Will Imperial City promote zerg gameplay?

Lionxoft · July 2015

With the introduction of the new stone/token currency (Which I like) there's also the chance to have them taken from you by other players. Wouldn't this promote larger groups and zerging? I might have misunderstood the marketing lingo and it's not the first time I've done that with the whole "Supports hundreds of players on the screen" thing which obviously wasn't true.

Along the way, collect Tel Var Stones, a new currency you can use to purchase powerful new alliance gear and other valuable items. But be warned! Players from other alliances also patrol the depths, and if they defeat you, your Tel Var Stones will be theirs to plunder!

I guess we will have to see how this plays out on PTS but I think that zerging will be the widely adopted gameplay style in order to keep your stones.

Sanct16 · July 2015

Lionxoft wrote: »

With the introduction of the new stone/token currency (Which I like) there's also the chance to have them taken from you by other players. Wouldn't this promote larger groups and zerging? I might have misunderstood the marketing lingo and it's not the first time I've done that with the whole "Supports hundreds of players on the screen" thing which obviously wasn't true.

Along the way, collect Tel Var Stones, a new currency you can use to purchase powerful new alliance gear and other valuable items. But be warned! Players from other alliances also patrol the depths, and if they defeat you, your Tel Var Stones will be theirs to plunder!

I guess we will have to see how this plays out on PTS but I think that zerging will be the widely adopted gameplay style in order to keep your stones.

Lets hope so.

Please my dear PvE friends, stack up so we can slaughter you!

bosmern_ESO · July 2015

That just means the gankers can target people in groups, and If the ganker can kill them thats a jackpot.

Lionxoft · July 2015

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

That just means the gankers can target people in groups, and If the ganker can kill them thats a jackpot.

Care to elaborate?

xaraan · July 2015

Yeah, this is going to be a benefit for players that just want to zerg or gank. Ganking I can see (though they may be making NBs a bit OP next patch) but they need to do more against zergs, not stuff to make it more beneficial to do so.

Xsorus · July 2015

It depends on how the currency system works, if it's based on death bliws Zerging will actually not be a good way to get it

GreySix · July 2015

While IC apparently has (and should have) a large PvP element to it, many PvE players are also looking forward to the expansion. They don't invest in PvP, nor do they have any intention of doing so.

IMO, a happy balance could be achieved by allowing PvP to be toggled on or off in the IC, with a cool-down of course to prevent abusing the process. PvE players having no intent to PvP would have to be gank-proof.

SWTOR uses something similar, and I imagine if the Justice System in PvE is ever fully fleshed out, they'd have to crack that nut anyway.

bosmern_ESO · July 2015

Lionxoft wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

That just means the gankers can target people in groups, and If the ganker can kill them thats a jackpot.

Care to elaborate?

If you are good at going in and killing someone very quickly, you follow a large group around that are farming AP/stones. Then when one of them get left behind enough you jump in and kill them as fast as possible then run. They'll have tons of stones and you'd get all the ones they just farmed.

Lionxoft · July 2015

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

That just means the gankers can target people in groups, and If the ganker can kill them thats a jackpot.

Care to elaborate?

If you are good at going in and killing someone very quickly, you follow a large group around that are farming AP/stones. Then when one of them get left behind enough you jump in and kill them as fast as possible then run. They'll have tons of stones and you'd get all the ones they just farmed.

Only for the rest of the zerg to see you do it and they take everything back. I think that banking these will need to be a possibility.

IxSTALKERxI · July 2015

Lionxoft wrote: »

I think that zerging will be the widely adopted gameplay style in order to keep your stones.

When I read the article I also came to the same conclusion. There is one variable though that could stop this and that is prox det. I'm presuming the sewers will be made up of narrow hallways which would be suicide for a large group if an enemy used prox det on them (scaling off number of targets hit).

Xsorus wrote: »

It depends on how the currency system works, if it's based on death bliws Zerging will actually not be a good way to get it

Yeah I agree that having to split up the stones up amongst everyone may lower the incentive to zerg. People will need to find a happy balance between safety by numbers and number of stones shared.

If it's based on killing blows, as a group you could get the dps to share the rewards amongst group members so long as the gear isn't bind on pickup. Guilds would be fine to work like this, however pick up groups (pugs) will be chaos if the system was to work like that.

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

That just means the gankers can target people in groups, and If the ganker can kill them thats a jackpot.

Care to elaborate?

If you are good at going in and killing someone very quickly, you follow a large group around that are farming AP/stones. Then when one of them get left behind enough you jump in and kill them as fast as possible then run. They'll have tons of stones and you'd get all the ones they just farmed.

A smart group will run radiant magelight to help prevent ganks, also attacks will do 37% less damage then they currently do so ganking will be more difficult. I think prox dets will be their real weakness.

Lionxoft · July 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

It depends on how the currency system works, if it's based on death bliws Zerging will actually not be a good way to get it

Zerging would be a great way not to lose it though while gaining tons of AP.

RedTalon · July 2015

I'm hoping zerging happens in the city, can see some means things to do to trap the zergs inside till they all get themselves killed

Minnesinger · July 2015

I can predict both pvp and pve players will flock in to Imperial City. Some goals they share and some they don´t. For example, the new tokens will be the new hot item. I believe pvpers are taking the full advantage of the situation by finding out the strategies to get pvp going on inside the area. I am eagerly awaiting how this will work out. In many games pvp maps were hardly ever changing but ESO is making it. Good job! Let the battle begin already!

timidobserver · July 2015

Lionxoft wrote: »

With the introduction of the new stone/token currency (Which I like) there's also the chance to have them taken from you by other players. Wouldn't this promote larger groups and zerging? I might have misunderstood the marketing lingo and it's not the first time I've done that with the whole "Supports hundreds of players on the screen" thing which obviously wasn't true.

Along the way, collect Tel Var Stones, a new currency you can use to purchase powerful new alliance gear and other valuable items. But be warned! Players from other alliances also patrol the depths, and if they defeat you, your Tel Var Stones will be theirs to plunder!

I guess we will have to see how this plays out on PTS but I think that zerging will be the widely adopted gameplay style in order to keep your stones.

I asked the question in the Imperial City thread, but it wasn't answered. But, this depends on whether you get the person's stone for a killing blow or whether the entire group gets a stone if the group gets credit for killing someone with a stone. If it is by killing blow, it will not promote zerging because you'll get more killing blows alone or in small groups.

Additionally, if it is by killing blow, there will be a lack of healers in Cyrodiil lol.

Minnesinger · July 2015

GreySix wrote: »

While IC apparently has (and should have) a large PvP element to it, many PvE players are also looking forward to the expansion. They don't invest in PvP, nor do they have any intention of doing so.

IMO, a happy balance could be achieved by allowing PvP to be toggled on or off in the IC, with a cool-down of course to prevent abusing the process. PvE players having no intent to PvP would have to be gank-proof.

SWTOR uses something similar, and I imagine if the Justice System in PvE is ever fully fleshed out, they'd have to crack that nut anyway.

I must reject this idea. Keep Cyrodil apart from the rest of pve land. That would kill half of the fun if you can´t hunt enemies in the pvp area.

Bromburak · July 2015

As long there is a reason for zerging, its fine.

Thats why Relic raids or Darkness Falls in DAOC were awesome because people didn't participate for leeching APs (RP in DAOC), they were fighting for objectives that are important for their faction.
We will see if the team spirit thoughts behind such concepts will work out in IC.

If they have done this right with IC, its game changing in a positive way because finally you have a reason to fight and being committed to your faction.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler
Pressure is on.

Germtrocity · July 2015

GreySix wrote: »

PvE players having no intent to PvP would have to be gank-proof.

Seriously no one before me noticed this? These are the PvP threads, I for sure thought someone would have jumped at this guy by now.

I mean, it's not like this is the first PvP update we are being tossed in over a year that we crave so that we can PvP and slaughter to our hearts content and immediately it gets suggested that PvE players be granted immunity from us PvPers who this update is for or anything.

Etaniel · July 2015

Everyone is speculating that we will get stones for killing players.... Where did you read that?? I only saw that you can steal stones off of your enemies once you kill them, thus not generating stones, just taking those they have already earned. don't you think the stones will be earned through questing and completing PvE objectives?

If that's how it is, you'll have to loot that guy's corpse, and get his stones, so it doesn't promote zerging as only one person wil l be able to loot it?

And if it's not lootable, but shared amongst the killers, zerging won't be very beneficial to stone farming

Lionxoft · July 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

If that's how it is, you'll have to loot that guy's corpse, and get his stones, so it doesn't promote zerging as only one person wil l be able to loot it?

Lionxoft · July 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

Everyone is speculating that we will get stones for killing players.... Where did you read that?? I only saw that you can steal stones off of your enemies once you kill them, thus not generating stones, just taking those they have already earned. don't you think the stones will be earned through questing and completing PvE objectives?

If that's how it is, you'll have to loot that guy's corpse, and get his stones, so it doesn't promote zerging as only one person wil l be able to loot it?

And if it's not lootable, but shared amongst the killers, zerging won't be very beneficial to stone farming

It's a safety in numbers thing. Don't want someone to steal your stones (

) then don't travel alone. Travel with 20 other people all spamming steel tornado, BoL, purge, etc.

Rosveen · July 2015

I understand you consider it a PvP update. I'm okay with it, I'm glad you're finally getting something after a year. But here's the thing: the IC isn't just PvP, it includes PvE, it's the first DLC in a year so we're all starved, and more importantly, it's the only new v14-16 content. Unless we want to grind some more (and aren't we all tired of that?), we need to go to the IC. If we want to farm v16 crafting mats, we need to go to the IC. If we want to buy v16 gear, we need to go to the IC (or can Tel Var gear be resold for gold? It probably can, so that's one problem out of the way). We need to group to survive, so again no content for solo players. And on top of that, we need to pay 2500 crowns to enter.

I believe most PvE-ers would be completely fine with the Imperial City if it was a regular content update we could ignore, but it isn't. With lootable Tel Var stones, it will be a gankfest - the very thing that keeps us out of PvP and why we so vehemently oppose open world PvP whenever someone suggests it (not the only thing, of course. But one of the most important.) When we come with our Recruits and Tyros, we'll be walking AP snacks.

It's not an easy situation.

Etaniel · July 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

I understand you consider it a PvP update. I'm okay with it, I'm glad you're finally getting something after a year. But here's the thing: the IC isn't just PvP, it includes PvE and more importantly, it's the only v14-16 content. Unless we want to grind some more (and aren't we all tired of that?), we need to go to the IC. If we want to farm v16 crafting mats, we need to go to the IC. If we want to buy v16 gear, we need to go to the IC. We need to group to survive, so again no content for solo players. And on top of that, we need to pay 2500 crowns to enter.

I believe most PvE-ers would be completely fine with the Imperial City if it was a regular content update we could ignore, but it isn't. With lootable Tel Var stones, it will be a gankfest - the very thing that keeps us out of PvP and why we so vehemently oppose open world PvP whenever someone suggests it (not the only thing, of course. But one of the most important.) When we come with our Recruits and Tyros, we'll be walking AP snacks.

It's not an easy situation.

Just out of curiosity, why are you interested in vr16 and the group dungeons etc if you only want solo content?

Farorin · July 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

...With lootable Tel Var stones, it will be a gankfest - the very thing that keeps us out of PvP and why we so vehemently oppose open world PvP...

I don't know who this "we" is that you are referring to, but it most certainly isn't me, ganking is what keeps me going back to PVP. Ganking others, and fighting off would be gankers is the most fun part of PVP for me.

Certainly more fun than zergballing all over the place.

Rosveen · July 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

I understand you consider it a PvP update. I'm okay with it, I'm glad you're finally getting something after a year. But here's the thing: the IC isn't just PvP, it includes PvE and more importantly, it's the only v14-16 content. Unless we want to grind some more (and aren't we all tired of that?), we need to go to the IC. If we want to farm v16 crafting mats, we need to go to the IC. If we want to buy v16 gear, we need to go to the IC. We need to group to survive, so again no content for solo players. And on top of that, we need to pay 2500 crowns to enter.

I believe most PvE-ers would be completely fine with the Imperial City if it was a regular content update we could ignore, but it isn't. With lootable Tel Var stones, it will be a gankfest - the very thing that keeps us out of PvP and why we so vehemently oppose open world PvP whenever someone suggests it (not the only thing, of course. But one of the most important.) When we come with our Recruits and Tyros, we'll be walking AP snacks.

It's not an easy situation.

Just out of curiosity, why are you interested in vr16 and the group dungeons etc if you only want solo content?

I'm not opposed to grouping, I like dungeons and do pledges whenever I have time. I was talking in general terms. There's a difference between optional grouping when I feel like it and forced grouping to survive (IC) or do quests at all (Craglorn in the past). I'm in favor of a healthy mix of both. I don't always want to go through the hassle of forming a competent group when I log in for an hour or two.

However, it may very well be possible to roam parts of the IC solo. I can and do enjoy Cyrodiil solo, after all. We'll see. It will certainly be possible in campaigns with one dominant alliance. I'm just considering possible problems.

Minnesinger · July 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

I understand you consider it a PvP update. I'm okay with it, I'm glad you're finally getting something after a year. But here's the thing: the IC isn't just PvP, it includes PvE, it's the first DLC in a year so we're all starved, and more importantly, it's the only new v14-16 content. Unless we want to grind some more (and aren't we all tired of that?), we need to go to the IC. If we want to farm v16 crafting mats, we need to go to the IC. If we want to buy v16 gear, we need to go to the IC (or can Tel Var gear be resold for gold? It probably can, so that's one problem out of the way). We need to group to survive, so again no content for solo players. And on top of that, we need to pay 2500 crowns to enter.

I believe most PvE-ers would be completely fine with the Imperial City if it was a regular content update we could ignore, but it isn't. With lootable Tel Var stones, it will be a gankfest - the very thing that keeps us out of PvP and why we so vehemently oppose open world PvP whenever someone suggests it (not the only thing, of course. But one of the most important.) When we come with our Recruits and Tyros, we'll be walking AP snacks.

It's not an easy situation.

It isn´t decided whether you must meet requirements to enter IC. If it includes taking all the inner keeps or even home keeps it is safe to assume pvp guilds/ players will be needed. Also to keep IC open you need them. Yes there is some pve content but as far Cyrodiil is concerned we need pvp oriented players. I don´t want to see pve guilds wasting our chance to get something done because they don´t like pvp. Are they just waiting till they can pve in peace? This is a big chance for pvp. I don´t want this to be new Crag. There is another DLC on the way for pvers.

Xsorus · July 2015

Lionxoft wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

It depends on how the currency system works, if it's based on death bliws Zerging will actually not be a good way to get it

Zerging would be a great way not to lose it though while gaining tons of AP.

Zerging will make you a target more often then not, you'll make good al but if it's death blow related the only one getting them will be templars

Rosveen · July 2015

Minnesinger wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

I understand you consider it a PvP update. I'm okay with it, I'm glad you're finally getting something after a year. But here's the thing: the IC isn't just PvP, it includes PvE, it's the first DLC in a year so we're all starved, and more importantly, it's the only new v14-16 content. Unless we want to grind some more (and aren't we all tired of that?), we need to go to the IC. If we want to farm v16 crafting mats, we need to go to the IC. If we want to buy v16 gear, we need to go to the IC (or can Tel Var gear be resold for gold? It probably can, so that's one problem out of the way). We need to group to survive, so again no content for solo players. And on top of that, we need to pay 2500 crowns to enter.

I believe most PvE-ers would be completely fine with the Imperial City if it was a regular content update we could ignore, but it isn't. With lootable Tel Var stones, it will be a gankfest - the very thing that keeps us out of PvP and why we so vehemently oppose open world PvP whenever someone suggests it (not the only thing, of course. But one of the most important.) When we come with our Recruits and Tyros, we'll be walking AP snacks.

It's not an easy situation.

It isn´t decided whether you must meet requirements to enter IC. If it includes taking all the inner keeps or even home keeps it is safe to assume pvp guilds/ players will be needed. Also to keep IC open you need them. Yes there is some pve content but as far Cyrodiil is concerned we need pvp oriented players. I don´t want to see pve guilds wasting our chance to get something done because they don´t like pvp. Are they just waiting till they can pve in peace? This is a big chance for pvp. I don´t want this to be new Crag. There is another DLC on the way for pvers.

We'll be lucky if we get Orsinium this year - and like I said, people are content starved. Expect to see PvE players. Luckily, many of them got so bored in recent months they started PvPing, so they are competent. Still, there's going to be plenty of curious newbies too. It's a double-edged sword: they'll count against pop limits, but they might like what they see and convert, bolstering your numbers. And anyway, every newbie-preying ganker inside IC is a ganker who won't cut you off when you ride to take overworld keeps.

Etaniel · July 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

I understand you consider it a PvP update. I'm okay with it, I'm glad you're finally getting something after a year. But here's the thing: the IC isn't just PvP, it includes PvE and more importantly, it's the only v14-16 content. Unless we want to grind some more (and aren't we all tired of that?), we need to go to the IC. If we want to farm v16 crafting mats, we need to go to the IC. If we want to buy v16 gear, we need to go to the IC. We need to group to survive, so again no content for solo players. And on top of that, we need to pay 2500 crowns to enter.

I believe most PvE-ers would be completely fine with the Imperial City if it was a regular content update we could ignore, but it isn't. With lootable Tel Var stones, it will be a gankfest - the very thing that keeps us out of PvP and why we so vehemently oppose open world PvP whenever someone suggests it (not the only thing, of course. But one of the most important.) When we come with our Recruits and Tyros, we'll be walking AP snacks.

It's not an easy situation.

Just out of curiosity, why are you interested in vr16 and the group dungeons etc if you only want solo content?

I'm not opposed to grouping, I like dungeons and do pledges whenever I have time. I was talking in general terms. There's a difference between optional grouping when I feel like it and forced grouping to survive (IC) or do quests at all (Craglorn in the past). I'm in favor of a healthy mix of both. I don't always want to go through the hassle of forming a competent group when I log in for an hour or two.

However, it may very well be possible to roam parts of the IC solo. I can and do enjoy Cyrodiil solo, after all. We'll see. It will certainly be possible in campaigns with one dominant alliance. I'm just considering possible problems.

I don't believe IC will be forced grouping, as you just said, we'll be able to roam the parts of IC solo or in group, just like regular Cyrodil. There will be solo quests as well.
If you fear for your safety because you are an unexperience PvPer (experienced pvpers will fear as well don't worry xD) I'm sure there will be hordes of other PvErs who will gladly group up to be safer in numbers. Heck you might even grow to enjoy PvP in a group and make new friends

Sublime · July 2015

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

I think that zerging will be the widely adopted gameplay style in order to keep your stones.

When I read the article I also came to the same conclusion. There is one variable though that could stop this and that is prox det. I'm presuming the sewers will be made up of narrow hallways which would be suicide for a large group if an enemy used prox det on them (scaling off number of targets hit).

Pretty much this, if the scaling is implemented correctly bombsquads and unattentive zergs are dead.

Raizin · July 2015

If the large grps (meaning they r in one raid) will get some sort of dmg output reduction, then no - it wont support zergballs that much.

RinaldoGandolphi · July 2015

I don;t think it matters if it still has the same lag we have currently, which all indications point to it will.