You and your 'friends' have dull conversation's.

My thought is that game mods and addons are hobbies, not jobs. The last thing I want is to start a new gaming related job.

My personal opinion is that everything should be open and visible to everyone. I won't run a mod or addon that I cannot get into and see what they are doing. No encryption, no obfuscation, nothing hidden. That is the only way to keep things honest.

OF course it is all about money.
And I think the OP makes a fair point, it seems weird that addon authors get so much less recognition and revenue than streamers/youtubers.

A reason i could see for that is that streaming especially and youtubers to a certain degree are much more personal. Often you see a face and hear a voice be it explaining a certain mechanic to you or just chatting with the viewers.
Addon authors on the other hand have almost no "personal" contact with their audience. Most addon users simply press download without reading even the whole description (who ever reads the "credits" part ? ).
Additionally donationg to a streamer more often than not gets you a direct individual response from the respective streamer with a popup and whatnot wich encourages support even more, an option that is not available to addon authors.

Another point might be that streams and videos provide direct entertainment. you actively watch THAT very piece of content to keep you entertained. Mods however are a rather subtle form of entertainment often enchancing the experience the user gets but not being something they dedicate a very specific amount of time to. Instead the just let it run on the side of their usual experience and grow acustomed to it without paying it much mind ( this is somewhat different for quest mods like in skyrim/oblivion, etc but still holds true to a certain extent).

I agree it is unfair and i believe its rooted in the way the service is provided to the user and how he percieves it, but i dont really see a way to change that right now, maybe a plugin in the mod would help, but that would rather annoy most people and lead to a ravaging mob crying "SELLOUT" than provide any sort of income.

tldr: live is unfair =/

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

man you post a lot...... majority complaint threads lol if someone buys you that silly ice mount would you stop?

Not trying to sound like an A hole, just asking a serious question Seems (to me) like it is all about money.......

demendred wrote: »

You and your 'friends' have dull conversation's.

Deltia posts a thread with a negative view of a ZOS system and gets nothing but praise, being a streamer. Addon author posts an observation of the disparity, gets hated on and trolled. Thank you for proving my point about the warped psychology of some gamers.

Only children use the term 'troll'. I'm an a-hole, get it right cupcake.

And I am nice, just not to most people on here.

I understand the OP's POV about addon authors not getting support. I do agree donations could help authors. But when money is involved greed will always come, I hope that such a thing will not escalate into the whole "paying for mods" fiasco that Valve/Bethesda started earlier this year. And based on the reaction of the internet, it's safe to say the idea of paying for unofficial, user-made content is not very popular.

As for streamers getting more money, I guess the monetisation on YT and general popularity of "let's players" gave people the idea that it is "acceptable" for video makers/streamers to ask for money for their content. I dunno. For your idea to kick off I suppose Bethesda or ZOS would have to take the first step and make it "ok". Maybe then will there be some change.

Tolmos wrote: »

The odd truth of making money in an amateur fashion in entertainment is that it makes NO SENSE.

Addons makers can spend hundreds or even thousands of hours coding and working to build an amazing add-on, and at best get a few "good job!" comments on their add-on page, followed by thousands of feature requests and angry bug reports. Ask folks to donate money to said add-on maker, and those folks would scoff. But tell them the add-on maker quit supporting the add-on, and their name is mud.

On the other hand, people can play a video game and just record themselves doing it; they will make thousands of dollars.

You see the same thing with mobile game apps. Devs can pour thousands of hours into really intricate and amazing applications, barely see any profit... and then "Yo" app comes along and the guy is set for retirement.

Making add-ons is a generally thankless job. That's just how it is.

Yeah, works kind of like life. What exactly made Kim kardashian rich and famous? You don't know? Neither do I. That's the point. lol People seem to be willing to pay well for entertainment, but not something of "utility".

Psychobunni wrote: »

Okay, I agree with the OP that addon creators deserve more recognition, especially the ones with massive downloads showing just how game breaking missing elements are for some.

However, I have also seen the OP's complaints about this before (no, I'm not stalking to go find them) and if any criticism or opposite debate is to be taken as "being hated on" well Alien, you are going to stay in a world of hurt that is primarily self imposed.

All I can say is that if you (Alien) feel that you should be monetarily compensated for your contributions to addons, so much as for you to keep at it....and aren't going to receive it. Stop making addons. Don't say "compensation doesn't matter, I do this for fun" in one thread and then make threads like this....and then complain about criticism...

You can't have your cake and eat it too (unless you are rich)

Doing something without the goal of monetary compensation means you will continue doing it even if you know no money is coming in. Seems to be what the OP is doing, if I understand correctly. But that willingness doesn't make them immune to the butthurt of seeing someone make lots of cash for something that requires a fraction of the time and is far more enjoyable.

Can they swap over and start streaming? Sure, but then the ESO community loses its addons (which some of these very streamers may use) and everyone loses; most add-on makers aren't willing to do that to others.

Soooooo... they complain. Cause it's all they can do. Too good to leave the community high and dry, but not so selfless as to be able to ignore the unfortunate circumstance of it all.

Yes AlienDiplomat, it is an odd cultural thing. Just like in the U.S you may tip the waiter of your lunch a few dollars in appreciation and they would be happy, but in other countries they may find it rude or strange.

Gidorick wrote: »

I'm curious if there is the possibility of building ads into a mod. Maybe a popup or a little window in the corner. Make it closeable with a prompt explaining that keeping it open will help provide you with revenue. Maybe even provide a version without ads for 'ethical' reasons.

No, add-ons don't have any (direct) means of communication with the out-of-game world.

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

There is no such thing as a "malicious" addon. That is a paranoid myth created by the ill-informed. Addons can only do things that are exposed to the API. It isn't possible to code them to do anything ZOS doesn't let them do.

It has already happened. The malicious add-on was quickly withdrawn, and thanks to the code being transparent, the flawed API was identified and eventually patched by ZOS. Had it been obfuscated, who knows for how long it would spread?

People don't really PAY streamers though. I mean, a few will spend the fiver to subscribe or something but the vast majority don't. The streamers/youtubers make ad revenue. They also do what they do day in day out like some other thing people do for money where they get paid indirectly by an employer that benefits from their labor... What do you call those? Jobs? Something like that.

Addon developers may work quite awhile towards their addon but they often can complete it in their spare time and within only a few days. Not to say they all do this, many people put a lot more time into it but then there stands the point that the addon maker can drop support at any time, for no reason, and the following game update could break that addon rendering it utterly worthless.

Sure glad I ponied up the dough for this addon... that stopped working 8 updates ago and yet is still there to be bought and paid for!...

If you, as an addon maker, want to complain about your lack of funds for what you do: go after the sites you host your addons on.

The majority of streamers are getting paid by twitch, not the viewers.

The majority of video makers are getting paid by youtube, not the viewers.

So why compare addon makers to video entertainers and demand the end-user pay more? Go after the hosts that are ACTUALLY benefiting for free from your work.

Though, I highly doubt they'll be interested in paying you, most sites like NexusMods barely stay afloat on their ad revenue and premium subs because they are serving up dramatically huge amounts of data without continual add revenue throughout the download. So while like a video site they may be handing the average user 500+ megs of bandwidth over their visit, they're only seeing 6 or 8 banner ads worth of clicks ASSUMING the user doesn't have an adblocker. Meanwhile, a youtuber may deal with adblockers as well but those who aren't blocking or at least whtielisted them are getting hit with several video ads, which payout significantly more effectively.

Anyway, point is they're not comparable situations. It sucks that addon makers aren't able to do it fulltime but they also don't have the marketspace for fulltime employment doing it like streamers do.

That said, there are people who make addons who do so fulltime as a job: they're called game developers.

Tolmos wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

It has already happened. The malicious add-on was quickly withdrawn, and thanks to the code being transparent, the flawed API was identified and eventually patched by ZOS. Had it been obfuscated, who knows for how long it would spread?

Which addon was this? I've never heard of it.

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/13568/article/skyrim-nexus-reportedly-compromised-by-malware-hack/

Tolmos wrote: »

Which addon was this? I've never heard of it.

I don't remember the name. Its original author had quit, and the guy who took it over made it send all your gold to himself.

Rosveen wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I'm curious if there is the possibility of building ads into a mod. Maybe a popup or a little window in the corner. Make it closeable with a prompt explaining that keeping it open will help provide you with revenue. Maybe even provide a version without ads for 'ethical' reasons.

That's a sure-fire way to discourage people from using your addons at all. Player psychology 101.

Yea. I agree with you there.... just wondering if its technically feasible.