Anti-PvPrs, Tel Var stones and the Imperial City

phairdon · July 2015

This whole entitlement theme is getting tiresome.

Appleblade · July 2015

Azurulia wrote: »

The clock is ticking, Twilight. The clock. Is. Ticking!

Oh dear. I've alerted Celestia.

Kurimugann · July 2015

I know Cyrodil has PvE, I know Imperial City will have PvE, maybe even Skyshards, they did not mention those did they...

From my 10+ years of online gaming here is what I learned: Hardcore people and Casual people hate eachother.

As a Casual player, one that has been broken in pieces by Hardcore ones over the years, it is hard for me to enjoy gaming (especially PvP) when teammates and opponents alike bully me into quitting the game or worst because I am not as good as them (and never will be according to them).

And so the PvP vs PvE war shall live on as long as *** wont learn that their actions AND attitude have consequences in game AND in real life. In other words if you reply to stuff saying "U Mad Cause Imma Kill You and Steal Your Stones" then you are proving my point.

CP5 · July 2015

Kurimugann wrote: »

I know Cyrodil has PvE, I know Imperial City will have PvE, maybe even Skyshards, they did not mention those did they...

From my 10+ years of online gaming here is what I learned: Hardcore people and Casual people hate eachother.

As a Casual player, one that has been broken in pieces by Hardcore ones over the years, it is hard for me to enjoy gaming (especially PvP) when teammates and opponents alike bully me into quitting the game or worst because I am not as good as them (and never will be according to them).

And so the PvP vs PvE war shall live on as long as *** wont learn that their actions AND attitude have consequences in game AND in real life. In other words if you reply to stuff saying "U Mad Cause Imma Kill You and Steal Your Stones" then you are proving my point.

It doesn't help that they designed the system this way. Are there any builds that are as effective at killing mobs and players as pure pve or pvp builds? If not then the current system sets up pve players to go farm mobs and then be killed by pvp players who are better equip to hunt them. People don't like being turned into cattle for another's amusement but at this rate the community will rip itself apart well in advance...

Elephant42 · July 2015

My take on this is that ZOS are unhappy with the numbers they are getting in PVP, and rather than address the _real_ reasons for this state of affairs, have implemented a thinly veiled attempt at social engineering in an attempt to coerce more players to PVP.

It's very possible that this approach might backfire and send players in an entirely different direction to that desired by ZOS.

We shall see...

TheBull · July 2015

Kurimugann wrote: »

I know Cyrodil has PvE, I know Imperial City will have PvE, maybe even Skyshards, they did not mention those did they...

From my 10+ years of online gaming here is what I learned: Hardcore people and Casual people hate eachother.

As a Casual player, one that has been broken in pieces by Hardcore ones over the years, it is hard for me to enjoy gaming (especially PvP) when teammates and opponents alike bully me into quitting the game or worst because I am not as good as them (and never will be according to them).

And so the PvP vs PvE war shall live on as long as *** wont learn that their actions AND attitude have consequences in game AND in real life. In other words if you reply to stuff saying "U Mad Cause Imma Kill You and Steal Your Stones" then you are proving my point.

You are hanging with the wrong people man. Real talk. To hell with them. All of them. The wont be around next year anyways.

grumlins · July 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

As I understand it everything that you can purchase with these stones can be traded, so you can buy it on the guild stores.

That's actually awesome I wondered about that. I personally hate PVP so I'll be avoiding that preferring the make money and improve my stealing skills

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

ESO would be so much better placea without PVP.

No more nerf cry threads, no more "balances" breaking whole game for PVE players.
No more silly wars and now, with lootable TV stones ESO welcomes community of harassment and griefing.
And everyone smiles at the thought of losing 3 hours of their work of farming stones to a ganker who just logged in and camped sewer entrance.

TheBull · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

ESO would be so much better placea without PVP.

No more nerf cry threads, no more "balances" breaking whole game for PVE players.
No more silly wars and now, with lootable TV stones ESO welcomes community of harassment and griefing.
And everyone smiles at the thought of losing 3 hours of their work of farming stones to a ganker who just logged in and camped sewer entrance.

ESO would fail w/o pvp.

Vizier · July 2015

Pangnirtung wrote: »

MikeB wrote: »

If they want to force people into PvP zones there should be an option to toggle PvP on/off.

This ONE THOUSAND TIMES!!!

Nobody is forcing you to PvP. You don't have to enter PvP zones if you don't want to. Now if you feel compelled to look behind every rock and tree or are a completist, well then, that's your own problem. The game is comprised of both PvE and PvP. Imperial City has always been planned as a PvP centered Instance because it is in the heart of Cyrodiil the PvP zone.

You don't have to go there. So if you die there...that's on you.

Toggle on/off PvP.... where is my LOL button?

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Vizier wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

MikeB wrote: »

If they want to force people into PvP zones there should be an option to toggle PvP on/off.

This ONE THOUSAND TIMES!!!

Nobody is forcing you to PvP. You don't have to enter PvP zones if you don't want to. Now if you feel compelled to look behind every rock and tree or are a completist, well then, that's your own problem. The game is comprised of both PvE and PvP. Imperial City has always been planned as a PvP centered Instance because it is in the heart of Cyrodiil the PvP zone.

You don't have to go there. So if you die there...that's on you.

Toggle on/off PvP.... where is my LOL button?

PVP planned as PVP centered instance?
Then why there is major portion of PVE in there? Remove PVE from PVP. If PVPers care so much about kills, zerging and ganking then remove every single crafting station, PVE mob, dungeon from cyriodiil so PVP is really PVP.

Otherwise, at all who say "Hurr durr IC is pvp, dont go there".... where is my LOL button?

Vizier · July 2015

Samadhi wrote: »

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

...
A strict AvA game is not going to work, either. What MMO did work, however, was a little game called World of Warcraft that catered to both PvP and PvE. ZOS seems to want to bridge those two player-types together, and it's not working. For every egotistical PvP fanboy touting how they're going to demolish PvE Carebears and steal all our stones there's plenty of more people crying out against this system.
...

This is true.

For every egotistical PvP player touting how they are going to demolish PvE Carebears,
There are several egotistical PvE players touting how they are morally superior to PvP Psychopaths, and are going to be demolished;
And, on each side, the egos are being used to claim their own side has greater validity.

It is too bad that ZOS does not have any way to get PvE players to sacrifice their egos and stop fearing PvP interactions and deaths.
They already convinced PvP players to sacrifice their egos and farm boring PvE content in order to be competitive in PvP.

This- QFT

It's amusing, only to a point and then it becomes an annoyance until it pretty much demolishes any ounce of respect I have for them. That is the vocal PVE crowd that can't seem to live and let live ( :-) ) Their egos and sensibilities are so offended when someone kills them they just can't take it. It's personal and they'll never come to a point where it's not. Maybe it's the shattering of their image of themselves since we know NPC's can't kill jack. hmmm. I'm thinking I need to apply for a grant to study the two different sides.

Anyway I wish they'd just come to terms with the fact PvP is for killing other players and that means them too. They need to just accept it, live it, love it or leave PvP alone.

RazzPitazz · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

MikeB wrote: »

If they want to force people into PvP zones there should be an option to toggle PvP on/off.

This ONE THOUSAND TIMES!!!

Nobody is forcing you to PvP. You don't have to enter PvP zones if you don't want to. Now if you feel compelled to look behind every rock and tree or are a completist, well then, that's your own problem. The game is comprised of both PvE and PvP. Imperial City has always been planned as a PvP centered Instance because it is in the heart of Cyrodiil the PvP zone.

You don't have to go there. So if you die there...that's on you.

Toggle on/off PvP.... where is my LOL button?

PVP planned as PVP centered instance?
Then why there is major portion of PVE in there? Remove PVE from PVP. If PVPers care so much about kills, zerging and ganking then remove every single crafting station, PVE mob, dungeon from cyriodiil so PVP is really PVP.

Otherwise, at all who say "Hurr durr IC is pvp, dont go there".... where is my LOL button?

In total reality IC is PvP with PvE elements added to it. It is effectively open world PvP in a can, or PvPvE.

lsneakl · July 2015

Samadhi wrote: »

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

...
A strict AvA game is not going to work, either. What MMO did work, however, was a little game called World of Warcraft that catered to both PvP and PvE. ZOS seems to want to bridge those two player-types together, and it's not working. For every egotistical PvP fanboy touting how they're going to demolish PvE Carebears and steal all our stones there's plenty of more people crying out against this system.
...

This is true.

For every egotistical PvP player touting how they are going to demolish PvE Carebears,
There are several egotistical PvE players touting how they are morally superior to PvP Psychopaths, and are going to be demolished;
And, on each side, the egos are being used to claim their own side has greater validity.

It is too bad that ZOS does not have any way to get PvE players to sacrifice their egos and stop fearing PvP interactions and deaths.
They already convinced PvP players to sacrifice their egos and farm boring PvE content in order to be competitive in PvP.

It's called arena or duels.... I have not played MMOs much but my limited time in PvP have left me wanting to primarily stay away from it as you run around for a long time come up against an enemy and then die shortly after. You than have to run around for a long time again.

If they had a way to duel and get into quick fights with someone around your level that would help those non-pvp start to get better and see they have a chance. Until something like that happens I likely will continue to avoid PvP. Not because I care about getting killed its caring about wasting 30mins - 1hr only to be killed and have to repeat the process and really never have a chance.

The reason PvP works so well in shooters is that even if other players can ranking up for better weapons there is a lot of practice to be had within a very short process as you constantly see people and are forced to fight within a time limit.

Again I just want actual PVP training in some fashion. How do I know if I am getting killed because of my inexperience or because I am out CPd and out armored?

Elijah_Crow · July 2015

I'm really starting to dislike the entitlement attitude of those that are afraid to fight another player in a video game.

No one is forcing you to participate in this part of the game. There are a large portion of players who enjoy both PvE and PvP gameplay and for us, IC represents the best blending of both.

You might want to consider the long term health of the game relies upon appealing to many play styles. This update includes all dungeons scaling to VR16 and two new ones where we know for sure VR16 gear will be available in addition to crafted sets.

It's absolutely insane seeing calls to remove PvP from the game because it's a detriment.

Tankqull · July 2015

Vizier wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

MikeB wrote: »

If they want to force people into PvP zones there should be an option to toggle PvP on/off.

This ONE THOUSAND TIMES!!!

Nobody is forcing you to PvP. You don't have to enter PvP zones if you don't want to. Now if you feel compelled to look behind every rock and tree or are a completist, well then, that's your own problem. The game is comprised of both PvE and PvP. Imperial City has always been planned as a PvP centered Instance because it is in the heart of Cyrodiil the PvP zone.

You don't have to go there. So if you die there...that's on you.

Toggle on/off PvP.... where is my LOL button?

the toggle allready exist - as you have to list for cyrodiil access...

MissBizz · July 2015

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

I'm really starting to dislike the entitlement attitude of those that are afraid to fight another player in a video game.

No one is forcing you to participate in this part of the game. There are a large portion of players who enjoy both PvE and PvP gameplay and for us, IC represents the best blending of both.

You might want to consider the long term health of the game relies upon appealing to many play styles. This update includes all dungeons scaling to VR16 and two new ones where we know for sure VR16 gear will be available in addition to crafted sets.

It's absolutely insane seeing calls to remove PvP from the game because it's a detriment.

I'm not a fan of PvP, but I'll give it an honest try. I do agree @Elijah_Crow about stating there will also be VR16 sets available in the PvE dungeons, and I think maybe this should have been mentioned more. I feel like we have been told about the stone system so we are focusing on it and not realizing there's more to the DLC. Sure you can buy the crafting mats with stones, but, you can also deconstruct gear to get it. I'm not sure on this, but it seems logical that any VR16 gear could have a chance of returning mats - including the gear you loot in the dungeons, where there is no PvP. As well, the (tel var) gear can be sold.. So it will be like Cyrodiil PvP sets. Don't PvP? Then find someone with lots of AP (or now, tel var stones) to buy it and you give them gold. Oh, and

AlienSlof · July 2015

Slurg wrote: »

I really don't think it's the user base's fault that ZOS is running a year behind in their development of new PVP content.

That being said, I for one plan to leave you PVP-ers to enjoy your new city. I'll wait to pay for content I can enjoy.

^ This. ^

I am glad that the PvP'ers are getting something, as they have been pretty much content-starved since the start. However, so have we PvE'ers! I was hoping that ZoS would release IC and Orsinium/Wrothgar either together or within a short time of each other, to appease both player bases. Sadly, that's not going to be the case.

I still thoroughly enjoy my ESO gaming, but I am feeling in much need of a new area to explore, new things to do and IC isn't it for me. I got PvP out of my system a long time ago with Quake 3, and with my old, disabled hands and lack of dexterity and speed, I'd only be a drag-factor to a PvP group anyway.

However, all is not lost for the free patch part of things contains the stuff I've wanted for some time, plus there is a new, what looks like undead, mount coming, so I'll be content to bumble along until Orsinium comes along.

I'll be saving the rest of my crowns for Orsinium. Won't be buying IC.

Emma_Overload · July 2015

TheBull wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

ESO would be so much better placea without PVP.

No more nerf cry threads, no more "balances" breaking whole game for PVE players.
No more silly wars and now, with lootable TV stones ESO welcomes community of harassment and griefing.
And everyone smiles at the thought of losing 3 hours of their work of farming stones to a ganker who just logged in and camped sewer entrance.

ESO would fail w/o pvp.

Delusional. ESO is failing BECAUSE of PvP. All the endless nerfs and rebalances (thanks to PvP whiners) have nearly destroyed this game.

F7sus4 · July 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Delusional. ESO is failing BECAUSE of PvP. All the endless nerfs and rebalances (thanks to PvP whiners) have nearly destroyed this game.

While we can't deny that all the patches brought more balance to PvP, we also have to note that they utterly wrecked PvE balance. So it's not that "because of PvP" the game sucks. It's just that adjustments to one part (PvP) of the game negatively affect the other part (PvE) and ZOS fails miserably to notice it.

RazzPitazz · July 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

ESO would be so much better placea without PVP.

No more nerf cry threads, no more "balances" breaking whole game for PVE players.
No more silly wars and now, with lootable TV stones ESO welcomes community of harassment and griefing.
And everyone smiles at the thought of losing 3 hours of their work of farming stones to a ganker who just logged in and camped sewer entrance.

ESO would fail w/o pvp.

Delusional. ESO is failing BECAUSE of PvP. All the endless nerfs and rebalances (thanks to PvP whiners) have nearly destroyed this game.

This makes no sense. PvE is not reliant on PvP balance issues. Despite the fact that everyone gets hit when a nerf/bud takes place, PvE is barely affected in the grand scheme of things. The worst hit was to DK's a while back and they disappeared... oh wait, no they didn't.

F7sus4 · July 2015

RazzPitazz wrote: »

This makes no sense. PvE is not reliant on PvP balance issues. Despite the fact that everyone gets hit when a nerf/bud takes place, PvE is barely affected in the grand scheme of things. The worst hit was to DK's a while back and they disappeared... oh wait, no they didn't.

That's exactly what @Emma_Eunjung said is delusional, being more than 100% right.

RazzPitazz · July 2015

F7sus4 wrote: »

RazzPitazz wrote: »

This makes no sense. PvE is not reliant on PvP balance issues. Despite the fact that everyone gets hit when a nerf/bud takes place, PvE is barely affected in the grand scheme of things. The worst hit was to DK's a while back and they disappeared... oh wait, no they didn't.

That's exactly what @Emma_Eunjung said is delusional, being more than 100% right.

Not bad, You retorted ny restating the position HOW have these "balance" changes wrecked PvE game play?

aco5712 · July 2015

i cant wait to wreck all these pve care bears. much AP, much stones, such happiness.

Your entering cyrodiil so you have to pvp. If you want to pve, go to craglorn or the 100 other places. cya in IC puggies

Elloa · July 2015

Can we stop the war between PVErs and PVPers already?
We are all gamers and we enjoy the same game for different reasons. We should wish each other to have as much fun as posisble in our own area.

I'm very happy that Imperial City will offer PVPer their "game dream". It has enough pure PVE content to satisfy the PVE"carebear" (not saying this as an offence here ^^) that can just jump direclty into 2 new dungeons with normal and Vet mode.
It has enough content for hybrid players and adventurers that prefer PVE but enjoy to do it with a bit of risk.
And it is certainly the PVP dream land they were waiting for since the announce of ESO in 2012-2013!

Of course, I've concerns. Will the PVP be balanced enough (champion points)? Will the PVErs have enough possibility to avoid gankers (storing stones, sneaking, get friends protection)? That's the kind concerns we should focus on, rather than having ridiculous argument about wich population of ESO players had been the most screwed over the year!

So far, Zenimax have answered my concerns as PVE carebear:
- I can store my stones, by pack of 50
- I can buy a teleport item if I'm scared to lose my stones
- I can choose the Campaign that would fit me best (Maybe I'll choose a campaign dominated by my faction)
- I can directly teleport to the two Dungeons that really got my interest without any risk
- I can buy the materials and items if I'm only interested on them and do not want to participate to stone hunt
- I can also NOT BUY THE DLC if I think it's the not the content for me. And I can even test it on PTS before to purchase it!

Yolokin_Swagonborn · July 2015

AlienSlof wrote: »

I am glad that the PvP'ers are getting something, as they have been pretty much content-starved since the start. However, so have we PvE'ers! I was hoping that ZoS would release IC and Orsinium/Wrothgar either together or within a short time of each other, to appease both player bases. Sadly, that's not going to be the case.

You are completely right. They made a HUGE mistake by not adding the solo PvE areas at the same time or before the IC launch. That way the PvE community would have something to do instead of just adding their voices to the PvP debate with the effect of softening the content and lowering the risk, danger and every element PvP'ers like.

Even though PvP has gotten NOTHING since launch, (and PvE has had multiple updates) I realize we are all content starved both PvE and PvP. So naturally the PvE'ers will make as much feedback noise as possible and try to sway the imperial city to fit their needs and playstyle since they have nothing to do until the PvE expansion come out..

Has ZOS never had a kid brother or sister? If you get a cool videogame they will demand to play too and cry when you win or beat them. You have to give them a toy at the same time so they don't want to play yours.

PvE'ers need a shiny toy to distract them from crying to ZOS and ruining the first PvP content since launch.

Farorin · July 2015

I've said it before, i will say it as many times as I need.

This is the first bit of PVP content we have received since the beginning, please just let us have this, we didn't try to get them to turn craglorn or vet dungeons into PVP fests, so please stop trying to turn our Imperial City into a PVE fest.

I just want to have fun doing PVP, finally something comes out that gives me some more incentive to do some PVP, and everybody is trying to wreck it and take out the competition element.

Emma_Overload · July 2015

RazzPitazz wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

ESO would be so much better placea without PVP.

No more nerf cry threads, no more "balances" breaking whole game for PVE players.
No more silly wars and now, with lootable TV stones ESO welcomes community of harassment and griefing.
And everyone smiles at the thought of losing 3 hours of their work of farming stones to a ganker who just logged in and camped sewer entrance.

ESO would fail w/o pvp.

Delusional. ESO is failing BECAUSE of PvP. All the endless nerfs and rebalances (thanks to PvP whiners) have nearly destroyed this game.

This makes no sense. PvE is not reliant on PvP balance issues. Despite the fact that everyone gets hit when a nerf/bud takes place, PvE is barely affected in the grand scheme of things. The worst hit was to DK's a while back and they disappeared... oh wait, no they didn't.

WOW, REALLY? You don't think PvE Sorcs ever used Bolt Escape? You don't think Nirnhoned armor was ever useful in PvE? You don't think any PvE tanks ever needed to hold down block? You don't think any PvE Stamina builds ever relied on roll dodging to avoid damage? ALL of these things are nerfed in the upcoming patch because of PvP "issues", and that's just one patch. Patch after patch, this crap has been going on for a year. The irony is that ESO was better balanced at launch then it is now!

Tankqull · July 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

ESO would be so much better placea without PVP.

No more nerf cry threads, no more "balances" breaking whole game for PVE players.
No more silly wars and now, with lootable TV stones ESO welcomes community of harassment and griefing.
And everyone smiles at the thought of losing 3 hours of their work of farming stones to a ganker who just logged in and camped sewer entrance.

ESO would fail w/o pvp.

Delusional. ESO is failing BECAUSE of PvP. All the endless nerfs and rebalances (thanks to PvP whiners) have nearly destroyed this game.

Delusional. ESO is surviving BECASUE of PVP. AS the endless amount of PvE content (3 whoping <<<<20min trials and one 4 Person dungeon) is so fullfilling.

Sausage · July 2015

PVP justice system is bad for many reason, like all PVP move to zones from Cyrodil. Take my advice, only mouse and cat play, Criminals try to dodge and Guards try to tackle.