When is steel tornado going to get the impulse treatment?

Joy_Division · July 2015

^^ Wrobel said he Steel Tornado was working as intended in the last episode of ESO Live.

Alcast · July 2015

Nice,Steeltorando OP and now they boost Volley duration

I am happy

Zsymon · July 2015

Well Volley is very weak and completely ignored by most people. Volley has five times less the dps of a Snipe, this extremely low dps won't change with the update so I doubt people will suddenly start using it now. They would have to triple Volley damage ticks for it to be of any use.

timidobserver · July 2015

Haven't you heard. Stam is underpowered.

BigTone · July 2015

For me, it comes down to the fact that an instant cast wide range AoE move should not hit harder than most single target abilities. I've been hit for 11k steel tornados in 5 pieces of light armor.

The thing with proxy det is that it atleast has a cast time which gives you the ability to get out of the way.

There is a reason steel tornado is nicknamed "spin to win"

Leandor · July 2015

Meh, to much off topic. Deleted comment.

Joy_Division · July 2015

Baphomet wrote: »

Believe *bump* is the word I am looking for ^_^

The dev might think it's working like it's intended, but then we need to convince him otherwise!

He thinks wall of elements is a viable skill in 1.6 and sorcerers dual wield swords actually use melee attacks. Don't see that happening.

BigTone · July 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Believe *bump* is the word I am looking for ^_^

The dev might think it's working like it's intended, but then we need to convince him otherwise!

He thinks wall of elements is a viable skill in 1.6 and sorcerers dual wield swords actually use melee attacks. Don't see that happening.

But my magicka based sorc caster using dial wielding swords makes perfect sense. Oh wait thats complete bullsh*t!

OakRaiders228 · July 2015

Soooo basically I have been wondering is I should morph my ability to Whilrling Blades to get the Stam recovery or Steel Tornado for the Increased range.....I guess I'm going increased range seeing that people are complaining about it.....right? Lol

PBpsy · July 2015

OakRaiders228 wrote: »

Soooo basically I have been wondering is I should morph my ability to Whilrling Blades to get the Stam recovery or Steel Tornado for the Increased range.....I guess I'm going increased range seeing that people are complaining about it.....right? Lol

Since around, many many many patches ago stam builds should not have any or much resource management problems if you built right. Morphing to Steel Tornado is not much of a choice really. it is simply the best AOE skill in the game.

kadar · July 2015

BigTone wrote: »

For me, it comes down to the fact that an instant cast wide range AoE move should not hit harder than most single target abilities. I've been hit for 11k steel tornados in 5 pieces of light armor.

The thing with proxy det is that it atleast has a cast time which gives you the ability to get out of the way.

There is a reason steel tornado is nicknamed "spin to win"

11k? The highest steel tornado hit I've taken was 10.5k. And that was a crit . While I was in execute range.
While the highest Executioner, for example, I've been hit with was a crit for over 19k.

To my knowledge, Tornado doesn't hit harder than a single target ability of the same type.

Vizier · July 2015

Baphomet wrote: »

Well, fair should be fair.

Revert impulse and talons then, and uncap inhale again (or at least cap it at 6 like sap essence)

OHH I KNOWWWW. There's so much problems in PvP with Steel Tornado Zergs.... LOL. Oh wait. No there's not.

I think the nerfs to impulse spamage and talons spam has been working out just fine for PvP in general. TYVM.

Morvul · July 2015

back when impulse range was nerfed, impulse was significantly stronger than Steel Tornado (because magicka builds were stronger than stamina builds).
Nowadays, steel tornado does higher damage than impulse even when the target is NOT in execute range (because weaponpower goes higher then spellpower, and there are more ways to mitigate spelldamage then there are ways to mitigate physical damage), has over twice the range (12.5 versus 6 meter radius) AND has an build in execute on top of it.

Whoever believes that is balanced needs to seriously start using those braincells for more then autonomous functions.

And if Wrobel believes "working as designed" is the same as "working as is good for the game", he seriously needs a different job...

Vizier · July 2015

If it was as good as you are claiming it would be the FOTM and all we see in Cyrodiil. As it is I almost never get hit by ST whereas before the Impulse nerf It's all anyone with a staff was using, which was about 80% of the player base.

This is so much of a non-issue it's funny to see the qq. So much, "This Therefor That" mentality from the haters. It's called balancing the game. The synergy between impulse and other skills with large groups is what killed it and rightfully so. Steel Tornado simply isn't that, which is why it's not been a problem even after it was buffed.

eliisra · July 2015

Vizier wrote: »

If it was as good as you are claiming it would be the FOTM and all we see in Cyrodiil. As it is I almost never get hit by ST whereas before the Impulse nerf It's all anyone with a staff was using, which was about 80% of the player base.

I find that very hard to believe, unless you play on Console or Blackwater Blade or simliar where raids aren't maximizing and blobbing around.

I have 5+ Steel Tornado on my death recap every single *** day and I play on different EU/PC campaigns.

Right now about 75% of all our organized zerg-blobs only stack maces+sharpened and Steel Tornado because broken as hell.

The other 25% still have a few magicka users and mix it up with both Tornado and Proxi.

This is just as bad as the old Impulse trains. Actually worse, because much larger radius on Steel Tornado that conveniently works when everything else is lagged out. Blobs also abuse it with mace + sharp bug ofc, so even heavy armor user take full dmg from 20+ guys mashing 1 button.

I dont get how anyone can defend it really. You need to spam Steel Tornado in PvE or something?

Was truly happy to see the nerf to Impulse myself. I despised the Impulse blobs, just as much as the next guy. But since it's just being replace with another brain-dead PBAoE, that does even more dmg, they might as well turn Impulse back to it's old form. At least than magicka builds would have half-decent AoE in PvE compared to stam builds.

Morvul · July 2015

Vizier wrote: »

If it was as good as you are claiming it would be the FOTM and all we see in Cyrodiil. As it is I almost never get hit by ST whereas before the Impulse nerf It's all anyone with a staff was using, which was about 80% of the player base.

This is so much of a non-issue it's funny to see the qq. So much, "This Therefor That" mentality from the haters. It's called balancing the game. The synergy between impulse and other skills with large groups is what killed it and rightfully so. Steel Tornado simply isn't that, which is why it's not been a problem even after it was buffed.

If you rarely see ST in cyrodiil, I suggest you actually go to cyrodiil for once

seriously: in every semi-organised group, roughly half the folks spam steel tornado (the other half spams proximity detonation). pretty much exactly like everyone used to spam impulse when THAT was the best AoE...

Vizier · July 2015

eliisra wrote: »

I find that very hard to believe, unless you play on Console or Blackwater Blade or simliar where raids aren't maximizing and blobbing around.
I have 5+ Steel Tornado on my death recap every single *** day and I play on different EU/PC campaigns.

Morvul wrote: »

If you rarely see ST in cyrodiil, I suggest you actually go to cyrodiil for once
seriously: in every semi-organised group, roughly half the folks spam steel tornado (the other half spams proximity detonation). pretty much exactly like everyone used to spam impulse when THAT was the best AoE...

Shrug to both of you. About all I do is PvP. Sometimes I break it up leveling an alt in Cadwell's but since I really can't stand that my time is spent in Cyrodiil, both in vet and non-vet campaigns. Thing is I almost never see ST on my death recap. Maybe your just doing it wrong.(not sayin anythin..just sayin.) That said I don't get caught much by Zergs for that matter either, as my main is a pretty mobile NB. Thing is, while I don't get caught in the open by a Zerg or even a mini-Zerg often, I do observe them and my observation is ST simply isn't as prominent as Impulse was back in the day. But hey, that's just one man's voice.

Morvul · July 2015

Vizier wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

I find that very hard to believe, unless you play on Console or Blackwater Blade or simliar where raids aren't maximizing and blobbing around.
I have 5+ Steel Tornado on my death recap every single *** day and I play on different EU/PC campaigns.

Morvul wrote: »

If you rarely see ST in cyrodiil, I suggest you actually go to cyrodiil for once
seriously: in every semi-organised group, roughly half the folks spam steel tornado (the other half spams proximity detonation). pretty much exactly like everyone used to spam impulse when THAT was the best AoE...

Shrug to both of you. About all I do is PvP. Sometimes I break it up leveling an alt in Cadwell's but since I really can't stand that my time is spent in Cyrodiil, both in vet and non-vet campaigns. Thing is I almost never see ST on my death recap. Maybe your just doing it wrong.(not sayin anythin..just sayin.) That said I don't get caught much by Zergs for that matter either, as my main is a pretty mobile NB. Thing is, while I don't get caught in the open by a Zerg or even a mini-Zerg often, I do observe them and my observation is ST simply isn't as prominent as Impulse was back in the day. But hey, that's just one man's voice.

well, I play a bolting sorcerer. Hence I also rarely get caught by the zerg and therefore rarely see Steel Tornado on my death recap.
That does not change the fact that pretty much every semi-organised zerg is full of ST spammers, and my death recap IS filled with STs in the rare occations I do get caught by the zerg.
But when you actually look at the zerg, half of them are busy getting headaches from constantly spinning STs... The visualls are not quite as flashy as impulse was/is - maybe that's why you don't notice it quite as much...

That said: in the really good stack-groups, the other half of the ST spammers lights up coordinated proxi detonations every couple seconds (gives all those templar healers a way to contribute too...)

Sanct16 · July 2015

Vizier wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

I find that very hard to believe, unless you play on Console or Blackwater Blade or simliar where raids aren't maximizing and blobbing around.
I have 5+ Steel Tornado on my death recap every single *** day and I play on different EU/PC campaigns.

Morvul wrote: »

If you rarely see ST in cyrodiil, I suggest you actually go to cyrodiil for once
seriously: in every semi-organised group, roughly half the folks spam steel tornado (the other half spams proximity detonation). pretty much exactly like everyone used to spam impulse when THAT was the best AoE...

Shrug to both of you. About all I do is PvP. Sometimes I break it up leveling an alt in Cadwell's but since I really can't stand that my time is spent in Cyrodiil, both in vet and non-vet campaigns. Thing is I almost never see ST on my death recap. Maybe your just doing it wrong.(not sayin anythin..just sayin.) That said I don't get caught much by Zergs for that matter either, as my main is a pretty mobile NB. Thing is, while I don't get caught in the open by a Zerg or even a mini-Zerg often, I do observe them and my observation is ST simply isn't as prominent as Impulse was back in the day. But hey, that's just one man's voice.

The problem is, back with the impulse spam group you could counter them and wipe them easily with few people.

Now there is no counter to 30 ppl spamming Steel Tornado and rotating barriers.

trimsic_ESO · July 2015

Baphomet wrote: »

Many of you probably remember the impulse zergs back in the day, and subsequently the ability was nerfed multiple times until people stopped complaining about it.

In steel tornado, we now have an ability that has an even larger radius, does more damage, is cheaper AND has an execute.

Where's the logic, @Zenimax?

Can we expect a warranted change this ability too, anytime soon? The whirlwind zergs are out there, just like the impulse ones of old.

Proximity detonation is much more powerful than steel tornado when well coordinated in a raid group. Plus, stamina players need some reasons to play a stamina build in a raid, and steel tornado is probably the unique reason left.

aco5712 · July 2015

imo, the problem with steel tornado lies with dual wielding maces for the 100% pen instead of the ability. Although a little dmg nerf like 10% or something would make it a good skill but not OP.

Zsymon · July 2015

Imo Impulse should be restored to its previous range, rather than Steel Tornado nerfed.

Maces shouldn't be giving 100% pen, that seems like a bug, so fix that first I'd say. Steel Tornado actually does low damage, the same as Cleave, a lot less than Impulse or say Crystal Blast or Daedric Curse, and four to five times less than Detonation. It gets twice as strong as Cleave in execute range, which is about 15% weaker than Surprise Attack or Flame Whip.

The only problem I see here is the mace pen bug.