"Disagree" Post Option.

Azurulia · July 2015

So with me being new to the game and these forums, one thing that boggles my mind is how there is an agree, insightful and awesome post "rating", yet there is no "Disagree" option. To which I ask, why not?

I understand the whole "Maintaining a positive and healthy environment." However by there being no option to silently disagree with something, you have to vocally disagree, which can often be very negative. If I disagree with something that seems to have a bit of agrees and such I feel obligated to post and speak against it, where as I would have just thumbs down, clicked disagree or whatever and just moved on.

There are discussions and opinions that I disagree with and would rather not partake in an open discussion with them, as they can get ugly or very lengthy; yet I still "voice" my opinion, if that makes sense.

So I ask, can we have a simple "disagree" option for posts? And if not, why?

[Deleted User] · July 2015

The user and all related content has been deleted.

danovic · July 2015

Because disagree button would just be trolling. Stating why you disagree would be constructive input.

Akavir_Sentinel · July 2015

There used to be, but unfortunately we live in a pansy politically correct world where you might hurt someone's feelings, and it was removed.

PBpsy · July 2015

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

There used to be, but unfortunately we live in a pansy politically correct world where you might hurt someone's feelings, and it was removed.

I would use the disagree button but since I agree.... I just pushed agree. Very intriguing.

Banky71 · July 2015

*disagree*

All I do is hit agree and then when the person get's excited that someone agrees with them I take it away. It's a very powerful statement.

driosketch · July 2015

Go to the responses.
Find the posts by people who disagree with OP.
Click agree on those posts.

Success!

[Deleted User] · July 2015

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Rakshat · July 2015

Banky71 wrote: »

*disagree*

All I do is hit agree and then when the person get's excited that someone agrees with them I take it away. It's a very powerful statement.

You don't get notified each time someone 'agrees' your post and I doubt anyone checks all their comments for agrees-_-

Sithisvoid · July 2015

Yeah kind of defeats the purpose of votes if the vote can only go up. What if many people disagree but don't feel like commenting and starting a flame war?

Banky71 · July 2015

Spectral_Lord wrote: »

Banky71 wrote: »

*disagree*

All I do is hit agree and then when the person get's excited that someone agrees with them I take it away. It's a very powerful statement.

You must have Divine-like senses if you know when someone gets excited when they get an agree.

It's true. I don't mean to brag or toot my own horn but *toot toot*

Xendyn · July 2015

There used to be one, they took it out because people would just click "disagree" instead of posting a contribution to the discussion.
Also used to be a LOL button.

ShedsHisTail · July 2015

danovic wrote: »

Because disagree button would just be trolling. Stating why you disagree would be constructive input.

Pretty much this.
There's not a lot of point in reiterating a statement or just saying "me too" in regards to something you agree with, so an "Agree" button does the job nicely. However, if you disagree with something you should explain why in order to promote discussion.

If someone just blindly disagrees with no explanation it doesn't help anyone, the mods don't get to see both sides of the discussion/issue, etc.

While I'm sure it helps in keeping the vibes positive around here by not having a disagree button; I think the larger purpose is to make both sides of the discussion visible so devs or moderators can see where either side is coming from and take both sides of the story into account.

[Deleted User] · July 2015

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Banky71 · July 2015

Xendyn wrote: »

There used to be one, they took it out because people would just click "disagree" instead of posting a contribution to the discussion.
Also used to be a LOL button.

Now we get posts with people saying I disagree and LOL. I'm okay with that.

Azurulia · July 2015

danovic wrote: »

Because disagree button would just be trolling. Stating why you disagree would be constructive input.

And clicking awesome on a "troll" post is different?

The idea of a disagree button is that you disagree with it. Now "dislike" or "Thumbs down" would be different.

If people saw agree vs disagree its much better feedback than option posts because you get solid numbers, rather than poo flinging. Having a way to silently disagree with soemthign is just as important as being able to silently agree. This is simply for the sake of feedback and showing who agrees or disagrees with something.

Lets say there is a post about a suggestion or an opinion on something. There could be 30 people who agree and 2 who click awesome. Then if you go into the actual post, you will find 10 more (likely those who clicked agree) posting in favor or defense of said suggestion or idea. While there are only 5 who post against it.

This is very unhealthy for a number of reasons. People can be intimidated to speak out against "The majority." This same post with 30 agrees could very well have 20 disagrees, or 40, just people don't want to speak up against all those who agree, because they worry about being attacked as the odd man out.

Because, come on. we have all seen it before. A thread could go on for pages of agreement or one side of an opinion, but the moment someone finally speaks up in objection, in comes the other side, finally. This is part of human nature and the social norm. This wouldn't be such an issue if you could see both agree and disagree numbers side by side. I've never liked the whole thumbs up and down system of rating because they counter each other out. You have no way of knowing if that +5 is because of 5 people, or 100 people with one side just happening to come out 5 up on the opposition.

The ability to "Disagree" something is not trolling, if anything it encourages other to "Agree" if they really do, to outweigh the disagrees. Silent battles can be a lot less ugly than vocal ones, yet still give great feedback.

I could go on to further stress the point, but I hope people get the idea of what I am trying to say here.

ZOS_GinaBruno · July 2015

For what it's worth, we are exploring the possibility of bringing the Disagree button back.

Samadhi · July 2015

There was a disagree; it was taken away back in Beta due to "misuse."

There was also a LOL that was used as an informal disagree/"this post sucks"; however, people would spam them on moderator and dev posts that they felt were out of touch or insulting to the community, so that button was also removed due to "misuse."

If you disagree with someone, make a scathing post filled with thinly veiled insults.
Rather than calling a poster wrong or stupid, point out why his or her ideas are wrong or stupid -- that way your post will be within the rules and the person can still feel horribly self-conscious.

Akavir_Sentinel · July 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

For what it's worth, we are exploring the possibility of bringing the Disagree button back.

Good. It will help to put an end to the flame wars and thread locks that have taken place since it's removal.

Samadhi · July 2015

Rakshat wrote: »

Banky71 wrote: »

*disagree*

All I do is hit agree and then when the person get's excited that someone agrees with them I take it away. It's a very powerful statement.

You don't get notified each time someone 'agrees' your post and I doubt anyone checks all their comments for agrees-_-

Actually, for roughly 24-48 hours after making a post I personally periodically check back in throughout the day to see what my tallies may be.
I do this on every post I make. It can become massively time consuming and detrimental.

OCD ruins lives.
http://www.ocdtypes.com/checking-ocd.php

Banky71 · July 2015

I don't like the idea of a disagree button. I just want everyone to either agree with me or let me assume they agree with me.

DenMoria · July 2015

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

danovic wrote: »

Because disagree button would just be trolling. Stating why you disagree would be constructive input.

Pretty much this.
There's not a lot of point in reiterating a statement or just saying "me too" in regards to something you agree with, so an "Agree" button does the job nicely. However, if you disagree with something you should explain why in order to promote discussion.

If someone just blindly disagrees with no explanation it doesn't help anyone, the mods don't get to see both sides of the discussion/issue, etc.

While I'm sure it helps in keeping the vibes positive around here by not having a disagree button; I think the larger purpose is to make both sides of the discussion visible so devs or moderators can see where either side is coming from and take both sides of the story into account.

But I want to know "why" someone agrees with me. Nobody ever agrees with me so such an aberration holds endless fascination for me!

Azurulia · July 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

For what it's worth, we are exploring the possibility of bringing the Disagree button back.

It is worth a lot, thank you for commenting.

I'm right there with the mod team as far as moderation and keeping a healthy forum environment goes, however I am concerned about only 1 side having the ability to silently speak up. This essentially doesn't accomplish much for opinions, discussions or debates.

Because sometimes people really don't want to speak up against others, or even wait for a post of opposition, because they could very well not agree with what they have to say either, even if it does stand to counter the original statement, suggestion or opinion.

Things are not so black and white that you can simply wait and ride on another persons view to express your agreement or disagreement to the original message. Being able to directly disagree with a single posts message is very important.

DenMoria · July 2015

So, from what I'm getting:

You can "agree" with someone with no explanation, even though one is often needed

but you can't "disagree" with someone without giving an explanation? Why? I disagree with a lot of people, but, if I actually state why I disagree, I might get banned, cause someone's feelings got hurt?

I'm confused.

I thought "agreement" and "disagreement" were opinions and opinions don't need an explanation.

Azurulia · July 2015

DenMoria wrote: »

So, from what I'm getting:

You can "agree" with someone with no explanation, even though one is often needed

but you can't "disagree" with someone without giving an explanation? Why? I disagree with a lot of people, but, if I actually state why I disagree, I might get banned, cause someone's feelings got hurt?

I'm confused.

I thought "agreement" and "disagreement" were opinions and opinions don't need an explanation.

Right. Sometiems we would ratehr not give the reason why we agree or disagree with soemthing, but simply show that we do, in fact, agree or disagree. Now shoudl another person come along and post soemthign we agree with later that is clsoe to what we feel, we would then agree with them; or visa-versa.

Lurkers have a voice, too. It's just very, very quite and doesn't include a lot of words.

Samadhi · July 2015

Azurulia wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

For what it's worth, we are exploring the possibility of bringing the Disagree button back.

It is worth a lot, thank you for commenting.

I'm right there with the mod team as far as moderation and keeping a healthy forum environment goes, however I am concerned about only 1 side having the ability to silently speak up. This essentially doesn't accomplish much for opinions, discussions or debates.

Because sometimes people really don't want to speak up against others, or even wait for a post of opposition, because they could very well not agree with what they have to say either, even if it does stand to counter the original statement, suggestion or opinion.

Things are not so black and white that you can simply wait and ride on another persons view to express your agreement or disagreement to the original message. Being able to directly disagree with a single posts message is very important.

This is me. A lot.
Avoidance is a big issue for me.
Prefer not to engage in confrontations over everything, as it can be quite stressful for me to get involved in some threads.
Similarily, am aware that my forum personality can be very caustic at times, and some players may not wish to speak up against me directly in order to avoid confrontation with me.

A disagree button allows such players to feel they have a voice within the community.
We, as players, are aware that ZOS watches the forums -- there are ideas that are posted that we may not want to support, or may not be popular, that players simply do not wish to engage in arguments over.
A disagree or downvote feature mitigates this, though it comes with associated possibilities of misuse. ZOS seems to have a sufficient tracking system to discern misuse from valid use though, or else neither feature would have been noted and removed to begin with.
Do not like that my only recourse to individuals posting bad ideas is to engage in debates that may not warrant my time. Some players are very attached to their perceptions of how things should work, and it can be time consuming to even simply explain to them why things cannot work that way.

TequilaFire · July 2015

I disagree with people who disagree with the disagree button.

[Deleted User] · July 2015

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Azurulia · July 2015

Spectral_Lord wrote: »

LOL button needs to be brought back though.

Rather than a "LOL" button, a simple "Funny" or something along those lines would be better, as it is less troll fuel.

TequilaFire wrote: »

I disagree with people who disagree with the disagree button.

Whoa... that's deep, man.

arena25 · July 2015

For those who are wondering what happened to the disagree button, it was removed in beta. The LOL button was also removed later down the road. I want both buttons back, and have already started a thread about bringing back the LOL button. Link below:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/169354/should-the-eso-forums-bring-back-the-lol-reactions/p1

As for the disagree button...as the French almost said about the guillotine, "Bring me back my disagreement."

Edit: Also, a far simpler system would be to use just pure upvotes and downvotes like what TERA has for their forums. Let me link a thread (note: It's the first thread I clicked on, and only look at the upvote-downvote, not the post content)...

http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/general-discussion/topics/On-Crusade-Rankings

And no, I'm not attempting to advertise TERA in any way, I'm just suggesting a pure upvote-downvote system like what TERA had...

J2JMC · July 2015

Azurulia wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

For what it's worth, we are exploring the possibility of bringing the Disagree button back.

It is worth a lot, thank you for commenting.

I'm right there with the mod team as far as moderation and keeping a healthy forum environment goes, however I am concerned about only 1 side having the ability to silently speak up. This essentially doesn't accomplish much for opinions, discussions or debates.

Because sometimes people really don't want to speak up against others, or even wait for a post of opposition, because they could very well not agree with what they have to say either, even if it does stand to counter the original statement, suggestion or opinion.

Things are not so black and white that you can simply wait and ride on another persons view to express your agreement or disagreement to the original message. Being able to directly disagree with a single posts message is very important.

I find the bolded to be false as the system works both ways. If me and you both post opinions that are opposite of each other, anyone reading can click agree on the one that expresses their opinion. The disagree button promotes only one side speaking up more than the current system imo. Everyone who agrees will ciclejerk each other in the thread while everyone who disagrees won't say anything. Also, the disagree button doesn't allow for an explanation of why you disagree with something. Valid points which could make OP change their mind may not be expressed. On the other hand, the agree button seems to be more self-explanatory.