Idea on Tel Var Stones Diminished Loot Returns for Griefers
Korozenn
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There's obviously a huge upheaval to the 100% TV Stone loss upon death in IC. This will likely cause griefing to be at an all time high. So, I've come up with an idea and wanted to run this through everyone and the people at ZOS to see what you all think to see if we can test a fix when this comes to the PTS later on.
Overall, I think the best way to meet us at a compromise with a system like this is to first test the grounds at 100% on the PTS. Let everyone test it out, see what does and doesn't work out, and we'll let you know. But I'm thinking here that it makes more sense to award players MORE TV Stones from their enemies the bigger the risk they take (as in, encouraging 1:1 or 1:2 ratios for fights other than 20:1).
In other words, to have a system in place where the greater the risk, the better the output.
Would you guys rather see this implemented? In what way would you like to see this reflected number-wise for Tel Var Stones, if so?
Discuss.
Overall, I think the best way to meet us at a compromise with a system like this is to first test the grounds at 100% on the PTS. Let everyone test it out, see what does and doesn't work out, and we'll let you know. But I'm thinking here that it makes more sense to award players MORE TV Stones from their enemies the bigger the risk they take (as in, encouraging 1:1 or 1:2 ratios for fights other than 20:1).
In other words, to have a system in place where the greater the risk, the better the output.
Would you guys rather see this implemented? In what way would you like to see this reflected number-wise for Tel Var Stones, if so?
Discuss.
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Korozenn✭✭✭✭But I'm thinking here that it makes more sense to award players MORE TV Stones from their enemies the bigger the risk they take (as in, encouraging 1:1 or 1:2 ratios for fights other than 20:1).
By the way, I mean that it wouldn't ever go any higher than 100% to avoid exploits like mentioned in the ESO Live stream by Eric Wrobel, but that 100% loot return on TVS would be possible by doing this and taking the risk. ^
The modifer itself would just go up to 100% other than the lower one that most people want to see implemented for fights that are clearly outnumbered or on par with the number of players from both or all three factions.Edited by Korozenn on July 17, 2015 10:42PM0 -
Tholian1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the amount rewarded should be random and sometimes you just get a "foul hide" like you do while hunting the wildlife for materials. But I agree that 20:1 should have very little reward.PS4 Pro NA0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways.[1] A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer
Diminishing returns will not reduce instances of griefing, and people are not griefing simply for killing you over and over to get your stones, if that is the way the game mechanics are designed to be used."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Korozenn✭✭✭✭I think the amount rewarded should be random and sometimes you just get a "foul hide" like you do while hunting the wildlife for materials. But I agree that 20:1 should have very little reward.
Yeah, it's instances like 20:1 where the problem would most spring up.A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways.[1] A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer
Diminishing returns will not reduce instances of griefing, and people are not griefing simply for killing you over and over to get your stones, if that is the way the game mechanics are designed to be used.
I'm sorry, but if a raid of 24+ people going through IC to kill groups of 4 people (6:1) and less (24:1) cause us to drop all of our Tel Var Stones, then there is definitely a cause for concern there. I don't care what you want to call it, whether you prefer the term ganking or griefing, but it is certainly griefing in my eyes.
It's an annoyance.
If I spend over two hours collecting TVS, just to lose them all to a large gank party of 24 people when I'm by myself and can't escape them, they shouldn't get all of my TVS. Period. End of story.
The current system just completely eliminates the reason to take risks and encourages even more zergs.0 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Again if you watched the ESO live stream loosing 100% of your stones is not the final call. #Wheebler said when PTS drops they will be changing the lost rate and the prices of the gear also. So jumping the gun with the over reactions about the lost rate here.0 -
Ahzek✭✭✭✭✭
✭If groups of 24 people running around in IC only to farm stone off of players sounds as unappealing to you as it does to me i would take a look at this thread and give my opinion there:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196808/imperial-city-idea
Seems like a very simple system to cut those huge train groups of from their reason to actually run around in huge grps (the big reward and safety).
Edited by Ahzek on July 17, 2015 11:13PMJo'Khaljor0 -
Pallmor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't care what you want to call it, whether you prefer the term ganking or griefing, but it is certainly griefing in my eyes.
The ZOS guy actually called it ganking in the podcast. But yeah, same thing. Still can't believe they're INTENTIONALLY ENCOURAGING ganking.
I wanted something to revitalize ESO, but not this way.
Edited by Pallmor on July 17, 2015 11:15PM0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think the amount rewarded should be random and sometimes you just get a "foul hide" like you do while hunting the wildlife for materials. But I agree that 20:1 should have very little reward.
Yeah, it's instances like 20:1 where the problem would most spring up.A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways.[1] A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer
Diminishing returns will not reduce instances of griefing, and people are not griefing simply for killing you over and over to get your stones, if that is the way the game mechanics are designed to be used.
I'm sorry, but if a raid of 24+ people going through IC to kill groups of 4 people (6:1) and less (24:1) cause us to drop all of our Tel Var Stones, then there is definitely a cause for concern there. I don't care what you want to call it, whether you prefer the term ganking or griefing, but it is certainly griefing in my eyes.
It's an annoyance.
If I spend over two hours collecting TVS, just to lose them all to a large gank party of 24 people when I'm by myself and can't escape them, they shouldn't get all of my TVS. Period. End of story.
The current system just completely eliminates the reason to take risks and encourages even more zergs.
Yes they should. That is how the system is designed.
You made poor decisions (farming solo in a known high risk area) and paid the price (got killed and lost your drops that you didn't bother to bank for safety).
You can say that you dislike the design of the system, or find the design of the system annoying; however, by definition it is not griefing. Misrepresenting the issue as such is more detrimental than productive.
Ganking, yes. Griefing, no.
In terms of the sentiment you have against ganking; can agree that people running in large groups should get diminishing returns for being in large groups. Already suspect they will since each player killed will have a limited number of drops.
Honestly expecting it to be set up similar to GTA:Online -- the player does not begin dropping cash when killed by enemy players unless he or she is carrying over 5000 on person. Cash can be banked for safety, and almost all shops in the game accept money directly from bank.
They already have limits on when it can be banked, would not be surprised if they put limits on when it can be dropped as well.
If not -- that is a system they need to consider."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't care what you want to call it, whether you prefer the term ganking or griefing, but it is certainly griefing in my eyes.
The ZOS guy actually called it ganking in the podcast. But yeah, same thing. Still can't believe they're INTENTIONALLY ENCOURAGING ganking.
I wanted something to revitalize ESO, but not this way.
ZOS has been intentionally encouraging ganking since they implemented blanket AoE caps."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Korozenn✭✭✭✭I think the amount rewarded should be random and sometimes you just get a "foul hide" like you do while hunting the wildlife for materials. But I agree that 20:1 should have very little reward.
Yeah, it's instances like 20:1 where the problem would most spring up.A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways.[1] A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer
Diminishing returns will not reduce instances of griefing, and people are not griefing simply for killing you over and over to get your stones, if that is the way the game mechanics are designed to be used.
I'm sorry, but if a raid of 24+ people going through IC to kill groups of 4 people (6:1) and less (24:1) cause us to drop all of our Tel Var Stones, then there is definitely a cause for concern there. I don't care what you want to call it, whether you prefer the term ganking or griefing, but it is certainly griefing in my eyes.
It's an annoyance.
If I spend over two hours collecting TVS, just to lose them all to a large gank party of 24 people when I'm by myself and can't escape them, they shouldn't get all of my TVS. Period. End of story.
The current system just completely eliminates the reason to take risks and encourages even more zergs.
Yes they should. That is how the system is designed.
You made poor decisions (farming solo in a known high risk area) and paid the price (got killed and lost your drops that you didn't bother to bank for safety).
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In terms of the sentiment you have against ganking; can agree that people running in large groups should get diminishing returns for being in large groups. Already suspect they will since each player killed will have a limited number of drops.
It's obviously an exaggeration that anyone would be entering the Imperial City to do such by themselves. The point is to focus more on the ratios rather than anything else.
Yes, it may not be griefing to you, and it's good to see you have your own opinion on the take as well. But there are guilds forming and getting ready to gank the hell out of Imperial City now and the minute players start losing a lot of Tel Var Stones from dying once from a party of 24+ Players from one faction because they were in a 4-Man will be the day people either a) turn towards doing nothing but ganking parties themselves or b) just stop playing in the Imperial City altogether.
To many of us, it is extremely frustrating to go through all of that. Ganking or griefing, the term of it doesn't matter.
The point is that if players were to lose less Tel Var Stones if heavily outnumbered in a situation like that, there should be diminished loot returns for the opposing force, and the players who were killed off should lose less Tel Var Stones as they were at a disadvantage from the very outset of the fight. This was just one idea I had in mind to discourage that type of behavior.
And, yeah:In terms of the sentiment you have against ganking; can agree that people running in large groups should get diminishing returns for being in large groups. Already suspect they will since each player killed will have a limited number of drops.
If I recall correctly, the way it works right now is that 100% of your collected (not banked) TVS upon dying is distributed evenly towards all people who were a driving force behind your demise. So, in other words, the more people who stack up their DPS on you, the less and less TVS every single member of that gank will get from you.
As an example, if your party of four had 300 TVS in total and got ganked by 20 people equally (this is just an exaggeration), each of them would receive 15 TVS total. That is what it seems to be the case from what I heard Eric mention during ESO Live. Still...100% of TVS lost. I still don't know how to feel about it. But I will be able to form a better opinion by the time the IC update goes live on the PTS, hopefully. Edited by Korozenn on July 17, 2015 11:44PM0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes, it may not be griefing to you, and it's good to see you have your own opinion on the take as well. But there are guilds forming and getting ready to gank the hell out of Imperial City now and the minute players start losing a lot of Tel Var Stones from dying once from a party of 24+ Players from one faction because they were in a 4-Man will be the day people either a) turn towards doing nothing but ganking parties themselves or b) just stop playing in the Imperial City altogether.
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It is not a matter of opinion; by definition it is not griefing.
Misrepresenting it by calling it griefing does no benefit to your cause.
ZOS knows how they programmed the game, and saying that players playing the game as it was programmed means they are griefing is against the definition of what griefing is.
Speaking as someone involved with another gaming company -- posts like yours are difficult to take seriously as concerns, because they do not reflect an accurate understanding of what an intended mechanic is.
The fact that you do not like how the system works does not make it into griefing. You can however hold the opinion that it is an annoying style of gameplay and that you want to see it changed....
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And, yeah:In terms of the sentiment you have against ganking; can agree that people running in large groups should get diminishing returns for being in large groups. Already suspect they will since each player killed will have a limited number of drops.
If I recall correctly, the way it works right now is that 100% of your collected (not banked) TVS upon dying is distributed evenly towards all people who were a driving force behind your demise. So, in other words, the more people who stack up their DPS on you, the less and less TVS every single member of that gank will get from you.
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Then the system is fine.
People already zerg in Cyrodiil and gank smaller groups without stones present.
Devising a system to decrease their stones further won't change anything.
Most likely the group would just kill you each time you respawn until they get them all, or so that you never have enough stones to be able to bank them.
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Korozenn✭✭✭✭
Then the system is fine....
Yes, it may not be griefing to you, and it's good to see you have your own opinion on the take as well. But there are guilds forming and getting ready to gank the hell out of Imperial City now and the minute players start losing a lot of Tel Var Stones from dying once from a party of 24+ Players from one faction because they were in a 4-Man will be the day people either a) turn towards doing nothing but ganking parties themselves or b) just stop playing in the Imperial City altogether.
...
People already zerg in Cyrodiil and gank smaller groups without stones present.
Devising a system to decrease their stones further won't change anything.
Most likely the group would just kill you each time you respawn until they get them all, or so that you never have enough stones to be able to bank them.
Yeah, that's why I'd like to test it out on the PTS first. I don't personally have issues with getting ganked anymore in Cyrodiil like I used to be back in beta tests. I tend to take the scenic routes of Cyrodiil to get from Point A to Point B when soloing, but I almost always travel with a group of four now, at the very least. I've noticed there are less people in said areas, which helps when I just feel like exploring for the heck of it.
Something like this sounds absurd on paper, but it'll most likely make far more sense when we see it in action. Which is why it is definitely important to go storm the PTS when the Imperial City gets onto it. lolEdited by Korozenn on July 18, 2015 12:03AM0