Acces to IC with home keeps will make Cyro incredibly stale

bertenburnyb16_ESO · July 2015

So it is stated by Zos they are thinking of making acces to the IC available to the alliance which has its home keeps ( or + 1 enemy keep)
if they implement it like this, this is what will happen:
- option A: home keeps only required
nobody will bother taking keeps anymore, only some dedicated pvp players if they even can get a group together in Cyro because the Q's will be gigantic, and if they take an enemy keep, it will be immediatly be taken back since that alliance doesnt have acces anymore to IC, and so players dyin in IC will have to spawn back in Cyro meaning they will have the most players in Cyro and all of them will focus their lost keep.

- option B: home keeps + 1 enemy keep
all pvp action in cyro will be focusses at the keeps around IC, blues will only push chalman or Roe, yellows will only push Ash or BRK, reds will only push Allesia or Ales (quickest to travel to from outposts, the mindless mob follows the path of least resistance), once they've taken an enemy keep, the majority of that alliances players will go IC, meaning they will be outnumbered in Cyro and then the other alliances will push back and round it goes with these keeps, but the rest of Cyro will be deserted

now the original idea of acces to IC, was to control all keeps around the IC (know as the inner ring, also the emperor keeps) lets call this option C
now option C would work really well in my opinion, it would still focus the action in the center of the map ofc, but would push players a bith further away than 1 keep
so say 1 alliance holds all the inner keeps, and get acces, so alot of players would flood to IC, leaving that alliance outnumbered in Cyro (since population between Cyro and IC is shared last I heard) this gives the other alliances a chance of taking the keeps, whichever allaince gains the inner keeps next, has alot of players travel to IC, and start fighting with the players of the first alliance in the IC, now this leaves the 3th alliance with more numbers in Cyro, and now they have the chance to take the inner keeps, in the mean time, players from the first alliance that die in IC, will have to spawn back in Cyro since they dont have acces anymore, meaning that by the time they are all driven out of IC, the third alliance will most likely have gained acces and are fighting the second alliance in IC, giving the first alliance its change again, this will drive the pvp in cyro the most, while the option A and B rather kill cyro pvp

now the other issue is Emp, since its also related to the inner keeps, this could be a good or bad thing, it may mean that the alliance with acces has a bit more resistance fighting off the other alliance while outnumbered, but it can also mean that the overpowered emp is in IC, or that an overpowered emp is holding one of the inner keeps against waves of solo pve heroes.
(fyi I'm not up to date with the changes that are comming to emp, dont really care about that, as a working man I've never been able to get close to it since its a no-lifer-system)
anyhow since it will also be kinda impossible to get emp if they implement option A or B, and with option C it overpowers the alliance with acces, I would propose to tie gettin Emp with something else than the 6 inner keeps, maybe something with the scrolls or something, to incite some pvp outside of the inner ring of Cyro

/end wall of text

discuss

bertenburnyb16_ESO · July 2015

bump

also people fearing with option C it would create buff campains, 2 remarks:
1. since the alliance with acces will have less people in cyro since alot will go to IC, they can easilly be outmanned by the other factions
2. since theres only 4 campains (PC), and we dont know the exact number, but it wont be alot more than 100 per alliance, but lets take 200 as the extreme, so that means max 800 people per alliance can can be fighting to get acces, so especially the months after release they will all be packed, have a buff campain per ailliance would be unrealistic

bertenburnyb16_ESO · July 2015

.... really noone....

lemme simplify stuff for y'all

acces to IC
- option A Home keeps only => bye bye pvp in Cyro => bad
- option B Home keeps +1 enemy keep => minimal pvp => still bad
- option C Inner ring keeps => a contionious circle of pvp remains giving alliances each their turn to enter IC

extra: emp needs changing

READ ABOVE!

Leandor · July 2015

Just one question: Do you want to have PvP in IC or just PvDoor 2.0? If you want to go for option one, make sure you don't restrict access to IC. If you want option 2, go ahead with any of your choices.

The Tel Var stone thing will make sure that Cyrodiil proper is empty anyways.

Sausage · July 2015

•Improved end-of-campaign Alliance War rewards

That probably means scrolls or keep capturing gives something now. But yeah, IC is going to be crowded, as its only place to get stones at launch, but I'd imagine no-lifers get best gears in 1 month or so.

NotSo · July 2015

The problem with needing all 6 inner keeps is the underdog will never gain access. If IC was not money gated (like zos was saying before b2p) then 6 inner keeps would be fine. But imagine thousands of buyers who can never find an opportunity to get inside IC... That's a disaster.

Good luck with your post. Stop bumping it.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · July 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Just one question: Do you want to have PvP in IC or just PvDoor 2.0?

The Tel Var stone thing will make sure that Cyrodiil proper is empty anyways.

I like pvp, slaughtering emenys left and right while taking stuff, so I would want the best possible system for acces (thats why I said A and B => bad in my last post, but it will be the choise of the PvE solo heroes ofc)

BBSooner · July 2015

Yeah, if no Cyrodiil pvp is needed you can bet it will be empty in favor of IC. Which is a shame.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · July 2015

NotSo wrote: »

The problem with needing all 6 inner keeps is the underdog will never gain access. If IC was not money gated (like zos was saying before b2p) then 6 inner keeps would be fine. But imagine thousands of buyers who can never find an opportunity to get inside IC... That's a disaster.

Good luck with your post. Stop bumping it.

have u read anything I said? -_-

in short, no it wont

MCMancub · July 2015

Neither of your options make much sense from a PvP perspective. The point of PvP is to control the most resources. I.C. will certainly be the most coveted of these resources, and the best way to ensure control is to lock out other factions by taking their home bases.

PvP now exists on multiple dimensions. You have the combined effort of defending your home keeps to remain in I.C. and capturing enemy home keeps to kick other factions out of I.C. There won't be a situation in which all factions just let each other have access to I.C., because then controlling I.C. is virtually impossible, and that's the main goal.

Then there are those PvP players who won't purchase I.C. and will always be fighting for keeps in Cyrodiil...

Leandor · July 2015

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Just one question: Do you want to have PvP in IC or just PvDoor 2.0?

The Tel Var stone thing will make sure that Cyrodiil proper is empty anyways.

I like pvp, slaughtering emenys left and right while taking stuff, so I would want the best possible system for acces (thats why I said A and B => bad in my last post, but it will be the choise of the PvE solo heroes ofc)

Well, since something as minor as former emperor buffs and 5% crit chance was enough to create buff campaigns, what do you think how "access to the whole end level content" will work as motivation for buff campaigns?

I am a PvP only player. My opinion is that giving access to only the emperor faction will completely kill PvP. That means, your option C is actually the worst possible option of all three options. The only good options will be a system that will make it difficult to lock out another faction. Following shameless re-post of my earlier post:

Leandor wrote: »

Xinz'r wrote: »

I have a question and an opinion on something.
My question is whether or not you will be able to conquer parts (districts) of Imperial city as your alliances' territory? I mean, will it be marked on map similiar to ownership of Cyrodiil keeps?
And opinion, I read that you are thinking about either allow access to all alliances, to those who keep their 6 home keeps, 6+1 or majority. I think that you should allow access to those who have their 6 base keeps because if you let everyone in it doesn't make sense, because it's supposed to be connected to Alliance war, so... And if you let 6+1 it would be easy to create monopol on IC on each server, and I hope you're not seriously thinking about allowing access only to those who control majority of keeps because Alliance war should also take place in Imperial city. I mean, aren't Imperial City and White-Gold Tower what alliances are actually fight for?

I have posted on this topic before, sadly I do not find the post anymore (damn my post rate). Even the "6 home keeps required" option is bad. it is very easy to lock out a faction by just having one of their keeps (the outliers - drakelowe, dragonclaw or brindle - being the prime targets here) and defend it.

I would rather have easy access to IC in order to actually have PvP inside IC than to have a severly limited access and have PvDoor 2.0 inside.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler please consider to add the option "You must have a direct port route from the faction's gate area to one of their emperor keeps" as access restriction. That way, two or three keeps, along with at least one of their respective resource nodes, is all a faction needs. This can be achieved even if outnumbered on a campaign.

Don't make buff campaigns a thing again after going to all that effort to stop it.

lathbury · July 2015

i trhink optiona will work as a faction getting thier but handed to them in IC will likely be sneaky and spawn in cyro and take a keep while the other factions are in there.

technohic · July 2015

At first IC will be new and everyone will be there trying to get stones. Actually; you could always try to sabotage the other factions from doing it by taking their keeps. I find that more concerning with lopsided campaigns as it will favor going to whatever is heavier populated with your faction to own a monopoly on IC there.

Once everyone gets the gear though; PvPers will seek out PvP.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · July 2015

Leandor wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Just one question: Do you want to have PvP in IC or just PvDoor 2.0?

The Tel Var stone thing will make sure that Cyrodiil proper is empty anyways.

I like pvp, slaughtering emenys left and right while taking stuff, so I would want the best possible system for acces (thats why I said A and B => bad in my last post, but it will be the choise of the PvE solo heroes ofc)

Well, since something as minor as former emperor buffs and 5% crit chance was enough to create buff campaigns, what do you think how "access to the whole end level content" will work as motivation for buff campaigns?

I am a PvP only player. My opinion is that giving access to only the emperor faction will completely kill PvP. That means, your option C is actually the worst possible option of all three options. The only good options will be a system that will make it difficult to lock out another faction. Following shameless re-post of my earlier post:

Leandor wrote: »

Xinz'r wrote: »

I have a question and an opinion on something.
My question is whether or not you will be able to conquer parts (districts) of Imperial city as your alliances' territory? I mean, will it be marked on map similiar to ownership of Cyrodiil keeps?
And opinion, I read that you are thinking about either allow access to all alliances, to those who keep their 6 home keeps, 6+1 or majority. I think that you should allow access to those who have their 6 base keeps because if you let everyone in it doesn't make sense, because it's supposed to be connected to Alliance war, so... And if you let 6+1 it would be easy to create monopol on IC on each server, and I hope you're not seriously thinking about allowing access only to those who control majority of keeps because Alliance war should also take place in Imperial city. I mean, aren't Imperial City and White-Gold Tower what alliances are actually fight for?

I have posted on this topic before, sadly I do not find the post anymore (damn my post rate). Even the "6 home keeps required" option is bad. it is very easy to lock out a faction by just having one of their keeps (the outliers - drakelowe, dragonclaw or brindle - being the prime targets here) and defend it.

I would rather have easy access to IC in order to actually have PvP inside IC than to have a severly limited access and have PvDoor 2.0 inside.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler please consider to add the option "You must have a direct port route from the faction's gate area to one of their emperor keeps" as access restriction. That way, two or three keeps, along with at least one of their respective resource nodes, is all a faction needs. This can be achieved even if outnumbered on a campaign.

Don't make buff campaigns a thing again after going to all that effort to stop it.

as I explained there wont be buff campains since
1. theres only max 800 people per alliance (spread over the 4 vet campains, and thats pushing it) which can get into Cyro anyways, months after release expect Q's to be horendous
2. if an alliance has acces by having the 6 inner keeps, most players will go to IC, and since populations is shared between Cyro and IC, they will be outnumbered, other aillaince, ... third alliance....circle ... round... each has their turn

anybody read anything?

BBSooner · July 2015

technohic wrote: »

Once everyone gets the gear though; PvPers will seek out PvP.

With IC being a smaller area, and required for PvE, it will be prime hunting for PvPers. Cyrodiil - if no requirement for participation is created - will be largely ignored in lieu of IC.

Leandor · July 2015

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

as I explained there wont be buff campains since
1. theres only max 800 people per campain (and thats pushing it) whi can get into Cyro anyways, months after release expect Q's to be horendous
2. if an alliance has acces by having the 6 inner keeps, most players will go to IC, and since populations is shared between Cyro and IC, they will be outnumbered, other aillaince, ... third alliance....

anybody read anything?

Of course I have read what you have written. That does not change the fact that I think you are completely wrong with the bolded part. Since losing access to IC will mean losing the possibility for getting the new equipment, every faction will make sure that they retain access.

Secondly, the only PvP happening in IC will then be the clearout of straglers after emperor flips. After that it will be pure PvE, since the other factions have no possibility to travel there.

No matter how often you restate your opinion, I will not share it. Same as vice versa, probably.

technohic · July 2015

BBSooner wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Once everyone gets the gear though; PvPers will seek out PvP.

With IC being a smaller area, and required for PvE, it will be prime hunting for PvPers. Cyrodiil - if no requirement for participation is created - will be largely ignored in lieu of IC.

Nah, it would be fun/funny to just take their keeps and keep them from getting in IC. At least for larger zergs. IC will however be a lot of fun for the small groups and gankers.

Just trying to speculate here of course. Any DAOC players who have experience with the supposed similar feature they had there on if this works similar at all?

Etaniel · July 2015

Option C as stated by Brian Wheeler is having the majority of keeps in Cyro, which is imo the best option.
Not all factions will have access at the same time, it ensures constant combat for the majority, so Cyrodil will never be empty and desolated.

Requiring control of the central keeps is too big of an effort imo, and you already get rewarded for that by crowning an emperor and getting your emperor buffs.

Having a majority of keeps is easy enough for PvErs so they don't have to cry about that big of a challenge, while still requiring a bit of faction coordination

bertenburnyb16_ESO · July 2015

Leandor wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

as I explained there wont be buff campains since
1. theres only max 800 people per campain (and thats pushing it) whi can get into Cyro anyways, months after release expect Q's to be horendous
2. if an alliance has acces by having the 6 inner keeps, most players will go to IC, and since populations is shared between Cyro and IC, they will be outnumbered, other aillaince, ... third alliance....

anybody read anything?

Of course I have read what you have written. That does not change the fact that I think you are completely wrong with the bolded part. Since losing access to IC will mean losing the possibility for getting the new equipment, every faction will make sure that they retain access.

Secondly, the only PvP happening in IC will then be the clearout of straglers after emperor flips. After that it will be pure PvE, since the other factions have no possibility to travel there.

No matter how often you restate your opinion, I will not share it. Same as vice versa, probably.

Well I don't know how that's physically possible, but sure, ok then

Hiero_Glyph · July 2015

Just keep the entrances to IC always open and let the players sort things out. Lost the keeps near the entrance? Better be ready to have it camped by an opposing alliance, but at least you can still get in. Besides, I thought the point of IC was PvP conflict in an urban environment with hostile mobs, not to lock out other alliances and make it a PvE environment. Besides, requiring control of keeps only promotes buff or carebear servers.

MCMancub · July 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

Option C as stated by Brian Wheeler is having the majority of keeps in Cyro, which is imo the best option.
Not all factions will have access at the same time, it ensures constant combat for the majority, so Cyrodil will never be empty and desolated.

Requiring control of the central keeps is too big of an effort imo, and you already get rewarded for that by crowning an emperor and getting your emperor buffs.

Having a majority of keeps is easy enough for PvErs so they don't have to cry about that big of a challenge, while still requiring a bit of faction coordination

It also means there would never be large scale PvP in I.C. though, right?

bertenburnyb16_ESO · July 2015

MCMancub wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Option C as stated by Brian Wheeler is having the majority of keeps in Cyro, which is imo the best option.
Not all factions will have access at the same time, it ensures constant combat for the majority, so Cyrodil will never be empty and desolated.

Requiring control of the central keeps is too big of an effort imo, and you already get rewarded for that by crowning an emperor and getting your emperor buffs.

Having a majority of keeps is easy enough for PvErs so they don't have to cry about that big of a challenge, while still requiring a bit of faction coordination

It also means there would never be large scale PvP in I.C. though, right?

When a new alliance gets acces, they can fight all the players of the alliance wich just lost it in IC

MCMancub · July 2015

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Option C as stated by Brian Wheeler is having the majority of keeps in Cyro, which is imo the best option.
Not all factions will have access at the same time, it ensures constant combat for the majority, so Cyrodil will never be empty and desolated.

Requiring control of the central keeps is too big of an effort imo, and you already get rewarded for that by crowning an emperor and getting your emperor buffs.

Having a majority of keeps is easy enough for PvErs so they don't have to cry about that big of a challenge, while still requiring a bit of faction coordination

It also means there would never be large scale PvP in I.C. though, right?

When a new alliance gets acces, they can fight all the players of the alliance wich just lost it in IC

I guess my point is this: it's been confirmed that there will be respawn locations in I.C. for each faction and can be used upon death provided your faction still has the ability to enter I.C. when you die. If the only time you can die from PvP (not referencing PvE here) is when your faction no longer can enter because another can, doesn't that make these respawn points useless? There would be large scale PvP, but only once. Under this system you've proposed, once you die, that's it until you can re-enter. That sounds like a bad system.

Vostorn · July 2015

I was mother thinking to something like

3 keeps : entrance to IC
2 keeps : can rez in IC shrine
1 keep : can only be rez by players
0 keep : players no longer can rez you

This way, at start, everyone has 2 keeps and can't enter.
One alliance takes a keep and enters IC : this allliance is outnumbered in Cyrodiil and will fast loose a keep.
Back to 2 keeps each, there is still an alliance outnumbered because of people in IC (otherwise, back to 1). This faction will easily loose its 2d keep, making it so their players can only be rez by players know and there is another alliance that can enter IC.
Last alliance now outnumbers both other alliances and can easily get to 3 keeps owned.

In addition, players with all 6 keeps can kick out every enemy in IC by killing them or kick a single alliance if not 6 keeps.

There can also be bigs fights in IC if 2 alliances controls 3 keeps.