Visual Cues for Stealthed Enemies

DDuke · July 2015

Hello, and thank you for taking your time to read this.

With the upcoming changes to the game, and the inevitable complaints about magicka NBs thanks to cloak getting fixed (a good thing by itself), I would like to propose some changes to how the ability (and stealth in general) work in this game.

Without further ado, let's get started:

Visual Cues

The concept is that your cloak/sneaking wouldn't be 100% invisibility, which often makes finding sneaking/cloaking opponents just guesswork basicly, but that you'd be able to find the invisible/sneaking opponent if you had a sharp eye.

What would these be?
Well, for instance:

Footprints left on the ground
Slight shimmering or other visual effects where the invisible opponent moves

What would these not be?

Neon signs yelling: "I'm here!"

To leave some room for jukes/skilled play and create depth, I would also propose these visual cues only apply to moving players, not ones that are stationary.

Now, if this applied to cloak, how would this impact normal sneaking?

Gradual Stealth Detection

Currently how stealth detection works is that you are stealthed, and then you just suddenly become visible. There's not much more to it.

Be it due to a bug, patrolling NPC with crazy detection radius, detection potion or whatever, one thing is sure: it's extremely frustrating.

Now, what gradual stealth detection would mean is that targets at your maximum stealth detection range would have the same (or different) visual cues as cloak, and then would gradually become more & more visible the closer you get to them, until eventually becoming targetable.

You wouldn't just suddenly have the stealth eye open and start getting hit by everything, but you'd know that enemies are aware of you.
At this point, you'd be able to stop to reduce visual cues (see above), leaving your enemies searching for you in the area you were at (opponents would start seeing the visual cues even while you're stationary, if they were close enough), or you could try to reposition (but have greater risk of getting fully detected).

I have a feeling that what I've proposed would make the game more enjoyable for people fighting stealthed/invisible enemies, as well as people using stealth as part of their gameplay.

Any thoughts?

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_RichLambert

Akavir_Sentinel · July 2015

I hate NB's but even I'm against this. Invisible is invisible. Besides, it wouldn't matter if your character slowly became visible inside of detection range, your dead give-away faction icon would still be above your head.

lathbury · July 2015

I think you are confusing cloak and sneaking as cloak on lasts a few seconds

DDuke · July 2015

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

I hate NB's but even I'm against this. Invisible is invisible. Besides, it wouldn't matter if your character slowly became visible inside of detection range, your dead give-away faction icon would still be above your head.

Simple solution: remove faction icon when stealthed :P

Many other games do invisibility this way, they leave small visual cues (nothing too obvious!) for enemies. It's still invisibility and you get to surprise opponents.

See for instance MOBAs and their stealth characters (e.g. Nova/Zeratul in HOTS).

DDuke · July 2015

lathbury wrote: »

I think you are confusing cloak and sneaking as cloak on lasts a few seconds

Well, idea is that cloak would leave very few visual cues (and only when you're moving in it), regardless of range to opponent.

Stealth detection would account the range & whether you're moving or not, and then gradually increase the visual cues.

Pchela · July 2015

I've been able to hear the cloak when an enemy pops it. That's good enough for me.

Akavir_Sentinel · July 2015

If I even remotely think that a stealthed opponent is in the area, I do one of two things. Break out the resto staff and hold down the attack button and swing side to side in the area that I think they are in, or hold down block and keep pressing the button for whatever bow or instant ranged skill I have loaded up. Either way, the instant they break cloak or enter detection range they get hit.

Reeko · July 2015

The stealth in this game is alot like that in WoW. Atleast back when i played not sure if they changed it. But it worked fine. You have some interesting ideas but i personally think the stealth is fine in ESO currently.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · July 2015

NB invi is invi
stealth (crowching) should be something more like you discribe
dude crowching middle of a field doesnt get seen by whole blob moving past, somethings off

Ahzek · January 2016

This one was told to bump this thread and he does so now.

He now can add thread necromancer to his official titles

Lysette · January 2016

Well, this thread is old, I will nevertheless say something in this context. I do already not like that same faction can see you even you are in sneak. Stealth should be stealth regardless for whom. I fear with the upcoming name tags that ZOS will break sneak, there should be no clues whatsoever when successfully in stealth. The whole point of stealth to be there without that the enemy is aware of your presence. Any clue would just break the stealth ability and it would be pointless.

RoyJade · January 2016

Thanks to this one, I can give an another idea : one player in stealth can be hard to find, but a whole zerg shouldn't left any clues of his presence. A very very tight visual effect who is bigger the more sthealted players they are in the same place seem to be a good idea in my opinion. Zerg shouldn't be so hard to find, they should be spread or behind something (like a tree or a rock).

Mivryna · January 2016

The issue is that if there's any indicator whatsoever, even the slightest ping of a stealthed character's location, it means the player's client has access to the information about that character and where they are.

If there's any bit of data about a stealthed character on a person's computer, people will have the means to obtain that data and exploit it. They can develop scripts that automatically alert the player when someone is around. I've played against players who use this sort of thing, and it's a downright dirty tactic. But it can be overcome with skill. Remove what little protection stealth-users have, and skill will be meaningless.

CaptainObvious · January 2016

Ahzek wrote: »

This one was told to bump this thread and he does so now.

He now can add thread necromancer to his official titles

Just stay away from necroromancy.

CaptainObvious · January 2016

Yes, this would be heavily exploitable. Some people develop graphics drivers to toggle see through walls. I.E. enable/disable occulting. While fancy, this would basically result in an always on detection potion.

Decayed_Inside · January 2016

You already have detection potions, use them.