About nerfing grind-spots

emkv93b16_ESO · July 2015

smokes wrote: »

emkv93b16_ESO wrote: »

well, neither skyrim, oblibion or morrowind is a MMO game.
And why are you so offensive man? I just pointed out something in my point of view.
And for the record. I already have a VR14 character, which I have done ALL the quests for ALL the factions, so I have allready been through all that quest content, voice-overs, hundreds of pages of lore you speak about.
All that is done, and it was a lot of hours. I don't want to go through all that again on my alt, just to reach end-game so I can PvP.

and neither is ESO a single player game...

if you're offended by my stance, i do apologise, but grinding really is not the way an RPG should be played, be that single player RPG or MMORPG.

fair play to you going through cadwells gold and silver, i've done it too. the point is, as pointed out by everybody in the "the day ESO dies" thread from deltia, is that grind to win is not a good design philosophy.

there's also a lot of people coming in and trying to legitimise grinding as a playstyle when it's an abhorrent abuse of ingame systems for personal advantage over other players purely through time spent playing.

it's bad and anyone that supports that structure of endgame progression should feel bad.

edit: autocorrect

I see your point.
I'm not saying grinding should be the only way to play, far from it. I loved the questing and immersion in this game.
But after going through hours and hours of questing in both 1-50 zones, coldharbour and cadwell's silver and gold, I got tired of it.
I've done all quests, there is nothing left to do, other than end-game content like trials, vet dungeons and PvP.

I'm just saying that we should be able to play whatever style we want. If you want to do quests, fine. If you want to grind, fine.
I do not enjoy grinding. But I'd rather grind my alt to max-level than doing all the quests again, where 50% of the time you are running between questgivers.

EDIT: typing-errors

smokes · July 2015

Faulgor wrote: »

smokes wrote: »

because that the elder scrolls everybody loves right - everyone has fond memories of grinding mobs in a cave in skyrim to level up right? in oblivion? in morrowind? yea, those were all super grindy games, so obviously zenimax wants to continue that tradition of making the grind mandatory.

lol, spamming 0 cost Muffle in my house in Whiterun to level Illusion from 15 to 100, such riveting gameplay.

If you enjoy running from one NPC to the next spamming the E key, have at it. I wonder why that would entitle you to speak of "skill", though.

Some people enjoy combat, which is probably the most integral part of an RPG. I don't quite understand why that is so outrageous.

why are you playing RPGS and not call of duty? you obviously have no affinity for the story, which all mmorpgs are steeped in.

oh yes, talking to npc's absolutely requires skill - wtf man. 90% of quests require you to kill something. if you're not learning whilst progressing through the core content of the game you're not actually playing the game.

if all you want to do is get to endgame and you see grinding as a viable route to get there, if not the mandatory way of getting there, then you're likely part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Sacadon · July 2015

smokes wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

smokes wrote: »

because that the elder scrolls everybody loves right - everyone has fond memories of grinding mobs in a cave in skyrim to level up right? in oblivion? in morrowind? yea, those were all super grindy games, so obviously zenimax wants to continue that tradition of making the grind mandatory.

lol, spamming 0 cost Muffle in my house in Whiterun to level Illusion from 15 to 100, such riveting gameplay.

If you enjoy running from one NPC to the next spamming the E key, have at it. I wonder why that would entitle you to speak of "skill", though.

Some people enjoy combat, which is probably the most integral part of an RPG. I don't quite understand why that is so outrageous.

why are you playing RPGS and not call of duty? you obviously have no affinity for the story, which all mmorpgs are steeped in.

oh yes, talking to npc's absolutely requires skill - wtf man. 90% of quests require you to kill something. if you're not learning whilst progressing through the core content of the game you're not actually playing the game.

if all you want to do is get to endgame and you see grinding as a viable route to get there, if not the mandatory way of getting there, then you're likely part of the problem and not part of the solution.

I do think that if you're not going to PvP, then it would be wise of you to you should run at least 1 or 2 characters through all content in order to learn your character and basic game mechanics. I've taken all 5 of my VR14's through to the end of Cadwells gold and they frequently improve upon how dynamic the NPC's fight. Still it's nothing compared to fighting another player (the rare chance that happens).

Even if players choose to avoid all content, unless they're just skilled they'll hit a brick wall anyway trying to do any of the end game content and get totally rekt in PvP.

EDIT: Who cares why people do what they do? I do like to know out of curiosity, but the reasons are mostly irrelevant because we get to do what we want and without the need of approval from others (thankfully).

Faulgor · July 2015

smokes wrote: »

why are you playing RPGS and not call of duty? you obviously have no affinity for the story, which all mmorpgs are steeped in.

No, they are not. But even if they were, I just can't stand doing quests more than once. If you already know the narrative, if you know the story and what's going to happen, the experience is entirely different. Same reason I don't read books over and over again, or watch the same movie every day.

smokes wrote: »

if all you want to do is get to endgame and you see grinding as a viable route to get there, if not the mandatory way of getting there, then you're likely part of the problem and not part of the solution.

You apparently don't understand. I don't want to grind to get to "endgame", progression PvE is why I play the game at all. The way is the goal.
And nobody said "grinding" should be mandatory. I'm not telling people how to enjoy the game, you are. Which is exactly why tons of people left: Because they were forced through the questing tunnel of Cadwell's to reach max level. But I'm part of the problem because I'm advocating more variety in challenging, engaging und rewarding gameplay, right.

Tolmos · July 2015

I hate the idea of nerfing something AFTER a bunch of people have taken advantage of it. I feel like it only serves a purpose of burning the bridges of people who took the easy route to get to high spots, AFTER they got there. That way, as people behind them are struggling and fighting legitimately to get to the same spot the folks at the top were just placed willy-nilly, the folks at the top are enjoying their ill-earned rewards.

And those folks always look down at the newbies and say "Hey, quit complaining! It was hard for us to get here, too, you know!", silver spoon flapping in their mouths.

smokes · July 2015

emkv93b16_ESO wrote: »

I'm just saying that we should be able to play whatever style we want. If you want to do quests, fine. If you want to grind, fine.
I do not enjoy grinding. But I'd rather grind my alt to max-level than doing all the quests again, where 50% of the time you are running between questgivers.

that i can agree with you on - it's the endgame "grind to win" mentality that is the problem and a lot of the grind spots were nerfed because they are reflected as high end grind areas in the alternate factions veteran areas.

until grind to win is removed, grinding will not be recieved with optimism.

i'm not one to remove options for levelling - level however the hell you want. but as soon as grinding becomes the way to numerically outplay someone rather than through skill, then that is the day the game dies. (which has been pointed out a lot the last few days)

some people like deltia, recognise that and it hits him directly in the pocket as he earns a living off playing ESO - but there's others who purely want that option because they have the time to put in and have nothing better to do.

a large part of your complaint is the fact that getting to level cap takes forever - you have to play through the game 3 times to get VR14 if you do it via quests. which will take the average person 6 months to a year.

whereas it's been reported on the forums that grinding to VR14 can be done in a few days.

levelling through quests to VR1 can be done in a few days, but then, thats not the level cap, it's cadwells that puts the pressure on players to grind as the most lucrative way to level. generally anyone with an endgame focus in mind will take the path of least resistance to end level. which in eso's current state is grinding, which is slowly killing it.

honestly, i could debate this stuff for hours, i watched 9 years of WoW development very closely and picked up on all their issues before they became issues, i've done the same thing with ESO and i've pleaded on the forums for them to see sense.

it's bizarre. ESO is only just over a year old, yet it feels like it's been out for 5 years and had multiple expansions because of how far away the endgame is for a new player.

smokes · July 2015

Faulgor wrote: »

You apparently don't understand. I don't want to grind to get to "endgame", progression PvE is why I play the game at all. The way is the goal.
And nobody said "grinding" should be mandatory. I'm not telling people how to enjoy the game, you are. Which is exactly why tons of people left: Because they were forced through the questing tunnel of Cadwell's to reach max level. But I'm part of the problem because I'm advocating more variety in challenging, engaging und rewarding gameplay, right.

i'm sorry, should i apologise for replying to your original post in exactly the way i should've replied to it? can you not see why it got the response it did?

now that you've actually elaborated, i can see that i actually agree with you - but come on, casting muffle a billion times to level muffle in skyrim isn't the same as grinding zombies in a cave is it? no.

as stated in my most recent post (which i was typing when you replied) i dont give a toss if people grind to hit endgame. what i give a toss about is endgame progression being driven by grinding into an endless loop of grind to win.

if you've done all the quests and want to grind to max level as the storyline bores you, then sure, go ahead, grind your way to VR14.

if you'd read any of my posts in other threads you'd see i'm almost militant in my stance that cadwells adding VR1-10 at launch was a massive mistake. it basically invited people to start grinding the moment they killed molag'bal or quit. thousands, if not millions quit. i have 3 empty guilds i'm part of, each with 100's of inactive members each. i saw it coming a mile off. apparently zenimax didn't and they're due to repeat themselves with console gamers within the next few weeks.

the endgame progression system of ESO is borked. sure grind past quest you've already done if you want - in fact, i'd actually support XP gains and thingts like WoW's heirloom system through the CP system, as long as combat gains through the CP system were completey removed.

edit: just wanted to add my apologies for getting a bit ranty, i'm in the process of writing a massive post regarding endgame in ESO and i keep finding multiple things that irk me, nothing more than grinders who feel time == reward in endgame progression. levelling != endgame.

Sacadon · July 2015

smokes wrote: »

emkv93b16_ESO wrote: »

I'm just saying that we should be able to play whatever style we want. If you want to do quests, fine. If you want to grind, fine.
I do not enjoy grinding. But I'd rather grind my alt to max-level than doing all the quests again, where 50% of the time you are running between questgivers.

that i can agree with you on - it's the endgame "grind to win" mentality that is the problem and a lot of the grind spots were nerfed because they are reflected as high end grind areas in the alternate factions veteran areas.

until grind to win is removed, grinding will not be recieved with optimism.

i'm not one to remove options for levelling - level however the hell you want. but as soon as grinding becomes the way to numerically outplay someone rather than through skill, then that is the day the game dies. (which has been pointed out a lot the last few days)

some people like deltia, recognise that and it hits him directly in the pocket as he earns a living off playing ESO - but there's others who purely want that option because they have the time to put in and have nothing better to do.

a large part of your complaint is the fact that getting to level cap takes forever - you have to play through the game 3 times to get VR14 if you do it via quests. which will take the average person 6 months to a year.

whereas it's been reported on the forums that grinding to VR14 can be done in a few days.

levelling through quests to VR1 can be done in a few days, but then, thats not the level cap, it's cadwells that puts the pressure on players to grind as the most lucrative way to level. generally anyone with an endgame focus in mind will take the path of least resistance to end level. which in eso's current state is grinding, which is slowly killing it.

honestly, i could debate this stuff for hours, i watched 9 years of WoW development very closely and picked up on all their issues before they became issues, i've done the same thing with ESO and i've pleaded on the forums for them to see sense.

it's bizarre. ESO is only just over a year old, yet it feels like it's been out for 5 years and had multiple expansions because of how far away the endgame is for a new player.

Absolutely agreed with the bolded above... the fundamental flaw especially with the CS is that zero skill is required to become very powerful, all one needs is time. Hard to appreciate max level when you know that getting there can be shortcut so easily.

Faulgor · July 2015

smokes wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

You apparently don't understand. I don't want to grind to get to "endgame", progression PvE is why I play the game at all. The way is the goal.
And nobody said "grinding" should be mandatory. I'm not telling people how to enjoy the game, you are. Which is exactly why tons of people left: Because they were forced through the questing tunnel of Cadwell's to reach max level. But I'm part of the problem because I'm advocating more variety in challenging, engaging und rewarding gameplay, right.

i'm sorry, should i apologise for replying to your original post in exactly the way i should've replied to it? can you not see why it got the response it did?

now that you've actually elaborated, i can see that i actually agree with you - but come on, casting muffle a billion times to level muffle in skyrim isn't the same as grinding zombies in a cave is it? no.

as stated in my most recent post (which i was typing when you replied) i dont give a toss if people grind to hit endgame. what i give a toss about is endgame progression being driven by grinding into an endless loop of grind to win.

if you've done all the quests and want to grind to max level as the storyline bores you, then sure, go ahead, grind your way to VR14.

if you'd read any of my posts in other threads you'd see i'm almost militant in my stance that cadwells adding VR1-10 at launch was a massive mistake. it basically invited people to start grinding the moment they killed molag'bal or quit. thousands, if not millions quit. i have 3 empty guilds i'm part of, each with 100's of inactive members each. i saw it coming a mile off. apparently zenimax didn't and they're due to repeat themselves with console gamers within the next few weeks.

the endgame progression system of ESO is borked. sure grind past quest you've already done if you want - in fact, i'd actually support XP gains and thingts like WoW's heirloom system through the CP system, as long as combat gains through the CP system were completey removed.

edit: just wanted to add my apologies for getting a bit ranty, i'm in the process of writing a massive post regarding endgame in ESO and i keep finding multiple things that irk me, nothing more than grinders who feel time == reward in endgame progression. levelling != endgame.

Yeah then I don't know what we are arguing about

Looking forward to your post. I have some saved up drafts as well, but it's somehow never the right time because there's always a hot topic that fills all the threads in the General Discussion forum.

Endurance · July 2015

emkv93b16_ESO wrote: »

Hi.
Over time, people have found some pretty good grind-spots, and Zenimax has been very efficient nerfing them.
Why they do it, is a bit unclear for me. Are we leveling too fast that way? You want us to go through the quests?
Either way, it sounds to me like you are deciding how we should play the game.
I think that is a bit unfair. It should be our choice to decide wether we want to do quests, interact with NPC's, look at the beautiful environment, or simply grind our way to max-level. If you already have a VR14 character, you don't want to go through the quests of all 3 factions again. Especially if you want to PVP, and want your alt to reach max-level as soon as possible.
Well you can still grind of course, but it's so slow it's not worth the effort.

Please buff grinding again, and if it's grinding CP's you're worried about, nerf CP XP, and buff VR XP.

Let us decide how we want to play the game.

Feel free to share your thoughts.

Cheers

Blame that tony guy

The Uninvited · July 2015

smokes wrote: »

fair play to you going through cadwells gold and silver, i've done it too. the point is, as pointed out by everybody in the "the day ESO dies" thread from deltia, is that grind to win is not a good design philosophy.

True, but in that thread they are talking about grinding for Champion Points. Not about grinding to VR14.

I have 2 VR14's which I have gotten there by questing and doing dungeons (these builds I use for PVE).

My VR9 Nightblade has only done the main quests of Cadwell silver and gold and that got me to VR7 (this build I use for PVP). I level the rest in PVP or by occasional grinding.

Why? Because I don't feel like doing every side quest for the third time, especially because I made that character for PVP. Why should I have to?

smokes · July 2015

The Uninvited wrote: »

smokes wrote: »

fair play to you going through cadwells gold and silver, i've done it too. the point is, as pointed out by everybody in the "the day ESO dies" thread from deltia, is that grind to win is not a good design philosophy.

True, but in that thread they are talking about grinding for Champion Points. Not about grinding to VR14.

you could easily argue that VR1-10 was a grind from the very beginning. in fact i often do argue that point.

here's some VR history for you which should hopefully explain why cadwells adding VR1-10 was utter BS.

me earlier wrote:

vet ranks were intended to be added with craglorn, not with cadwells silver and gold.

craglorn was supposed to be the first VR zone, with lower craglorn VR1-2 and upper craglorn VR3-4.

towards the end of the closed beta, the beta testers mentioned how cool it would be if everyone had the opportunity to do the other factions content as well, as it was all unique questing content and you could then do it all on one toon without the need to reroll alts.

zenimax were like, hey yea, thats actually a pretty cool idea, that'd extend the endgame out some too and probably buy us some more time to design other endgame content. so they added cadwells silver and gold to the game.

however, because of the way in which quest progression, loot and XP are linked together, they had to bake in veteran ranks to that content. which then meant that craglorn when later patched in, raised the VR ranks to 14, instead of VR4.

which then had unexpected consequences - mostly because i think zenimax underestimated the playerbase's ability to devour content, or rather grind/exploit past it. as there were people hitting VR10 during early access before official launch.

whereas i get the impression zenimax expected everyone to play by the rules and quest their way to max level over the course of a couple of months.

this then led to a massive disparity in power levels in cyrodiil and all kinds of craziness, all because the level cap which should've been level 50 on day 1 and then VR4 a couple months later when craglorn was patched in, was at VR10 and being exploited for illgotten gains - even though, through the games systems, it was all legal.

you'd literally have VR10's destroying people from level 10-upwards. there were no non-vet pvp campaigns at this point, it was all 90 day campaigns.

so yea, this was the start of the backlash regarding VR levels

then you had all the people experiencing the woefully one-sided pvp battles against the VR10's trying to level up fast so their factions weren't getting destroyed so quickly. all these people getting smacked about in cyrodiil had had enough and wanted to get to VR10 to be on an even keel with these grinders, so people burned through to level 50, hit VR1 and their progress ground to a halt as the realisation of the everest scale mountain of 2x the content they had already cleared came into view.

queue hordes of players saying "screw that" dropping sub and leaving the game.

honestly, it would've been better if at launch, zenimax had left out cadwells S+G until craglorn, then patched in a couple of VR zones as alternate levelling options.

but meh, we can't turn back time.

zenimax were trying to do good by the community, but it bit them on the ass, ever since, they've been trying to fix the issue.

i hope that explains VR ranks for you and why there is a dislike for them.

it's not the existence of VR or what they attribute to that is the problem, it's how they were implemented that was the problem. it was too much, too soon and it was taken full advantage of by those who would rather ignore quests and grind/exploit their way to the top so they could prey on noobies. in other words, people who would rather mmopvp than mmorpg.

i will also add right now, that i'd probably be on my third of 4th VR toon if the levelling process didn't involve cadwells and stopped after killing molag bal.

my girlfriend would also still be playing, as would likely most of the people from my WoW guild who moved over to ESO at launch, saw the VR grind, swore at it and found something else to play.

The Uninvited · July 2015

No need to explain, I played beta and know the history behind VR.

nothing2591 · July 2015

Indeed, buff craglorn magical anomalies and upper crag bosses that would bring back some life to that zone aswell its like a ghost town.

Faulgor · July 2015

nothing2591 wrote: »

Indeed, buff craglorn magical anomalies and upper crag bosses that would bring back some life to that zone aswell its like a ghost town.

I haven't done the math yet, but will the 20% buff to Craglorn exp make a difference?
I already know the 100% buff to public dungeons won't, but no reason to lose hope for Craglorn ...

F7sus4 · July 2015

nothing2591 wrote: »

I haven't done the math yet, but will the 20% buff to Craglorn exp make a difference?

+20% is already an answer by itself. Also, keep in mind that -50% XP nerf made people drop grinding in Skyreach locations in Craglorn. That should be enough for you to decide. Cheers!

The Uninvited · July 2015

1000 XP - 50% (Craglorn grind nerf) = 500 XP + 20% = 600 XP

Won't make much of a difference.

F7sus4 · July 2015

The Uninvited wrote: »

Won't make much of a difference.

The formula and the way you apply the +20% buff is a bit more complicated. In the end it would be 900 XP, instead of 600 XP. Considering we had 1000 XP in the first place, it's really not that bad.

Spellscar - here we come!

biovitalb16_ESO · July 2015

No fun allowed!!! You must do the same boring kill quests over and over and over and over and over to level all your characters!

Arreyanne · July 2015

smokes wrote: »

emkv93b16_ESO wrote: »

well, neither skyrim, oblibion or morrowind is a MMO game.
And why are you so offensive man? I just pointed out something in my point of view.
And for the record. I already have a VR14 character, which I have done ALL the quests for ALL the factions, so I have allready been through all that quest content, voice-overs, hundreds of pages of lore you speak about.
All that is done, and it was a lot of hours. I don't want to go through all that again on my alt, just to reach end-game so I can PvP.

and neither is ESO a single player game...

if you're offended by my stance, i do apologise, but grinding really is not the way an RPG should be played, be that single player RPG or MMORPG.

fair play to you going through cadwells gold and silver, i've done it too. the point is, as pointed out by everybody in the "the day ESO dies" thread from deltia, is that grind to win is not a good design philosophy.

there's also a lot of people coming in and trying to legitimise grinding as a playstyle when it's an abhorrent abuse of ingame systems for personal advantage over other players purely through time spent playing.

I really donot know of an MMO anywhere that one can receive end game items from grinding mobs. If you are aware of one please let us know

it's bad and anyone that supports that structure of endgame progression should feel bad.

edit: autocorrect

Why is it bad that I would wish to maximize my playtime. Perhaps I think the story is boring, perhaps I just don't want to do quest. ESO is the slowest leveling MMO Ive played since Vanilla WoW. Most MMO's, in todays market, just by following the quest one can get from 0-20 in around 2-3 hours. ESO you better plan in at least 6 maybe 8. That might be fun for you to run from A to B back to A to C back to A to D back to A for a series of quest it gets monotonous for some of us

Psychobunni · July 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

Many grinders happily churning away are frequently annoyed by questers that show up and think they own the place. So exactly the inverse of what you described. So ZOS should embrace their player bases diversity and give grinders and quester areas that don't put us at odds. Both can happily play the same game if setup properly.

That would be balanced and simply make too much sense. Response thus far is to tip the scale too far in one direction and call it balanced until they decide to tip it opposite direction. (imo)

mrskinskull · July 2015

RobDaCool wrote: »

I used the grind to level up my 2nd character, and will grind my 3rd also, because I learned the main story isn't there to level you up, its there to bore you lol

Grinding does tend to ruin nearby players fun.

The Uninvited · July 2015

Breaking News!

ZOS_GinaBruno
admin
The XP you receive from quests in Craglorn will actually be closer to an 80% increase since it's multiplicative (1.5 [from Veteran quests] * 1.2 [Craglorn] = 1.8, or an 80% increase).

So that would be 1000 XP - 50% (Craglorn grind nerf) = 500 XP + 80% = 900 XP

Only for the quests, but hey...

Edit: I can't do math...

Enodoc · July 2015

The Uninvited wrote: »

Breaking News!

ZOS_GinaBruno
admin
The XP you receive from quests in Craglorn will actually be closer to an 80% increase since it's multiplicative (1.5 [from Veteran quests] * 1.2 [Craglorn] = 1.8, or an 80% increase).

So that would be 1000 XP - 50% (Craglorn grind nerf) = 500 XP + 80% = 800 XP

Only for the quests, but hey...

500 XP + 80% = 900 XP

The Uninvited · July 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

500 XP + 80% = 900 XP

Sorry, was too quick with my reaction. Thanks for pointing it out

Bromburak · July 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

As far as I am aware, they are only nerfing grind spots where the mob respawn rate is too high, that being where it is higher than it is in other places with comparable content.

No they didn't nerf them, you can still make 3 Vet levels in 10-12 hours without enlightment.
As well some alliances have an advantage because the massive XP instant spawn spots are alliance dependent ...

ZOS knows all that but they also see the statistics, I only can speak for my self when ever I go to the hot spots, there are max. 3-4 people sharing the whole area with me, so its not even crowded.

This explains why nerfing the spawns have less priority from ZOS perspective.
Sure, we can go nuts there and grind our brains out but at the end of the day most players are bored of this.
Perhaps only 2-3 % play hardcore and its very exhausting to play there for hours anyway.

VoidBlue · July 2015

ive seen some grinding on my adventures. once in a dwemer dungeon. two guys kept waiting for a room full of dwemer spiders to respawn and than would aggro them all into the center and aoe them down. i just figured they were hunting dwemer frames, but now... idk lol

second was just yesterday was 5 guys on horses aggroing all these bloodfeinds and aoeing them down. what i was really surprised was they mobs were taking damage, catching fire, and i swear i saw a steel tornado skill come out of one guy while on horseback :O . i just thought it looked silly 5 guys just circling killing the same mobs over and over and i laughed and moved onto my next quest.

Lunerdog · July 2015

Having just completed Cadwells Gold for the FOURTH time, I guess you could say I'm all quested out, untill theres new quest content I'd rather stab my wanger with a barbed fork than repeat anymore quests.

The thing I'll say about the very heavy handed nerfing to Craglorn xp is this, all the grinders were in Craglorn, out of the way, ie not bothering anyone who was questing through Cadwells, but now the grinders are spread all over the game.

Some of the Cadwells quests I've just completed were a walk through because the guys and girls were killing everying sight and I hardly had to lift a finger.

It didn't bother me because if they're as fed up with questing as I am then I sympathise with them 101%

Lots of new content and alternate levelling paths are desperately needed in this game.

Bromburak · July 2015

Well yes, while antlers, trolls and zombies drop a lot of crap in your inventory the dwemer drop partials for the frames. This kind of grinding is not just Vet XP or CPs the rate of Gold is great income for casuals. One reason why bots are camping ruins.

The Uninvited · July 2015

Lunerdog wrote: »

Having just completed Cadwells Gold for the FOURTH time, I guess you could say I'm all quested out, untill theres new quest content I'd rather stab my wanger with a barbed fork than repeat anymore quests.

The thing I'll say about the very heavy handed nerfing to Craglorn xp is this, all the grinders were in Craglorn, out of the way, ie not bothering anyone who was questing through Cadwells, but now the grinders are spread all over the game.

Some of the Cadwells quests I've just completed were a walk through because the guys and girls were killing everying sight and I hardly had to lift a finger.

It didn't bother me because if they're as fed up with questing as I am then I sympathise with them 101%

Lots of new content and alternate levelling paths are desperately needed in this game.

THIS.