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A concerned player's opinion regarding the state of Cyrodiil

ThyIronFist
ThyIronFist
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Long-ish read incoming, get your drinks ready.

I'm a long time EU player, played beta and been here from early access. Some of you may have seen me in Cyrodiil, some of you may not. Anyway, I am posting this because I am genuinely concerned about where the PvP in this game is heading to and why ZOS is not giving PvP any attention whatsoever. It's not like they ever did though. I'm a passionate player, put hundreds of €€€ into this and it makes me so sad to see where the game is now at. I hope that after almost two years of blood sweat and tears, PvP will finally deserve the attention it was supposed to have when the game released.

I came back to the game last week after having quit for 3 months... don't know what I expected to be honest. Almost every patch just keeps getting worse and worse it seems. I can't play for more than a few hours in Cyrodiil before vomiting. I'd say that patch 1.5 was pretty alright, it's my personal opinion and just by judging how many guildies and friends were still playing the game then. I would say that 1.5 was a sweet spot, it had its issues, sure. But I'll gladly take that than the current meta.

Balance:

First of all, these are all my opinions. You can disagree or agree with them, I don't mind. I'm just here because I want to share my current thoughts about the game. As a DK player I'd like to say that whatever complaints that people still have about DKs, please stop it. They have almost zero mobility. They cannot escape. If you're outnumbered, a Sorc can get away, a NB can get away, as a DK you have two choices: wipe them all, which in the current state of Cyrodiil is unlikely unless you are an emperor or they're a bunch of inexperienced noobs, or just accept your fate and die. People endlessly complained about DKs in the past, they've been nerfed almost every patch because of crybabies not knowing how to counter. For example; the average Legolas mindlessly shooting with his pew pew bow into a flappy-flap DK.

While we're at it I also would like to address the ultimate generation change that came with 1.6. I still cannot fully decide whether this was a good thing or a bad thing, yes it got rid of the infinite bat spam and immortal Sorcs and DKs. But for smaller groups this change wasn't exactly helpful when it comes to fighting larger numbers. Then again, I'm glad an ultimate feels like an actual ultimate now, instead of just being a 6th button. Talking about ultimates, they NEED to fix Meteor. It causes lag and every time I see meteors being used I lose my will to live. Either fix it or remove it from the game until you've found a way to fix it.

Another thing that's undoubtedly bothering many players; here I am sitting on 31k spell resistance and 20k armour getting hit by 14k proximity detonations, and 15k+ snipes by some random noob that sits on top of a rock with a bow 40 yards away. It's an utter joke and snipe has been the most ridiculous OP skill for many months now, and why it hasn't been nerfed yet is beyond me.

From what I can tell so far, now it's Elder Nightblades Online. Nightblades are ridiculous, regardless whether they are magicka or stamina based. Not even going to discuss this, going to try and keep it short. They need a nerf. That, along with infinite dodge rolling. You might as well not bother fighting them and just let them kill you and then watch your death recap while your friends laugh at you on TS.

"ah nice, 16k soul harvest"
"oh look, *insert NB skill here, 10k damage out of nowhere"

What is that you say? Nightblades are not overpowered? Alright then, lets give them invisibility and some healing while were at it, and lets also make them move faster than the speed of light. Hell, even when you're using detection potions, NBs are just silly.

I don't have too much of an opinion on Templars and Sorcs. I'd say Templars are fine, even with the almighty Jesus beam that can be ridiculous from time to time. I still think Templars are alright. Although biting jabs might need to be looked at, with a stamina build the damage is a bit too high. I do however still see occasional complaints about Sorcs. As a DK I'd like to point out that, please, leave Sorcs alone. Without shields a Sorc is paper and pretty much useless. End of story. Defeat their shields, you defeat the Sorc.

About siege weapons:

I think this is one of the only things ZOS has ever done correctly in PvP, siege damage. It's great, it hurts, it forces people to be more aware. But I still think that the Oil Catapult should be un-nerfed. Why ZOS ever decided to make the snare effect purgeable is beyond me. It was a great way to stop zergs. Now its a shadow of its former self, and its basically useless. Another victory for the zergballers. Also, bring back the original healing reduction from the meatbag catapult! I don't know if its me, but ever since the siege changes the meatbag catapult seems to apply a lower healing reduction. Could be just me though. Another early victory for the zergs was the removal of ground oil, as much as people hated it because "hur dur muh immersion, muh realism", I know ground oil doesn't make any sense, but you're playing a game for crying out loud. Ground oil was great for defending keeps, it was the ESO variant of booby traps, or so to speak. I sorely miss the days where you and friends could defend a flag while vastly outnumbered.

While we're talking about siege, Purge needs to be nerfed into the ground. Along with many other players I'm sick of it. Siege is useless, anything with healing reduction is useless, anything that can be purged is pretty much useless when fighting a zerg or player that uses purge. If you're outnumbered and defending a keep, just don't waste your AP on siege and leave. It's pointless. The zerg will win, regardless of skill, all you need is a few heal spammers and purge spammers. If it's laggy, just stand on the flags while healing and purging and that's it, gg. You've won. Such skill. Such gameplay. Wow.

Talking about lag:

I haven't experienced too much "insane lag" lately, there still is horrible lag at times but it feels like it used to be much worse. Still, large scale battles are mostly unplayable and result in me having 15-30 fps with a GTX970 and an i5 3570k. Even a friend of mine that has a GTX TITAN has the same or sometimes worse performance than I have. It's completely unacceptable. Even with the lag and poor performance, I've learned to live with it and realized that ZOS is incapable of fixing it. I just want them to address the balance issues, as every time they've tried to improve the performance they've made it miserably worse.

Ah yes, I remember the days of "the 1 fps patch." "The lighting patch." The glorious 1.2 patch where almost everyone played at 1-10 fps for almost a month and where PvP players quit the game in droves.

PvP content:

[Moderator Note: Video removed per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

Also, what ever happened to this concept?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR1ccuyGCwA

Anyhow, now that I've said whatever I wanted to say, thanks for reading and pray to the gods ZOS will finally see the light and do something about PvP.

TLDR: read it or don't bother

@BrianWheeler
Edited by ZOS_ArtG on July 2, 2015 5:57PM
The Elder Zergs Online
Sainur Ironfist - DK - EU - Ebonheart Pact
Retired
  • stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO
    stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO
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    Read, and agreed. However, I don't think PvP is ever going to be fixed for the PC players. I just hope that they chose to program the console servers differently, so that console players will be able to experience the relatively lag-free large battles we used to have on PC around launch. It should at least be possible.
  • Bromburak
    Bromburak
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    First of all, these are all my opinions. You can disagree or agree with them, I don't mind. I'm just here because I want to share my current thoughts about the game. As a DK player I'd like to say that whatever complaints that people still have about DKs, please stop it. They have almost zero mobility. They cannot escape. If you're outnumbered, a Sorc can get away, a NB can get away, as a DK you have two choices: wipe them all, which in the current state of Cyrodiil is unlikely unless you are an emperor or they're a bunch of inexperienced noobs, or just accept your fate and die. People endlessly complained about DKs in the past, they've been nerfed almost every patch because of crybabies not knowing how to counter. For example; the average Legolas mindlessly shooting with his pew pew bow into a flappy-flap DK.

    Maybe you learn something.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7jDRcqHIBI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTsLJCRYGPc
  • ToRelax
    ToRelax
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    Bromburak wrote: »
    First of all, these are all my opinions. You can disagree or agree with them, I don't mind. I'm just here because I want to share my current thoughts about the game. As a DK player I'd like to say that whatever complaints that people still have about DKs, please stop it. They have almost zero mobility. They cannot escape. If you're outnumbered, a Sorc can get away, a NB can get away, as a DK you have two choices: wipe them all, which in the current state of Cyrodiil is unlikely unless you are an emperor or they're a bunch of inexperienced noobs, or just accept your fate and die. People endlessly complained about DKs in the past, they've been nerfed almost every patch because of crybabies not knowing how to counter. For example; the average Legolas mindlessly shooting with his pew pew bow into a flappy-flap DK.

    Maybe you learn something.

    A single DK dying to a bunch of NBs.
    You're agreeing with the OP, then? :)
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
  • Bromburak
    Bromburak
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    ToRelax wrote: »
    Bromburak wrote: »
    First of all, these are all my opinions. You can disagree or agree with them, I don't mind. I'm just here because I want to share my current thoughts about the game. As a DK player I'd like to say that whatever complaints that people still have about DKs, please stop it. They have almost zero mobility. They cannot escape. If you're outnumbered, a Sorc can get away, a NB can get away, as a DK you have two choices: wipe them all, which in the current state of Cyrodiil is unlikely unless you are an emperor or they're a bunch of inexperienced noobs, or just accept your fate and die. People endlessly complained about DKs in the past, they've been nerfed almost every patch because of crybabies not knowing how to counter. For example; the average Legolas mindlessly shooting with his pew pew bow into a flappy-flap DK.

    Maybe you learn something.

    A single DK dying to a bunch of NBs.

    Your expectations are almost worth a new sig.
  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
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    There are things i agree with, but I do not think NB are OP. I think more people have switched to NB b/c stamina builds are more prevalent now. This has resulted in more people dieing to NB which increases the perception that they are op. Also, because there used to be less NB in the game it was not as pressing a matter to learn how to counter them. Now that more people play NB people have to change how they approached killing other players b/c of the increase in NB players. Speaking from a position of a NB player (my only vet toon) since beta, I would have to say that a player who knows how to play a NB has always been tough to kill and hit like a truck. NB have always had the best burst damage in the game. It just became the new flavor of the month. I think stamina builds in general are a little more op then the rest. But again, most of that has to do with less people in pvp playing magicka builds because of the problem with Nirn. imo once nirn is fixed, then there will be more balance to the game. My argument for infinite dodge rollers is that they dont put out high dps they spend their whole time rolling around. If you know what you are doing, then a dodge roller will never kill you. also, NB have no damage mitigation abilities so dodge rolling is the go to. DK has green dragon blood, obsidian sheild, and something else that I am forgetting. Sorc has streak, sheild, and armor buffs. Temo has majore heals and armor buffs. NB has no self heal, no armor buff and no sheild. at best they have dark cloak that can very easily be countered with detect pots. (if your not carrying detect pots in pvp at this point, then shame on you). so, dodge roll is the only dmage mitigation we have and we cant attack while using our damage mitigation like others can.

    the other point i disagree with is purge to an extent. I can see one the one hand how it is op. on the other hand, it requires a coordinated group to charge people with supporting with purge so requires SOME sort of advanced strategy. moreover, I have personally been involved in keep defenses outnumbered facing a group spamming purge and prevailed on numerous occasions just like my groups have been wiped when spamming purge. It requires counter tactics is all. One fireseige werapon at the group at the same time rather then one at a time. i dont care how much heals or purge you have no group is going to survive numerous hits at the same time. Moreover, a line of oils up the stairways rather than just a couple above the opening. that way their is a constant stream of oils and ballistas hitting them.
  • eliisra
    eliisra
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    Bromburak wrote: »
    First of all, these are all my opinions. You can disagree or agree with them, I don't mind. I'm just here because I want to share my current thoughts about the game. As a DK player I'd like to say that whatever complaints that people still have about DKs, please stop it. They have almost zero mobility. They cannot escape. If you're outnumbered, a Sorc can get away, a NB can get away, as a DK you have two choices: wipe them all, which in the current state of Cyrodiil is unlikely unless you are an emperor or they're a bunch of inexperienced noobs, or just accept your fate and die. People endlessly complained about DKs in the past, they've been nerfed almost every patch because of crybabies not knowing how to counter. For example; the average Legolas mindlessly shooting with his pew pew bow into a flappy-flap DK.

    Maybe you learn something.

    You mean learn to not play as a stamina DK?

    Learn to magicka vampire?

    Learn to hide some more in Mist Form?

    Learn to pick your fights, go for mighty tyro and corporal NA EP zerglings?

    How to stay alive for 1.20 minutes using Mist Form Clouding Swarm, before you get rekt by NB's?

    While these are some valuable advices, they're pretty hard to incorporate for EU players that for whatever reason refuses to go vampire (or reroll NA) :smirk:
  • Garion
    Garion
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    Bromburak wrote: »
    First of all, these are all my opinions. You can disagree or agree with them, I don't mind. I'm just here because I want to share my current thoughts about the game. As a DK player I'd like to say that whatever complaints that people still have about DKs, please stop it. They have almost zero mobility. They cannot escape. If you're outnumbered, a Sorc can get away, a NB can get away, as a DK you have two choices: wipe them all, which in the current state of Cyrodiil is unlikely unless you are an emperor or they're a bunch of inexperienced noobs, or just accept your fate and die. People endlessly complained about DKs in the past, they've been nerfed almost every patch because of crybabies not knowing how to counter. For example; the average Legolas mindlessly shooting with his pew pew bow into a flappy-flap DK.

    Maybe you learn something.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7jDRcqHIBI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTsLJCRYGPc

    I don't think Sainur needs to learn anything... just because he doesn't make a ton of ESO videos and have a percentage of the ESO population hanging out of his arse, doesn't mean he isn't a good DK. Go take your fanboism elsewhere, please.
    Lastobeth - VR16 Sorc - PvP Rank 41 (AD)
    Lastoblyat - VR16 Templar - PvP Rank 14 (AD)
    Ninja Pete - VR16 NB - PvP Rank 10 (AD)
    Labo the Banana Slayer - VR14 Sorc - PvP Rank 12 (EP)

    Member of Banana Squad | Officer of Arena
  • ToRelax
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    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    There are things i agree with, but I do not think NB are OP. I think more people have switched to NB b/c stamina builds are more prevalent now. This has resulted in more people dieing to NB which increases the perception that they are op. Also, because there used to be less NB in the game it was not as pressing a matter to learn how to counter them. Now that more people play NB people have to change how they approached killing other players b/c of the increase in NB players. Speaking from a position of a NB player (my only vet toon) since beta, I would have to say that a player who knows how to play a NB has always been tough to kill and hit like a truck. NB have always had the best burst damage in the game. It just became the new flavor of the month. I think stamina builds in general are a little more op then the rest. But again, most of that has to do with less people in pvp playing magicka builds because of the problem with Nirn. imo once nirn is fixed, then there will be more balance to the game. My argument for infinite dodge rollers is that they dont put out high dps they spend their whole time rolling around. If you know what you are doing, then a dodge roller will never kill you. also, NB have no damage mitigation abilities so dodge rolling is the go to. DK has green dragon blood, obsidian sheild, and something else that I am forgetting. Sorc has streak, sheild, and armor buffs. Temo has majore heals and armor buffs. NB has no self heal, no armor buff and no sheild. at best they have dark cloak that can very easily be countered with detect pots. (if your not carrying detect pots in pvp at this point, then shame on you). so, dodge roll is the only dmage mitigation we have and we cant attack while using our damage mitigation like others can.

    [...]

    I don't want to start a clas balance discussion in this thread now, but...

    You do know that every class has a major armor+spell resist buff and NB's is arguably the best of them?
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
  • bowmanz607
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    The NB passive you are referring to is at much of a disadvantage then the others. It requires essentially a spamming of shadow skills to maintain. which either means you constantly need to be attacking which is counter productive of a defensive ability and when you need to fallback in a situation or it requires spamming darkcloak which is not feasible for a full stam build. (i also wonder if there is an internal cooldown to the passive? not sure though) the other defensive abilities in the other classes do not require spamming resources you dont have to maintain.

    also, I am not talking about abilities that are available to all classes such as immovable. I am strictly looking at the class skills.
  • Bromburak
    Bromburak
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    Go take your fanboism elsewhere, please.

    It has nothing todo with being a fan of something just because I have a different opinion!
    Grow up, get some manners and you might be ready for a conversation.
    Garion wrote:
    just because he doesn't make a ton of ESO videos and have a percentage of the ESO population hanging out of his arse, doesn't mean he isn't a good DK.

    Who said he isn't good and why should he make a ton of videos? Read , then there is no need for your speculation. ThylronFist himself calling other players Noobs in his first post just because they use a bow for example.

    If you think this is a constructive feedback for several PvP situations its really silly.
    Btw. frustration won't help anyone to react properly in PvP.

    Learn and make the best out of the current situation or stick with your problems, very simple.
    Edited by Bromburak on July 2, 2015 7:51PM
  • Soris
    Soris
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    It's easy to talk "l2p, adapt etc" behind a random forum nick. The OP's concerns are legit and precise. If people could spent some time outside of ganking and zerging, it's easy to notice these problems. And yes fanboism needs to stop already.
    Edited by Soris on July 2, 2015 8:15PM
    Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]
  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
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    Ummm its easy to do in the game also. i just gave you the formula for doing so. its an anti-ganking setup that is legit. in fact it is a specific counter to the problem the op mentioned. ofcourse you will lose out of other abilities by doing so. but just as a glass cannon loses out on long term fights by speaking hard one way, an anti-ganking setup will lose out else where. it is the trade off. I mean i am just trying to be constructively helpful to a problem the op is having. simply stating that i am hiding behind a forum is ridiculous. I have presented a legit tactic that will severly diminsh your chances of getting a 26k snipe attack. i spend almost all my time in pvp. I spend time ganking, i spend time in coordinated raids, i spend time in small groups. I do not just talk about adapting but actively work to adapt to encounters that i have had. I would suggest others to do the same. for every time a player goes hard one way a player can go hard the other way to counter it given the time to work at it. hell you can even go as far to put impen on your armor which will stop an extra 1k damage aprox. which works well with the champ point passive.
  • Bromburak
    Bromburak
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    Soris wrote: »
    It's easy to talk "l2p, adapt etc" behind a random forum nick. The OP's concerns are legit and precise.

    First of all its easy to call other players noobs like he did just because he died by a player with a bow.
    Maybe he should have analyzed why that happened and what he could have done better in that situation ...

    How about that?

    If he would like to start a discussion about armor penetration its a different story.

    He had some points BUT his concerns about balancing have not been constructive or precise.
    As well he adds Brian Wheeler in a posting like that, you cannot expect that Brian will notice posts like "i got killed by a noob, and have no clue why it happend i just blame the game".
    Edited by Bromburak on July 2, 2015 8:41PM
  • ToRelax
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    Maybe he is calling someone noob because he is not one of the few who would ahve a chance against him 1v1, or just one he usually kills easily. Some people here seem to be awfully concerned about what he thinks about bow wielding NBs. :blush:
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    The NB passive you are referring to is at much of a disadvantage then the others. It requires essentially a spamming of shadow skills to maintain. which either means you constantly need to be attacking which is counter productive of a defensive ability and when you need to fallback in a situation or it requires spamming darkcloak which is not feasible for a full stam build. (i also wonder if there is an internal cooldown to the passive? not sure though) the other defensive abilities in the other classes do not require spamming resources you dont have to maintain.

    also, I am not talking about abilities that are available to all classes such as immovable. I am strictly looking at the class skills.

    You get that buff for any shadow skill. It doesn't take up a slot and shadow skills are mostly very useful.
    Even a stamina NB can easily have enough magicka regen to keep that buff up.
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
  • bowmanz607
    bowmanz607
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    ToRelax wrote: »
    Maybe he is calling someone noob because he is not one of the few who would ahve a chance against him 1v1, or just one he usually kills easily. Some people here seem to be awfully concerned about what he thinks about bow wielding NBs. :blush:
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    The NB passive you are referring to is at much of a disadvantage then the others. It requires essentially a spamming of shadow skills to maintain. which either means you constantly need to be attacking which is counter productive of a defensive ability and when you need to fallback in a situation or it requires spamming darkcloak which is not feasible for a full stam build. (i also wonder if there is an internal cooldown to the passive? not sure though) the other defensive abilities in the other classes do not require spamming resources you dont have to maintain.

    also, I am not talking about abilities that are available to all classes such as immovable. I am strictly looking at the class skills.

    You get that buff for any shadow skill. It doesn't take up a slot and shadow skills are mostly very useful.
    Even a stamina NB can easily have enough magicka regen to keep that buff up.

    it is a 2 sec buff that requires spamming abilities which a stam build will not be able to spam when in defensive mode. every other class has some sheild of some time plus an amor/skill buff. Nb skill requires spamming to keep buff which may not be feasible in many situations. the lowest time frame for another class is 6 sec which allows for more versatility. dodging allows for mitgating damage in defensive situations.

    This point really no longer matters after the latest news. dodge roll was nerfed. i think in an acceptable way.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    For example; the average Legolas mindlessly shooting with his pew pew bow into a flappy-flap DK.
    snipe has been the most ridiculous OP skill for many months now, and why it hasn't been nerfed yet is beyond me.

    I think you're contradicting yourself quite a lot there.


    In case you haven't figured out how to counter Snipe yet...
    • Flappy-flap
    • Roll Dodge
    • Block
    • Damage Shield

    As someone who's been using snipe since beta, it is mostly used for burst combos only and is actually much worse than flying blade (Dual Wield skill) for most scenarios, so I dont really get how you can find the skill "op", considering it barely deals more damage than Surprise Attack (instant cast, stuns from stealth).


    To be honest, this whole post comes across as a hate thread on NBs.

    I would suggest you talk to other DKs who know how to deal with NBs and have no problems with them, rather than expecting to get free AP from them literally right after a 3-month break.


    I can also teach you how to fight vs stamina NBs (from a stamina NB perspective), if you need help.
  • Bromburak
    Bromburak
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    DDuke wrote: »
    To be honest, this whole post comes across as a hate thread on NBs.

    Thats why Garion is here. :)

  • Francescolg
    Francescolg
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    Don't touch NBs please! We've rerolled just yesterday! :'(
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