Escape Mechanic Balance and Imperial City
timidobserver
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Note: I don't have an issue with the Telvar Stone System. In fact, I like it. It is probably one of the most hardcore PvP mechanics I've seen in a MMO game in a while. Almost no one allows you to kill players and actually take their stuff anymore.
My problem is the imbalance of escape mechanics among the classes. With this new system, having the ability to escape combat is going to be the most important thing. I guarantee you that after about 3 months if you run a query on your servers to show you which class has the most stones, it will be Nightblades and Sorcerers. Taking the Telvar Stone System into consideration, are there any plans to give DKs and Templar some form of class escape abilities?
The question is whether you are going to blindly wait 3 months to run your query to fix the imbalance then or proactively find a way to fix it before Imperial City launches. As it stands, you can't give me one reason why I shouldn't reroll to Sorc or NB for Imperial City.
My problem is the imbalance of escape mechanics among the classes. With this new system, having the ability to escape combat is going to be the most important thing. I guarantee you that after about 3 months if you run a query on your servers to show you which class has the most stones, it will be Nightblades and Sorcerers. Taking the Telvar Stone System into consideration, are there any plans to give DKs and Templar some form of class escape abilities?
The question is whether you are going to blindly wait 3 months to run your query to fix the imbalance then or proactively find a way to fix it before Imperial City launches. As it stands, you can't give me one reason why I shouldn't reroll to Sorc or NB for Imperial City.
V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)
2
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traigusb14_ESO2✭✭✭✭✭Well the place looks packed with monsters...
So it isn't just zipping past people into empty fields.
You are going to escape into mobs if not on first cast, probably on second.
Unless you are just down the hallway from your safezone/vendors. I don't see you having a lot of luck.
Might have issues with people suicide to mobs for 10% stone loss over 100% to player loss. Mob death will also give you repair costs though.
Edited by traigusb14_ESO2 on July 17, 2015 9:40PM1 -
MoeCoastie✭✭✭As an NB, looking at some of the footage I see an aoe and npc aggro nightmare. Close quarters is not too inviting for a stealther.0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭Have you already forgot the newest nerf they are making to BE??
Or, yeah, go ahead, reroll a sorc and learn. lol
Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭Technically snipe NBs will be able to OHKO players from stealth, loot, restealth and run away in less than 10s. Sorcs at least remain exposed when bolting and lack a true OHKO skill. That being said with the changes coming in 1.7 I think NBs will be the biggest threat given the cluttered sightlines and 3s unbreakable stealth.1 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Have you already forgot the newest nerf they are making to BE??
Or, yeah, go ahead, reroll a sorc and learn. lol
A nerfed bolt escape is still better than Templar and DK have. The nerf is mostly just a theorycrafting issue. I am sure that someone will theorycraft their way past the nerf shortly after beta hits.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)2 -
Pirhana7_ESO✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »Note: I don't have an issue with the Telvar Stone System. In fact, I like it. It is probably one of the most hardcore PvP mechanics I've seen in a MMO game in a while. Almost no one allows you to kill players and actually take their stuff anymore.
My problem is the imbalance of escape mechanics among the classes. With this new system, having the ability to escape combat is going to be the most important thing. I guarantee you that after about 3 months if you run a query on your servers to show you which class has the most stones, it will be Nightblades and Sorcerers. Taking the Telvar Stone System into consideration, are there any plans to give DKs and Templar some form of class escape abilities?
The question is whether you are going to blindly wait 3 months to run your query to fix the imbalance then or proactively find a way to fix it before Imperial City launches. As it stands, you can't give me one reason why I shouldn't reroll to Sorc or NB for Imperial City.
So what is stopping you from returning to your alliances safe spot after 15 minutes and putting your stones in your bank so they are safe? You make it sound like you have to keep all your stones on you for a few weeks before you can buy the piece of gear you want... Just bank them after collecting 20 or so and you will never have to worry. Also understand that if you stay on your alliances side you will be much safer as you are near allies. Also consider playing inside more aggressively when your alliance has cut off access to the enemy alliances to the Imperial City. These are tacital and smart thing to consider when you gank or farm in IC.0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭My Sorcerer will likely end up a vampire with Mist as an escape after the next Bolt nerf.
So really, it comes down to Nightblade outperforming the rest.
If Detection potions stop going through Cloak, then Nightblade will be master of all in this case.
If Detection potions continue going through Cloak, then Nightblade will have a hard time because Imperial City does not have a broad area to break range in."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Teiji✭✭✭✭✭My Sorcerer will likely end up a vampire with Mist as an escape after the next Bolt nerf.
So really, it comes down to Nightblade outperforming the rest.
If Detection potions stop going through Cloak, then Nightblade will be master of all in this case.
If Detection potions continue going through Cloak, then Nightblade will have a hard time because Imperial City does not have a broad area to break range in.
I only play Magicka roles in PvP so I can be efficient using only greater detection potion with the Alchemy Passive so I have 5, maybe 8 seconds down time? I forget the exact number on the downtime, but it's short and long enough to see Nightblades for 41 seconds."Serving Boethiah is Freedom, embracing heroism is Liberty, existing solely for noxiphilic sanguivoria is truth." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
European megaserver Fallout 4
Loyalist of Boethiah, heroism enthusiast, exposer of secrets, bless'ed of noxiphilic sanguivoria.
Nerf one grind, two more take its place; hail Gryndra!
I am a dank memer and satire enthusiast0 -
Halfwitte✭✭✭Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Note: I don't have an issue with the Telvar Stone System. In fact, I like it. It is probably one of the most hardcore PvP mechanics I've seen in a MMO game in a while. Almost no one allows you to kill players and actually take their stuff anymore.
My problem is the imbalance of escape mechanics among the classes. With this new system, having the ability to escape combat is going to be the most important thing. I guarantee you that after about 3 months if you run a query on your servers to show you which class has the most stones, it will be Nightblades and Sorcerers. Taking the Telvar Stone System into consideration, are there any plans to give DKs and Templar some form of class escape abilities?
The question is whether you are going to blindly wait 3 months to run your query to fix the imbalance then or proactively find a way to fix it before Imperial City launches. As it stands, you can't give me one reason why I shouldn't reroll to Sorc or NB for Imperial City.
So what is stopping you from returning to your alliances safe spot after 15 minutes and putting your stones in your bank so they are safe? You make it sound like you have to keep all your stones on you for a few weeks before you can buy the piece of gear you want... Just bank them after collecting 20 or so and you will never have to worry. Also understand that if you stay on your alliances side you will be much safer as you are near allies. Also consider playing inside more aggressively when your alliance has cut off access to the enemy alliances to the Imperial City. These are tacital and smart thing to consider when you gank or farm in IC.
It costs 50 stones to bank any stones so if you try and bank 20 you lose them all to the fee.
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timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My Sorcerer will likely end up a vampire with Mist as an escape after the next Bolt nerf.
So really, it comes down to Nightblade outperforming the rest.
If Detection potions stop going through Cloak, then Nightblade will be master of all in this case.
If Detection potions continue going through Cloak, then Nightblade will have a hard time because Imperial City does not have a broad area to break range in.
More like BE, BE, MF, MF, MF, BE, BE POT REPEAT with a Dark Exchange thrown in when convenient. .V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Pirhana7_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Note: I don't have an issue with the Telvar Stone System. In fact, I like it. It is probably one of the most hardcore PvP mechanics I've seen in a MMO game in a while. Almost no one allows you to kill players and actually take their stuff anymore.
My problem is the imbalance of escape mechanics among the classes. With this new system, having the ability to escape combat is going to be the most important thing. I guarantee you that after about 3 months if you run a query on your servers to show you which class has the most stones, it will be Nightblades and Sorcerers. Taking the Telvar Stone System into consideration, are there any plans to give DKs and Templar some form of class escape abilities?
The question is whether you are going to blindly wait 3 months to run your query to fix the imbalance then or proactively find a way to fix it before Imperial City launches. As it stands, you can't give me one reason why I shouldn't reroll to Sorc or NB for Imperial City.
So what is stopping you from returning to your alliances safe spot after 15 minutes and putting your stones in your bank so they are safe? You make it sound like you have to keep all your stones on you for a few weeks before you can buy the piece of gear you want... Just bank them after collecting 20 or so and you will never have to worry. Also understand that if you stay on your alliances side you will be much safer as you are near allies. Also consider playing inside more aggressively when your alliance has cut off access to the enemy alliances to the Imperial City. These are tacital and smart thing to consider when you gank or farm in IC.
It costs 50 stones to bank any stones so if you try and bank 20 you lose them all to the fee.
Thanks for the info, that cost does seem kinda high, but If they drop decently fast I don't see it taking more than 30 minutes to be bale to bank a bunch then0 -
traigusb14_ESO2✭✭✭✭✭Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Note: I don't have an issue with the Telvar Stone System. In fact, I like it. It is probably one of the most hardcore PvP mechanics I've seen in a MMO game in a while. Almost no one allows you to kill players and actually take their stuff anymore.
My problem is the imbalance of escape mechanics among the classes. With this new system, having the ability to escape combat is going to be the most important thing. I guarantee you that after about 3 months if you run a query on your servers to show you which class has the most stones, it will be Nightblades and Sorcerers. Taking the Telvar Stone System into consideration, are there any plans to give DKs and Templar some form of class escape abilities?
The question is whether you are going to blindly wait 3 months to run your query to fix the imbalance then or proactively find a way to fix it before Imperial City launches. As it stands, you can't give me one reason why I shouldn't reroll to Sorc or NB for Imperial City.
So what is stopping you from returning to your alliances safe spot after 15 minutes and putting your stones in your bank so they are safe? You make it sound like you have to keep all your stones on you for a few weeks before you can buy the piece of gear you want... Just bank them after collecting 20 or so and you will never have to worry. Also understand that if you stay on your alliances side you will be much safer as you are near allies. Also consider playing inside more aggressively when your alliance has cut off access to the enemy alliances to the Imperial City. These are tacital and smart thing to consider when you gank or farm in IC.
It costs 50 stones to bank any stones so if you try and bank 20 you lose them all to the fee.
Thanks for the info, that cost does seem kinda high, but If they drop decently fast I don't see it taking more than 30 minutes to be bale to bank a bunch then
No fee. they had one in testing and removed it.
It is now you just need at least 50 to deposit. no fee.
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k2blader✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »Have you already forgot the newest nerf they are making to BE??
Or, yeah, go ahead, reroll a sorc and learn. lol
A nerfed bolt escape is still better than Templar and DK have. The nerf is mostly just a theorycrafting issue. I am sure that someone will theorycraft their way past the nerf shortly after beta hits.
It's just crazy they are nerfing BE again and people are still crying about it.
Go vamp, or if you are so unhappy with your DK/templar, you'll probably want to reroll NB.
Or, yeah.. go ahead and roll a sorc and do the stuff you feel will work.. -_-Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭My Sorcerer will likely end up a vampire with Mist as an escape after the next Bolt nerf.
So really, it comes down to Nightblade outperforming the rest.
If Detection potions stop going through Cloak, then Nightblade will be master of all in this case.
If Detection potions continue going through Cloak, then Nightblade will have a hard time because Imperial City does not have a broad area to break range in.
I only play Magicka roles in PvP so I can be efficient using only greater detection potion with the Alchemy Passive so I have 5, maybe 8 seconds down time? I forget the exact number on the downtime, but it's short and long enough to see Nightblades for 41 seconds.
My Magicka builds use a Potion Cooldown Reduction glyph in order to keep 100% uptime on Detection potions.
There has been talk for the past month or two that ZOS plans to make it so Detection Potions no longer see through Cloak at all though.
This is what my post was referencing.
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »My Sorcerer will likely end up a vampire with Mist as an escape after the next Bolt nerf.
So really, it comes down to Nightblade outperforming the rest.
If Detection potions stop going through Cloak, then Nightblade will be master of all in this case.
If Detection potions continue going through Cloak, then Nightblade will have a hard time because Imperial City does not have a broad area to break range in.
More like BE, BE, MF, MF, MF, BE, BE POT REPEAT with a Dark Exchange thrown in when convenient. .
So regular cost, large cost, three casts of a skill that kills my Magicka Regen, regular cost, large cost, use a potion and Dark Exchange to try and refill and hope no one CCs me with my utter lack of Stamina.
Nah, I'm going to stick to just Mist.
It works for my Templar, it works for my Dragonknight, it will work for my Sorcerer."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Xendyn✭✭✭✭✭
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It costs 50 stones to bank any stones so if you try and bank 20 you lose them all to the fee.
No
You Don't!
Stop spreading misinformation. He spent 5 min talking about they didn't like that so they changed it to a 50 minimum to bank them.
You have 49 stones, no bank. You have 50 stones, you can bank them no fee.
There Is No Fee for Banking The StonesLag is ruinin' my 'mershun!
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance - Socrates
Member of the Old Guard, keepers of the game's history
PC/NA0 -
Xendyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Now as to the topic...
I foresee a boom business for Invis potsLag is ruinin' my 'mershun!
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance - Socrates
Member of the Old Guard, keepers of the game's history
PC/NA0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
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It costs 50 stones to bank any stones so if you try and bank 20 you lose them all to the fee.
No
You Don't!
Stop spreading misinformation. He spent 5 min talking about they didn't like that so they changed it to a 50 minimum to bank them.
You have 49 stones, no bank. You have 50 stones, you can bank them no fee.
There Is No Fee for Banking The Stones
It is pretty much the same effect with regard to the argument that Pirhana7_ESO made about just banking them rapidly every time you get 20. Whether a fee or a limit, you still have to undergo a minimum of danger. That danger is reduced for Nightblades and Sorcerers.timidobserver wrote: »Have you already forgot the newest nerf they are making to BE??
Or, yeah, go ahead, reroll a sorc and learn. lol
A nerfed bolt escape is still better than Templar and DK have. The nerf is mostly just a theorycrafting issue. I am sure that someone will theorycraft their way past the nerf shortly after beta hits.
It's just crazy they are nerfing BE again and people are still crying about it.
Go vamp, or if you are so unhappy with your DK/templar, you'll probably want to reroll NB.
Or, yeah.. go ahead and roll a sorc and do the stuff you feel will work.. -_-
It is pretty much a fact, obviously not taking unknown information into consideration, that Nightblades and Sorcerers have an advantage over Templar and Dragonknights in Imperial City. The size of the advantage is debatable, but the existence of the advantage really isn't even debatable. Nerfed Class Escape Mechanic > No Class Escape mechanic.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
traigusb14_ESO2✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »
It costs 50 stones to bank any stones so if you try and bank 20 you lose them all to the fee.
No
You Don't!
Stop spreading misinformation. He spent 5 min talking about they didn't like that so they changed it to a 50 minimum to bank them.
You have 49 stones, no bank. You have 50 stones, you can bank them no fee.
There Is No Fee for Banking The Stones
It is pretty much the same effect with regard to the argument that Pirhana7_ESO made about just banking them rapidly every time you get 20. Whether a fee or a limit, you still have to undergo a minimum of danger. That danger is reduced for Nightblades and Sorcerers.timidobserver wrote: »Have you already forgot the newest nerf they are making to BE??
Or, yeah, go ahead, reroll a sorc and learn. lol
A nerfed bolt escape is still better than Templar and DK have. The nerf is mostly just a theorycrafting issue. I am sure that someone will theorycraft their way past the nerf shortly after beta hits.
It's just crazy they are nerfing BE again and people are still crying about it.
Go vamp, or if you are so unhappy with your DK/templar, you'll probably want to reroll NB.
Or, yeah.. go ahead and roll a sorc and do the stuff you feel will work.. -_-
It is pretty much a fact, obviously not taking unknown information into consideration, that Nightblades and Sorcerers have an advantage over Templar and Dragonknights in Imperial City. The size of the advantage is debatable, but the existence of the advantage really isn't even debatable. Nerfed Class Escape Mechanic > No Class Escape mechanic.
They are still not going to be escaping into empty space like Cyrodil
Mobs all over the place.
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JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭timidobserver wrote: »Taking the Telvar Stone System into consideration, are there any plans to give DKs and Templar some form of class escape abilities?
But if everyone could bail out of PvP, which they would do the moment they would start losing, PvP would not happen at all and would be replaced with just endless chains of bail-outs.
There must be some mechanism to prevent this. I suggest ZOS introduces e.g. Scroll of Heroic Maneuver into the crown store, so that only the better people would be able to valiantly escape certain death and humiliation from hands of more skilled players.0
