Laggerfall Covenant on Azura's NA
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Phoenix99✭✭✭there is no one particular causing the lag... the lag is caused by the poor PvP design and allowing endless spam of skills, so if a huge engagement happens, like some scroll keep, emperor keep, etc. you will suffer the lag... there is no way around it...
Unless ZoS decided to cut and hard cap regens at 600 and add Cooldowns to skills, the PvP will always lag... ALWAYS... whenever you will see groups like 40 vs 40 (which is less than two full 24men raids, and some guilds can easily field that)3 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭there is no one particular causing the lag... the lag is caused by the poor PvP design and allowing endless spam of skills, so if a huge engagement happens, like some scroll keep, emperor keep, etc. you will suffer the lag... there is no way around it...
Unless ZoS decided to cut and hard cap regens at 600 and add Cooldowns to skills, the PvP will always lag... ALWAYS... whenever you will see groups like 40 vs 40 (which is less than two full 24men raids, and some guilds can easily field that)
It seems Phoenix99 won another thread here.
Every guild regardless of alliance pretty much operates the same way in battle. The skills are the same so at the end of the day tactics are very similar. Let me know about one guild that doesn't have a few healers spamming their hearts out in a pop locked campaign during a large siege or defense.
I was at the Alma Ruma Gate the other day eating my French style omelet made out of the whites of quail eggs. The AD arrived, I wiped the sides of my mouth and rose from my seat, the AD horde roared, I FLEXED. All that was left were the AD weapons strewn about and the foot prints made in haste leading away from the gate.3 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »there is no one particular causing the lag... the lag is caused by the poor PvP design and allowing endless spam of skills, so if a huge engagement happens, like some scroll keep, emperor keep, etc. you will suffer the lag... there is no way around it...
Unless ZoS decided to cut and hard cap regens at 600 and add Cooldowns to skills, the PvP will always lag... ALWAYS... whenever you will see groups like 40 vs 40 (which is less than two full 24men raids, and some guilds can easily field that)
It seems Phoenix99 won another thread here.
Every guild regardless of alliance pretty much operates the same way in battle. The skills are the same so at the end of the day tactics are very similar. Let me know about one guild that doesn't have a few healers spamming their hearts out in a pop locked campaign during a large siege or defense.
I was at the Alma Ruma Gate the other day eating my French style omelet made out of the whites of quail eggs. The AD arrived, I wiped the sides of my mouth and rose from my seat, the AD horde roared, I FLEXED. All that was left were the AD weapons strewn about and the foot prints made in haste leading away from the gate.
Moral of the story: french style omelets are delicious.2 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Teargrants wrote: »
Damn right. Most well known ERP guild in ESO.I blame the rerolls.
All those rerolls from EP coming to DC.
Get out of our country.
We grew here, you flew here.
This is just silly. One faction, one guild does not "create" the lag. We did not carry the lag with us from EP in our backpacks, get real. The true culprit of this insane lag is ZOS. Their servers are both unstable and unacceptable and I'd like to believe NO ONE has ANY fun playing in these conditions. But the sooner we start to assign blame in the proper place, the sooner it can be acknowledged and fixed.
Of course, there are methods with which people can intentionally take advantage of these awful servers, such as permaspamming meteors. This is incredibly poor form imo. Our guild does not do this and never will. We simply want good fights and challenging opponents.
You didn't need to dignify that cheap shot with a response. Everyone I know knows VE is a respectable, quality guild.
That's a laugh.
We will ERP 24v24 deci any day of the week.
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BigTone✭✭✭✭Minnesinger wrote: »Azura was becoming an AD buff server where almost all the big AD guilds homed. Some of these guilds can boast huge numbers running 2 raid simultanously. I can´t really accept how badly AD is blaming DC for lag. Azura become highly populated by all 3 factions. The lag is a sum of various factors. There is yet to show a single proof that 1 faction alone can create lag. I am also questioning if some AD are a bit salty because DC hijacked the campaign win. Especially those AD who left Chill in the pretext of harassing DC of any campaign win. If you happen to remember the threads made by AD players.
Hijacked is right. Look, I'm over it, but it's I think it's pretty obvious what happened last night. For a few hours last night, we were completely unable to use abilities, unable to even siege a keep. The other campaigns had no such problems.
When all three factions are pop locked and there is a big clash, this will happen. I said it in another thread somewhere that if a home keep or scroll is attacked, you can expect everyone from both sides to be there. Combine this with a three way pop locked campaign and you have lag.
The bolded part of your quote brings me so much joy. To insinuate that DC caused lag on purpose to take the scroll is pathetic. On pop locked campaigns lag is everywhere, and none of the players are to blame, unless they are also ZoS employees.Big'Tone-V16 DC Sorc AR31
Sneaky'Tone-V16 DC NB AR22
Holy'Tone-V12 DC Temp
Chunky'Tone-33 DC DK (BWB beast)
Worst NB NA
Roll dodging magicka sorc
"Do you know why they call him Big'Tone?"0 -
RadioheadSh0t✭✭✭✭✭ksimpscnub18_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »
Damn right. Most well known ERP guild in ESO.I blame the rerolls.
All those rerolls from EP coming to DC.
Get out of our country.
We grew here, you flew here.
This is just silly. One faction, one guild does not "create" the lag. We did not carry the lag with us from EP in our backpacks, get real. The true culprit of this insane lag is ZOS. Their servers are both unstable and unacceptable and I'd like to believe NO ONE has ANY fun playing in these conditions. But the sooner we start to assign blame in the proper place, the sooner it can be acknowledged and fixed.
Of course, there are methods with which people can intentionally take advantage of these awful servers, such as permaspamming meteors. This is incredibly poor form imo. Our guild does not do this and never will. We simply want good fights and challenging opponents.
You didn't need to dignify that cheap shot with a response. Everyone I know knows VE is a respectable, quality guild.
This is blasphemy Lord Teargrants. You're ERP is no match for the Tikiest Jim. I challenge you to a duEL. *slap with white glove*
I'm not a big ERPer, but I believe the appropriate ERPer response would be 'oh yeah, smack me harder.'Aldonius Direnni - Vet Altmer Sorc (AD)
Tyrus Telvanni - Vet Dunmer DK (AD)
Al Donius Bundy - Vet Imperial NB (AD)
Aldonius Brutus - Vet Orc DK (DC)1 -
Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭themizario wrote: »I play with dial up. I was born in the lag. You only adapt to it. <<bane voice
were you also born in the 30s?2013
rip decibel0 -
EIGHTS✭✭✭✭kevlarto_ESO wrote: »I'm very lag, but AD don't.
They use skills like usual.
Who can tell me why?
Not true, I am AD we lag just like everyone else, if your encounter certain players and no one is around and you lag there might be an issue or some kind of exploit, I encounter a certain DC player he can be the only player around and all the sudden can't target, can't switch weapons, and a slide show begins, happens every time this player is around when he leaves the lag leaves, it makes me wonder some times.
But AD lags in battles like all other factions and if someone is telling you other wise they are lying to you.
I can only say that we're all victims.
If you get lag and can't use any skills too.
I told you AD players (maybe only some group) didn't lag, because I saw my own eyes too many times.
But as I said before, every time the lag begin in a campaign.
It must happened when DC get the top.
If DC is at the bottom, there doesn't lag no matter how many people fight in one place.
Someone want to WIN.
They don't care anything but WIN.
Maybe this is the root of problem and ZOS do nothing.
Edited by EIGHTS on July 13, 2015 7:24AMI'm not native speaker in English. I hope that I don't make you misunderstand.0 -
Anazasi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I blame the rerolls.
All those rerolls from EP coming to DC.
Get out of our country.
We grew here, you flew here.
This is just silly. One faction, one guild does not "create" the lag. We did not carry the lag with us from EP in our backpacks, get real. The true culprit of this insane lag is ZOS. Their servers are both unstable and unacceptable and I'd like to believe NO ONE has ANY fun playing in these conditions. But the sooner we start to assign blame in the proper place, the sooner it can be acknowledged and fixed.
Of course, there are methods with which people can intentionally take advantage of these awful servers, such as permaspamming meteors. This is incredibly poor form imo. Our guild does not do this and never will. We simply want good fights and challenging opponents.
Oh please EP perfected the lag fight and ZOS has all but come out and told everyone what it is and how its created. LOS checks create the LAG. Watch certain groups. They will purposely run to corners or behind objects and cast repeatedly AOE abilities to lag the server then they run to another object and do the same thing. Before 1.6 we all though this was just a way to build ultimate but that got fixed. Now its just a way to lag out a server. If you don't believe it watch the groups as the maneuver around the map or inside a keep. Yeah they are a few players would spam packets and a few who have beefed up their client side stats through unscrupulous means but the lag that's caused by LOS checks that certain groups exploit it repeatedly. Stop acting like its all ZOS's fault when in fact its not. IF the lag groups want to fix the issue then stop hiding behind world objects and spamming abilities. It's a shame that's the only way they can win fights and become the self proclaimed great players they all think they are.0 -
Earendal✭✭✭✭LoS checks are performed regardless of whether or not they're needed. Nice try though.Earendal - AD Templar
Earendal Ebonheart - EP Templar
Earendal Spellstorm - EP Sorcerer
Haxus and Havoc0 -
Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I blame the rerolls.
All those rerolls from EP coming to DC.
Get out of our country.
We grew here, you flew here.
This is just silly. One faction, one guild does not "create" the lag. We did not carry the lag with us from EP in our backpacks, get real. The true culprit of this insane lag is ZOS. Their servers are both unstable and unacceptable and I'd like to believe NO ONE has ANY fun playing in these conditions. But the sooner we start to assign blame in the proper place, the sooner it can be acknowledged and fixed.
Of course, there are methods with which people can intentionally take advantage of these awful servers, such as permaspamming meteors. This is incredibly poor form imo. Our guild does not do this and never will. We simply want good fights and challenging opponents.
Oh please EP perfected the lag fight and ZOS has all but come out and told everyone what it is and how its created. LOS checks create the LAG. Watch certain groups. They will purposely run to corners or behind objects and cast repeatedly AOE abilities to lag the server then they run to another object and do the same thing. Before 1.6 we all though this was just a way to build ultimate but that got fixed. Now its just a way to lag out a server. If you don't believe it watch the groups as the maneuver around the map or inside a keep. Yeah they are a few players would spam packets and a few who have beefed up their client side stats through unscrupulous means but the lag that's caused by LOS checks that certain groups exploit it repeatedly. Stop acting like its all ZOS's fault when in fact its not. IF the lag groups want to fix the issue then stop hiding behind world objects and spamming abilities. It's a shame that's the only way they can win fights and become the self proclaimed great players they all think they are.
sometimes ppl use things called "tactics", which can be, but are not limited to:
-hopping onto a ledge in a corner to avoid siege and most of the AoE dmg on a flag, which allows you to res, or use a cast time ability more effectively
-hiding behind a wall because some heals go through it, hopefully the reason for that is obvious
spamming heals when literally no one is around is one thing, but even if someone does that, they could just be relieving pressure for a minute and then heading back into the fight. Lag these days is not really created by abilities, but too many players in a small spaceEdited by Draxys on July 13, 2015 3:12PM2013
rip decibel1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How is it even possible that after a year and a half, some people haven't realized lag isn't "caused" by a specific guild, faction, or a server?Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.2 -
Lesspa✭✭✭ZOS obviously hasnt removed enough deer and bugs in the DC area. Cmon ZOS, get your **** together!1
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Pchela✭✭✭✭✭ZOS obviously hasnt removed enough deer and bugs in the DC area. Cmon ZOS, get your **** together!
ZOS kept those woodland creatures in the DC areas due to lack of DC pop. Those creatures were actually spies, who through an intricate and delicate language unknown to most citizen of Tamriel, were able to communicate with the sparse DC population and inform them of when EP and AD were treading into their territories.
I murdered every. Single. One of them.2 -
CN_Daniel✭✭✭✭Look, you can't roll up on our group, and drop 20 freaking meteors, and expect us not to unleash the rain...lol
You AD all say it's me and my team, but you were fighting us here the previous 3 cycles, did we cause it then? No, we didn't. We're not trying to create the lag.0 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »How is it even possible that after a year and a half, some people haven't realized lag isn't "caused" by a specific guild, faction, or a server?
Because their hatred is greater than their intellect.0 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I blame the rerolls.
All those rerolls from EP coming to DC.
Get out of our country.
We grew here, you flew here.
This is just silly. One faction, one guild does not "create" the lag. We did not carry the lag with us from EP in our backpacks, get real. The true culprit of this insane lag is ZOS. Their servers are both unstable and unacceptable and I'd like to believe NO ONE has ANY fun playing in these conditions. But the sooner we start to assign blame in the proper place, the sooner it can be acknowledged and fixed.
Of course, there are methods with which people can intentionally take advantage of these awful servers, such as permaspamming meteors. This is incredibly poor form imo. Our guild does not do this and never will. We simply want good fights and challenging opponents.
Oh please EP perfected the lag fight and ZOS has all but come out and told everyone what it is and how its created. LOS checks create the LAG. Watch certain groups. They will purposely run to corners or behind objects and cast repeatedly AOE abilities to lag the server then they run to another object and do the same thing. Before 1.6 we all though this was just a way to build ultimate but that got fixed. Now its just a way to lag out a server. If you don't believe it watch the groups as the maneuver around the map or inside a keep. Yeah they are a few players would spam packets and a few who have beefed up their client side stats through unscrupulous means but the lag that's caused by LOS checks that certain groups exploit it repeatedly. Stop acting like its all ZOS's fault when in fact its not. IF the lag groups want to fix the issue then stop hiding behind world objects and spamming abilities. It's a shame that's the only way they can win fights and become the self proclaimed great players they all think they are.
I'm sorry, but you sound insane. & I presume you are speaking about havoc. I have many friends in havoc and they are in fact, great players. Whether you choose to be ignorant to that fact is entirely up to you. Our guild has now fought alongside them and against them many times. I have never seen them use intentional tactics to lag others out. They are a strong group. There is no need to try to diminish that with lies just because you got your ass handed to you.3 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭I blame the rerolls.
All those rerolls from EP coming to DC.
Get out of our country.
We grew here, you flew here.
This is just silly. One faction, one guild does not "create" the lag. We did not carry the lag with us from EP in our backpacks, get real. The true culprit of this insane lag is ZOS. Their servers are both unstable and unacceptable and I'd like to believe NO ONE has ANY fun playing in these conditions. But the sooner we start to assign blame in the proper place, the sooner it can be acknowledged and fixed.
Of course, there are methods with which people can intentionally take advantage of these awful servers, such as permaspamming meteors. This is incredibly poor form imo. Our guild does not do this and never will. We simply want good fights and challenging opponents.
Oh please EP perfected the lag fight and ZOS has all but come out and told everyone what it is and how its created. LOS checks create the LAG. Watch certain groups. They will purposely run to corners or behind objects and cast repeatedly AOE abilities to lag the server then they run to another object and do the same thing. Before 1.6 we all though this was just a way to build ultimate but that got fixed. Now its just a way to lag out a server. If you don't believe it watch the groups as the maneuver around the map or inside a keep. Yeah they are a few players would spam packets and a few who have beefed up their client side stats through unscrupulous means but the lag that's caused by LOS checks that certain groups exploit it repeatedly. Stop acting like its all ZOS's fault when in fact its not. IF the lag groups want to fix the issue then stop hiding behind world objects and spamming abilities. It's a shame that's the only way they can win fights and become the self proclaimed great players they all think they are.
I'm sorry, but you sound insane. & I presume you are speaking about havoc. I have many friends in havoc and they are in fact, great players. Whether you choose to be ignorant to that fact is entirely up to you. Our guild has now fought alongside them and against them many times. I have never seen them use intentional tactics to lag others out. They are a strong group. There is no need to try to diminish that with lies just because you got your ass handed to you.
Except most of the time I face them when certain players are on we get over 500 latency and abilities stops working at key moments.
Might just be random. But when we fight larger numbers of other groups and it doesnt happen, it is natural that you calculate one plus one and come to that conclusion.
Lately it seems to happen with the same dc groups, who arent large neither most of the time.
Oh and point fingers as much as you want at ad. We are the ones making the most efforts to reduce lag and make shady situation like that public. My own guild even pulled out of winning fights because lag was going at our favor. And I could say the same concerning other major ad guilds.
We have our bad apples too. Except we try to weed em out of the alliance.0 -
Huckdabuck✭✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »I blame the rerolls.
All those rerolls from EP coming to DC.
Get out of our country.
We grew here, you flew here.
This is just silly. One faction, one guild does not "create" the lag. We did not carry the lag with us from EP in our backpacks, get real. The true culprit of this insane lag is ZOS. Their servers are both unstable and unacceptable and I'd like to believe NO ONE has ANY fun playing in these conditions. But the sooner we start to assign blame in the proper place, the sooner it can be acknowledged and fixed.
Of course, there are methods with which people can intentionally take advantage of these awful servers, such as permaspamming meteors. This is incredibly poor form imo. Our guild does not do this and never will. We simply want good fights and challenging opponents.
Oh please EP perfected the lag fight and ZOS has all but come out and told everyone what it is and how its created. LOS checks create the LAG. Watch certain groups. They will purposely run to corners or behind objects and cast repeatedly AOE abilities to lag the server then they run to another object and do the same thing. Before 1.6 we all though this was just a way to build ultimate but that got fixed. Now its just a way to lag out a server. If you don't believe it watch the groups as the maneuver around the map or inside a keep. Yeah they are a few players would spam packets and a few who have beefed up their client side stats through unscrupulous means but the lag that's caused by LOS checks that certain groups exploit it repeatedly. Stop acting like its all ZOS's fault when in fact its not. IF the lag groups want to fix the issue then stop hiding behind world objects and spamming abilities. It's a shame that's the only way they can win fights and become the self proclaimed great players they all think they are.
I'm sorry, but you sound insane. & I presume you are speaking about havoc. I have many friends in havoc and they are in fact, great players. Whether you choose to be ignorant to that fact is entirely up to you. Our guild has now fought alongside them and against them many times. I have never seen them use intentional tactics to lag others out. They are a strong group. There is no need to try to diminish that with lies just because you got your ass handed to you.
Except most of the time I face them when certain players are on we get over 500 latency and abilities stops working at key moments.
Might just be random. But when we fight larger numbers of other groups and it doesnt happen, it is natural that you calculate one plus one and come to that conclusion.
Lately it seems to happen with the same dc groups, who arent large neither most of the time.
Oh and point fingers as much as you want at ad. We are the ones making the most efforts to reduce lag and make shady situation like that public. My own guild even pulled out of winning fights because lag was going at our favor. And I could say the same concerning other major ad guilds.
We have our bad apples too. Except we try to weed em out of the alliance.
This is strictly from my perspective but here lately we've (VE) had some serious issue with skill/server lag while flipping keeps where there were only 10 people defending while having no problems at all in other fights where we are outnumbered or facing other similar sized guilds. Bad game is bad and random is random. Causation and correlation are pretty much nonexistent here. 1+1 does sometimes equal 459 in this game and not 2....it's how ZOS maths.Texashighelf - VR16 Sorcerer EP NA - FILTHY BARBARIAN
Texasimperial - VR16 Dragonknight EP NA - How do you like your DK?
Texas'Imperial - VR16 Dragonknight DC NA - How do you like your DK?
Texas-Imperial - VR16 Templar DC NA - Queue Clogging Lagsploitter
Texas Highelf - VR16 Sorcerer DC NA - Queue Clogging Lagsploitter
Texas Imperial - VR16 Nightblade DC NA - Queue Clogging LagsploitterJessica Folsom wrote:It's a very grey area.0 -
Zavus✭✭✭✭I blame the rerolls.
All those rerolls from EP coming to DC.
Get out of our country.
We grew here, you flew here.
This is just silly. One faction, one guild does not "create" the lag. We did not carry the lag with us from EP in our backpacks, get real. The true culprit of this insane lag is ZOS. Their servers are both unstable and unacceptable and I'd like to believe NO ONE has ANY fun playing in these conditions. But the sooner we start to assign blame in the proper place, the sooner it can be acknowledged and fixed.
Of course, there are methods with which people can intentionally take advantage of these awful servers, such as permaspamming meteors. This is incredibly poor form imo. Our guild does not do this and never will. We simply want good fights and challenging opponents.
*cough* Kirsi *cough*
methuEdited by Zavus on July 13, 2015 6:13PMZavus - Worst NB NA / First NB RANK 50"Most carried General NA" - Cent Satori
Haxus0 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I blame the rerolls.
All those rerolls from EP coming to DC.
Get out of our country.
We grew here, you flew here.
This is just silly. One faction, one guild does not "create" the lag. We did not carry the lag with us from EP in our backpacks, get real. The true culprit of this insane lag is ZOS. Their servers are both unstable and unacceptable and I'd like to believe NO ONE has ANY fun playing in these conditions. But the sooner we start to assign blame in the proper place, the sooner it can be acknowledged and fixed.
Of course, there are methods with which people can intentionally take advantage of these awful servers, such as permaspamming meteors. This is incredibly poor form imo. Our guild does not do this and never will. We simply want good fights and challenging opponents.
*cough* Kirsi *cough*
methu
Confirmed. @Teargrants is a confirmed hacker. Just watch his vids on YouTube and it's all too clear.
1 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Whether people remembered it or not back in 1.5 there was plenty of evidence that some guilds/groups (on ALL sides) lagged servers on purpose. With that said I have not seen anything close to this since 1.6 dropped.
I believe it's on ZOS side of things, especially with the checks that they do for bots (I believe it's bots). It might be a systems check that is does but when they installed it way back when that's when this all started.0 -
mchermie✭✭✭✭The bolded part of your quote brings me so much joy. To insinuate that DC caused lag on purpose to take the scroll is pathetic. On pop locked campaigns lag is everywhere, and none of the players are to blame, unless they are also ZoS employees.
Maybe, just maybe, someone should stop using meteors with the intention to keep the lag going..Retired
NA DC
K-Hole
McHermie NB - AR 42
McHermes DK - AR 18
Lord Typh Templar - AR 113 -
Karamis_Vimardon✭✭✭✭Yeah, no one group or faction causes the lag. I've /sitchair and/dance a few times with a highly talented and organised EP group back when they were the lynch mob target during 999+ storms, because their mere presence somehow did it. Maybe it was the fact there were well over 100 players in the keeps at the time...cause you know, large scale battles and all.PC NA
Karamis Vimardon, DC Templar (Magplar)
Netara, DC Nightblade (Stamblade)
Karamis, DC Sorc (Magicka)
Hãderus, EP Templar (Healbot)
Mr Twinkle-Toes, DC DK (Tank)
game
noun: game;
plural noun: games
1. a form of competitive activity or sport played according to rules.
2. an activity that one engages in for amusement.1 -
Caza99✭✭✭✭
umm...lol?I blame the rerolls.
All those rerolls from EP coming to DC.
Get out of our country.
We grew here, you flew here.
This is just silly. One faction, one guild does not "create" the lag. We did not carry the lag with us from EP in our backpacks, get real. The true culprit of this insane lag is ZOS. Their servers are both unstable and unacceptable and I'd like to believe NO ONE has ANY fun playing in these conditions. But the sooner we start to assign blame in the proper place, the sooner it can be acknowledged and fixed.
Of course, there are methods with which people can intentionally take advantage of these awful servers, such as permaspamming meteors. This is incredibly poor form imo. Our guild does not do this and never will. We simply want good fights and challenging opponents.
Oh please EP perfected the lag fight and ZOS has all but come out and told everyone what it is and how its created. LOS checks create the LAG. Watch certain groups. They will purposely run to corners or behind objects and cast repeatedly AOE abilities to lag the server then they run to another object and do the same thing. Before 1.6 we all though this was just a way to build ultimate but that got fixed. Now its just a way to lag out a server. If you don't believe it watch the groups as the maneuver around the map or inside a keep. Yeah they are a few players would spam packets and a few who have beefed up their client side stats through unscrupulous means but the lag that's caused by LOS checks that certain groups exploit it repeatedly. Stop acting like its all ZOS's fault when in fact its not. IF the lag groups want to fix the issue then stop hiding behind world objects and spamming abilities. It's a shame that's the only way they can win fights and become the self proclaimed great players they all think they are.
Edited by Caza99 on July 14, 2015 2:34AMPC NA - @MercerESO0
