Raiding needs to be fixed

Domardal · July 2015

Please fix those Loadingscreen/ disconnect issues!!
We always do one chill run to get in progress mood so that everybody's get's concentrated.
Always works - no Problems there.

But funnily enough - once we really are willing to go for it and push us we have those tiring server/Programming related issues that block us for roughly half an hour per Raideve...

As also mentioned before - maybe make the loot a Bit More appealing, just like the old Aether was back in the day.
I sure can live with it if it's bop but I would really appreciate some stuff that you might actually wear if you are in endgame PvE.

Currently we are joking that we are doing weeklys apart from DSA just because we want a full Set of yokeda or so for the day Housing might be implementied and we can buy dolls to Show it off...

The endgame isn't really attractive anymore which is saddening since the Game actually has such a potential...

To answer @Alcast I to 100% aggree regarding PvP-Buffs and Death Penalties.
But I don't think CP should be ignored/ Cut off at a certain number.
A Lot of ppl spent days in cwc to get a Lot of them and it would be unfair to harm them for being dedicated (i'm not one of them tough)
Also: why would they implement such a system if they wouldn't allow ppl to use it in endgame, tough I totally aggree that CP take a way to big Part in your dps...
That's why I really am Looking forward to the catch-up system but it should reach higher than 400cp, more like 600 CP since there are already People with like 800+ arround...

To sum it up: pls fix your servers, improve loot, think about global Game and scoring mechanics and give us new content!!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Alcast · July 2015

Now that the Woman that designed the CP system got fired from ZOS I hope they will redo the CP system :DDDDDDD
I am happy that she is gone srsly, that CP system is utterly crap.

Nifty2g · July 2015

@Alcast hahahaha, we can only hope but sadly i feel like this game is in some serious need of fixing that its almost hopeless to fix now lol

xMovingTarget · July 2015

They change soo much around these days, changing the Champsys on top of it will likely result in an unplayable game

I mean I dont wanna flame and everything. But you know. That is my thought on it.

Woeler · July 2015

Ok, so I don't want to sound rude, but I've read your post and I have no idea how long you spent studying the scoring system, but you are quite incorrect. Me and a guildmate have been trying to find out how it works since it got released, and we've pretty much got how it works. Our calculations are almost always accurate give or take 70 points.

I can tell you that yes, time has a big impact on the score, but it is by far not everything. We are currently on nr1 on all three trials on EU as well as the world. In some of them we didn't have the fastest time, but we did get the highest score. Playing smart > playing fast.

The design of the scoring system is nifty(edit: Lol just realized OP is called Nifty XD), but not uncrackable, sorry Zeni

I'm not going to give out the way it works, but I urge people to keep searching. It's not as simple as you think (ok, maybe for dsa it is, but that has certain reasons. In trials it ain't that easy).

Alcast wrote: »

Now that the Woman that designed the CP system got fired from ZOS I hope they will redo the CP system :DDDDDDD
I am happy that she is gone srsly, that CP system is utterly crap.

And this comment is just plain sad, sorry. If that is even true, it's just sad to make fun of it.

Nifty2g · July 2015

@Woeler well you can't say that then not give out the formula?
Based on everything I've done the scoring is based on 1 second = 2 points. in vdsa anyway

Woeler · July 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

@Woeler well you can't say that then not give out the formula?
Based on everything I've done the scoring is based on 1 second = 2 points. in vdsa anyway

Yes, VDSA has an easier mecahnism because the dungeon is completely linear (as in you can not skip, or ignore anything), in trials you have much more choices. Do I kill these mobs? Yes, no? Do I kill them all at once, or do I split them up? Do we nuke the boss or kill adds first? How many points do certain mobs give? etc. etc.

You might find that some things are not what they seem to be.

Nifty2g · July 2015

@ZOS_RichLambert @Attorneyatlawl
I just want deaths to mean something honestly I mean they probably do, but it seems to be miniscule or at least tell us? It seems to be 1 second = 2 points in vdsa and 1 death is 5 points taken off or it's 0 points taken off/

I feel it promotes a HORRIBLE play style for new players and even hardcore gamers there is no risk/reward mechanic and it's just all about speed. And further more you can abuse this system so much in VDSA, purposely dying at the end of a round to get to the new round faster, it can literally save seconds only but with a system based on time, everything counts.

I also would love to see a no death achievement where it adds points to your scores?

Woeler · July 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

I also would love to see a no death achievement where it adds points to your scores?

Although there is no achievement, it is implemented in the score mechanic.

Nifty2g · July 2015

Woeler wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I also would love to see a no death achievement where it adds points to your scores?

Although there is no achievement, it is implemented in the score mechanic.

@Woeler You need to post sources etc to make claims honestly. I'm also talking about score mechanic not trials/dungeon achievements

Woeler · July 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I also would love to see a no death achievement where it adds points to your scores?

Although there is no achievement, it is implemented in the score mechanic.

@Woeler You need to post sources etc to make claims honestly. I'm also talking about score mechanic not trials/dungeon achievements

I won't. Took me weeks to figure out how it all worked, and so far my group seems to be the only who know how it works. you say you want points for no-death runs, I tell you this is already implemented in the mechanic. I won't tell you how, when and how much. I'm just telling you it's there, the rest should be pretty easy to figure out by doing a no death run in AA, that is if you have the correct formula for the trialtime.

I highly recommend you install the addon Raidificator for accurate tracking of score, time and souls. The more data you gather, the clearer it becomes. Also be sure to note down certain special, unusual or new tactics you use in these raids.

I know that no-death does impact the score you get in a raid. I'm not sharing any calculations or data, so if you don't believe me then there is no other proof than simply finding out by yourself.

Nifty2g · July 2015

Woeler wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I also would love to see a no death achievement where it adds points to your scores?

Although there is no achievement, it is implemented in the score mechanic.

@Woeler You need to post sources etc to make claims honestly. I'm also talking about score mechanic not trials/dungeon achievements

I won't. Took me weeks to figure out how it all worked, and so far my group seems to be the only who know how it works. you say you want points for no-death runs, I tell you this is already implemented in the mechanic. I won't tell you how, when and how much. I'm just telling you it's there, the rest should be pretty easy to figure out by doing a no death run in AA, that is if you have the correct formula for the trialtime.

I highly recommend you install the addon Raidificator for accurate tracking of score, time and souls. The more data you gather, the clearer it becomes. Also be sure to note down certain special, unusual or new tactics you use in these raids.

I know that no-death does impact the score you get in a raid. I'm not sharing any calculations or data, so if you don't believe me then there is no other proof than simply finding out by yourself.

So you're doing ZOS's formula
deaths still count just not as much as before.

i can't take any of this information lol, i just hate it. and i'm not going to believe anything until i get some proof

Woeler · July 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

i can't take any of this information lol, i just hate it. and i'm not going to believe anything until i get some proof

Then I'd suggest you try to find it out with your own raiding group/guild. Because here on the forums, nobody else seems to have figured it out yet.

asneakybanana · July 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I also would love to see a no death achievement where it adds points to your scores?

Although there is no achievement, it is implemented in the score mechanic.

@Woeler You need to post sources etc to make claims honestly. I'm also talking about score mechanic not trials/dungeon achievements

In trials deaths do factor into the score. Have had slightly faster runs that had a lower score by 500-1k because we had 10 or more extra deaths. As far as I can tell the trials score is based on base score so each mob killed gives a higher base score. Then you multiply that base score by X for completing hard mode. Then you multiply that by Y for time (can be < or > than 1). Then you take off a small amount of points per death. My guess right now is that deaths are 50-100 points or so. A few months back we did some testing w/ skipping and jumping in AA. Both runs were no death runs. We had a 9:50 time w/o skipping anything and got a 76135 score. Then we did the jump and got a 75406 score think the time was around 9:40 or 9:45. So as far as i can tell the jump is worth doing because that pack usually takes around 20s but in the end it will only grant 500-1k points. There is definitely slightly more depth to the scoring than most people think just not sure how much.

Fecius · July 2015

I was tracking this thread because those high-end PvE questions are really important for me.

I perfectly understand that the scoring system must be clear and understandable, more of that, it would be nice to add more weight in deaths penalty. But, guys, for me, reading this thread, it looks like for you it will be enough if they just make this improved ladder, scale old content to vr16 and 400 CP. That's why I decided to add something from myself.

First of all I want to mention that so far the dynamic of high end PvE development was fantastically cool. So far.

Let’s try to look at this from the beginning:

1. Vr dungeons - well, they were pretty easy but they are designed to teach newbies we were all that moment to play this game in PvE.
2. Craglorn with Aetherian Archive and Hell'Ra Citadel. AA and HRC were 1st raids and they were easy as well. The problem was just in finding those 12 people in right builds. And here is the same purpose as vr dungeons - to teach players to work as 12 and learn some more about this game.
3. AA HM and HRC HM - there are 1st challenges that looked great. There are no complex mechanics or something like that, but they were a next step of high end PvE in ESO. Crypt of Hearts – a more difficult vr.dungeon.
4. SO, SO HM and vDSA became another step in right direction of ESO PvE Evolution. This content is much harder, new mechanics and so on. City of Ash – vr.dungeon which is even harder than Crypt.

Now you can see the overall direction of PvE development and I hope it will remain the same. I have a really nice experience of raiding in one other MMORPG I won't call but everyone knows. And I can tell you that for ESO there is a lot of space for growth. I truly believe that one day we will have here in ESO bosses same level as Mimiron Firefighter, Algalon, Firelands HM Ragnaros or HM Alysrazor. We are pretty far from this difficulty level yet. (I mentioned best bosses in my opinion that I faced one day personally, I guess there can be even better examples).

Well, I have a good suggestion for trials that is not something new in MMORPG world. It is good that ESO tries to give a decent content for all types of players. And to help these attempts you can add a 3d lever of difficulty. In this case you will have 3 types: for casual players, for common players and for hardcore players.

But now let's talk about less pleasant things.

First of all, I wish there will be no more scaling or difficulty adjustment for old trials and DSA simply because in that case it would be third time you offer same product to customers. It looks like "Oh, I know you’ve liked this film and you saw it 2 times but now you can buy it again, aren't you exited?" Well, personally I would not be exited.

Next is itemization. Every time items from trials were a really weak point of ESO. There are some exceptions but overall it’s not as good as should be. Really good items are the key of trial popularity. People must have a reason to go in trial again and again, not only for ladder – there are pretty few people who really care about ladders and try to take 1st places in it, and you may say it’s achievement – well it’s cool, but only one successful run is enough for it. At the end of the day to improve current situation you can even add token system (I personally don’t like it) where every week you get one token to change on what you really need and it can work better than current random loot reward system. You may replace a current weekly quest reward with this token.

But the itemization is not only about getting some stuff. High end PvE loot from trials should be high demanded by PvE players. Like high end PvP loot is demanded by PvP players. If you take a look at what is currently used in PvE right now you will see, that only weapon and spell damage bonuses in item sets matters. It’s almost always reasonable to ignore 5th set bonuses to get more SPD or WPD bonus from 2 parts like Torug’s Pact gives in terms of spell damage. Why? It gives you more DPS. If you can make new Trial loot item set which would provide 500 more DPS than all others it definitely will be high demanded! And everyone would go those trials over and over again to gather those sets. It’s pretty same for tanks and healers but with a bit other priorities. And I want to add that all those fancy current item sets with strange last bonuses are fine for casual players only. I hope you are going to improve current metagame itemization in IC major patch and will continue to improve it after.

And even more. Today there is almost no difference between Normal and Difficult modes of Trials itemsets and it is something that makes HM totally useless. 10 Magica, Health or Stamina difference is nothing today. That’s why creating new loot-tables for trials you definitely should provide more value to HM-loot in compare with Normal-loot.

Wish to be heard since I definitely care about ESO high end PvE future.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_JasonLeavey @ZOS_RichLambert

R3DTHR3AT · July 2015

First of all it is necessary to consider the motivation for the players who want to go to trials as really good reward items and not only as stupid digits at ladder.

Nifty2g · July 2015

R3DTHR3AT wrote: »

First of all it is necessary to think about the motivation of the players who wanted to go to trials for really good items and not for stupid digits at ladder.

Half the gear from trials is useless

Fecius · July 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

R3DTHR3AT wrote: »

First of all it is necessary to think about the motivation of the players who wanted to go to trials for really good items and not for stupid digits at ladder.

Half the gear from trials is useless

Yeah, and exact this is a part of a huge problem of current PvE meta-game!

R3DTHR3AT · July 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

R3DTHR3AT wrote: »

First of all it is necessary to think about the motivation of the players who wanted to go to trials for really good items and not for stupid digits at ladder.

Half the gear from trials is useless

Half? Check items from AA and HRC. They are all useless. And btw, they are v12. ZOS didnt boost them for vr14 since this rank become top.

asneakybanana · July 2015

R3DTHR3AT wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

R3DTHR3AT wrote: »

First of all it is necessary to think about the motivation of the players who wanted to go to trials for really good items and not for stupid digits at ladder.

Half the gear from trials is useless

Half? Check items from AA and HRC. They are all useless. And btw, they are v12. ZOS didnt boost them for vr14 since this rank become top.

You can get them in v14 by doing the weekly and you can arguably still get some of the best jewelry in the game from doing those weeklies since it's the only for jewelry in the game other than healer and footman. However for many players that already have all the jewelry in gold v14 that's not enough. Even the so gear other than vicious 3 piece and maybe infal 3 piece for a support role player. Only thing keeping me and a lot of other people in trials is the competition, chasing that top score and working hard to develop new strategies to go faster.

R3DTHR3AT · July 2015

asneakybanana wrote: »

You can get them in v14 by doing the weekly and you can arguably still get some of the best jewelry in the game from doing those weeklies since it's the only for jewelry in the game other than healer and footman. However for many players that already have all the jewelry in gold v14 that's not enough. Even the so gear other than vicious 3 piece and maybe infal 3 piece for a support role player. Only thing keeping me and a lot of other people in trials is the competition, chasing that top score and working hard to develop new strategies to go faster.

Seems to be you did not notice the first part of my comment. Furthermore, you probably don't concerned about the quality of loot, missing new content etc., and the only thing you need is raiding hundreds of times in fusty AA, HRC & SO for +1 point in your ladder score. That's really sad and I hope ZOS will not listen you.

asneakybanana · July 2015

R3DTHR3AT wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

You can get them in v14 by doing the weekly and you can arguably still get some of the best jewelry in the game from doing those weeklies since it's the only for jewelry in the game other than healer and footman. However for many players that already have all the jewelry in gold v14 that's not enough. Even the so gear other than vicious 3 piece and maybe infal 3 piece for a support role player. Only thing keeping me and a lot of other people in trials is the competition, chasing that top score and working hard to develop new strategies to go faster.

Seems to be you did not notice the first part of my comment. Furthermore, you probably don't concerned about the quality of loot, missing new content etc., and the only thing you need is raiding hundred of times in fusty AA, HRC & SO for +1 point in your ladder score. That's really sad and I hope ZOS will not listen you.

I want trials gear to be fixed just as much as everyone else lol but even if they did fix it I already have all sets in gold v14 from aa, hr, and so. And did I not address aa and hr gear first? Talking about how the gold v14 jewelry from the weeklies was possibly best in slot in some cases even if the rest of the gear is a bit lacking.perhaps you would understand my post a little more if you could remember more than just the last line or 2.

wrathofrraath · July 2015

Nifty, you are the man.

Gilliamtherogue · July 2015

R3DTHR3AT wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

R3DTHR3AT wrote: »

First of all it is necessary to think about the motivation of the players who wanted to go to trials for really good items and not for stupid digits at ladder.

Half the gear from trials is useless

Half? Check items from AA and HRC. They are all useless. And btw, they are v12. ZOS didnt boost them for vr14 since this rank become top.

Except you know, the best in slot for Caster DK's, of the Sun...

Nifty2g · July 2015

Alcast wrote: »

1. Deactivate CP
2. Put in Death Penalty
3. Remove PvP Buffs - that is already on the way.

qft

also zos needs to stop forgetting this game is not a pvp game. it would be greatly appreciated if the problems in pvp would stop affecting pve hugely. and if we could have some focus around end game competition. majority of the guilds have left because it was ignored.

Fecius · July 2015

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

R3DTHR3AT wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

R3DTHR3AT wrote: »

First of all it is necessary to think about the motivation of the players who wanted to go to trials for really good items and not for stupid digits at ladder.

Half the gear from trials is useless

Half? Check items from AA and HRC. They are all useless. And btw, they are v12. ZOS didnt boost them for vr14 since this rank become top.

Except you know, the best in slot for Caster DK's, of the Sun...

Sun set is BoE crap. Anyone can just buy it. This is not the way you want to make an itemization in the end-game trials to motivate players farm it. It can motivate only gold-hunters. Unique BoP in trials should be valid to use. All of it, not only 2-3 pieces, IMHO ofc.

asneakybanana · July 2015

Fecius wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

R3DTHR3AT wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

R3DTHR3AT wrote: »

First of all it is necessary to think about the motivation of the players who wanted to go to trials for really good items and not for stupid digits at ladder.

Half the gear from trials is useless

Half? Check items from AA and HRC. They are all useless. And btw, they are v12. ZOS didnt boost them for vr14 since this rank become top.

Except you know, the best in slot for Caster DK's, of the Sun...

Sun set is BoE crap. Anyone can just buy it. This is not the way you want to make an itemization in the end-game trials to motivate players farm it. It can motivate only gold-hunters. Unique BoP in trials should be valid to use. All of it, not only 2-3 pieces, IMHO ofc.

I totally agree. It's stupid that the boe crap that drops like dreugh king, sun, warlock are all way more valuable and useful than the bop *** like aether and ophidian. Also the difference between normal fear and hard mode gear being literally so little the bonus from hm gear isn't even worth the mats to upgrade it to gold if you already have gold normal version is stupid. They should leave all the other gear as it is since all of that is old content and then update the hard mode serpent fear to be useful so it's actually worth it for people to farm that ***.

Gilliamtherogue · July 2015

Fecius wrote: »

Sun set is BoE crap. Anyone can just buy it. This is not the way you want to make an itemization in the end-game trials to motivate players farm it. It can motivate only gold-hunters. Unique BoP in trials should be valid to use. All of it, not only 2-3 pieces, IMHO ofc.

I was referring to the fact that not all sets from trials are garbage. You are arguing a different point completely, which I agree with.

However, 3 piece infalliable aether is a must to run in trials (just one person running it of course). It adds ~3% raidwide DPS, which is rather large.
5 piece Vicious Ophidian is amazing for grinding. Not ideal in terms of what we'd all like, but it has its uses.
Immortal Warrior remains to be pretty bad; Fun! But bad.

andy_s · July 2015

To continue the mad ideas... add +10k bonus for each player removed from a group, but it will work only for SO and DSA unfortunately

And add mantikora mount drop if you complete SO HM solo, or serpent outfit if you do it naked...

asneakybanana · July 2015

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Fecius wrote: »

Sun set is BoE crap. Anyone can just buy it. This is not the way you want to make an itemization in the end-game trials to motivate players farm it. It can motivate only gold-hunters. Unique BoP in trials should be valid to use. All of it, not only 2-3 pieces, IMHO ofc.

I was referring to the fact that not all sets from trials are garbage. You are arguing a different point completely, which I agree with.

However, 3 piece infalliable aether is a must to run in trials (just one person running it of course). It adds ~3% raidwide DPS, which is rather large.
5 piece Vicious Ophidian is amazing for grinding. Not ideal in terms of what we'd all like, but it has its uses.
Immortal Warrior remains to be pretty bad; Fun! But bad.

Immortal warrior is op for bubbles on serpent lol. Just have your tank sit there and basically free up a bubble got the rest of the raid. Well maybe it's not that good but it does have its use there.