Risk/reward? Help me see the appeal here.

Phinix1 · July 2015

I can see the risk: Regular players forced into a PVP zone just to gear up, becoming fodder gankers with 1000+ CP and the sole desire in the universe to cause other human beings grief. The normal player risks wasting hours of their life doing something they hate just because ZOS decided it would be brilliant to lock PVE gear/content behind a corpse-looting gank-fest.

OK. But where is the reward?

Yeah new gear, I guess. But that is sort of only a reward because it was taken away from you first, and you have to "earn back" that paid content by wasting hours of your life doing something you hate. Sort of a bitter pill reward.

But what about those ganker trolls? Where is the reward for them?

I mean really, is it rewarding to pick on some poor crafting RP player that never did PVP in their life nor wanted to? They have no skill, no desire to learn how to min-max whatever the current unbalanced exploit meta happens to be, and just want to get the content they paid for.

Then here you guys come, shooting fish in a barrel.

Do you really want a bunch of noob defenseless PVE/RP/crafting players dumped into PVP for easy kills? Was there really so much pressure on ZOS to add this that they became convinced it would be a good idea? Where is the challenge in that? Where is the reward?

HELP ME UNDERSTAND!

LEGENDARYYY · July 2015

who said you are forced to go in there?

arena25 · July 2015

I don't know the intention, but I guess it's another attempt at a cash cow...

But if it were up to me, I'd say it's a test to find out if PvP part of Justice System will work...

Maybe that's just me.

Akavir_Sentinel · July 2015

It won't be as bad as some think. Earning Tel Var stones will be slower for purely PvE players, but not impossible. Yes, you do have to venture out in PvP territory to do the questlines and dailies, but the stones that you get from doing those come in a container that cannot be looted from you, so no matter what, there is nothing any ganker/griefer can do to keep you from getting Tel Var stones and the new gear that is coming with IC.

Kronosphere · July 2015

well, there is quote "no pvp gear".. thats a bit iffy eg pact gear etc. BUT imagine its true=P you want pvpers to get 0 reward? ever? for the rest of esos life?

Psychobunni · July 2015

I wonder if the next PVE zone will come with V18/new dungeons/new gear...then if so, other than complaints about more levels... I think most complaints about being forced into pvp would stop.

Heck, for that matter there would be no need to even play until *that* update...but it would be a bad business move I guess to say that this is only temporary

Romo · July 2015

Kronosphere wrote: »

well, there is quote "no pvp gear".. thats a bit iffy eg pact gear etc. BUT imagine its true=P you want pvpers to get 0 reward? ever? for the rest of esos life?

No reward for ganking/griefing, the answer is yes, hell yes.

J2JMC · July 2015

The reward is me stomping on noobs who have no chance of fighting back of course.

Appleblade · July 2015

Saw that a lot in the Red Dead Redemption multiplayer. There was no level matching at all. Was running around at level 2 and along comes a guy at level 50 riding a golden bear at Mach 3 shooting a some sort of Wild Wild West contraption of a super-gun that instakills me. Um, good job?

It's like playing with one of those old cheat code devices. What's the point?

Fortunately you could start a private instance, invite friends and do some proper co-op.

Phinix1 · July 2015

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

It won't be as bad as some think. Earning Tel Var stones will be slower for purely PvE players, but not impossible. Yes, you do have to venture out in PvP territory to do the questlines and dailies, but the stones that you get from doing those come in a container that cannot be looted from you, so no matter what, there is nothing any ganker/griefer can do to keep you from getting Tel Var stones and the new gear that is coming with IC.

Except my TIME is more valuable than any stupid pixel stone.

If I have to spend HOURS every day to finish those quests because of repeated hub-camping and ganking by sociopathic griefer trolls that this sort of system caters to, I don't really care about the gear anymore because my time is more valuable than putting up with that.

To me it is INSANITY, where causing other people grief is the reward in and of itself. In my opinion and the opinion of most modern psychologists, such behavior/thinking is DISEASED, and perhaps even dangerous.

arena25 wrote: »

I don't know the intention, but I guess it's another attempt at a cash cow...

Maybe. I could almost understand. Just dumping a bunch of defenseless PVE crafters on the gank-hungry PVP trolls is a lot faster and a lot cheaper than making actual content.

That way the players themselves become the content, and if they didn't want to PVP, TOO BAD. I'm sure the PVP trolls will be grateful for all the easy-kill "new content."

RustedValor · July 2015

Its not all loss. You still keep your gold, drops, and experience gained. Besides, nothing is stopping you from ganking others and taking their stuff as well. The content will be huge success and bring back allot of old PvP players who quit when PvP got stale. You got a huge PVE DLC right around the corner. Quit imposing PVE values on the PVP community. We don't pettition to ruin your content, so stop butting in on our turf.

Psychobunni · July 2015

RustedValor wrote: »

Its not all loss. You still keep your gold, drops, and experience gained. Besides, nothing is stopping you from ganking others and taking their stuff as well. The content will be huge success and bring back allot of old PvP players who quit when PvP got stale. You got a huge PVE DLC right around the corner. Quit imposing PVE values on the PVP community. We don't pettition to ruin your content, so stop butting in on our turf.

I'm sorry but that is false. Sorc crit surge build didn't get destroyed because of PVE. No PVE player ever complained bolt escape was ruining PVE. Tanks aren't losing their stam regen while blocking bc PVE players complained....and on and on since pc launch of this game

Tbh, I can't think of any skill nerf requested by PVE players that had a negative effect on PVP.

DDuke · July 2015

Phinix1 wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

It won't be as bad as some think. Earning Tel Var stones will be slower for purely PvE players, but not impossible. Yes, you do have to venture out in PvP territory to do the questlines and dailies, but the stones that you get from doing those come in a container that cannot be looted from you, so no matter what, there is nothing any ganker/griefer can do to keep you from getting Tel Var stones and the new gear that is coming with IC.

Except my TIME is more valuable than any stupid pixel stone.

If I have to spend HOURS every day to finish those quests because of repeated hub-camping and ganking by sociopathic griefer trolls that this sort of system caters to, I don't really care about the gear anymore because my time is more valuable than putting up with that.

To me it is INSANITY, where causing other people grief is the reward in and of itself. In my opinion and the opinion of most modern psychologists, such behavior/thinking is DISEASED, and perhaps even dangerous.

If you feel your time is better spent elsewhere, here's a suggestion: spend it elsewhere.

Two new, PvP free dungeons are coming with the DLC, as well as revamp to all item sets in game & scaling of dungeons to V16.
I have a feeling goblin cave might be significantly less populated as well after the patch, in case you feel like grinding CPs.

Also, you seem to be misunderstanding the point of risk/reward. It is not to cause others grief, it is to have the feeling of danger & excitement when you're moving about gathering TV stones.

If you do not want danger & excitement to be a part of your gameplay then do something else, but do not try to force your preferences & mindset to other people.

Audigy · July 2015

How someone can get so angry about a game is beyond me. Do pvp players complain that good items drop in dungeons and it would be unfair to be griefed by the mobs there?

No, they don't!

Honestly, its always the same if a new content update has something else than just scripted environment (dungeons). Several people see the end of the world coming, just because one out of 5 DLC´s is not purely about them. Honestly, there is a new solo pve zone coming, just like a new group zone - the guys at ZOS have not forgotten about you.

This is an MMO, a game with a strong AVA focus. It was pretty clear from the first day on, that some content would be about the war of those factions. Its a part of the design philosophy and we all knew it.

The luxury with DLC´s is, that we can buy what we like, so if this isn't your type of DLC, then just skip it.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · July 2015

Ya just skip it. So you cant level up to VR16 because there is nothing for you to do. You wont have any of the new gear because it will be impossible for anyone who plays casually (meaning not everyday) to earn enough tokens. Nevermind the entire time experienced people who know every exploit imaginable will be killing you as soon as you leave the safe zone. Those who can spend every waking minute in the game will have zero risk and ALL the reward.

GreySix · July 2015

J2JMC wrote: »

The reward is me stomping on noobs who have no chance of fighting back of course.

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DDuke · July 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ya just skip it. So you cant level up to VR16 because there is nothing for you to do.

Did they suddenly remove the rest of the game, where you can level up? Goblin cave, Craglorn (getting buffed even) etc.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You wont have any of the new gear because it will be impossible for anyone who plays casually (meaning not everyday) to earn enough tokens.

...and it will continue being impossible for PvPers who hate PvE to get things like Undaunted sets etc without inconveniencing themselves.

Also, nowhere has it been confirmed that this gear will be BoP (which I hope it will), or that it will be better than revamped PvE sets. Next.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Nevermind the entire time experienced people who know every exploit imaginable will be killing you as soon as you leave the safe zone. Those who can spend every waking minute in the game will have zero risk and ALL the reward.

Do all the people "playing every waking minute" in the game play one faction only? Or are you saying there's a secret conspiracy going on and they wont get ganked by each other, or hordes of "normal players"?

Surely you see how weak your arguments are.

Agobi · July 2015

Phinix1 wrote: »

.....Do you really want a bunch of noob defenseless PVE/RP/crafting players dumped into PVP for easy kills? .....

HELP ME UNDERSTAND!

After many years,and many,many mmo's I have come to the conclussion that the answer to that is yes .

Pvp players all say they do it for "the challenge"...but the ganking of lesser players is really what makes most of them happy.

Except all the posters below this that tells me they are the exception of course...they do it for the challenge and the true test of skill

bowmanz607 · July 2015

Phinix1 wrote: »

I can see the risk: Regular players forced into a PVP zone just to gear up, becoming fodder gankers with 1000+ CP and the sole desire in the universe to cause other human beings grief. The normal player risks wasting hours of their life doing something they hate just because ZOS decided it would be brilliant to lock PVE gear/content behind a corpse-looting gank-fest.

OK. But where is the reward?

Yeah new gear, I guess. But that is sort of only a reward because it was taken away from you first, and you have to "earn back" that paid content by wasting hours of your life doing something you hate. Sort of a bitter pill reward.

But what about those ganker trolls? Where is the reward for them?

I mean really, is it rewarding to pick on some poor crafting RP player that never did PVP in their life nor wanted to? They have no skill, no desire to learn how to min-max whatever the current unbalanced exploit meta happens to be, and just want to get the content they paid for.

Then here you guys come, shooting fish in a barrel.

Do you really want a bunch of noob defenseless PVE/RP/crafting players dumped into PVP for easy kills? Was there really so much pressure on ZOS to add this that they became convinced it would be a good idea? Where is the challenge in that? Where is the reward?

HELP ME UNDERSTAND!

2 points.

1.) this was meant primarily for pvp players. we have had zero content.
2.) play in 4-man dungeons to avoid gankers to get what you want. also, you can teleport out with the stone.

technohic · July 2015

The only thing you can lose are stones. You can do the daily and get some that are not lootable while they are in the box. Slow going, but yes; you have options.

And the instanced white gold tower as well as the prison does not have stones but does not require you to go through the IC to get there and I am sure it will have drops of gear as well. So there is group PvE content to level with.

Still not sure about solo content but thats usually the case. Actually in SWTOR, they are going almost entirely solo in their next expansion, and you still get nothing but whining about there not being new group PvE content so they are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Cudos to ZOS for actually doing an update with a large PvP CONTENT focus that is so rarely done any more. Everyone else can wait until the next patch for a change.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · July 2015

Again noone said anything about not wanting pvp. What people are upset about is losing all your stuff when you die. That is all.

technohic · July 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again noone said anything about not wanting pvp. What people are upset about is losing all your stuff when you die. That is all.

Thats the PvP content! The risk of losing stuff. And before the slippery slope fallacy stuff comes as it has; its not anything major that you use and worked a long time for like your gear; its stuff that you are fighting over to begin with! You lose nothing you came with.

Soulshine · July 2015

Phinix1 wrote: »

I can see the risk: Regular players forced into a PVP zone just to gear up, becoming fodder gankers with 1000+ CP and the sole desire in the universe to cause other human beings grief. The normal player risks wasting hours of their life doing something they hate just because ZOS decided it would be brilliant to lock PVE gear/content behind a corpse-looting gank-fest.

OK. But where is the reward?

Yeah new gear, I guess. But that is sort of only a reward because it was taken away from you first, and you have to "earn back" that paid content by wasting hours of your life doing something you hate. Sort of a bitter pill reward.

But what about those ganker trolls? Where is the reward for them?

I mean really, is it rewarding to pick on some poor crafting RP player that never did PVP in their life nor wanted to? They have no skill, no desire to learn how to min-max whatever the current unbalanced exploit meta happens to be, and just want to get the content they paid for.

Then here you guys come, shooting fish in a barrel.

Do you really want a bunch of noob defenseless PVE/RP/crafting players dumped into PVP for easy kills? Was there really so much pressure on ZOS to add this that they became convinced it would be a good idea? Where is the challenge in that? Where is the reward?

HELP ME UNDERSTAND!

It is difficult to help someone understand when from the get go the views presented are so closed off.

First off, you are making a huge amount of assumptions about gear. We know absolutely nothing yet about these gear sets. We have no details as to the types of stats the new crafted sets will have, what will drop -- IF ANYTHING DECENT -- from the new dungeons there, and furthermore we have no information about the new Undaunted pledge drops, if these will be better than any we now have, etc. (Whatever the hell happened to Season Gear I have no clue, but that is another long buried promise which merits a separate thread...)

So meantime calm down, breathe.

Second, try to realize this update has been promised since beta. It was supposed to released shortly after live launched last year and it never came. It has always been known to be a PvP zone, for PvP and PvE activity combined. It is not news. What is IS NEWS is that PvE players will actually get a taste of the rewards, something you presently do NOT get from AP in Cyrodiil unless you manage to kill off some other players there...

But, if you want to assume the worst however, and think that ALL THE BEST GEAR for PvE will ONLY BE IN IC!!! (good lord...) then ok, plan for it.

They did give us PvE players options to earn TV from questing and dailies, and that TV cannot ever be taken from you unless you are goofy enough to open the boxes before getting to a safe zone. It may take you a while to earn enough to get the things you will want, but then what reward is there in getting something overnight -- or did you just want everything handed to you merely for setting foot inside a known WAR ZONE?

A little perspective please?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · July 2015

technohic wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again noone said anything about not wanting pvp. What people are upset about is losing all your stuff when you die. That is all.

Thats the PvP content! The risk of losing stuff. And before the slippery slope fallacy stuff comes as it has; its not anything major that you use and worked a long time for like your gear; its stuff that you are fighting over to begin with! You lose nothing you came with.

Thats nonsense. Losing stuff is not part of PVP in this game never has been. You die you have to respawn back at your home area and run/ride all the way back. So what you are saying simply is not true and only a matter of your own opinion.

technohic · July 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again noone said anything about not wanting pvp. What people are upset about is losing all your stuff when you die. That is all.

Thats the PvP content! The risk of losing stuff. And before the slippery slope fallacy stuff comes as it has; its not anything major that you use and worked a long time for like your gear; its stuff that you are fighting over to begin with! You lose nothing you came with.

Thats nonsense. Losing stuff is not part of PVP in this game never has been. You die you have to respawn back at your home area and run/ride all the way back. So what you are saying simply is not true and only a matter of your own opinion.

Actually it is. You fight to obtain something and you lose it all the time. You fight to take a keep. You lose the keep. You fight to get some stones. You lose some stones. They are not actually yours until you bank them; then and only then, did you earn them. Hell; you even fight NPCs to take a keep.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · July 2015

technohic wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again noone said anything about not wanting pvp. What people are upset about is losing all your stuff when you die. That is all.

Thats the PvP content! The risk of losing stuff. And before the slippery slope fallacy stuff comes as it has; its not anything major that you use and worked a long time for like your gear; its stuff that you are fighting over to begin with! You lose nothing you came with.

Thats nonsense. Losing stuff is not part of PVP in this game never has been. You die you have to respawn back at your home area and run/ride all the way back. So what you are saying simply is not true and only a matter of your own opinion.

Actually it is. You fight to obtain something and you lose it all the time. You fight to take a keep. You lose the keep. You fight to get some stones. You lose some stones. They are not actually yours until you bank them; then and only then, did you earn them. Hell; you even fight NPCs to take a keep.

Thats not something you have. You dont have a keep its not yours. You cant put it in your bank. So your argument is silly.

technohic · July 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again noone said anything about not wanting pvp. What people are upset about is losing all your stuff when you die. That is all.

Thats the PvP content! The risk of losing stuff. And before the slippery slope fallacy stuff comes as it has; its not anything major that you use and worked a long time for like your gear; its stuff that you are fighting over to begin with! You lose nothing you came with.

Thats nonsense. Losing stuff is not part of PVP in this game never has been. You die you have to respawn back at your home area and run/ride all the way back. So what you are saying simply is not true and only a matter of your own opinion.

Actually it is. You fight to obtain something and you lose it all the time. You fight to take a keep. You lose the keep. You fight to get some stones. You lose some stones. They are not actually yours until you bank them; then and only then, did you earn them. Hell; you even fight NPCs to take a keep.

Thats not something you have. You dont have a keep its not yours. You cant put it in your bank. So your argument is silly.

Its just different. Hence why this is NEW content. You never own the stones, until you bank them. It is the same general idea; something to fight over. Thats the entire point. You all just keep thinking its something to farm and it isn't exactly that either.

J2JMC · July 2015

GreySix wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

The reward is me stomping on noobs who have no chance of fighting back of course.

Dank meme.

Wizzo91 · July 2015

I'm getting sick of all this QQ.

IC is the first PVP content since release. PVP content with PVE elements.

You don't even know to what degree the new item sets will be relevant to PVE - maybe they will? But PVP armour already ist (morag tong, ravager)...

And how are gankers a troll? Imperial City is PVP content. Killing others is a part of PVP. How they kill you does not matter and should not. (I don't like the play style but it is totally valid, and players with ganking builds are really easy to kill if you survive the first burst)

The largest segment of players are casuals. You won't be the only one.

You will kill some, you will die some. And you will get Tel Var stones if you participate. Deal with it.

And last but not least - if you don't like how they have planned IC - guess what, you are not forced to buy it.

Korah_Eaglecry · July 2015

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

who said you are forced to go in there?

Obviously if you want the top end gear you have two choices. Risk being ganked and having hours of your loot stolen from you, with a 50 TV Stone Surcharge for Banking them added ontop of insult. Or you wait for people to risk everything to get the mats back to the PvE zones and then mark them up with high prices because of the enormous risk involved in getting it to the traders.

One way or the other, youre being forced to do something to obtain that gear.

Wizzo91 · July 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

who said you are forced to go in there?

Obviously if you want the top end gear you have two choices. Risk being ganked and having hours of your loot stolen from you, with a 50 TV Stone Surcharge for Banking them added ontop of insult. Or you wait for people to risk everything to get the mats back to the PvE zones and then mark them up with high prices because of the enormous risk involved in getting it to the traders.

One way or the other, youre being forced to do something to obtain that gear.

Not true, you are definitely not forced. You can continue with your old gear and complete all content with no problem (or are you a min/maxer?) or just stop playing...