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Why NB's actually make the WORST stamina builds in PvP
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KittenPowerzSoul ShrivenI haven't reached end game yet on NB, but one thing I have noticed bewtween my mid level templar compared to my low mid level NB is that my NB can outlast so much better than my templar ever could. Now I haven't hit end game with either yet. But so far I've noticed spam cloak is the way to go.Edited by KittenPowerz on July 6, 2015 4:02PM0 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My nightblade has been a beast since I unlocked bone armor from the undaunted line. Can't wait to add vigor to the mix.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
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Swallow Soul as a stamina build is terrible. Clearly, you haven't ever tried this.
Blood Craze is not class-based.
A set bonus is also not class-based.
You should probably stop just spouting stuff off the top of your head and actually look at the words that you quoted.
/shrug0 -
reften✭✭✭✭✭That's what healers are for. Plus, drop a veil down on the ground, and hold block. You'll live plenty long.
Really though, Templars with DW will out DPS a NB anyday in group play, which is sad,Reften
Bosmer (Wood Elf)
Moonlight Crew (RIP), Misfitz (RIP), Victorem Guild
VR16 NB, Stam build, Max all crafts.
Azuras & Trueflame. Mostly PvP, No alts.
Semi-retired till the lag is fixed.
Love the Packers, Bourbon, and ESO...one of those will eventually kill me.0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Blood Craze is not class-based.
A set bonus is also not class-based.
You should probably stop just spouting stuff off the top of your head and actually look at the words that you quoted.
And you should probably read the original post again. The OP was complaining about the general lack of survivability of NBs, not just the lack of class based heals.
My stamina based NB has absolutely no problem surviving in Cyrodiil using the skills and set bonuses i have listed.
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WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I know this thread's old but someone's brought it up.
You're doing Nightblade wrong.
Why do you need a damage shield when you have Cloak?
Also, someone posted one of @JackDaniell 's Templar videos. Have you seen his NB video? He doesn't play it much because it's not a challenge enough for him. In other words, OP.PC EU1 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't disagree with the op cos I've never played a NB, let alone a stam NB. But don't stam NBs just pick up rally and vigor for the heal, and dodge-roll into cloak to compensate for not having a shield? Seen some stam NBs kite zergs around for days. If it makes you feel any better sorcs don't have a class-based heal either, unless you count blood magic and surge, which are not reliable or substantial. Sorcs have shields (only one class-based) but stam NBs get to wear full medium armour which mitigates more damage than full light.
Classes have to make sacrifices; stam DKs and templars have no mobility and tend to pick up vampirism just for mist form.
Again; not disagreeing, just being devil's advocate.PC | EU1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭
"if used correctly", huh. So that it can heal you for less than half per tick that Rally would? It's not anything about "using it correctly", it's the simple fact that it's an extremely lackluster heal on a stamblade. That is simply the way the game's mechanics work when it comes to the necessary stats to build a proper stamblade.
And yes, I have tried it. More than once. It's a wasted slot, unless you're just using it for passive bonuses.
And even in that case, it's still probably a wasted slot on a stamblade.Blood Craze is not class-based.
A set bonus is also not class-based.
You should probably stop just spouting stuff off the top of your head and actually look at the words that you quoted.
And you should probably read the original post again. The OP was complaining about the general lack of survivability of NBs, not just the lack of class based heals.
My stamina based NB has absolutely no problem surviving in Cyrodiil using the skills and set bonuses i have listed.
Actually, the OP is directly talking about the lack of class-based heals and shields, not the general lack of survivability of NBs.
That is why he talks about how magickablades rely on resto staff / S&B and stamblades rely on Rally and speaks specifically about NB class-based defensive abilities, such as Blur.
This thread isn't about how your NB is doing w/ its skills in Cyrodiil, it's about NB's lack of defensive abilities as compared to other classes.
Also, this is a 7-month old thread that was resurrected. It's from before 1.6 and stamina builds were reworked, when magicka builds were hands-down the only viable non-gank build in Cyrodiil and NBs were w/out a doubt the squishiest class in the game.
It's from before Vigor even existed. It's from before perma dodge-rolling, drinks being viable, etc. It's not even worth talking about this stuff anymore, because the thread isn't relevant.
I know, because I was the third person to post in this thread... in January. And here you come 7 months later, Johnny Come Lately, acting like you have any idea what any of this was originally about.
You clearly do not.0 -
Pirhana7_ESO✭✭✭✭✭...they have no access to a class based shield or heal. They share the same damage potential as any other stamina build, but without the survivability options.
Stamina nightblades are by far the squishiest build possible. Self heals and shields are incredibly important for survivability and allow other classes to create stamina builds with high survivability due to a magicka bar dedicated solely to heals and shields while relying on stamina and weapon skills for damage. Nightblades do not have this option. A nightblade's only class defensive skills are cloak and blur. Blur is very underwhelming and cloak is well known to be buggy if not outright broken. Even if cloak worked 100% of the time it does not compare to shields that allow the player to soak damage while continuing to fight. The skills are apples and oranges and cloak is not a suitable replacement for the lack of a class shield or heal.
Almost all competitive magicka NB builds rely on resto staff for their shield and heals. Some also use harness magicka as well. Unfortunately, resto staff doesn't really work with stamina builds (especially with 1.6 changes), and harness magicka is relatively small (500) for a high cost, and benefits per piece of light armor worn. Again, doesn't really work with stamina builds.
A stamina nightblades only reliable heal is from 2H rally. The skill is great, but a small HoT and heal alone is not enough to survive or outlast incoming damage the same way other classes can with class skills.
I've seen some really effective templar stamina builds that heavily rely on blazing shield and breath of life. The same goes for DK's with frag shield, wings, and GDB. A stamina Sorc has access to hardened ward. The common link here is class based defensive skills that draw from the magicka pool.
Nightblade stamina builds can kill people sure, but they fold like wet newspaper under any pressure at all. No other stamina build is as squishy. As a nightblade player I'm not content to plink at the edges of a fight with a bow or run away every time i get focused. Other classes can play stam builds and stand up to a fight, even against the current magicka shield/block/heal meta. Nightblades can't.
TLDR: Heals and shields are extremely strong and allow other classes stam builds to tank damage with their magicka pool. Nightblades are forced to use resto staff and/or harness magicka for their shields/heals. Stamina nightblades can't use either of these skills effectively, making them the squishiest build of any class and the only build without access to an effective shield of any kind.
Please, make blur into a shield or just add a decent shield to a guild or undaunted skill line that isn't dependent on wearing light armor for effectiveness. I love playing stamina, but for nightblades resto staff and magicka builds are necessary to compete in a shield/block/heal meta world if you want to actually stand up to a fight.
P.S. - Sniping on the edge of a fight and ganking off horses is cool and all, but not what I would consider competitive PvP. Any other class with a stamina build can do the same, but with the added survivability to actually engage in toe-to-toe fight.
I think the OP wants the NB to be something that he is not. The NB is meant to be more of a quick damage hit and run class. And they are very good at it. Stamina NBs can kill one target very fast and disapear. I agree they dont have teh combat survival tools that other classes have but they shouldnt, they are designed to DPS and kill fast, not stick around to tank or exchange blows.
After reading everything you want it sounds like you just flat out want NBS to be DKs.
As for Blur, its is strong, its 20% evade, 1 out of 5 attacks misses you or you could just look at like on average you will avoid 20% damage in a fight. Blur has saved me countless times. yes the 2hand heal skill is underwhelming BUT when combined with Blur it is actually a very decent defense, especially when you are using vanish as well.0 -
blabafat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lol...Fire Cloak - VR12 DK - Nord - EP
Ámeer - VR15 Templar - Imperial - AD
The Mágician - VR16 Templar - Imperial DC
Magíc - VR16 DK - Dark Elf - DC
Àmeer - VR16 Templar - High Elf - DC
ámeer - VR16 Templar - High Elf - AD
Æ ámeer - VR16 Templar - High Elf - EP
Ameer Flow - Level 34 Nightblade - High Elf - EP
Youtube:
https://youtube.com/channel/UCFNmXCgmTVo-T-p1BIVLxbQ1 -
My stamina Nightblade does fine I can self heal with Rally every 4 seconds it full restores my health bar and every out of 4 second cast it heals a good portion of it but even then you also have fear abilities that keep them from attacking you, you have soul tether and a few other abilities for pvp it is still a viable class more so on Path 17 so you should probably look into the skill trees and morphs before saying anything about it lolNA Ps4/Daggerfall Covenant PvP/PvE
LF: End game dungeon guild0 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Some of the best PvP NBs Ive ran into ran Stamina Builds.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax0 -
Preyfar✭✭✭✭✭
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Any nightblade playing PVP with a build reliant on crit is not going to have a great time. A Nightblade should have a great mix of sustainability and damage, but but aware of his escape methods and ways to survive. Pop a speed potion and cloak to get out of the fight and stay alive. Be a vamp, mist away. There's various ways to survive.Agree. Stamina based NB in PvP is pretty squishy and has less survivability.
I'm a stam nightblade, and tend to be in the top 5. I've no trouble surviving in PVP (even despite the lack of self heal). Potions, skills like Rally and Purge, all can go well to help players make it when they're having a rough time.
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bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭at E3 the end of the ESO segment was the dark brotherhood hand symbol. it would be nice for that to be released we a sheild or self heal or something like that for stealthy players in the skill tree. i didnt read all the comments but im sure someone mentioned the reduction in alliance rank of vigor which should help out. i dont run 2h so i have no self heal. vigor and the change in hidden blade will be a great combo.0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
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Any nightblade playing PVP with a build reliant on crit is not going to have a great time. A Nightblade should have a great mix of sustainability and damage, but but aware of his escape methods and ways to survive. Pop a speed potion and cloak to get out of the fight and stay alive. Be a vamp, mist away. There's various ways to survive.Agree. Stamina based NB in PvP is pretty squishy and has less survivability.
I'm a stam nightblade, and tend to be in the top 5. I've no trouble surviving in PVP (even despite the lack of self heal). Potions, skills like Rally and Purge, all can go well to help players make it when they're having a rough time.
Again, this thread has nothing to do w/ NBs today.
NBs were a completely different beast back in 1.5 when stam sustain was laughable at best and the only viable stamina builds were based around stealth ganking w/ a bow.
How do people not understand that the game the OP is referring to was entirely different back then? : /
Edited by Varicite on July 6, 2015 10:35PM0 -
R0M2K✭✭✭✭2.1=Sorcs OP, Dead Stamina NB
1- 50% shields but 50% & 50% all dmg nerf.
This means that the ttk will be higher while sorcs keep the same efective ratio on their shields, longer time to regenerate magica & recast shields when necesary. NB burst dead, a suposed key feature of the class.
2- Nirhoned nerf.
This means that sorcs will continue to have high spell res due to their light armor tree pasives, heavy armor will continue to have high spell&phys resistance and the most affected will be medium armor users due to no pasive in the medium armor tree that increases spell and/or phys res, mediocre resistance to both spells & phys attacks = paper to both sorcs and phys attacks and 0 burst to compensate because point 1.
3- Dodge roll nerf.
Instead of nerfing the gear that makes posible for a few players to perma-dodge, the only thing they can do is annoy btw, you nerf the key feature of medium armor.
Dodging allows you to move how far? 5 meters? How far does Bolt scape allow sorcs to move?
Dodge roll is a skill? NO. Bolt scape IS.
Dodge roll stuns or damage oponent? Bolt scape does.
Is perma-roll avaliable to all classes? Yes. And bolt scape? No.
So you are nerfing a mechanic extremely tied to a type of armor, sorcs have shields, stamina NB had dodge, but you are comparing a mitigation mechanic with a all-in-one skill that is Bolt scape.
4- Shield stacking.
So Sorcs can stack Shields but can NB stack Dodge chane? NO, Evasion (Medium armor) does not stack with Blur (NB) nor with Specter set (8-trait crafted set)... Shield stacking is ok but dodge stacking not.
5- Shealth medium armor bonus? Detect potion / Mage light.
6- Regenerate magica while runing / moving shealthed ? No problem.
Regenerate Stamina while runing / moving shealthed AND NOW blocking? No Way.
And on and on and on... just because a bunch of QQ noob sorcs get owned like they should, instead of watching some mainstream youtube tutorials or simply LTP... just like making Vigor rank 5, removing any pride left in earning you ranks.
Know you gona destroy Medium armor in PvP if you push live those changes, and ill cancel my sub, not that it may matter to you ZoS to have 1 less subscriber, but hey, ill feel much better not suporting the joke medium armor NB is gonna be.
The game was pretty balanced, 2.1 is gonna be a total mess... Oh and the "dont worry cos we adding shield penetration gear" its crap, totally crap to have to gear against shields and a terribaaad solution, more of a "patch" than a real balance.
Haha lol, you can even find "things" complaining about NB cloack being fixed AFTER amost 2 years to work as it should.... Wtf??!!! how many times can a Stamina NB cloack before runing out of magica???!!!.
Here, for you fanboys, enjoy your game:
Edited by R0M2K on July 7, 2015 12:32AM0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭srry NB will still hit hard. and have their burst damage. just instead of one or two shot ppl but two or three. the burst damage is still going to be great and amoung the best in game. lets not forget the grim focus buff. also, there is no reason to doge roll more than 3 times in a row in a battle unless you are just annoying them. now it will be used sparingly and at the proper times instead of just because you can. it requires more of an active approach in combat. also, nirn is not getting nerf but FIXED. there is a difference.
in any event stam nb will be just fine. hell i was rocking a stam nb in pvp back when stam builds were not the go to and never had a problem with my build or fighting people. still can reduce cost of dodge roll with medium armor.not everyone is running around spamming detect pots or wasting a skill spot on magelight. there should be counters to builds anyway. this patch if anything brings stam NB back down to earth a little bit.0 -
Faugaun✭✭✭✭✭
I've seen some really effective templar stamina builds that heavily rely on blazing shield and breath of life. The same goes for DK's with frag shield, wings, and GDB. A stamina Sorc has access to hardened ward. The common link here is class based defensive skills that draw from the magicka pool.
Technically a Sorc also has the largest self heal in the game (better than GDB)....of course the heal doesn't stealth properly making it impossible to use in groups and for sneaky tactics in PvP....My new startup social network for Theorycrafting
Champion Point Calculators
Sharable samples:
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http://asolutionaday.com/test/Thief.htm?a=5&b=22&d=2&e=18&h=8&ma=0&mo=5&sh=9&sp=19&te=12&tu=13&w=1
http://asolutionaday.com/test/Mage.htm?bla=5&ble=1&bo=6&ele=2&elf=3&h=7&m=9&pi=10&pr=20&sp=4&st=8&t=400 -
OzJohnD✭✭✭✭
Edited by OzJohnD on July 7, 2015 12:54AMEveryone knows the phenomenon of trying to hold your breath underwater - how at first it's alright and you can handle it, and then as it gets closer and closer to the time when you must breathe, how urgent the need becomes, the lust and the hunger to breathe. And then the panic sets in when you begin to think that you won't be able to breathe - and finally, when you take in air and the anxiety subsides...that's what it's like to be a vampire and need blood.
Francis Ford Coppola - BS Dracula: The Film and the Legend0 -
Violynne✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've yet to play PvP (servers always filled), but I have a question. NB has Refreshing Path. Does this not do any good for healing?
I'm asking because it's an option open to me now, but I'm not sure if I want to spend the skill point on it, or the other unlock.
RP also heals allies, which I figured might be a good thing in PvP?0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've yet to play PvP (servers always filled), but I have a question. NB has Refreshing Path. Does this not do any good for healing?
I'm asking because it's an option open to me now, but I'm not sure if I want to spend the skill point on it, or the other unlock.
RP also heals allies, which I figured might be a good thing in PvP?
it is alright and has some merit. cloak combined with this makes a good quick escape. however, better speed boost option availible imo. but is a good ability if you play full heals on your nb.0 -
Endurance✭✭✭...they have no access to a class based shield or heal. They share the same damage potential as any other stamina build, but without the survivability options.
Stamina nightblades are by far the squishiest build possible. Self heals and shields are incredibly important for survivability and allow other classes to create stamina builds with high survivability due to a magicka bar dedicated solely to heals and shields while relying on stamina and weapon skills for damage. Nightblades do not have this option. A nightblade's only class defensive skills are cloak and blur. Blur is very underwhelming and cloak is well known to be buggy if not outright broken. Even if cloak worked 100% of the time it does not compare to shields that allow the player to soak damage while continuing to fight. The skills are apples and oranges and cloak is not a suitable replacement for the lack of a class shield or heal.
Almost all competitive magicka NB builds rely on resto staff for their shield and heals. Some also use harness magicka as well. Unfortunately, resto staff doesn't really work with stamina builds (especially with 1.6 changes), and harness magicka is relatively small (500) for a high cost, and benefits per piece of light armor worn. Again, doesn't really work with stamina builds.
A stamina nightblades only reliable heal is from 2H rally. The skill is great, but a small HoT and heal alone is not enough to survive or outlast incoming damage the same way other classes can with class skills.
I've seen some really effective templar stamina builds that heavily rely on blazing shield and breath of life. The same goes for DK's with frag shield, wings, and GDB. A stamina Sorc has access to hardened ward. The common link here is class based defensive skills that draw from the magicka pool.
Nightblade stamina builds can kill people sure, but they fold like wet newspaper under any pressure at all. No other stamina build is as squishy. As a nightblade player I'm not content to plink at the edges of a fight with a bow or run away every time i get focused. Other classes can play stam builds and stand up to a fight, even against the current magicka shield/block/heal meta. Nightblades can't.
TLDR: Heals and shields are extremely strong and allow other classes stam builds to tank damage with their magicka pool. Nightblades are forced to use resto staff and/or harness magicka for their shields/heals. Stamina nightblades can't use either of these skills effectively, making them the squishiest build of any class and the only build without access to an effective shield of any kind.
Please, make blur into a shield or just add a decent shield to a guild or undaunted skill line that isn't dependent on wearing light armor for effectiveness. I love playing stamina, but for nightblades resto staff and magicka builds are necessary to compete in a shield/block/heal meta world if you want to actually stand up to a fight.
P.S. - Sniping on the edge of a fight and ganking off horses is cool and all, but not what I would consider competitive PvP. Any other class with a stamina build can do the same, but with the added survivability to actually engage in toe-to-toe fight.
they used to be good.. but evasion was constantly ninja nerfedI'm outta here0 -
silky_soft✭✭✭✭✭
✭OP Sounds like you are just a unskilled player and shouldn't run stam as nb. Go back to sorc with shield spam or play easy mode perma block. Playing as stam nb we know the risks, we understand them and compensate. It's not a build where you expect to survive 100% like when the reds bug out mist form or high ranks spams stacks of vigor. With then next update those cheese builds that perma block, shield stack, dodge for days, bolt or ones that rely on enough stam for that 1 break out and double dodge roll will be no more. The fixing of the broken cloak mechanic will place even a bad like yourself at a huge advantage. Roll a vamp instead of ww if you still need to make it even easier for yourself.This recent update has made me sad. Sad for the game. Sad for the community. Sad to pay whatever it is now. I want the previous eso back.0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭Imo nb is yhe hardest class to play and rely more on skill than other classes. It requires more anticipation and reaction along with precision and timing. This is true because of the lack of defense. Without being maticulous in your approach to a fight and awareness of your surroundings you could very well find yourself swimming with the slater fish quickly. There is no o crap button just skill and awarness. Not saying other classes do not require the above that would be silly. Imo NB just demand more of the above0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭silky_soft wrote: »OP Sounds like you are just a unskilled player and shouldn't run stam as nb. Go back to sorc with shield spam or play easy mode perma block. Playing as stam nb we know the risks, we understand them and compensate. It's not a build where you expect to survive 100% like when the reds bug out mist form or high ranks spams stacks of vigor. With then next update those cheese builds that perma block, shield stack, dodge for days, bolt or ones that rely on enough stam for that 1 break out and double dodge roll will be no more. The fixing of the broken cloak mechanic will place even a bad like yourself at a huge advantage. Roll a vamp instead of ww if you still need to make it even easier for yourself.
Again, this post is from 1.5.
Vigor did not even exist. People had 3k health pools.
You guys... *just shakes head*
@ZOS_MariaAliprando @ZOS_JasonLeavey or somebody should probably just go ahead and lock this thread entirely, as it's not doing anything but serving to misinform and confuse the community as to its intent.
The game back then was an entirely different game than the community is playing now, and the majority of those posting in the thread recently have no idea what ESO was like when the OP posted this.
Edited by Varicite on July 7, 2015 2:08AM1
