW's damage is weak, they just have no sustain which make's them weak.

Zsymon · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

Agreed, nerf-beggar logic. 2H is not too strong, DW is simply too weak.

I wouldn't say DW is weak, they just have no sustain which make's them weak.

Isn't that the same, if there's anything that makes DW weak, doesn't that mean DW is weak? Weird semantics.

GreenSoup2HoT · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

Zsymon wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

Agreed, nerf-beggar logic. 2H is not too strong, DW is simply too weak.

I wouldn't say DW is weak, they just have no sustain which make's them weak.

Isn't that the same, if there's anything that makes DW weak, doesn't that mean DW is weak? Weird semantics.

Dw shine's in quick burst's. If your enemy survive's your burst then you will most likely loose to player's who have more sustain. Dw's lack of sustain make's them weak.

ill edit.

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

At this point I feel that using any other weapon type is useless, even 1hand and shield for defense over 2 handers, the heal/heal over time reduces more damage then a shield block making shield useless for defense, the only thing shield has over 2hand is spell reflect and if you are a 2hand DK you really can do without due to reflecting scales.

I hate nerfs so I don't want 2hand rally nerfed I want the other weapon types buffed, 1hand/shield needs a heal over time of some sort, DW needs to let bloodcraze work on all mobs like a self hot buff when cast, as of now I tank vet dungs using a 2hander and take less damage then using a 1hand/shield and as for DW that weapon skill is useless for both defense and DPS, DW is only useful for aoe champ point farming weak mobs.

GreenSoup2HoT · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO wrote: »

At this point I feel that using any other weapon type is useless, even 1hand and shield for defense over 2 handers, the heal/heal over time reduces more damage then a shield block making shield useless for defense, the only thing shield has over 2hand is spell reflect and if you are a 2hand DK you really can do without due to reflecting scales.

I hate nerfs so I don't want 2hand rally nerfed I want the other weapon types buffed, 1hand/shield needs a heal over time of some sort, DW needs to let bloodcraze work on all mobs like a self hot buff when cast, as of now I tank vet dungs using a 2hander and take less damage then using a 1hand/shield and as for DW that weapon skill is useless for both defense and DPS, DW is only useful for aoe champ point farming weak mobs.

Thank you, someone who give's real thought into their comment.

No doubt Vigor with help these other two weapon classes but Vigor is not a fix. Just some scotch tape to hang up a picture. The picture will fall eventually and we will be right back here.

I don't want to see nerf's either. However is there are no change's to dw/1h shield lack of burst heal/sustain. Rally defiantly need's a change.

Lynx7386 · July 2015

Leave Rally unchanged

What is with everyone jumping on the 2h witchhunt bandwagon right now? Knock it off already.

2h used to be the worst melee weapon line in the game. It desperately needed the improvements, and you guys are taking things out of proportion here with your claims that it trumps everything else. They're already giving dual wield major brutality, they're cutting vigor down to rank 5, not every weapon type has to be identical.

Dual wield already stomps on 2h for AoE damage and the two are relatively equal for single target. Dual wield has the not-so-insignificant benefit of getting an extra enchantment, an extra trait, and an extra set item bonus slot, or are you whiny little dual wielders completely forgetting about that?

1h/shield is designed to be used exclusively for tanking applications. It wont stand up to the damage of dual wield or 2h, but it offers better defense than either. You can also regenerate 12% of your health for every little spell that is cast your way, regardless of how powerful or weak it is.

I wont deny that dual wield needs some improvement, and it's getting there, but 2h is in need of improvement as well - not more nerfs. 2h is terrible for aoe damage, dual wield is terrible for self healing. Fixes to cleave and blood craze would even things out.

Dont cry nerf every time you perceive some little inequality. If everything were identical, there'd be no point to even having multiple weapon types to choose from.

GiRoSkItSoO · July 2015

Rally is nice.. but its not op. you get once chance to burst heal yourself if its been running long enough. if your skilld you can use it to save your ass. but it wont compare to a templars heals, neither will it act like a win button. prsonally i think heals in this game are out of control as is. and not to mention, any class can decide to run a resto staff and if you spec right you can have a way more reliable and op heal (healing ward). every class has some kind of healing or survivability option in there class ability.. so, i dont see why complain about rally. anyone can choose to use rally. anyone. so no dont nerf an ability cause someone would rather not use it. that's your choice. theres so many abilitys that need to be looked at cause they are broken, dont waist time on one that actually works as intended.

GreenSoup2HoT · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

Lynx7386 wrote: »

What is with everyone jumping on the 2h witchhunt bandwagon right now? Knock it off already.

2h used to be the worst melee weapon line in the game. It desperately needed the improvements, and you guys are taking things out of proportion here with your claims that it trumps everything else. They're already giving dual wield major brutality, they're cutting vigor down to rank 5, not every weapon type has to be identical.

Dual wield already stomps on 2h for AoE damage and the two are relatively equal for single target. Dual wield has the not-so-insignificant benefit of getting an extra enchantment, an extra trait, and an extra set item bonus slot, or are you whiny little dual wielders completely forgetting about that?

1h/shield is designed to be used exclusively for tanking applications. It wont stand up to the damage of dual wield or 2h, but it offers better defense than either. You can also regenerate 12% of your health for every little spell that is cast your way, regardless of how powerful or weak it is.

I wont deny that dual wield needs some improvement, and it's getting there, but 2h is in need of improvement as well - not more nerfs. 2h is terrible for aoe damage, dual wield is terrible for self healing. Fixes to cleave and blood craze would even things out.

Dont cry nerf every time you perceive some little inequality. If everything were identical, there'd be no point to even having multiple weapon types to choose from.

Brawler is not bad for 2h AoE, you get a nice shield with mediocre damage. You can tank dungeon's with it better then 1h shield.

If dw/1h shield dosent get a buff, 2h need's a nerf. That's just my understanding of it. You can't leave thing's the way they are right now and call it balanced.

DW's hidden blade major brutality is just plain aweful. I have potion's for major brutality. I would never consider even using Hidden Blade unless i used a Resto/Destro or double DW. This is a band-aid fix, not even the good kind.

It's literally just Rally that make's 2H so good.

Farorin · July 2015

Leave Rally unchanged

Leave it as is. I use DW and bow as a NB and I get along fine without a self heal.

In fact, I use a different weapon tree with many of my alts and they all work quite well.

Lynx7386 · July 2015

Leave Rally unchanged

Brawler is not bad for 2h AoE, you get a nice shield with mediocre damage. You can tank dungeon's with it better then 1h shield.

Brawler's damage output is pathetic (so is cleave/carve, and neither of those gives you the shield). The damage shield from brawler, on a single target, is pathetic as well. The only time that damage shield comes into actual use is on large AoE packs, and then you're really not doing anything other than getting in the way of the AoE damage dealers who -can- kill the enemies quickly enough to not need a shield.

If dw/1h shield dosent get a buff, 2h need's a nerf. That's just my understanding of it. You can't leave thing's the way they are right now and call it balanced.
...
It's literally just Rally that make's 2H so good.

Do you not see the problem with what you're saying? Momentum/Rally is the -one- thing that makes 2handed a viable skill tree. Take that away, and we're right back where 2handed was at launch - bottom of the damage barrel with nothing to stand out.

DW's hidden blade major brutality is just plain aweful. I have potion's for major brutality. I would never consider even using Hidden Blade unless i used a Resto/Destro or double DW. This is a band-aid fix, not even the good kind.

If you want to use potions for your buff, fine. That's your perogative. Not everyone has that kind of coin or plays an alchemist.

I dont agree with them putting brutality on hidden blade, but the fact that they're giving dual wield the buff at all should be a godsend to most dual wielders. The fact that, after knowing you're going to be getting a major buff to your chosen weapon type, you're sitting here arguing and complaining and calling for nerfs says a lot about your character.

GreenSoup2HoT · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

If they changed rally, what would you like to see to counter this? Increased brawler damage for example?

Steel_Brightblade · July 2015

Leave Rally unchanged

Ready fix food the dial wielders then, take away rally from 2 hander and take away steel tornado from dual wield, oh and while we're at it make it so dual wield and sword and board can only have 1 set item trait and stat boost from the weapon area slots. This all just seems silly as said before all have benefits and downsides. My character has all stamina weapons mastered and I pick and choose depending on what's needed for the job. No reason others can't.

MaxwellC · July 2015

Leave Rally unchanged

Yeah everybody leave 2H alone!

Now on to the more serious posting, I don't see why rally is considered "OP". As many of you already said vigor will be coming to you soon with the next patch (I believe vigor now unlocks at rank 5 instead of 10). 2H definitely needs a better AOE especially for DKs who really lack a nice damage based AoE; at least a ability that has a decent amount of damage being done, that's all I'm asking ZOS... Please!

strikeback1247 · July 2015

Leave Rally unchanged

Vigor will be moved to alliance rank 5 in patch 7. Then every stamina class will have a good heal.

Done.

Bloodgharm · July 2015

Give Dw/Sword and Shield user's a Burst heal (within the Kit, not Vigor) to compensate for Rally

Q

strikeback1247 wrote: »

Vigor will be moved to alliance rank 5 in patch 7. Then every stamina class will have a good heal.

Done.

I've never entered Cyrodiil in this game. I'm not too into pvp, but I'd be willing to put in the effort to get a decent stam based heal out of it. About how much time am I going to spend getting to rank 5 in AvA?

Jar_Ek · July 2015

Create a whole new Morph in place of Rally.

Rally is somewhat too good because of the burst component. However having to add burst heals to everything else doesn't strike me as an option that supports much diversity. With vigour coming down in rank maybe Rally should provide no longer provide a burst heal. Instead it could provide a short term protection buff.

Bfish22090 · July 2015

Create a whole new Morph in place of Rally.

Why do you want to nerf rally? It's the only way most stam builds can sustain and pvp like nirnhoned exploiters, block knights and shield spammers

strikeback1247 · July 2015

Leave Rally unchanged

Bloodgharm wrote: »

Q

strikeback1247 wrote: »

Vigor will be moved to alliance rank 5 in patch 7. Then every stamina class will have a good heal.

Done.

I've never entered Cyrodiil in this game. I'm not too into pvp, but I'd be willing to put in the effort to get a decent stam based heal out of it. About how much time am I going to spend getting to rank 5 in AvA?

Level 5 is easy to obtain for any player. It takes a total of 326400 alliance points to reach this level. A good player can get this in a few days.

To compare: You can now only have vigor if you have level 10 assault in alliance war. This takes a total of 6918400 alliance points to obtain.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Remove Momentum's Morph Rally to increase viability for other weapon class's.

Remove Momentum's Morph Rally to increase viability for other weapon class's. 64 votes