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:Breaking News: Nerf This/Buff That

WolfgangArmadeus
WolfgangArmadeus
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Where did this gaming culture come from? Im not sure, but it is kind of sad how many developers succumb to it. I am referring to the "nerf this/buff that" post's that plague modern forums... I have witnessed it many times, to many great games. Most recently it was "Destiny". The game started strong. It functioned beautifully, it wasnt without some bugs and the need for some minor tweaks, but it was still great... Then something strange started to happen. "Why doesnt my weapon kill these people anymore?" It turns out a group of whiners hit the forums... "That weapon is OP, you need to nerf it. It is making it impossibke for me to get a kill."... The dev team sadly listened. The weapon was nerfed, it does less damage now, a worthless amount of damage, it is pointless to use... then the forums light up again.. "Why did you nerf my fav weapon? Its useless now." And a long string of nerf this and buff that began to ensue... Serious game crippling issues arose. Some weapons/skills/items became useless, plunging the game into a cookie cutter hack job... Everyone had the same gear, the same skills and the same weapons. All thanks to the nerf this/buff that gaming community.There are many top selling video games that kill themselves chasing quantity over quality and it is a tragedy in some cases. A tragedy that i fear will soon be taking over eso.

Every post i see is about one thing or another that doesnt suit someones play style, or concept of how the game "should" be. "This is OP, nerf it so i dont suck anymore", "My skill is worthless, buff it so i dont suck anymore". Often times, changes are made and they negatively affect something else, so they change something else to compensate. It goes on and on and on. Eventually they lose control and the game that once was great, becomes an unbalanced piece of recyclable. I hope ZOS knows better than to keep chasing this insatiable desire of the toxic gaming community that plagues game forums. It is always the same. It starts the same and it ends the same... It is already happening, just check out the forums, research the patches... They fix this and that breaks... It will never end...

Please no more changes to satisfy the insatiable appetites of the pvp crowd. One thing i have noticed in these pve/pvp hybrid games is that developers often destroy their own games in an attempt to appease these uninformed groups of gamers with limited hindsight and no consideration of mechanical consequence. There are hundreds of threads complaining about how this and that needs to be nerfed/buffed so I can spam o to get a kill instead of being required to push o then x to get a kill. Or "why is their shield so strong?" "Im only vr3, i cant even hurt vr14 when their shield is that strong, nerf shields now ZOS"... "I just started playing, increase xp so i can catch up to ppl who have been playing this game for a year", Increase xp so I can lvl up my 6th alt faster" It is becomming ridiculous how popular it is to try and get things nerfed/buffed.
It is very hard to find a post that actually suggests an overall beneficial adjustment to this game... its always someone crying about something that isnt "fair". You can stack shields too, you can bolt escape too, you can aoe too, you can grind too, quit crying about it. If thats not how you want to play, then dont, but dont try to change the game to suit yourself when it works just fine for others. I mean, If you don't like the game, then play something else. There are game breaking quest issues that still exist and the hot topics are "VR16 is stupid, i hate progression" , "CP system is impossible to exploit without grinding" , "It takes forever for me to max lvl my alt's" , "Nerf this/Buff that"

I feel bad for those who do not contribute to Forums, as they are the only voice for gamers, but are sadly crowded with diehard whiners/cheaters/exploiters who know flooding the forums is the best way to get what they want.


  • Skwor
    Skwor
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    eyes bleeding, death by text argghhhh
  • Xendyn
    Xendyn
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    So...Nerf PVPers?
    Lag is ruinin' my 'mershun!
    A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
    There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance - Socrates
    Member of the Old Guard, keepers of the game's history

    PC/NA
  • jkemmery
    jkemmery
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    Are you sure they listed to whiners, or looked at their statistics and saw that a majority of people were dying more frequently than what is statistically acceptable for most people to endure, and if they wanted to appeal to the greatest number of players, i.e. make as much money as possible (the whole point of a business venture like a video game) they needed to maximize mass appeal.

    Because it was explained that way by Zenimax regarding the nerfing process. If too many players were dying too often in a quest, they made it easier, because most people have a threshold of frustration beyond which they will give up. It's a game and meant to be entertaining. :o
  • WolfgangArmadeus
    WolfgangArmadeus
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    jkemmery wrote: »
    Are you sure they listed to whiners, or looked at their statistics and saw that a majority of people were dying more frequently than what is statistically acceptable for most people to endure, and if they wanted to appeal to the greatest number of players, i.e. make as much money as possible (the whole point of a business venture like a video game) they needed to maximize mass appeal.

    Because it was explained that way by Zenimax regarding the nerfing process. If too many players were dying too often in a quest, they made it easier, because most people have a threshold of frustration beyond which they will give up. It's a game and meant to be entertaining. :o

    I assume they listened to whiners, as now a lot of players are complaining that it is too easy. I am sure if enough complaints go out, they will make it hard again. But only if there are enough complaints... Which is the issue I am trying to address. People complain, then developers change it, then people complain still, then developers change it again...
    I am pretty sure it wasn't too hard to begin with, but some people didn't want to try so they just cried about it on the forums.
  • jkemmery
    jkemmery
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    jkemmery wrote: »
    Are you sure they listed to whiners, or looked at their statistics and saw that a majority of people were dying more frequently than what is statistically acceptable for most people to endure, and if they wanted to appeal to the greatest number of players, i.e. make as much money as possible (the whole point of a business venture like a video game) they needed to maximize mass appeal.

    Because it was explained that way by Zenimax regarding the nerfing process. If too many players were dying too often in a quest, they made it easier, because most people have a threshold of frustration beyond which they will give up. It's a game and meant to be entertaining. :o

    I assume they listened to whiners, as now a lot of players are complaining that it is too easy. I am sure if enough complaints go out, they will make it hard again. But only if there are enough complaints... Which is the issue I am trying to address. People complain, then developers change it, then people complain still, then developers change it again...
    I am pretty sure it wasn't too hard to begin with, but some people didn't want to try so they just cried about it on the forums.

    Yeah, I think you're wrong because it was explained by one of the senior Zenimax people just that way. They looked at the statistics kept in game, and modified to to have mass appeal. It's on one of the videos if you care to look.

    But hey, if you feel complaining is going to change it, I won't stop you LOL.
  • Zheg
    Zheg
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    Where did this gaming culture come from? Im not sure, but it is kind of sad how many developers succumb to it. I am referring to the "nerf this/buff that" post's that plague modern forums... I have witnessed it many times, to many great games. Most recently it was "Destiny". The game started strong. It functioned beautifully, it wasnt without some bugs and the need for some minor tweaks, but it was still great... Then something strange started to happen. "Why doesnt my weapon kill these people anymore?" It turns out a group of whiners hit the forums... "That weapon is OP, you need to nerf it. It is making it impossibke for me to get a kill."... The dev team sadly listened. The weapon was nerfed, it does less damage now, a worthless amount of damage, it is pointless to use... then the forums light up again.. "Why did you nerf my fav weapon? Its useless now." And a long string of nerf this and buff that began to ensue... Serious game crippling issues arose. Some weapons/skills/items became useless, plunging the game into a cookie cutter hack job... Everyone had the same gear, the same skills and the same weapons. All thanks to the nerf this/buff that gaming community.There are many top selling video games that kill themselves chasing quantity over quality and it is a tragedy in some cases. A tragedy that i fear will soon be taking over eso.

    Every post i see is about one thing or another that doesnt suit someones play style, or concept of how the game "should" be. "This is OP, nerf it so i dont suck anymore", "My skill is worthless, buff it so i dont suck anymore". Often times, changes are made and they negatively affect something else, so they change something else to compensate. It goes on and on and on. Eventually they lose control and the game that once was great, becomes an unbalanced piece of recyclable. I hope ZOS knows better than to keep chasing this insatiable desire of the toxic gaming community that plagues game forums. It is always the same. It starts the same and it ends the same... It is already happening, just check out the forums, research the patches... They fix this and that breaks... It will never end...

    Please no more changes to satisfy the insatiable appetites of the pvp crowd. One thing i have noticed in these pve/pvp hybrid games is that developers often destroy their own games in an attempt to appease these uninformed groups of gamers with limited hindsight and no consideration of mechanical consequence. There are hundreds of threads complaining about how this and that needs to be nerfed/buffed so I can spam o to get a kill instead of being required to push o then x to get a kill. Or "why is their shield so strong?" "Im only vr3, i cant even hurt vr14 when their shield is that strong, nerf shields now ZOS"... "I just started playing, increase xp so i can catch up to ppl who have been playing this game for a year", Increase xp so I can lvl up my 6th alt faster" It is becomming ridiculous how popular it is to try and get things nerfed/buffed.
    It is very hard to find a post that actually suggests an overall beneficial adjustment to this game... its always someone crying about something that isnt "fair". You can stack shields too, you can bolt escape too, you can aoe too, you can grind too, quit crying about it. If thats not how you want to play, then dont, but dont try to change the game to suit yourself when it works just fine for others. I mean, If you don't like the game, then play something else. There are game breaking quest issues that still exist and the hot topics are "VR16 is stupid, i hate progression" , "CP system is impossible to exploit without grinding" , "It takes forever for me to max lvl my alt's" , "Nerf this/Buff that"

    I feel bad for those who do not contribute to Forums, as they are the only voice for gamers, but are sadly crowded with diehard whiners/cheaters/exploiters who know flooding the forums is the best way to get what they want.


    You pretty much just copy pasta'd most of this wall of text from a post you made in a thread that had nothing to do with what you were talking about. I have news for you, everyone has been using cookie cutter builds since launch, but there's actually more than one cookie cutter build now, so at least there's that. Everyone used to run around in a dress and staff and be both tank and dps at the same time back when there were soft caps.

    Maybe your problems aren't with the playerbase, but with how ZOS implements balance.
  • Skwor
    Skwor
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    jkemmery wrote: »
    Are you sure they listed to whiners, or looked at their statistics and saw that a majority of people were dying more frequently than what is statistically acceptable for most people to endure, and if they wanted to appeal to the greatest number of players, i.e. make as much money as possible (the whole point of a business venture like a video game) they needed to maximize mass appeal.

    Because it was explained that way by Zenimax regarding the nerfing process. If too many players were dying too often in a quest, they made it easier, because most people have a threshold of frustration beyond which they will give up. It's a game and meant to be entertaining. :o

    I assume they listened to whiners, as now a lot of players are complaining that it is too easy. I am sure if enough complaints go out, they will make it hard again. But only if there are enough complaints... Which is the issue I am trying to address. People complain, then developers change it, then people complain still, then developers change it again...
    I am pretty sure it wasn't too hard to begin with, but some people didn't want to try so they just cried about it on the forums.

    I am pretty critical of game developers but truth be told they do not make these changes irrationally or without thinking it through.

    The developers of TESO have done a great job of changing those things that need changed to keep the game vibrant and fun. A few areas have not been addressed but overall things have been done very well by them imo.
  • PBpsy
    PBpsy
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    Did somebody nerf your sweet roll.?

    never mind . Yes they did... :s
    Edited by PBpsy on July 10, 2015 10:11PM
    ESO forums achievements
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    Fan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)
  • WolfgangArmadeus
    WolfgangArmadeus
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    Skwor wrote: »

    I am pretty critical of game developers but truth be told they do not make these changes irrationally or without thinking it through.

    The developers of TESO have done a great job of changing those things that need changed to keep the game vibrant and fun. A few areas have not been addressed but overall things have been done very well by them imo.


    Completely agree, so far they haven't done too terribly. There are signs that they favor the crowd over a stable enjoyable game though. That is what I am getting at. I merely hope they don't decide to appease more and more of these crazy requests. They tend to drown out the real issues.
  • Taleof2Cities
    Taleof2Cities
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    While I do agree with the OP to some extent (especially with players who whine about not being able to play the game "their way" or "purplz lootz fer evryonez") ... we don't want to suppress forum discussion on items that are actually bugs or really do need buffs/nerfs.

    As an example, Eric Wrobel has mentioned a number of combat fixes that have directly resulted from forum discussion or gameplay on PTS (including a handful last week on ESO Live).

    Sometimes our gripes are legitimate.
    Edited by Taleof2Cities on July 10, 2015 10:20PM
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