Blockcasting nerfed - Any good reason to still deny a stamina morph of Lava Whip?

Yuke · July 2015

So, is there a reason?

It would have been too strong on a DK with 1.6. but i think without being able to block for a long time in 1.7., its finally reasonable to give the DK the Molten Whip morph as a stamina version.

Feel free to discuss

Master_Kas · July 2015

Im all for it. Don't know why ZOS ignores it tough

Domander · July 2015

DK has 2 great stamina damage morphs already

themdogesbite · July 2015

Domander wrote: »

DK has 2 great stamina damage morphs already

No they dont, unstable flame is the only good one.

JDar · July 2015

I don't understand what one has to do with the other.

Joy_Division · July 2015

This question was asked in the episode.

The answer was twofold. Partly because they (i.e. not people in this thread) believe that stamina already had two good spells and mostly because they believed the two magicka morphs for flame whip made for compelling options that they did not want remove and thus for players to have

trimsic_ESO · July 2015

Blockcasting is only useful to the magicka builds. It is an overpowered game mechanics allowing people to mitigate a lot of damage while dealing a lot of damage, with a good usage of both the stamina and the magicka pool.

But blockcasting is a no go to stamina builds, and the way it is proposed to be nerf'd will nerf their ability to defend themselves against their enemies.

So the propose change will:
- nerf the magicka builds, which were abusing this game mechanic - good point
- nerf the stamina builds, which will no longer be able to defend themselves in Cyrodiil - wrong decision

A better solution would have been to nerf the damage people can deal while blocking.

Tankqull · July 2015

with the upcomming changes they should do so, while i´m still for adding not substituting skills.

Bashev · July 2015

Yuke wrote: »

So, is there a reason?

It would have been too strong on a DK with 1.6. but i think without being able to block for a long time in 1.7., its finally reasonable to give the DK the Molten Whip morph as a stamina version.

Feel free to discuss

I also wanted a stamina morph so much but now with the new changes probably the magicka builds will be more viable considering that the mist form will be our main defensive/escaping ability. So now I am affraid to request this morph and later regret for that

.

Etaniel · July 2015

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Blockcasting is only useful to the magicka builds. It is an overpowered game mechanics allowing people to mitigate a lot of damage while dealing a lot of damage, with a good usage of both the stamina and the magicka pool.

But blockcasting is a no go to stamina builds, and the way it is proposed to be nerf'd will nerf their ability to defend themselves against their enemies.

So the propose change will:
- nerf the magicka builds, which were abusing this game mechanic - good point
- nerf the stamina builds, which will no longer be able to defend themselves in Cyrodiil - wrong decision

A better solution would have been to nerf the damage people can deal while blocking.

Blockcasting is a broken mechanic?? You could have argued that in 1.5, but right now there is absolutely no reason to complain about permablocking/block casting since every class can CC through block...
This nerf is not a useful one, nor has it been asked for...

Also don't encourage for a stamina whip ! Because then I'm sure us magicka builds will be stuck with the *** bugged morph when lava whip is our only reliable class dps skill

Erondil · July 2015

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Blockcasting is only useful to the magicka builds. It is an overpowered game mechanics allowing people to mitigate a lot of damage while dealing a lot of damage, with a good usage of both the stamina and the magicka pool.

But blockcasting is a no go to stamina builds, and the way it is proposed to be nerf'd will nerf their ability to defend themselves against their enemies.

So the propose change will:
- nerf the magicka builds, which were abusing this game mechanic - good point
- nerf the stamina builds, which will no longer be able to defend themselves in Cyrodiil - wrong decision

A better solution would have been to nerf the damage people can deal while blocking.

That is... not true at all, stamina builds can perfectly rely on block casting. Stamina SB NB or DK usually rely more on block than on rolldodge eventhough they use medium armor and they got huge damages. You think the contrary because most of stamina builds dont use sb so ofc they wont block (cost too high)

Yuke · July 2015

Hmm, it seems im kinda alone with my opinion - didnt expect that tbh!

Yuke · July 2015

Bashev wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

So, is there a reason?

It would have been too strong on a DK with 1.6. but i think without being able to block for a long time in 1.7., its finally reasonable to give the DK the Molten Whip morph as a stamina version.

Feel free to discuss

I also wanted a stamina morph so much but now with the new changes probably the magicka builds will be more viable considering that the mist form will be our main defensive/escaping ability. So now I am affraid to request this morph and later regret for that .

You dont have to be afraid. All the staminamorphs of the ardentflame skillline dont count as fireattacks.

Bashev · July 2015

Yuke wrote: »

Hmm, it seems im kinda alone with my opinion - didnt expect that tbh!

In 1.6 I will take any-day a stamina morph of one of the morphs but with the new changes coming I really dont know what to except.

Bashev · July 2015

Yuke wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

So, is there a reason?

It would have been too strong on a DK with 1.6. but i think without being able to block for a long time in 1.7., its finally reasonable to give the DK the Molten Whip morph as a stamina version.

Feel free to discuss

I also wanted a stamina morph so much but now with the new changes probably the magicka builds will be more viable considering that the mist form will be our main defensive/escaping ability. So now I am affraid to request this morph and later regret for that .

You dont have to be afraid. All the staminamorphs of the ardentflame skillline dont count as fireattacks.

You didnt get me. I am not afraid of the fire damage. I am afraid that I will respect as a magicka DK and then it would be better if I can chose the better morph. Why should I respect to a magicka DK because of the mist form escape/defense.

vortexman11 · July 2015

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Blockcasting is only useful to the magicka builds. It is an overpowered game mechanics allowing people to mitigate a lot of damage while dealing a lot of damage, with a good usage of both the stamina and the magicka pool.

Its funny how people consider blocking a broken mechanic. It does not mitigate 100% of incoming damage like roll dodge, nor does it completely mitigate crit damage like these 20k shields you see people running around with.

A true perma blocker has 0 damage output, and a magicka DK that can block for an extremely long time will hit you for on average 5k-7k. Even in 5 heavy someone not blocking will get hit for 15k wrecking blows, 20k snipes, 14k incap strikes, 12k crystal frags. All of which are double or more the damage a block caster can put out, and thats on someone in nearly full heavy. Yet blocking is the broken mechanic, I see.

Of course I'm saying this because Im a block caster, of course I know nothing I say will stop the changes in 1.7, but I shall QQ anyways.

MissBizz · July 2015

I believe they discussed the whole lava whip stamina morph thing on last Friday's ESO live actually, you should check it out. IIRC they felt there was already enough stamina morphs for the class? I could be wrong though, go double check by watching ESO live

Darklord_Tiberius · July 2015

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Blockcasting is only useful to the magicka builds. It is an overpowered game mechanics allowing people to mitigate a lot of damage while dealing a lot of damage, with a good usage of both the stamina and the magicka pool.

But blockcasting is a no go to stamina builds, and the way it is proposed to be nerf'd will nerf their ability to defend themselves against their enemies.

So the propose change will:
- nerf the magicka builds, which were abusing this game mechanic - good point
- nerf the stamina builds, which will no longer be able to defend themselves in Cyrodiil - wrong decision

A better solution would have been to nerf the damage people can deal while blocking.

If perma blocking was honestly the only way you think you could defend yourself against players, you need to re-learn how to play this game. Perma Blocking is a sign of people to lazy to theory craft and simply put; bad players. This game has a ton of different skills and armor sets; if you cannot figure out how to theory craft a usable build with all that other than just holding block button; you are bad.

Its amusing how many of the so called "Top" PvPers in this game think they are good by using broken mechanics to their advantage. Put any of them in either Guild Wars GvG or WoW arenas; they would get rolled day in and day out.

Learn to play. Learn to theory craft. Learn to stop whining.

silentdude · July 2015

vortexman11 wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Blockcasting is only useful to the magicka builds. It is an overpowered game mechanics allowing people to mitigate a lot of damage while dealing a lot of damage, with a good usage of both the stamina and the magicka pool.

Its funny how people consider blocking a broken mechanic. It does not mitigate 100% of incoming damage like roll dodge, nor does it completely mitigate crit damage like these 20k shields you see people running around with.

A true perma blocker has 0 damage output, and a magicka DK that can block for an extremely long time will hit you for on average 5k-7k. Even in 5 heavy someone not blocking will get hit for 15k wrecking blows, 20k snipes, 14k incap strikes, 12k crystal frags. All of which are double or more the damage a block caster can put out, and thats on someone in nearly full heavy. Yet blocking is the broken mechanic, I see.

Of course I'm saying this because Im a block caster, of course I know nothing I say will stop the changes in 1.7, but I shall QQ anyways.

Darnathian · July 2015

vortexman11 wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Blockcasting is only useful to the magicka builds. It is an overpowered game mechanics allowing people to mitigate a lot of damage while dealing a lot of damage, with a good usage of both the stamina and the magicka pool.

Its funny how people consider blocking a broken mechanic. It does not mitigate 100% of incoming damage like roll dodge, nor does it completely mitigate crit damage like these 20k shields you see people running around with.

A true perma blocker has 0 damage output, and a magicka DK that can block for an extremely long time will hit you for on average 5k-7k. Even in 5 heavy someone not blocking will get hit for 15k wrecking blows, 20k snipes, 14k incap strikes, 12k crystal frags. All of which are double or more the damage a block caster can put out, and thats on someone in nearly full heavy. Yet blocking is the broken mechanic, I see.

Of course I'm saying this because Im a block caster, of course I know nothing I say will stop the changes in 1.7, but I shall QQ anyways.

Well said. Been a magica dk since beginning. There have been some tough times. This might be the nail in the coffin for me though. I will wait until it comes out but i don't see how we will be able to kill sorcs or night blades. Pots not revealing nb's and fear intact = death.

It's funny that sorcs and night blades whine when they can't kill us instantly and get thier way. No escape for our class and we are designed to be tanky and now take our Stam regen so they can kill us quickly? Lol. Just lol.

Darnathian · July 2015

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Blockcasting is only useful to the magicka builds. It is an overpowered game mechanics allowing people to mitigate a lot of damage while dealing a lot of damage, with a good usage of both the stamina and the magicka pool.

But blockcasting is a no go to stamina builds, and the way it is proposed to be nerf'd will nerf their ability to defend themselves against their enemies.

So the propose change will:
- nerf the magicka builds, which were abusing this game mechanic - good point
- nerf the stamina builds, which will no longer be able to defend themselves in Cyrodiil - wrong decision

A better solution would have been to nerf the damage people can deal while blocking.

If perma blocking was honestly the only way you think you could defend yourself against players, you need to re-learn how to play this game. Perma Blocking is a sign of people to lazy to theory craft and simply put; bad players. This game has a ton of different skills and armor sets; if you cannot figure out how to theory craft a usable build with all that other than just holding block button; you are bad.

Its amusing how many of the so called "Top" PvPers in this game think they are good by using broken mechanics to their advantage. Put any of them in either Guild Wars GvG or WoW arenas; they would get rolled day in and day out.

Learn to play. Learn to theory craft. Learn to stop whining.

Lol. People who chose a class that is designed to be tanky and put out less damage and have been nerfed continuously since the beginning, all of a sudden they make a dramatic change because sorcs and night blades can't kill them quickly and they are whiners?

It's not about skill all the time dude. Some people like that play style. If you think it is easy to be tanky and kill people still please roll a Templar or DK and show us how to "l2p"? Lol

Maulkin · July 2015

Yuke wrote: »

So, is there a reason?

It would have been too strong on a DK with 1.6. but i think without being able to block for a long time in 1.7., its finally reasonable to give the DK the Molten Whip morph as a stamina version.

Feel free to discuss

I'll discuss Yuke.

Imo they should leave flame whip as is because both morphs are extremely useful to magicka DKs. One for PvP (the heals) and one for PvE (spell dmg).

My proposal for a very long time has been that they need to rethink the "other" morph of Uppercut. I'm talking about Dizzying Swing. Nobody uses it. It's simply below par when compared to Wrecking Blow

What I propose is to rename Dizzying Swing to Rapid Swing, lower the base damage a bit (to Surprise Attack levels), remove the CC element and finally make it insta-cast.

I think the above idea will give both stamina DKs and Templars an instant damage skill to go with the very quick and fluid playstyle of a stamina build. For people who prefer the burst & CC of Wrecking Blow, they'll still have that option, but it comes with being a sitting target for 1".

I'm just not a big fan of block-casted skills behind a shield. Having huge damage mitigation while maintaining good damage is an issue. Frags buffed with 3k spell damage and 36k magicka hitting a blocking DK for 1k while his whips do 5k-6k is not right (Equally, it's not right hitting +23k frags against non-blocking light armor targets. All extremes are an issue not just this one)

Yuke · July 2015

I could live with that Maulkin. I just want a stamina based anytimer i can use while playing with 2h/bow.

JDar · July 2015

vortexman11 wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Blockcasting is only useful to the magicka builds. It is an overpowered game mechanics allowing people to mitigate a lot of damage while dealing a lot of damage, with a good usage of both the stamina and the magicka pool.

Its funny how people consider blocking a broken mechanic. It does not mitigate 100% of incoming damage like roll dodge, nor does it completely mitigate crit damage like these 20k shields you see people running around with.

A true perma blocker has 0 damage output, and a magicka DK that can block for an extremely long time will hit you for on average 5k-7k. Even in 5 heavy someone not blocking will get hit for 15k wrecking blows, 20k snipes, 14k incap strikes, 12k crystal frags. All of which are double or more the damage a block caster can put out, and thats on someone in nearly full heavy. Yet blocking is the broken mechanic, I see.

Of course I'm saying this because Im a block caster, of course I know nothing I say will stop the changes in 1.7, but I shall QQ anyways.

People who just know how to mindlessly spam attacks or open with the same combo's over and over again probably didn't like that they were wasting all their resources on their first three hits and then getting pwned by players who understand resource management. And that is why blockcasting was unfair to them.

ToRelax · July 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

So, is there a reason?

It would have been too strong on a DK with 1.6. but i think without being able to block for a long time in 1.7., its finally reasonable to give the DK the Molten Whip morph as a stamina version.

Feel free to discuss

I'll discuss Yuke.

Imo they should leave flame whip as is because both morphs are extremely useful to magicka DKs. One for PvP (the heals) and one for PvE (spell dmg).

[...]

Actually I thought magicka DK is still top notch dps or is that outdated by now?
So it wouldn't actually hurt PvE to make that morph stamina (with another bonus, obviously).

trimsic_ESO · July 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Blockcasting is only useful to the magicka builds. It is an overpowered game mechanics allowing people to mitigate a lot of damage while dealing a lot of damage, with a good usage of both the stamina and the magicka pool.

But blockcasting is a no go to stamina builds, and the way it is proposed to be nerf'd will nerf their ability to defend themselves against their enemies.

So the propose change will:
- nerf the magicka builds, which were abusing this game mechanic - good point
- nerf the stamina builds, which will no longer be able to defend themselves in Cyrodiil - wrong decision

A better solution would have been to nerf the damage people can deal while blocking.

Blockcasting is a broken mechanic?? You could have argued that in 1.5, but right now there is absolutely no reason to complain about permablocking/block casting since every class can CC through block...
This nerf is not a useful one, nor has it been asked for...

Also don't encourage for a stamina whip ! Because then I'm sure us magicka builds will be stuck with the *** bugged morph when lava whip is our only reliable class dps skill

Only fear can ignore the blocking stance.

trimsic_ESO · July 2015

Erondil wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Blockcasting is only useful to the magicka builds. It is an overpowered game mechanics allowing people to mitigate a lot of damage while dealing a lot of damage, with a good usage of both the stamina and the magicka pool.

But blockcasting is a no go to stamina builds, and the way it is proposed to be nerf'd will nerf their ability to defend themselves against their enemies.

So the propose change will:
- nerf the magicka builds, which were abusing this game mechanic - good point
- nerf the stamina builds, which will no longer be able to defend themselves in Cyrodiil - wrong decision

A better solution would have been to nerf the damage people can deal while blocking.

That is... not true at all, stamina builds can perfectly rely on block casting. Stamina SB NB or DK usually rely more on block than on rolldodge eventhough they use medium armor and they got huge damages. You think the contrary because most of stamina builds dont use sb so ofc they wont block (cost too high)

Have you ever played a stamina build?
I have since day one. When I block, my stamina pool depletes slowly but surely, and if I start casting some stamina abilities, no chance I can have enough stamina to kill my target.

"I can" does not mean that it's efficient or viable.

vortexman11 · July 2015

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Blockcasting is only useful to the magicka builds. It is an overpowered game mechanics allowing people to mitigate a lot of damage while dealing a lot of damage, with a good usage of both the stamina and the magicka pool.

But blockcasting is a no go to stamina builds, and the way it is proposed to be nerf'd will nerf their ability to defend themselves against their enemies.

So the propose change will:
- nerf the magicka builds, which were abusing this game mechanic - good point
- nerf the stamina builds, which will no longer be able to defend themselves in Cyrodiil - wrong decision

A better solution would have been to nerf the damage people can deal while blocking.

Blockcasting is a broken mechanic?? You could have argued that in 1.5, but right now there is absolutely no reason to complain about permablocking/block casting since every class can CC through block...
This nerf is not a useful one, nor has it been asked for...

Also don't encourage for a stamina whip ! Because then I'm sure us magicka builds will be stuck with the *** bugged morph when lava whip is our only reliable class dps skill

Only fear can ignore the blocking stance.

Wrong,

Nightblades have both Fear and Agony
Dragonknights have Petrify
Templars have Spear Shards
Sorcerers have Rune Prison

trimsic_ESO · July 2015

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Blockcasting is only useful to the magicka builds. It is an overpowered game mechanics allowing people to mitigate a lot of damage while dealing a lot of damage, with a good usage of both the stamina and the magicka pool.

But blockcasting is a no go to stamina builds, and the way it is proposed to be nerf'd will nerf their ability to defend themselves against their enemies.

So the propose change will:
- nerf the magicka builds, which were abusing this game mechanic - good point
- nerf the stamina builds, which will no longer be able to defend themselves in Cyrodiil - wrong decision

A better solution would have been to nerf the damage people can deal while blocking.

If perma blocking was honestly the only way you think you could defend yourself against players, you need to re-learn how to play this game. Perma Blocking is a sign of people to lazy to theory craft and simply put; bad players. This game has a ton of different skills and armor sets; if you cannot figure out how to theory craft a usable build with all that other than just holding block button; you are bad.

Its amusing how many of the so called "Top" PvPers in this game think they are good by using broken mechanics to their advantage. Put any of them in either Guild Wars GvG or WoW arenas; they would get rolled day in and day out.

Learn to play. Learn to theory craft. Learn to stop whining.

Why do you infer that I only block? Did I ever say something like that?

But if the stamina regen is nullified while blocking, then it's not possible anymore to play a tank in Cyrodiil. And I even don't talk about PVE.

trimsic_ESO · July 2015

vortexman11 wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Blockcasting is only useful to the magicka builds. It is an overpowered game mechanics allowing people to mitigate a lot of damage while dealing a lot of damage, with a good usage of both the stamina and the magicka pool.

But blockcasting is a no go to stamina builds, and the way it is proposed to be nerf'd will nerf their ability to defend themselves against their enemies.

So the propose change will:
- nerf the magicka builds, which were abusing this game mechanic - good point
- nerf the stamina builds, which will no longer be able to defend themselves in Cyrodiil - wrong decision

A better solution would have been to nerf the damage people can deal while blocking.

Blockcasting is a broken mechanic?? You could have argued that in 1.5, but right now there is absolutely no reason to complain about permablocking/block casting since every class can CC through block...
This nerf is not a useful one, nor has it been asked for...

Also don't encourage for a stamina whip ! Because then I'm sure us magicka builds will be stuck with the *** bugged morph when lava whip is our only reliable class dps skill

Only fear can ignore the blocking stance.

Wrong,

Nightblades have both Fear and Agony
Dragonknights have Petrify
Templars have Spear Shards
Sorcerers have Rune Prison

Ok, I was talking about AOE CC in Cyrodiil.

vortexman11 · July 2015

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Blockcasting is only useful to the magicka builds. It is an overpowered game mechanics allowing people to mitigate a lot of damage while dealing a lot of damage, with a good usage of both the stamina and the magicka pool.

But blockcasting is a no go to stamina builds, and the way it is proposed to be nerf'd will nerf their ability to defend themselves against their enemies.

So the propose change will:
- nerf the magicka builds, which were abusing this game mechanic - good point
- nerf the stamina builds, which will no longer be able to defend themselves in Cyrodiil - wrong decision

A better solution would have been to nerf the damage people can deal while blocking.

Blockcasting is a broken mechanic?? You could have argued that in 1.5, but right now there is absolutely no reason to complain about permablocking/block casting since every class can CC through block...
This nerf is not a useful one, nor has it been asked for...

Also don't encourage for a stamina whip ! Because then I'm sure us magicka builds will be stuck with the *** bugged morph when lava whip is our only reliable class dps skill

Only fear can ignore the blocking stance.

Wrong,

Nightblades have both Fear and Agony
Dragonknights have Petrify
Templars have Spear Shards
Sorcerers have Rune Prison

Ok, I was talking about AOE CC in Cyrodiil.

That would just be fear and spear shards then