so i cant "animation cancel" ? i'm now not compitant enough to play damage?

dsalter · July 2015

so your telling me because i cant/wont abuse how broken the "mechanic" that is "weaving"meaning a broken aspect of how combat was poorly thought through where spazzing buttons to cancel animations = higher damage output, i cant compete with those that do?

pathetic.

Edit: altered title, got weaving confused with animation canceling >_<

OzJohnD · July 2015

button spamming has been around for decades .. why change now ?

Reverb · July 2015

I wasn't telling you this before now, but since you brought it up...

If you don't practice animation canceling and light/med attack weaving, you are less effective and competitive than those who do.

tplink3r1 · July 2015

OzJohnD wrote: »

button spamming has been around for decades .. why change now ?

Same for cyrodiil LAG, why change now?

dlepi24 · July 2015

weaving isn't really the same as animation cancelling which is what you're referring to. I know you can animation cancel with weave, but weaving is more or less just doing light attacks between abilities. At least to my understanding it is.

Reverb · July 2015

dlepi24 wrote: »

weaving isn't really the same as animation cancelling which is what you're referring to. I know you can animation cancel with weave, but weaving is more or less just doing light attacks between abilities. At least to my understanding it is.

This, you should be weaving for dps and faster ultimate generation even if you don't go "full Monty" into animation canceling.

dsalter · July 2015

Reverb wrote: »

dlepi24 wrote: »

weaving isn't really the same as animation cancelling which is what you're referring to. I know you can animation cancel with weave, but weaving is more or less just doing light attacks between abilities. At least to my understanding it is.

This, you should be weaving for dps and faster ultimate generation even if you don't go "full Monty" into animation canceling.

weaving and animation canceling aren't the same thing?

OzJohnD · July 2015

Moezilla · July 2015

I should make a video to explain this. Either way if you want to increase your dps you should practice weaving light/med attacks. If youre doing it correcly, you should be able to go from one ability to the next without even noticing the weapon moving, but it will still do damage.

patrykplawskib16_ESO · July 2015

Weaving is a important aspect for dps'ing no matter how you feel about it. Also animation cancelling is different from weaving tho you can combine both to do more dmg but in return is needed more skill for it. literately all you have to do is trigger a abilitie and than do a light attack and quickly release and activate the next abilitie, not hard to weave, animation cancelling however is a different story.

OrangeTheCat · July 2015

I agree with you OP; it's exploiting. But ZOS said long ago that they were cool with it (i.e., either they won't fix it or, don't know how, or (more likely) it would be too hard to fix).

Phinix1 · July 2015

dsalter wrote: »

so your telling me because i cant/wont abuse how broken the "mechanic" that is "weaving"meaning a broken aspect of how combat was poorly thought through where spazzing buttons to cancel animations = higher damage output, i cant compete with those that do?

I really wish people would stop with the "light/heavy attack weaving is broken" spiel already.

It isn't broken at all. It is more complex. People are required to adapt to be optimal. Simple as that. Just look at all the interesting class, armor, weapon, and passive synergies that proc off light/heavy attacks.

Light and heavy attacks are there for a reason. You are SUPPOSED to use them. Use them to restore mana/stamina. Use them to proc enchants. Use them to increase DPS.

Saying it is broken is like blaming the hammer when you miss the nail.

It just requires practice and it will become second nature. Besides, if your DPS is SO bad that team members are noticing even when the game doesn't allow you to see other players' DPS through the API, then I promise there is more than attack weaving going wrong.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

dsalter wrote: »

so your telling me because i cant/wont abuse how broken the "mechanic" that is "weaving"meaning a broken aspect of how combat was poorly thought through where spazzing buttons to cancel animations = higher damage output, i cant compete with those that do?

pathetic.

Edit: altered title, got weaving confused with animation canceling >_<

Um... You should probably know, animation "cancelling" to weave attacks isn't actually cancelling anything, it just alters the visual and nothing else. Mechanically all it means is alternating attack types quickly so you aren't overlapping the reuse cooldowns between a skill, and a weapon attack. This is such a basic concept baked into the combat system and intuitive when first playing the game ever, that I did it he very first few minutes thinking nothing of it until post launch when suddenly a big hype about "anim canceling!!" sprung up, which was incredulous to me as I hadn't ever seen someone NOT just doing it while playing normally because it's so readily intuited during gameplay. There is no broken thing being exploited... Just misconception on your part

.

Egonieser · July 2015

I didn't do or even realize about animation cancelling until sometime last month, i did hear about it but it just flew over my head. Then when i saw someone bring it up in one topic saying how you can almost double your DPS by properly utilizing weave+cancel i looked up some videos and was astounded, not sure if in a good way as it just felt broken and unintended and unnatural, but nevertheless i started practicing it.
At first i just couldn't get my head around cancelling after every light/med attack+skill as some had different animation times and cancel prematurely and some don't. I was practicing like a madman on one zombie grinding spot, even got a full veteran rank in less than an hour and didn't realize it I was so cought up in it all, but it didn't feel right and i just couldn't do it properly and gave up and instead went with the usual weaving.

A few days later.. My fingers were doing it automatically without thinking and i thought - it finally clicked. My brain just needed a rest to process it and ever since i just can't play any other way, my fingers are so used to the routine i can't stop doing it, only when really forcing myself not to, and even then the block button keeps sneaking in without me realizing it.

However, i am not a big fan of the cancelling concept, it just feels broken and wrong. I do utilize it cuz now I only pvp and not using it there is basically suicide. But if they finally decide to fix it and remove it - i won't loose sleep over it. In fact i'll be glad to finally pvp properly without people spamming invisible cancelled skills like hyperactive bunnies.

Lord of the Rings Online got it right. AT first it had no animation cancelling, skills had to do their duration before executing the next one, but eventually to speed up the combat and make it more fluid they added "timers" on skill animations, like "Long, Medium, Short, Instant" Long usually being the most powerful but slowest and it comes down from there, but the instant was a interrupt skill and it was intended to be used that way to cancel the animations of long skills and it also worked as a interrupt skill against enemy channel/induction based attacks. It felt right and it didn't feel overpowering as you had to time it right and use it in the right circumstances as it had a cooldown, use it wrong and you are ***, especially where split seconds matter (pvp/raidbosses etc).
In eso it is constant and nonstop and just doesn't feel right, but then again - if it is there to be used, I will use it because why shouldn't I. But it doesn't mean I particularly like it. In a way I feel forced to use it, otherwise i'm not viable in PvP or hardcode veteran runs.

Natjur · July 2015

To get on leader boards (VDSA) and trials you need a group that can max their dps.
(even the healer should be pulling 10k dps)
If the group does not want to take you on speed runs cause your DPS is not maxed out, and this is cause you do not weave....
Then sorry you will miss out but that is like 1% of the game.

If some random pug doing a vet dungeon run hassles you for not weaving..... there they are the issue.

Trials and Vdsa is easy even if your not weaving to get max dps. Only speed runs for leader board places is where its an issue and I understand players not wanting to take you for those if you are not weaving.

tordr86b16_ESO · July 2015

At OP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb0O9zjMDN4

Molsondry · July 2015

If you dont animation cancel you skill into medium weaving your losing some dps , not that much, but its considerable , maybe 5-10% also lacking the regen from it.

Arunei · July 2015

I've been doing this without even realizing it. I habitually spam the LMB in combat; I guess I've been both weaving and animation cancelling ever since I started playing XD. I never even did it for increased DPS, it was only because spamming light attacks is the fastest way to rebuild Ult (which as a lot of us know can be crucial, especially in PvP).

If this is seriously all animation cancelling is then I don't understand what the big fuss is. How is this an exploit or, well, anything other than pretty much just spamming your light attacks when firing off abilities?

Drasn · July 2015

Arunei wrote: »

I've been doing this without even realizing it. I habitually spam the LMB in combat; I guess I've been both weaving and animation cancelling ever since I started playing XD. I never even did it for increased DPS, it was only because spamming light attacks is the fastest way to rebuild Ult (which as a lot of us know can be crucial, especially in PvP).

If this is seriously all animation cancelling is then I don't understand what the big fuss is. How is this an exploit or, well, anything other than pretty much just spamming your light attacks when firing off abilities?

What you are doing is weaving.

Animation canceling is using well-timed blocks to cancel the animations of skills while still doing the skill's damage, allowing you to use your light/medium attack sooner than you would have been able to had you let the animation run its full length.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Arunei wrote: »

I've been doing this without even realizing it. I habitually spam the LMB in combat; I guess I've been both weaving and animation cancelling ever since I started playing XD. I never even did it for increased DPS, it was only because spamming light attacks is the fastest way to rebuild Ult (which as a lot of us know can be crucial, especially in PvP).

If this is seriously all animation cancelling is then I don't understand what the big fuss is. How is this an exploit or, well, anything other than pretty much just spamming your light attacks when firing off abilities?

It isn't.... unfortunately, as with a lot of math or game mechanics, there is a very, very big perception issue and large amount of misinformation being recycled in the community on a broader basis on it.

k2blader · July 2015

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

What you are doing is weaving.

Animation canceling is using well-timed blocks to cancel the animations of skills while still doing the skill's damage, allowing you to use your light/medium attack sooner than you would have been able to had you let the animation run its full length.

Has Zeni confirmed that is not exploiting?

Is this situation the natural result of no skill cooldowns?

Drasn · July 2015

k2blader wrote: »

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

What you are doing is weaving.

Animation canceling is using well-timed blocks to cancel the animations of skills while still doing the skill's damage, allowing you to use your light/medium attack sooner than you would have been able to had you let the animation run its full length.

Has Zeni confirmed that is not exploiting?

Is this situation the natural result of no skill cooldowns?

IIRC it was stated that it is not an exploit, but rather, an unintended consequence of the combat design.

There are global cooldowns. Animation canceling does not let you circumvent the cooldown. However, the animations do not line up with the cooldowns.

The cooldown between light/medium/heavy attacks is a little over 1 second.
Skills have their own global cooldown which again is a little over 1 second.

Any skill that has instant damage but an animation longer than 1 second should be blocked out of for a DPS increase while weaving light/medium attacks. You don't have to block out of light/medium attacks because skills automatically cancel that animation for you.

Isarii · July 2015

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

I agree with you OP; it's exploiting. But ZOS said long ago that they were cool with it (i.e., either they won't fix it or, don't know how, or (more likely) it would be too hard to fix).

It's not that they can't or don't know how to fix it, it's they legitimately feel the mechanic adds more depth and a higher skill cap to DPS play - which it does.

k2blader · July 2015

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

IIRC it was stated that it is not an exploit, but rather, an unintended consequence of the combat design.

There are global cooldowns. Animation canceling does not let you circumvent the cooldown. However, the animations do not line up with the cooldowns.

The cooldown between light/medium/heavy attacks is a little over 1 second.
Skills have their own global cooldown which again is a little over 1 second.

Any skill that has instant damage but an animation longer than 1 second should be blocked out of for a DPS increase while weaving light/medium attacks. You don't have to block out of light/medium attacks because skills automatically cancel that animation for you.

Thank you for the explanation. Yeah, by "cooldowns" I meant how in other games some skills could have 2+ second cooldowns where they couldn't be used at all, nevermind the animation cancelling. In general I think actual cooldowns require more skill, but I digress.

Olivierko · July 2015

What's the problem?

It might as well be considered as a working mechanic which actually distinguishes someone who wants to pull out as much damage as they can from someone who's perfectly fine with just playing the game the way they want to.

If you don't like animation cancelling then don't animation cancel, no need to create a thread stating the obvious that animation cancelling outputs more DPS compared to not doing it.

No one is forcing you to do it, if anything, using macros in order to do it should be bannable but that's a different topic.

jeevin · July 2015

I've said this before in a similar thread. If Zos is going to say we can't fix it so it's now a feature, there needs to be a tutorial quest from the beginning of the game for introducing new players the mechanics behind weaving and animation cancelling. Maybe Cadwell could explain the mystery of being able to land damage on your foes between skills without even swinging your weapon. It's as ridiculous as it sounds.

SickDuck · July 2015

jeevin wrote: »

I've said this before in a similar thread. If Zos is going to say we can't fix it so it's now a feature, there needs to be a tutorial quest from the beginning of the game for introducing new players the mechanics behind weaving and animation cancelling. Maybe Cadwell could explain the mystery of being able to land damage on your foes between skills without even swinging your weapon. It's as ridiculous as it sounds.

Damn, just wanted to say exactly the same. Well done Sir!

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Isarii wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

I agree with you OP; it's exploiting. But ZOS said long ago that they were cool with it (i.e., either they won't fix it or, don't know how, or (more likely) it would be too hard to fix).

It's not that they can't or don't know how to fix it, it's they legitimately feel the mechanic adds more depth and a higher skill cap to DPS play - which it does.

@Isarii hit the nail on the head.

jeevin wrote: »

I've said this before in a similar thread. If Zos is going to say we can't fix it so it's now a feature, there needs to be a tutorial quest from the beginning of the game for introducing new players the mechanics behind weaving and animation cancelling. Maybe Cadwell could explain the mystery of being able to land damage on your foes between skills without even swinging your weapon. It's as ridiculous as it sounds.

You are swinging your weapon, and alternating it between using skills. There's no need for a tutorial... I imagine the large majority of people do it without even noticing or thinking about it because it's intuitively realized within a few minutes' worth of fighting at the start of the game.