Will we ever see an actual Aggro/Threat System in ESO? Devs please respond.

jflow1b14_ESO · July 2015

I have played several MMO's from as far back as Everquest and even on MUDs. I have yet to actually see an aggro system, which makes combat more complicated, I feel for the tanks in this game. When combat starts I can stand still never use a skill or attack and even be hiding behind a rock (aka no Line of Sight to the mobs when combat starts) I yet still some how get attacked...I have tested this theory several times and yet somehow the mobs instinctively know where I am and come to attack me if there is more than one. That works great for one or 2 mobs yet the pulls in the Dungeons in this game are HUGE...and with no way to actually have aggro vs mobs that means the tank has to go around and put a debuff on every single mob but yet he can't block every attack and blocking doesn't work for attacks made from behind making the healer work harder. What I see is a mess in combat DPS getting hit from ranged mobs since the Tank can't just grab aggro because there is no Aggro to grab. I think it's awesome because it doesn't matter who pulls a group as initially they might attack the puller one time but the other 5-7 mobs run a muck as they choose randomly out of the group to attack even the guy hiding behind the rock and was never actively attacking or using any skills...This confuses me totally, as this is an MMORPG and most may not know what RPG stands for or what actual Role Playing Game is...It's taking the role of a character and though most of us don't actually Role Play it does remove from the game an essence of realism (Granted this is a game after all and not real life but it removes from immersion into the story and setting). Being a veteran RPG player and yes even P&P (Pen and Paper), I could not just have a monster know the wizard was hidng behind that rock over there if the monster never ever seen the wizard...it would remove from the game the total mechanics...being a video game since the dawn of MMORPGs there has been a Aggro/Threat system. I know Bethesda and Zenomax wanted to recreate the wheel here and in some ways they did...and in some ways they failed...trying to remove a system that created cookie cutter class systems created a worse cookie cutter system...Yes I can create a Sorc who wears Plate Mail armor and wields a two-handed sword but the cookie cutter mage over there will out do my sorc in every way and my sorc may never actually be useful until after I respec to the cookie cutter mage. You have your min/max people who have created perfect Damage Dealers and Healers and if you don't spec like them then you don't perform as well as they do...but that aside even in P&P RPGs a warrior/tank character had to get aggro of the monsters via any way possible yet if they couldn't then one of the most vital members of the team takes damage and could die, resulting in group wipe. A aggro/Threat system does not guarantee a tank will grab all the aggro and keep every member of the group safe from attacks (his job is to be beat on not dps) while a healer heals him...(creating aggro/threat towards the healer) the tank has to work harder to keep the aggro then you have the dps who do massive damage (pulling aggro to them). The tanks job is to *** the mob off a him/her and keep it pissed off at him/her...even a half assed aggro system (WoW at it's start before the expansions and all that) had a rudimentary aggro/threat table,( it has since been overhauled and improved though I stopped playing when they broke the game with the first expansion), back on topic though is better than no aggro/threat table. mobs attacking who they choose at random you, even a person standing at the edge of the reset area for the mob which some mobs is quite far and in dungeons it doesn't seem there is a reset area for most mobs...but a mob can break off of the group and run for that person just for *** and giggles it seems even if it's 300 meters away and around 5 corners, that mob knows exactly where he is...adds for more questions than answers...does every mob in ESO have ESP and know where everyone is at all times? I have ranted enough and I know there will be the haters and the followers who flame and or just be less intelligent (CoD has it's huge following of the same people and even make up more than 80% of it's community) and write their opinions here though I am more interested in what The Devs have to say on this matter as they are the ones who matter.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

jflow1b14_ESO wrote: »

I have played several MMO's from as far back as Everquest and even on MUDs. I have yet to actually see an aggro system, which makes combat more complicated, I feel for the tanks in this game. When combat starts I can stand still never use a skill or attack and even be hiding behind a rock (aka no Line of Sight to the mobs when combat starts) I yet still some how get attacked...I have tested this theory several times and yet somehow the mobs instinctively know where I am and come to attack me if there is more than one. That works great for one or 2 mobs yet the pulls in the Dungeons in this game are HUGE...and with no way to actually have aggro vs mobs that means the tank has to go around and put a debuff on every single mob but yet he can't block every attack and blocking doesn't work for attacks made from behind making the healer work harder.

What I see is a mess in combat DPS getting hit from ranged mobs since the Tank can't just grab aggro because there is no Aggro to grab. I think it's awesome because it doesn't matter who pulls a group as initially they might attack the puller one time but the other 5-7 mobs run a muck as they choose randomly out of the group to attack even the guy hiding behind the rock and was never actively attacking or using any skills...This confuses me totally, as this is an MMORPG and most may not know what RPG stands for or what actual Role Playing Game is...It's taking the role of a character and though most of us don't actually Role Play it does remove from the game an essence of realism (Granted this is a game after all and not real life but it removes from immersion into the story and setting).

Being a veteran RPG player and yes even P&P (Pen and Paper), I could not just have a monster know the wizard was hidng behind that rock over there if the monster never ever seen the wizard...it would remove from the game the total mechanics...being a video game since the dawn of MMORPGs there has been a Aggro/Threat system. I know Bethesda and Zenomax wanted to recreate the wheel here and in some ways they did...and in some ways they failed...trying to remove a system that created cookie cutter class systems created a worse cookie cutter system...Yes I can create a Sorc who wears Plate Mail armor and wields a two-handed sword but the cookie cutter mage over there will out do my sorc in every way and my sorc may never actually be useful until after I respec to the cookie cutter mage. You have your min/max people who have created perfect Damage Dealers and Healers and if you don't spec like them then you don't perform as well as they do...but that aside even in P&P RPGs a warrior/tank character had to get aggro of the monsters via any way possible yet if they couldn't then one of the most vital members of the team takes damage and could die, resulting in group wipe.

A aggro/Threat system does not guarantee a tank will grab all the aggro and keep every member of the group safe from attacks (his job is to be beat on not dps) while a healer heals him...(creating aggro/threat towards the healer) the tank has to work harder to keep the aggro then you have the dps who do massive damage (pulling aggro to them). The tanks job is to *** the mob off a him/her and keep it pissed off at him/her...even a half assed aggro system (WoW at it's start before the expansions and all that) had a rudimentary aggro/threat table,( it has since been overhauled and improved though I stopped playing when they broke the game with the first expansion), back on topic though is better than no aggro/threat table. mobs attacking who they choose at random you, even a person standing at the edge of the reset area for the mob which some mobs is quite far and in dungeons it doesn't seem there is a reset area for most mobs...but a mob can break off of the group and run for that person just for *** and giggles it seems even if it's 300 meters away and around 5 corners, that mob knows exactly where he is...adds for more questions than answers...does every mob in ESO have ESP and know where everyone is at all times?

I have ranted enough and I know there will be the haters and the followers who flame and or just be less intelligent (CoD has it's huge following of the same people and even make up more than 80% of it's community) and write their opinions here though I am more interested in what The Devs have to say on this matter as they are the ones who matter.

Insightful post, in all honesty... tanking is extremely, exceedingly easy in this game. With all the complaints about a small tweak to make it tougher announced recently, though, I don't know how much traction making tanking actually dificult to do well would get

.

EDIT: Quick note... it will help a lot to add line breaks and paragraph spacing to your OP. Most people won't read it without, like I did by simply copying/pasting and then adding them after a cursory skimming before actually reading it through

.

PBpsy · July 2015

Holly freaking wall of text Batman.

Lets hope not. It is one of those changes that I see ZOS doing haphazardly to satisfy the whiner base, destroying the game even further. They had already destroyed the ultimate system let's hope they do not destroy the non-derp tanking system next.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

PBpsy wrote: »

Holly freaking wall of text Batman.

Lets hope not. It is one of those changes that I see ZOS doing haphazardly to satisfy the whiner base, destroying the game even further. They had already destroyed the ultimate system let's hope they do not destroy the non-derp tanking system.

Eh... the current tanking system is very much "derp", as you put it. It requires an absolutely minimal amount of effort as agro is simply based on taunting the main monster(s) once every blue moon, and throwing down Caltrops to pick up the adds if needed. Even the small change stopping stamina regeneration while holding down block won't really end up doing a whole lot other than make the learning curve a bit more apparrent for less-experienced tanks.

AlnilamE · July 2015

I've never played another MMO, so this is my first experience in group dungeons.

I actually find the way it works quite fun and challenging. I started mainly as DPS, but have characters that heal and tank as well, and let me tell you, the difference between a good tank and a bad tank in this game is HUGE. If the tank knows what they are doing and who their priority targets should be, the dungeon run is so much smoother.

I have friends who are great tanks and I'm working my way up the skill ladder and I like the way it works. There are some very cool fights to tank in this game.

AlnilamE · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

jflow1b14_ESO wrote: »

I have played several MMO's from as far back as Everquest and even on MUDs. I have yet to actually see an aggro system, which makes combat more complicated, I feel for the tanks in this game. When combat starts I can stand still never use a skill or attack and even be hiding behind a rock (aka no Line of Sight to the mobs when combat starts) I yet still some how get attacked...I have tested this theory several times and yet somehow the mobs instinctively know where I am and come to attack me if there is more than one. That works great for one or 2 mobs yet the pulls in the Dungeons in this game are HUGE...and with no way to actually have aggro vs mobs that means the tank has to go around and put a debuff on every single mob but yet he can't block every attack and blocking doesn't work for attacks made from behind making the healer work harder.

What I see is a mess in combat DPS getting hit from ranged mobs since the Tank can't just grab aggro because there is no Aggro to grab. I think it's awesome because it doesn't matter who pulls a group as initially they might attack the puller one time but the other 5-7 mobs run a muck as they choose randomly out of the group to attack even the guy hiding behind the rock and was never actively attacking or using any skills...This confuses me totally, as this is an MMORPG and most may not know what RPG stands for or what actual Role Playing Game is...It's taking the role of a character and though most of us don't actually Role Play it does remove from the game an essence of realism (Granted this is a game after all and not real life but it removes from immersion into the story and setting).

Being a veteran RPG player and yes even P&P (Pen and Paper), I could not just have a monster know the wizard was hidng behind that rock over there if the monster never ever seen the wizard...it would remove from the game the total mechanics...being a video game since the dawn of MMORPGs there has been a Aggro/Threat system. I know Bethesda and Zenomax wanted to recreate the wheel here and in some ways they did...and in some ways they failed...trying to remove a system that created cookie cutter class systems created a worse cookie cutter system...Yes I can create a Sorc who wears Plate Mail armor and wields a two-handed sword but the cookie cutter mage over there will out do my sorc in every way and my sorc may never actually be useful until after I respec to the cookie cutter mage. You have your min/max people who have created perfect Damage Dealers and Healers and if you don't spec like them then you don't perform as well as they do...but that aside even in P&P RPGs a warrior/tank character had to get aggro of the monsters via any way possible yet if they couldn't then one of the most vital members of the team takes damage and could die, resulting in group wipe.

A aggro/Threat system does not guarantee a tank will grab all the aggro and keep every member of the group safe from attacks (his job is to be beat on not dps) while a healer heals him...(creating aggro/threat towards the healer) the tank has to work harder to keep the aggro then you have the dps who do massive damage (pulling aggro to them). The tanks job is to *** the mob off a him/her and keep it pissed off at him/her...even a half assed aggro system (WoW at it's start before the expansions and all that) had a rudimentary aggro/threat table,( it has since been overhauled and improved though I stopped playing when they broke the game with the first expansion), back on topic though is better than no aggro/threat table. mobs attacking who they choose at random you, even a person standing at the edge of the reset area for the mob which some mobs is quite far and in dungeons it doesn't seem there is a reset area for most mobs...but a mob can break off of the group and run for that person just for *** and giggles it seems even if it's 300 meters away and around 5 corners, that mob knows exactly where he is...adds for more questions than answers...does every mob in ESO have ESP and know where everyone is at all times?

I have ranted enough and I know there will be the haters and the followers who flame and or just be less intelligent (CoD has it's huge following of the same people and even make up more than 80% of it's community) and write their opinions here though I am more interested in what The Devs have to say on this matter as they are the ones who matter.

Insightful post, in all honesty... tanking is extremely, exceedingly easy in this game. With all the complaints about a small tweak to make it tougher announced recently, though, I don't know how much traction making tanking actually dificult to do well would get .

EDIT: Quick note... it will help a lot to add line breaks and paragraph spacing to your OP. Most people won't read it without, like I did by simply copying/pasting and then adding them after a cursory skimming before actually reading it through .

Did we read the same post? Because my take-away was that he thought tanking was too hard because tank cannot hold aggro on all mobs.

Did I read that wrong?

Shunravi · July 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

jflow1b14_ESO wrote: »

I have played several MMO's from as far back as Everquest and even on MUDs. I have yet to actually see an aggro system, which makes combat more complicated, I feel for the tanks in this game. When combat starts I can stand still never use a skill or attack and even be hiding behind a rock (aka no Line of Sight to the mobs when combat starts) I yet still some how get attacked...I have tested this theory several times and yet somehow the mobs instinctively know where I am and come to attack me if there is more than one. That works great for one or 2 mobs yet the pulls in the Dungeons in this game are HUGE...and with no way to actually have aggro vs mobs that means the tank has to go around and put a debuff on every single mob but yet he can't block every attack and blocking doesn't work for attacks made from behind making the healer work harder.

What I see is a mess in combat DPS getting hit from ranged mobs since the Tank can't just grab aggro because there is no Aggro to grab. I think it's awesome because it doesn't matter who pulls a group as initially they might attack the puller one time but the other 5-7 mobs run a muck as they choose randomly out of the group to attack even the guy hiding behind the rock and was never actively attacking or using any skills...This confuses me totally, as this is an MMORPG and most may not know what RPG stands for or what actual Role Playing Game is...It's taking the role of a character and though most of us don't actually Role Play it does remove from the game an essence of realism (Granted this is a game after all and not real life but it removes from immersion into the story and setting).

Being a veteran RPG player and yes even P&P (Pen and Paper), I could not just have a monster know the wizard was hidng behind that rock over there if the monster never ever seen the wizard...it would remove from the game the total mechanics...being a video game since the dawn of MMORPGs there has been a Aggro/Threat system. I know Bethesda and Zenomax wanted to recreate the wheel here and in some ways they did...and in some ways they failed...trying to remove a system that created cookie cutter class systems created a worse cookie cutter system...Yes I can create a Sorc who wears Plate Mail armor and wields a two-handed sword but the cookie cutter mage over there will out do my sorc in every way and my sorc may never actually be useful until after I respec to the cookie cutter mage. You have your min/max people who have created perfect Damage Dealers and Healers and if you don't spec like them then you don't perform as well as they do...but that aside even in P&P RPGs a warrior/tank character had to get aggro of the monsters via any way possible yet if they couldn't then one of the most vital members of the team takes damage and could die, resulting in group wipe.

A aggro/Threat system does not guarantee a tank will grab all the aggro and keep every member of the group safe from attacks (his job is to be beat on not dps) while a healer heals him...(creating aggro/threat towards the healer) the tank has to work harder to keep the aggro then you have the dps who do massive damage (pulling aggro to them). The tanks job is to *** the mob off a him/her and keep it pissed off at him/her...even a half assed aggro system (WoW at it's start before the expansions and all that) had a rudimentary aggro/threat table,( it has since been overhauled and improved though I stopped playing when they broke the game with the first expansion), back on topic though is better than no aggro/threat table. mobs attacking who they choose at random you, even a person standing at the edge of the reset area for the mob which some mobs is quite far and in dungeons it doesn't seem there is a reset area for most mobs...but a mob can break off of the group and run for that person just for *** and giggles it seems even if it's 300 meters away and around 5 corners, that mob knows exactly where he is...adds for more questions than answers...does every mob in ESO have ESP and know where everyone is at all times?

I have ranted enough and I know there will be the haters and the followers who flame and or just be less intelligent (CoD has it's huge following of the same people and even make up more than 80% of it's community) and write their opinions here though I am more interested in what The Devs have to say on this matter as they are the ones who matter.

Insightful post, in all honesty... tanking is extremely, exceedingly easy in this game. With all the complaints about a small tweak to make it tougher announced recently, though, I don't know how much traction making tanking actually dificult to do well would get .

EDIT: Quick note... it will help a lot to add line breaks and paragraph spacing to your OP. Most people won't read it without, like I did by simply copying/pasting and then adding them after a cursory skimming before actually reading it through .

Did we read the same post? Because my take-away was that he thought tanking was too hard because tank cannot hold aggro on all mobs.

Did I read that wrong?

That's how I read it.

Pentegarn · July 2015

jflow1b14_ESO wrote: »

I have played several MMO's from as far back as Everquest and even on MUDs. I have yet to actually see an aggro system, which makes combat more complicated, I feel for the tanks in this game. When combat starts I can stand still never use a skill or attack and even be hiding behind a rock (aka no Line of Sight to the mobs when combat starts) I yet still some how get attacked...I have tested this theory several times and yet somehow the mobs instinctively know where I am and come to attack me if there is more than one. That works great for one or 2 mobs yet the pulls in the Dungeons in this game are HUGE...and with no way to actually have aggro vs mobs that means the tank has to go around and put a debuff on every single mob but yet he can't block every attack and blocking doesn't work for attacks made from behind making the healer work harder. What I see is a mess in combat DPS getting hit from ranged mobs since the Tank can't just grab aggro because there is no Aggro to grab. I think it's awesome because it doesn't matter who pulls a group as initially they might attack the puller one time but the other 5-7 mobs run a muck as they choose randomly out of the group to attack even the guy hiding behind the rock and was never actively attacking or using any skills...This confuses me totally, as this is an MMORPG and most may not know what RPG stands for or what actual Role Playing Game is...It's taking the role of a character and though most of us don't actually Role Play it does remove from the game an essence of realism (Granted this is a game after all and not real life but it removes from immersion into the story and setting). Being a veteran RPG player and yes even P&P (Pen and Paper), I could not just have a monster know the wizard was hidng behind that rock over there if the monster never ever seen the wizard...it would remove from the game the total mechanics...being a video game since the dawn of MMORPGs there has been a Aggro/Threat system. I know Bethesda and Zenomax wanted to recreate the wheel here and in some ways they did...and in some ways they failed...trying to remove a system that created cookie cutter class systems created a worse cookie cutter system...Yes I can create a Sorc who wears Plate Mail armor and wields a two-handed sword but the cookie cutter mage over there will out do my sorc in every way and my sorc may never actually be useful until after I respec to the cookie cutter mage. You have your min/max people who have created perfect Damage Dealers and Healers and if you don't spec like them then you don't perform as well as they do...but that aside even in P&P RPGs a warrior/tank character had to get aggro of the monsters via any way possible yet if they couldn't then one of the most vital members of the team takes damage and could die, resulting in group wipe. A aggro/Threat system does not guarantee a tank will grab all the aggro and keep every member of the group safe from attacks (his job is to be beat on not dps) while a healer heals him...(creating aggro/threat towards the healer) the tank has to work harder to keep the aggro then you have the dps who do massive damage (pulling aggro to them). The tanks job is to *** the mob off a him/her and keep it pissed off at him/her...even a half assed aggro system (WoW at it's start before the expansions and all that) had a rudimentary aggro/threat table,( it has since been overhauled and improved though I stopped playing when they broke the game with the first expansion), back on topic though is better than no aggro/threat table. mobs attacking who they choose at random you, even a person standing at the edge of the reset area for the mob which some mobs is quite far and in dungeons it doesn't seem there is a reset area for most mobs...but a mob can break off of the group and run for that person just for *** and giggles it seems even if it's 300 meters away and around 5 corners, that mob knows exactly where he is...adds for more questions than answers...does every mob in ESO have ESP and know where everyone is at all times? I have ranted enough and I know there will be the haters and the followers who flame and or just be less intelligent (CoD has it's huge following of the same people and even make up more than 80% of it's community) and write their opinions here though I am more interested in what The Devs have to say on this matter as they are the ones who matter.

OMG! My eyes!

http://incredibly.ytmnd.com/

PBpsy · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Holly freaking wall of text Batman.

Lets hope not. It is one of those changes that I see ZOS doing haphazardly to satisfy the whiner base, destroying the game even further. They had already destroyed the ultimate system let's hope they do not destroy the non-derp tanking system.

Eh... the current tanking system is very much "derp", as you put it. It requires an absolutely minimal amount of effort as agro is simply based on taunting the main monster(s) once every blue moon, and throwing down Caltrops to pick up the adds if needed. Even the small change stopping stamina regeneration while holding down block won't really end up doing a whole lot other than make the learning curve a bit more apparrent for less-experienced tanks.

Compared to the many other games where the tank just activates all agro boosting toggles then goes in pushes one button to activate the opening macro that propels his agro meter sky high. after which very few things can make him lose the agro of the entire group.

Yes I prefer this system instead let's all play with the agro netter mini game.

Shunravi · July 2015

PBpsy wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Holly freaking wall of text Batman.

Lets hope not. It is one of those changes that I see ZOS doing haphazardly to satisfy the whiner base, destroying the game even further. They had already destroyed the ultimate system let's hope they do not destroy the non-derp tanking system.

Eh... the current tanking system is very much "derp", as you put it. It requires an absolutely minimal amount of effort as agro is simply based on taunting the main monster(s) once every blue moon, and throwing down Caltrops to pick up the adds if needed. Even the small change stopping stamina regeneration while holding down block won't really end up doing a whole lot other than make the learning curve a bit more apparrent for less-experienced tanks.

Compared to the many other games where the tank just activates all agro boosting toggles then goes in pushes one button to activate the opening macro that propels his agro meter sky high. after which very few things can make him lose the agro of the entire group.

Yes I prefer this system instead let's all play with the agro netter mini game.

Same...

jflow1b14_ESO · July 2015

I apologize for text wall and for some reason it won't give me the option to edit.

Ok so if I get this right...basically the tank is useless and boring...the fight for aggro was always made tanking fun...I may have had it wrong as it seems tanking is overly easy and basically a moron CoD player could do it...it's like 2 button tanking...taunt and through an aoe...yawn...I have played games where WoW being the main one that introduced aggro fights...you could have DPS go ham on the mob but if they were good and well geared they could pull the mob off of the tank...a wrongly placed heal or HoT placed on the tank that ticked right after an aggro dump move for the mob could cause a catastrophic death of healer...

I revise my stance now that still an aggro table would be awesome and yes you have your lame useless tanks/healers/dps that use macros because they would rather yawn their existence away as a blah tank...to me what makes it fun is the fight to keep everyone alive...the healer should never have to heal anyone besides the tank but then again with 2 button tanking you loose everything that brought the element of a fight to a fight.

If I have this correctly...Taunt, Aoe.........a minute later Aoe.....Taunt.......Aoe........group wipe because I fell asleep.

idk · July 2015

jflow1b14_ESO wrote: »

I have played several MMO's from as far back as Everquest and even on MUDs. I have yet to actually see an aggro system, which makes combat more complicated, I feel for the tanks in this game. When combat starts I can stand still never use a skill or attack and even be hiding behind a rock (aka no Line of Sight to the mobs when combat starts) I yet still some how get attacked...I have tested this theory several times and yet somehow the mobs instinctively know where I am and come to attack me if there is more than one. That works great for one or 2 mobs yet the pulls in the Dungeons in this game are HUGE...and with no way to actually have aggro vs mobs that means the tank has to go around and put a debuff on every single mob but yet he can't block every attack and blocking doesn't work for attacks made from behind making the healer work harder. What I see is a mess in combat DPS getting hit from ranged mobs since the Tank can't just grab aggro because there is no Aggro to grab. I think it's awesome because it doesn't matter who pulls a group as initially they might attack the puller one time but the other 5-7 mobs run a muck as they choose randomly out of the group to attack even the guy hiding behind the rock and was never actively attacking or using any skills...This confuses me totally, as this is an MMORPG and most may not know what RPG stands for or what actual Role Playing Game is...It's taking the role of a character and though most of us don't actually Role Play it does remove from the game an essence of realism (Granted this is a game after all and not real life but it removes from immersion into the story and setting). Being a veteran RPG player and yes even P&P (Pen and Paper), I could not just have a monster know the wizard was hidng behind that rock over there if the monster never ever seen the wizard...it would remove from the game the total mechanics...being a video game since the dawn of MMORPGs there has been a Aggro/Threat system. I know Bethesda and Zenomax wanted to recreate the wheel here and in some ways they did...and in some ways they failed...trying to remove a system that created cookie cutter class systems created a worse cookie cutter system...Yes I can create a Sorc who wears Plate Mail armor and wields a two-handed sword but the cookie cutter mage over there will out do my sorc in every way and my sorc may never actually be useful until after I respec to the cookie cutter mage. You have your min/max people who have created perfect Damage Dealers and Healers and if you don't spec like them then you don't perform as well as they do...but that aside even in P&P RPGs a warrior/tank character had to get aggro of the monsters via any way possible yet if they couldn't then one of the most vital members of the team takes damage and could die, resulting in group wipe. A aggro/Threat system does not guarantee a tank will grab all the aggro and keep every member of the group safe from attacks (his job is to be beat on not dps) while a healer heals him...(creating aggro/threat towards the healer) the tank has to work harder to keep the aggro then you have the dps who do massive damage (pulling aggro to them). The tanks job is to *** the mob off a him/her and keep it pissed off at him/her...even a half assed aggro system (WoW at it's start before the expansions and all that) had a rudimentary aggro/threat table,( it has since been overhauled and improved though I stopped playing when they broke the game with the first expansion), back on topic though is better than no aggro/threat table. mobs attacking who they choose at random you, even a person standing at the edge of the reset area for the mob which some mobs is quite far and in dungeons it doesn't seem there is a reset area for most mobs...but a mob can break off of the group and run for that person just for *** and giggles it seems even if it's 300 meters away and around 5 corners, that mob knows exactly where he is...adds for more questions than answers...does every mob in ESO have ESP and know where everyone is at all times? I have ranted enough and I know there will be the haters and the followers who flame and or just be less intelligent (CoD has it's huge following of the same people and even make up more than 80% of it's community) and write their opinions here though I am more interested in what The Devs have to say on this matter as they are the ones who matter.

For starters, I didn't read the entire OP as it is a very long single paragraph and lost my interest fast. Sorry.

Second, there is an aggro system in the game already. While I think it's overly simplistic, it is a nice change from aoe taunt boring tanking so many games have. Tanking in most games is mind numbing boring and eso actually gives tanks something to do.

It seemed that you indicated ESO tanking made things more difficult. My guess is you may be trying to tank as you did in other games. Set your mind free. Don't worry about tanking everything. Tanks the biggest and baddest and work to bring mele into ranged and you will do fine.

Additionally, much of the game is so easy to tank that a tank isn't needed much of the time. Basically your group should be fine blocking and dodging damage.

Funkopotamus · July 2015

jflow1b14_ESO wrote: »

I have played several MMO's from as far back as Everquest and even on MUDs. I have yet to actually see an aggro system, which makes combat more complicated, I feel for the tanks in this game. When combat starts I can stand still never use a skill or attack and even be hiding behind a rock (aka no Line of Sight to the mobs when combat starts) I yet still some how get attacked...I have tested this theory several times and yet somehow the mobs instinctively know where I am and come to attack me if there is more than one. That works great for one or 2 mobs yet the pulls in the Dungeons in this game are HUGE...and with no way to actually have aggro vs mobs that means the tank has to go around and put a debuff on every single mob but yet he can't block every attack and blocking doesn't work for attacks made from behind making the healer work harder. What I see is a mess in combat DPS getting hit from ranged mobs since the Tank can't just grab aggro because there is no Aggro to grab. I think it's awesome because it doesn't matter who pulls a group as initially they might attack the puller one time but the other 5-7 mobs run a muck as they choose randomly out of the group to attack even the guy hiding behind the rock and was never actively attacking or using any skills...This confuses me totally, as this is an MMORPG and most may not know what RPG stands for or what actual Role Playing Game is...It's taking the role of a character and though most of us don't actually Role Play it does remove from the game an essence of realism (Granted this is a game after all and not real life but it removes from immersion into the story and setting). Being a veteran RPG player and yes even P&P (Pen and Paper), I could not just have a monster know the wizard was hidng behind that rock over there if the monster never ever seen the wizard...it would remove from the game the total mechanics...being a video game since the dawn of MMORPGs there has been a Aggro/Threat system. I know Bethesda and Zenomax wanted to recreate the wheel here and in some ways they did...and in some ways they failed...trying to remove a system that created cookie cutter class systems created a worse cookie cutter system...Yes I can create a Sorc who wears Plate Mail armor and wields a two-handed sword but the cookie cutter mage over there will out do my sorc in every way and my sorc may never actually be useful until after I respec to the cookie cutter mage. You have your min/max people who have created perfect Damage Dealers and Healers and if you don't spec like them then you don't perform as well as they do...but that aside even in P&P RPGs a warrior/tank character had to get aggro of the monsters via any way possible yet if they couldn't then one of the most vital members of the team takes damage and could die, resulting in group wipe. A aggro/Threat system does not guarantee a tank will grab all the aggro and keep every member of the group safe from attacks (his job is to be beat on not dps) while a healer heals him...(creating aggro/threat towards the healer) the tank has to work harder to keep the aggro then you have the dps who do massive damage (pulling aggro to them). The tanks job is to *** the mob off a him/her and keep it pissed off at him/her...even a half assed aggro system (WoW at it's start before the expansions and all that) had a rudimentary aggro/threat table,( it has since been overhauled and improved though I stopped playing when they broke the game with the first expansion), back on topic though is better than no aggro/threat table. mobs attacking who they choose at random you, even a person standing at the edge of the reset area for the mob which some mobs is quite far and in dungeons it doesn't seem there is a reset area for most mobs...but a mob can break off of the group and run for that person just for *** and giggles it seems even if it's 300 meters away and around 5 corners, that mob knows exactly where he is...adds for more questions than answers...does every mob in ESO have ESP and know where everyone is at all times? I have ranted enough and I know there will be the haters and the followers who flame and or just be less intelligent (CoD has it's huge following of the same people and even make up more than 80% of it's community) and write their opinions here though I am more interested in what The Devs have to say on this matter as they are the ones who matter.

"Hrgggghmmmppp

/Chews his own foot off and limps away...

AlnilamE · July 2015

A DPS can pull aggro off the tank if their DPS is high enough.

And you should really try tanking AA one of these days. :-)

Erock25 · July 2015

The aggro system in this game is whack. Tanking used to be one of my favorite things in Age of Conan. I actually had to work as a tank and work hard to hold aggro against high DPS and raids (basically trials for ESO) you would need 4-5 tanks swapping aggro so you had to learn to work with other tanks and how much aggro they pulled so you could have good swaps all while still holding it off of DPS. This is the reason why I don't care for this games PVE at all. I think I'll reinstall AoC now.

Jennifur_Vultee · July 2015

Tanking in ESO to me isn't, "I cast an agro net and everything pounds on me." To me its more strategic, what's the biggest threats? How many mobs can I lock down? How many can I/do I need to slow down? While I'm tanking the main boss and locking down and slows to mobs that gives the FPS time to deal with them so we can all focus on the main boss.

jflow1b14_ESO · July 2015

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

For starters, I didn't read the entire OP as it is a very long single paragraph and lost my interest fast. Sorry.

Second, there is an aggro system in the game already. While I think it's overly simplistic, it is a nice change from aoe taunt boring tanking so many games have. Tanking in most games is mind numbing boring and eso actually gives tanks something to do.

It seemed that you indicated ESO tanking made things more difficult. My guess is you may be trying to tank as you did in other games. Set your mind free. Don't worry about tanking everything. Tanks the biggest and baddest and work to bring mele into ranged and you will do fine.

Additionally, much of the game is so easy to tank that a tank isn't needed much of the time. Basically your group should be fine blocking and dodging damage.

The thing is as I stated above I changed my stance once it was informed to me that tanking is dual and boring in this game vs others where you work with aggro in this one I have yet to actually see any aggro like table period.

jflow1b14_ESO · July 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

The aggro system in this game is whack. Tanking used to be one of my favorite things in Age of Conan. I actually had to work as a tank and work hard to hold aggro against high DPS and raids (basically trials for ESO) you would need 4-5 tanks swapping aggro so you had to learn to work with other tanks and how much aggro they pulled so you could have good swaps all while still holding it off of DPS. This is the reason why I don't care for this games PVE at all. I think I'll reinstall AoC now.

I holy agree as I stated above the fun of tanking is the fight for control not a button mashing mess or worse off the macro users or even worse the 2 button tanking games....

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

A DPS can pull aggro off the tank if their DPS is high enough.

And you should really try tanking AA one of these days. :-)

No, they can't. Taunts are binary unless someone else uses one: it is either taunted and cannot/will not de-agro unless the taunt is allowed to expire, or it isn't, in ESO.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

PBpsy wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Holly freaking wall of text Batman.

Lets hope not. It is one of those changes that I see ZOS doing haphazardly to satisfy the whiner base, destroying the game even further. They had already destroyed the ultimate system let's hope they do not destroy the non-derp tanking system.

Eh... the current tanking system is very much "derp", as you put it. It requires an absolutely minimal amount of effort as agro is simply based on taunting the main monster(s) once every blue moon, and throwing down Caltrops to pick up the adds if needed. Even the small change stopping stamina regeneration while holding down block won't really end up doing a whole lot other than make the learning curve a bit more apparrent for less-experienced tanks.

Compared to the many other games where the tank just activates all agro boosting toggles then goes in pushes one button to activate the opening macro that propels his agro meter sky high. after which very few things can make him lose the agro of the entire group.

Yes I prefer this system instead let's all play with the agro netter mini game.

That's wholly incorrect. That's how it works in ESO... tanking involves simply pressing taunt once every ~10-11 seconds to account for lag or LoS/hitbox goofing on you, to hold agro in a one-button binary state. The only difficulty comes in from the game's frustrating targeting system at times where large hitbox enemies such as the axes in AA or other areas make you fight the UI and the tab-priority-target system, not the gameplay. In most tanking systems, you have to balance mitigation with threat, which is composed of damage and agro boosts, to hold the bosses onto you.

Goof your damage up and the DPS can and will pull threat and get killed as a result in those games. In this one, that is completely negated and makes it trivial but for the bugs/flaws with targeting game-wide. In other games, the bosses hit for non-trivial amounts and you need to actually use mitigation skills to not die. In this one... well, you don't need to do much on that front nowadays

. Hence, the trend/meta has gone completely over to nearly just dps'ing with a taunt on your bar. It's droll and far worse than the tanking systems seen in EQ1, such as the OP described. If you never played EverQuest, that would explain why you didn't understand what he had said

.

AlnilamE · July 2015

jflow1b14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

The aggro system in this game is whack. Tanking used to be one of my favorite things in Age of Conan. I actually had to work as a tank and work hard to hold aggro against high DPS and raids (basically trials for ESO) you would need 4-5 tanks swapping aggro so you had to learn to work with other tanks and how much aggro they pulled so you could have good swaps all while still holding it off of DPS. This is the reason why I don't care for this games PVE at all. I think I'll reinstall AoC now.

I holy agree as I stated above the fun of tanking is the fight for control not a button mashing mess or worse off the macro users or even worse the 2 button tanking games....

How many vet dungeons or trials have you tanked if I may ask?

jflow1b14_ESO · July 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

jflow1b14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

The aggro system in this game is whack. Tanking used to be one of my favorite things in Age of Conan. I actually had to work as a tank and work hard to hold aggro against high DPS and raids (basically trials for ESO) you would need 4-5 tanks swapping aggro so you had to learn to work with other tanks and how much aggro they pulled so you could have good swaps all while still holding it off of DPS. This is the reason why I don't care for this games PVE at all. I think I'll reinstall AoC now.

I holy agree as I stated above the fun of tanking is the fight for control not a button mashing mess or worse off the macro users or even worse the 2 button tanking games....

How many vet dungeons or trials have you tanked if I may ask?

None actually...I was prepared to make a tank character/toon but now that I know for sure there is no aggro system and it's either got a tank debuff or not removing the fun of tanking there is not longer a reason for me to create such a character...so I can tank with a button yay...snore fest...I'd rather make a platemail wearing sorc using a two handed sword and try to compete dps with a regular sorc...and if the only fight I have as a tank is the crappy targeting system then again yawn...

amasuriel · July 2015

jflow1b14_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

jflow1b14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

The aggro system in this game is whack. Tanking used to be one of my favorite things in Age of Conan. I actually had to work as a tank and work hard to hold aggro against high DPS and raids (basically trials for ESO) you would need 4-5 tanks swapping aggro so you had to learn to work with other tanks and how much aggro they pulled so you could have good swaps all while still holding it off of DPS. This is the reason why I don't care for this games PVE at all. I think I'll reinstall AoC now.

I holy agree as I stated above the fun of tanking is the fight for control not a button mashing mess or worse off the macro users or even worse the 2 button tanking games....

How many vet dungeons or trials have you tanked if I may ask?

None actually...I was prepared to make a tank character/toon but now that I know for sure there is no aggro system and it's either got a tank debuff or not removing the fun of tanking there is not longer a reason for me to create such a character...so I can tank with a button yay...snore fest...I'd rather make a platemail wearing sorc using a two handed sword and try to compete dps with a regular sorc...and if the only fight I have as a tank is the crappy targeting system then again yawn...

I agree with some others in this post, you just have to change how you think about tanking. Its not clicking 1 button every 11 seconds unless you are tanking very basic things.

All the hard dungeons (vDSA, or AA for example) require you to hold aggro on lots of different enemies at a time, made harder, not easier by the lack of AOE aggro. Then you start to get into utility. For example if you are a DK you can use chains to help group enemies together to make AOE more effective. There is a ranged taunt, so you certainly can pick up mages and archers if you need to. Interrupting enemies. Trying to build in some off DPS or Healing without making you ineffective. Just like DPS cannot be glass cannons with no mitigation, tanks cannot be aggro machines that don't do anything else.

I'm pretty hard on ESO in many ways, but replacing the tanking system with something similar to WoW or Everquest would be a step back in terms of fun gameplace IMO. I hated tanking in those games because...it was boring. I like that all the roles in ESO group content have elements of each other to be successful.

tl;dr
Don't knock it until you have tried it. Tanking high end content can be very fun.

biovitalb16_ESO · July 2015

Simple answer...no

Why...immersion.

Again this was another feature we asked for in beta and yet it was ignored because ZOS sided with the immersion qqers about having a stripped down bare bones Elder Scrolls type UI.

CidxLucy · July 2015

FFXIV Tank had a 1 2 3 hate move and you spam iy
The only 3 ways eso tank will lose hate
Tank dead
Over use of hate skill to fast
Did't use hate skill.

Tanks in this game you new good sta hp dmg and magic res good magic and sta reg.

Alot of tanks over use skill and they run out of sta or magie and make a wipe of party.

There alot more to tanking in eso then just one hate button hitting.

jflow1b14_ESO · July 2015

amasuriel wrote: »

jflow1b14_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

jflow1b14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

The aggro system in this game is whack. Tanking used to be one of my favorite things in Age of Conan. I actually had to work as a tank and work hard to hold aggro against high DPS and raids (basically trials for ESO) you would need 4-5 tanks swapping aggro so you had to learn to work with other tanks and how much aggro they pulled so you could have good swaps all while still holding it off of DPS. This is the reason why I don't care for this games PVE at all. I think I'll reinstall AoC now.

I holy agree as I stated above the fun of tanking is the fight for control not a button mashing mess or worse off the macro users or even worse the 2 button tanking games....

How many vet dungeons or trials have you tanked if I may ask?

None actually...I was prepared to make a tank character/toon but now that I know for sure there is no aggro system and it's either got a tank debuff or not removing the fun of tanking there is not longer a reason for me to create such a character...so I can tank with a button yay...snore fest...I'd rather make a platemail wearing sorc using a two handed sword and try to compete dps with a regular sorc...and if the only fight I have as a tank is the crappy targeting system then again yawn...

I agree with some others in this post, you just have to change how you think about tanking. Its not clicking 1 button every 11 seconds unless you are tanking very basic things.

All the hard dungeons (vDSA, or AA for example) require you to hold aggro on lots of different enemies at a time, made harder, not easier by the lack of AOE aggro. Then you start to get into utility. For example if you are a DK you can use chains to help group enemies together to make AOE more effective. There is a ranged taunt, so you certainly can pick up mages and archers if you need to. Interrupting enemies. Trying to build in some off DPS or Healing without making you ineffective. Just like DPS cannot be glass cannons with no mitigation, tanks cannot be aggro machines that don't do anything else.

I'm pretty hard on ESO in many ways, but replacing the tanking system with something similar to WoW or Everquest would be a step back in terms of fun gameplace IMO. I hated tanking in those games because...it was boring. I like that all the roles in ESO group content have elements of each other to be successful.

tl;dr
Don't knock it until you have tried it. Tanking high end content can be very fun.

I loved the tanking in later WoW, granted I only played the lich king on friends account as I refused to purchase the game due to the breaking of the game they did with their expansions. You couldn't just taunt a mob/boss and it would stay on you...you had to work to keep it, here from all I have heard so far it is basically 1 button and nothing more...maybe 2 if you use this ranged taunt which these taunts/debuffs are guaranteed...

no chance you can break the debuff with dps aggro since there is no aggro just debuffs...I want a fight yet you tell me I'm fighting the crappy targeting in this game...or making sure I have the debuff on all of the mobs which is basically spamming a taunt...there is no fight there is no real work more of a button mash tanking system which is boring as all get out...try tanking in EQ1 or WoW and you would know what a fight for aggro is...

it's not guaranteed with a debuff it is not a aggro boosting it's using aggro building attacks keeping every mob on you by making them believe you are the highest threat to them...calling their mothers snowblowers...smacking their kids...here you point at them and it's a guarantee...

and don't try to say there is an aggro system because I have proven there is not...since most don't read the OP I will repost it here...Take a 2 man group go into a delve and have one person hide behind a rock or part of the landscape having no LOS to the group of mobs and then have the other begin the attack...without taunting every single mob some will go straight for the guy that has no LOS to the mobs, has not used any skills, and has not attacked...That person has no aggro period to any of those mobs...yet it is impossible to say there is an aggro table with this happening...and it will happen almost every time you attack a group.

jflow1b14_ESO · July 2015

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

Simple answer...no

Why...immersion.

Again this was another feature we asked for in beta and yet it was ignored because ZOS sided with the immersion qqers about having a stripped down bare bones Elder Scrolls type UI.

I know I was one of the beta testers, I even have 2 copies of the game 1 for PC and 1 for PS4...I also got the statue and all that as I am a huge Elder Scrolls fan and have been since Arena...Most won't know that reference either.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

amasuriel wrote: »

jflow1b14_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

jflow1b14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

The aggro system in this game is whack. Tanking used to be one of my favorite things in Age of Conan. I actually had to work as a tank and work hard to hold aggro against high DPS and raids (basically trials for ESO) you would need 4-5 tanks swapping aggro so you had to learn to work with other tanks and how much aggro they pulled so you could have good swaps all while still holding it off of DPS. This is the reason why I don't care for this games PVE at all. I think I'll reinstall AoC now.

I holy agree as I stated above the fun of tanking is the fight for control not a button mashing mess or worse off the macro users or even worse the 2 button tanking games....

How many vet dungeons or trials have you tanked if I may ask?

None actually...I was prepared to make a tank character/toon but now that I know for sure there is no aggro system and it's either got a tank debuff or not removing the fun of tanking there is not longer a reason for me to create such a character...so I can tank with a button yay...snore fest...I'd rather make a platemail wearing sorc using a two handed sword and try to compete dps with a regular sorc...and if the only fight I have as a tank is the crappy targeting system then again yawn...

I agree with some others in this post, you just have to change how you think about tanking. Its not clicking 1 button every 11 seconds unless you are tanking very basic things.

All the hard dungeons (vDSA, or AA for example) require you to hold aggro on lots of different enemies at a time, made harder, not easier by the lack of AOE aggro. Then you start to get into utility. For example if you are a DK you can use chains to help group enemies together to make AOE more effective. There is a ranged taunt, so you certainly can pick up mages and archers if you need to. Interrupting enemies. Trying to build in some off DPS or Healing without making you ineffective. Just like DPS cannot be glass cannons with no mitigation, tanks cannot be aggro machines that don't do anything else.

I'm pretty hard on ESO in many ways, but replacing the tanking system with something similar to WoW or Everquest would be a step back in terms of fun gameplace IMO. I hated tanking in those games because...it was boring. I like that all the roles in ESO group content have elements of each other to be successful.

tl;dr
Don't knock it until you have tried it. Tanking high end content can be very fun.

I've done that. It is that simple, other than the buggy and giant hitboxes on some mobs, unfortunately. Taunt the big guys, root the rest depending on your class when tanking or throw a caltrops (which generates such an extreme amount of agro that everything will nearly always die before it ever gets a hit, if even that, on an ally). Trials and vDSA pretty much go "taunt any of the big melee guys with high health, and if one of the caster types that actually hurts people is around taunt it too. Melt stuff, and block big guys' melee hits and all mobs' power attacks as needed."

Seriously, even in 1.5... I tanked Mr. Hiath with my normal 5-light-armor build using staves, and we weren't even doing the 50-0 or 100-0 strategy that run as it was a newer group, which lessens the tanking demands significantly. For the Trials you toss on a sword and shield and fight the tab target that sometimes gets stuck, and the large hitboxes that often obfuscate being able to even properly target anything else if one's in your camera view. That's not difficulty... that's fighting the UI.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

jflow1b14_ESO wrote: »

I have played several MMO's from as far back as Everquest and even on MUDs. I have yet to actually see an aggro system, which makes combat more complicated, I feel for the tanks in this game. When combat starts I can stand still never use a skill or attack and even be hiding behind a rock (aka no Line of Sight to the mobs when combat starts) I yet still some how get attacked...I have tested this theory several times and yet somehow the mobs instinctively know where I am and come to attack me if there is more than one. That works great for one or 2 mobs yet the pulls in the Dungeons in this game are HUGE...and with no way to actually have aggro vs mobs that means the tank has to go around and put a debuff on every single mob but yet he can't block every attack and blocking doesn't work for attacks made from behind making the healer work harder.

What I see is a mess in combat DPS getting hit from ranged mobs since the Tank can't just grab aggro because there is no Aggro to grab. I think it's awesome because it doesn't matter who pulls a group as initially they might attack the puller one time but the other 5-7 mobs run a muck as they choose randomly out of the group to attack even the guy hiding behind the rock and was never actively attacking or using any skills...This confuses me totally, as this is an MMORPG and most may not know what RPG stands for or what actual Role Playing Game is...It's taking the role of a character and though most of us don't actually Role Play it does remove from the game an essence of realism (Granted this is a game after all and not real life but it removes from immersion into the story and setting).

Being a veteran RPG player and yes even P&P (Pen and Paper), I could not just have a monster know the wizard was hidng behind that rock over there if the monster never ever seen the wizard...it would remove from the game the total mechanics...being a video game since the dawn of MMORPGs there has been a Aggro/Threat system. I know Bethesda and Zenomax wanted to recreate the wheel here and in some ways they did...and in some ways they failed...trying to remove a system that created cookie cutter class systems created a worse cookie cutter system...Yes I can create a Sorc who wears Plate Mail armor and wields a two-handed sword but the cookie cutter mage over there will out do my sorc in every way and my sorc may never actually be useful until after I respec to the cookie cutter mage. You have your min/max people who have created perfect Damage Dealers and Healers and if you don't spec like them then you don't perform as well as they do...but that aside even in P&P RPGs a warrior/tank character had to get aggro of the monsters via any way possible yet if they couldn't then one of the most vital members of the team takes damage and could die, resulting in group wipe.

A aggro/Threat system does not guarantee a tank will grab all the aggro and keep every member of the group safe from attacks (his job is to be beat on not dps) while a healer heals him...(creating aggro/threat towards the healer) the tank has to work harder to keep the aggro then you have the dps who do massive damage (pulling aggro to them). The tanks job is to *** the mob off a him/her and keep it pissed off at him/her...even a half assed aggro system (WoW at it's start before the expansions and all that) had a rudimentary aggro/threat table,( it has since been overhauled and improved though I stopped playing when they broke the game with the first expansion), back on topic though is better than no aggro/threat table. mobs attacking who they choose at random you, even a person standing at the edge of the reset area for the mob which some mobs is quite far and in dungeons it doesn't seem there is a reset area for most mobs...but a mob can break off of the group and run for that person just for *** and giggles it seems even if it's 300 meters away and around 5 corners, that mob knows exactly where he is...adds for more questions than answers...does every mob in ESO have ESP and know where everyone is at all times?

I have ranted enough and I know there will be the haters and the followers who flame and or just be less intelligent (CoD has it's huge following of the same people and even make up more than 80% of it's community) and write their opinions here though I am more interested in what The Devs have to say on this matter as they are the ones who matter.

Insightful post, in all honesty... tanking is extremely, exceedingly easy in this game. With all the complaints about a small tweak to make it tougher announced recently, though, I don't know how much traction making tanking actually dificult to do well would get .

EDIT: Quick note... it will help a lot to add line breaks and paragraph spacing to your OP. Most people won't read it without, like I did by simply copying/pasting and then adding them after a cursory skimming before actually reading it through .

I've said this several times over a year ago. Tanking system is a Dps that taunts on occasion. Eso is not the only game that tried to break the trinity and just made it a two role system. MMO's used to be far more complex. There were 5 roles that had to work as a team. The new ones are lazy development with some BS story that the players wanted just dps roles

Wifeaggro13 · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Holly freaking wall of text Batman.

Lets hope not. It is one of those changes that I see ZOS doing haphazardly to satisfy the whiner base, destroying the game even further. They had already destroyed the ultimate system let's hope they do not destroy the non-derp tanking system.

Eh... the current tanking system is very much "derp", as you put it. It requires an absolutely minimal amount of effort as agro is simply based on taunting the main monster(s) once every blue moon, and throwing down Caltrops to pick up the adds if needed. Even the small change stopping stamina regeneration while holding down block won't really end up doing a whole lot other than make the learning curve a bit more apparrent for less-experienced tanks.

Compared to the many other games where the tank just activates all agro boosting toggles then goes in pushes one button to activate the opening macro that propels his agro meter sky high. after which very few things can make him lose the agro of the entire group.

Yes I prefer this system instead let's all play with the agro netter mini game.

That's wholly incorrect. That's how it works in ESO... tanking involves simply pressing taunt once every ~10-11 seconds to account for lag or LoS/hitbox goofing on you, to hold agro in a one-button binary state. The only difficulty comes in from the game's frustrating targeting system at times where large hitbox enemies such as the axes in AA or other areas make you fight the UI and the tab-priority-target system, not the gameplay. In most tanking systems, you have to balance mitigation with threat, which is composed of damage and agro boosts, to hold the bosses onto you.

Goof your damage up and the DPS can and will pull threat and get killed as a result in those games. In this one, that is completely negated and makes it trivial but for the bugs/flaws with targeting game-wide. In other games, the bosses hit for non-trivial amounts and you need to actually use mitigation skills to not die. In this one... well, you don't need to do much on that front nowadays . Hence, the trend/meta has gone completely over to nearly just dps'ing with a taunt on your bar. It's droll and far worse than the tanking systems seen in EQ1, such as the OP described. If you never played EverQuest, that would explain why you didn't understand what he had said .

Thank you I've been saying this for a year. Completely have watered down the mechanics . Part of the issue is development teams have used this excuse of destroying the trinity all they have done is made it an exercise of situational awareness plus DPS. I prefer ed the early mmo experience with 5 to 6 roles all equally important.

jflow1b14_ESO · July 2015

The issue most don't understand is...There is no aggro in ESO...there can not be any for how combat works in this game. To me it breaks combat to an extent. I see in several posts people using the word Aggro or Threat and talking about tanking...there is no aggro...ESO was designed as a dumbed down MMORPG...I wouldn't even be playing it except for a friend of mine is obsessed with it though once one of the better games comes out I am hoping I can still get a decent price for my PS4 copy at gamestop.

The lack of a aggro/threat system removes half the fun of the game...I would rather fight for what I get not have it handed to me, and that is how this game treats tanking, you put the taunt debuff on the mob and it's a guarantee it'll hit you if you don't it could go to any random party member even the one that has no Line of Sight to said mob. Those of you who want immersion explain to me how that is even remotely immersive?

Though tanking is not the only broken aspect of ESO it is a big one to me, there are several like the targeting system, the lack of magic spells, the actual lack of the destruction mage skill line (but you get a staff...wtf), the MOSTLY one-sided pvp campaigns (mostly not all), the tiny shields you get along with the butter knife sized swords (at least the greatswords are decent sized), the numerous critical errors, the total lack luster story line, the totally horrendous voice acting, the clunky animations, the over abundance of skill points making over skilled characters the only limit being the limited ability bar (My mage now at 50 will be respecced to full crafting and still be able to gather mats as I can max all craftings and still have enough skill points to create a offense/defense for trash mobs).

These are not all of the broken or deliberate aspects of the game but just a few that come to mind right away, after beta testing and playing for about a week once it was released on my PC, I knew without making it to 50 the game was broken and ended my subscription. The total disrespectful community on PS4 NA server makes me sick, severely reminds me of CoD lobbies with your 5 year olds running around acting inappropriately and disrespectful and then you have the adults that probably couldn't hold a job for longer than a week, and those that completely break most Terms of Service agreements by discrimination.

Reporting players does no good but they sure do send you an email stating you won't know the outcome yet after reporting 2 individuals (adults) for running around naked (so to speak) yelling and being obnoxious, ohh did I mention they were portraying homosexual acts in public areas, describing in public chat about the sexual positions they were demonstrating. A week later they were doing it again...Though I may be straight, the total lack of morals and disrespect to the homosexual community is in my mind completely wrong yet these two were allowed to continue their abrasive and disrespectful behavior without ZO doing anything.

Then you have the children...after hearing several playing this game I not only see a huge issue with parenting I also see a problem with ZO helping these parents out by screening the players a little more tightly. Not to mention after the first disrespectful comment coming from a child towards the female persuasion I checked my game case and sure enough the ESRP is M for mature 17+.

I do apologize for the overly long post and the ranting, though I could delete it I would rather leave it here so that maybe a Dev might see this post and provide us with an answer to any of the games many flaws. I humbly beg the Devs to program an aggro system, though knowing they most likely won't due to the fact this game is "The Guide to MMORPGs for the Dumb and Lazy".

I wish a better company would have done the MMO part for such an expansively created world filled with so much lore yet I imagine some of the blame goes to Bethesda for teaming up with ZO. If you don't understand that comment then you really have never actually played an Elder Scrolls game. After this, I am questioning if I want to buy another Bethesda game. I already know ZO is on the blacklist alongside EA.