Please bring target lock to consoles

AnAngryGinger · July 2015

I think the OP just wants the ability to avoid recreating hunting with Richard Cheney.

Callous2208 · July 2015

It still seems to me like your suggesting hard, old school tab target lock. Tank enemy is supposed to move into line of fire in front of healer. Just as the healer in the mob backs away or runs off. This is an intended mechanic. I still focus the healer by going around the tank or knocking him on his behind and charging the healer. Im not locked onto him but I keep him in front of me and attack. Maybe its a ranged thing, admittedly my experience with bows is lacking.

Lynx7386 · July 2015

Right, I don't need the target lock at all for melee weapons, it's purely an issue with range. Even if that "tank enemy" steps in front of me, I should still be able to hit that healer with snipe considering that it fires at a 45 degree angle and would go over anyone in the way. That's how actual archers fire in large scale battles, otherwise they'd be hitting their own troops.

Callous2208 · July 2015

Now im with you. Would be cool. But here's a new hickup to think about. Would it be op in PvP?

nastuug · July 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Right, I don't need the target lock at all for melee weapons, it's purely an issue with range. Even if that "tank enemy" steps in front of me, I should still be able to hit that healer with snipe considering that it fires at a 45 degree angle and would go over anyone in the way. That's how actual archers fire in large scale battles, otherwise they'd be hitting their own troops.

Well in 'Murica, we have advanced far beyond the bow and arrow. I suppose you want to go ahead and give us the ability to plop an AC-130 in Tamriel too, eh?

Just stop. Every post you keep dropping sounds dumber than the last...

Tolmos · July 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Right, I don't need the target lock at all for melee weapons, it's purely an issue with range. Even if that "tank enemy" steps in front of me, I should still be able to hit that healer with snipe considering that it fires at a 45 degree angle and would go over anyone in the way. That's how actual archers fire in large scale battles, otherwise they'd be hitting their own troops.

As long as its 100% on the player to make sure to aim their bow in the proper way to arch the arrow so that it hits the target behind the tank, I am completely with you. Obviously there is no reason why the system should do that for the player (at that point we are just playing a tab target game), but adding appropriate physics to the arrows so the player themselves can aim around other players if they are skilled enough is an exceptional idea.

DenMoria · July 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Target lock? Why? Pay attention to who or what you're hitting and you won't have the problem. Swinging wildly at an enemy just isn't the way I play. Isn't that what the little + sign in the middle of your screen is for?

I'm confused.

Let me illustrate for you the situation where this most often causes problems for me:

-I'm stealthed, with my bow ready. I'm attacking a group of three enemies: a healer, a rogue, and a warrior.
-I open up on the healer. The initial attack does not kill him, but it comes close, all I need Is a couple more attacks to take that enemy out of the equation.
-before I can makeb those attacks, the other two mobs start charging at me.

With no real target control on the console version of eso, my aim automatically switches to the charging warrior/rogue, and the healer gets up, heals himself, and it's as if I had never used stealth to start the battle in the first place.

On pc, my aim would not switch to the approaching enemies because I had locked into the healer, and I'd be able to kill him in the duration of the stealth attack stun.

This is a fundamental difference in the way this game's combat functions between two platforms. There should be no major difference between the pc and console versions of the game.

Makes sense. I can see your issue. Me, I just refocus on who I need to and let whatever I'm using loose. I can see how a target lock might be useful. Sorry - just never encounter the problem before.

Lynx7386 · July 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Right, I don't need the target lock at all for melee weapons, it's purely an issue with range. Even if that "tank enemy" steps in front of me, I should still be able to hit that healer with snipe considering that it fires at a 45 degree angle and would go over anyone in the way. That's how actual archers fire in large scale battles, otherwise they'd be hitting their own troops.

Well in 'Murica, we have advanced far beyond the bow and arrow. I suppose you want to go ahead and give us the ability to plop an AC-130 in Tamriel too, eh?

Just stop. Every post you keep dropping sounds dumber than the last...

I'll use smaller words next time, so it's easier for you to understand.

Tolmos · July 2015

DenMoria wrote: »

Makes sense. I can see your issue. Me, I just refocus on who I need to and let whatever I'm using loose. I can see how a target lock might be useful. Sorry - just never encounter the problem before.

Same, I thought the combat on console was FPS style like the PC. On PC, in that situation, it would be on the player to reposition themselves so that there is nothing between themselves and the target, just like any other FPS game, since a common strategy in FPS is to have a more durable character place themselves between the enemy and a more squishy ally. Subverting that with a target lock on PC would be ridiculous.

But from the way OP is describing, it sounds like on console the player's crosshairs are being automatically shifted over to the other NPC if it's closer or something, so rather than being an FPS style crosshair it's like some sort of rubberbanding auto-target that is targetting the wrong thing. That sounds insane; I can't imagine playing that way. In that case, I can definitely understand why a change in how the auto-target works is in order.

Thalmont · July 2015

I was just telling a friend yestorday I wanted old TES unguided aiming. Not a fan of how it's near impossible to miss with my bow, I want that challenge of having to actually aim. I completely understand why they gave bows a little auto aim feel but I would love an option to completely turn it off.

Lynx7386 · July 2015

Tolmos wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Makes sense. I can see your issue. Me, I just refocus on who I need to and let whatever I'm using loose. I can see how a target lock might be useful. Sorry - just never encounter the problem before.

Same, I thought the combat on console was FPS style like the PC. On PC, in that situation, it would be on the player to reposition themselves so that there is nothing between themselves and the target, just like any other FPS game, since a common strategy in FPS is to have a more durable character place themselves between the enemy and a more squishy ally. Subverting that with a target lock on PC would be ridiculous.

But from the way OP is describing, it sounds like on console the player's crosshairs are being automatically shifted over to the other NPC if it's closer or something, so rather than being an FPS style crosshair it's like some sort of rubberbanding auto-target that is targetting the wrong thing. That sounds insane; I can't imagine playing that way. In that case, I can definitely understand why a change in how the auto-target works is in order.

Exactly

nastuug · July 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Right, I don't need the target lock at all for melee weapons, it's purely an issue with range. Even if that "tank enemy" steps in front of me, I should still be able to hit that healer with snipe considering that it fires at a 45 degree angle and would go over anyone in the way. That's how actual archers fire in large scale battles, otherwise they'd be hitting their own troops.

Well in 'Murica, we have advanced far beyond the bow and arrow. I suppose you want to go ahead and give us the ability to plop an AC-130 in Tamriel too, eh?

Just stop. Every post you keep dropping sounds dumber than the last...

I'll use smaller words next time, so it's easier for you to understand.

You're comparing a video game, which set in the TES world and has never ever had a hard targeting system, to how "actual archers fire in large scale battles." I.. I just don't even understand your silliness anymore.

jsalari · July 2015

The Consoles have a "soft" target lock. This means that if the reticle is close the the target, and not directly on the target, and you shoot an arrow or cast a spell or swing your sword it will hit the enemy.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

attacks would always hit that enemy instead of others that ran in between you and the target... it makes using ranged weapons much more frustrating.

To me this is how it would be IRL. People are always wanting more realistic physics or higher resolution graphics so the game looks "real" but when it comes to a mob walking in front of another and your arrow hits it your going to complain? To me that is the "I want the best unless I have to work for it attitude."

I think that adding a target lock would make the game easier. Adding a target marker that could help the group know which target to focus on would be nice but that is a topic for another thread.

Lynx7386 · July 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Right, I don't need the target lock at all for melee weapons, it's purely an issue with range. Even if that "tank enemy" steps in front of me, I should still be able to hit that healer with snipe considering that it fires at a 45 degree angle and would go over anyone in the way. That's how actual archers fire in large scale battles, otherwise they'd be hitting their own troops.

Well in 'Murica, we have advanced far beyond the bow and arrow. I suppose you want to go ahead and give us the ability to plop an AC-130 in Tamriel too, eh?

Just stop. Every post you keep dropping sounds dumber than the last...

I'll use smaller words next time, so it's easier for you to understand.

You're comparing a video game, which set in the TES world and has never ever had a hard targeting system, to how "actual archers fire in large scale battles." I.. I just don't even understand your silliness anymore.

It's a term coined suspension of disbelief. Some degree of believable realism greatly enhances even a fantasy or sci-fi setting.

nastuug · July 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Right, I don't need the target lock at all for melee weapons, it's purely an issue with range. Even if that "tank enemy" steps in front of me, I should still be able to hit that healer with snipe considering that it fires at a 45 degree angle and would go over anyone in the way. That's how actual archers fire in large scale battles, otherwise they'd be hitting their own troops.

Well in 'Murica, we have advanced far beyond the bow and arrow. I suppose you want to go ahead and give us the ability to plop an AC-130 in Tamriel too, eh?

Just stop. Every post you keep dropping sounds dumber than the last...

I'll use smaller words next time, so it's easier for you to understand.

You're comparing a video game, which set in the TES world and has never ever had a hard targeting system, to how "actual archers fire in large scale battles." I.. I just don't even understand your silliness anymore.

It's a term coined suspension of disbelief. Some degree of believable realism greatly enhances even a fantasy or sci-fi setting.

Right. Like when I swing my 2h sword and another player steps in front of my target...

Tolmos · July 2015

Thalmont wrote: »

I was just telling a friend yestorday I wanted old TES unguided aiming. Not a fan of how it's near impossible to miss with my bow, I want that challenge of having to actually aim. I completely understand why they gave bows a little auto aim feel but I would love an option to completely turn it off.

Yea, I think I see what you guys are saying now. So if you have 2 mobs, Mob A and Mob B: you target mob A and shoot shoot shoot. Suddenly, mob B steps between you two but not entirely. You step a little to the left to get past Mob B, crosshairs aimed perfect at A, and shoot your arrow. The arrow curves to the right and hits mob B, simply because he is closer. In any actual FPS game, that shot would have hit Mob A, but because of ESO's assisted targeting system, it's hitting Mob B.

IIRC: it's not a problem of lacking a clear shot on Mob A because Mob B is in the way, and simply wanting the system to have the arrow pass through B to hit A; it's a problem of having a clear shot on Mob A, taking the shot and having the arrow do in-flight yoga to Mob B.

Honestly, in that situation I would love the ability to turn the assisted targeting off. That would solve so many of those problems. Give an assisted aim similar to destiny, that sort of nudges your crosshairs appropriately but still fires in a straight line. This whole curving arrows thing has, for me at least, not been as helpful as one would think.

Egg_Death · July 2015

Are you completely forgetting that sorcerers exist in this game? If aiming a bow for an arched shot qualifies for indirect aim/fire, then pretty much any targetable spell should work the same way. I could spam Enless fury on the same target, and trying to use a group to block it would just give me more AoE damage when you drop below 20% health. Then you have teleport attacks, which should be able to target indirectly as well, right? Magic lets you explain about any problem away.

A simple explanation can be that your character cannot aim at a target he cannot see directly, even if you have the indirect firing capability. Not to mention that doing a real indirect fire at shorter ranges with a bow would be virtually impossible. You get weak autoaim but must suffer the problems associated with it as well as the benefits. Maybe if you had to do aiming like with lightning splash or other ranged AoE moves then this would make sense (I can cast that behind enemies), but then good luck hitting anyone that isn't stationary.

Samadhi · July 2015

Tolmos wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

If you target a mob and press the Tab key this box appears:

While pointing anywhere within the box, the triangles will be filled and the target locked on will take priority over other targets in the same general area.

If you move your crosshair outside of the box, you can target other mobs as usual, while keeping the location of the locked target marked:

The corner triangles being empty indicate the crosshair is not aiming within the box.

Have an add-on that turns my crosshair off if anyone is wondering why it is missing.

In my experience, this isn't entirely correct.

The triangles light up when you successfully have the target in your crosshairs. It isn't prioritizing that target, but simply telling you where the target is and that you are successfully aimed at it. If you accidentally target someone else, the triangles will stop being lit up until you correct your target.

http://www.elderscrollsonlineguides.com/tag/eso-tab-targeting/

Could easily be the case. Personally only ever use the tab feature to be able to attack Vampires while they Mist.

Fairly certain that the pictures are of the feature the OP is referring to with this thread though.

dlepi24 · July 2015

UTG_Zilla wrote: »

@Tolmos

100% correct.

How is it pvp when you have target lock and can skip past aggro/taunts? Hint- it isn't pvp.

Wut? Did you say.....PvP has taunts?

-Back on point-

I don't think he's asking for a hard tab target system. He just wants what PC shipped with day 1. A tab system that allows you to mark a target. I don't think he's saying he wants to be able to snipe through walls if he has him marked. He just wants to be able to mark a target and be able to follow that target through the fight if there's a large group of people. I do it all the time to vamps. The only problem I see with them putting tab targeting on console is that all the nightblades will then start ambushing through outpost doors in Cyrodiil.

Junglejim82 · July 2015

Callous2208 wrote: »

It still seems to me like your suggesting hard, old school tab target lock. Tank enemy is supposed to move into line of fire in front of healer. Just as the healer in the mob backs away or runs off. This is an intended mechanic. I still focus the healer by going around the tank or knocking him on his behind and charging the healer. Im not locked onto him but I keep him in front of me and attack. Maybe its a ranged thing, admittedly my experience with bows is lacking.

This is what I was referring to . The tank strategy you speak about is of course his job crowd /screen blocking as I've always called it isn't new it's defensive play to defend the target and give him a bit of breathing space to get healed I wouldn't want magic projectiles either going straight through the crowd just to be able keep him target locked while I'm moving to get L.o.s on him in a big crowd I've found it easy to lose him for that second or two . I wouldn't be wasting an attack on a tank when the healers under pressure . The box in the screenshot would be ideal preferably able to be held on your target but definitely not asking for projectiles to do L.o.s damage and carry through all targets

Edit. Meant to quote @Tolmos reply to me

badmojo · July 2015

Hilarious how many people are oblivious to this feature, but are still strongly against it. I guess they haven't played the game enough to know why exactly this is needed.

Imagine you're playing PVP in Cyrodiil, you have a group, and the enemy has a group, you are fighting in an open field, an enemy steps forward and starts hitting people in your group with attacks, everyone opens up on him and just before death he rolls back into his group. Without target lock, he survives, there's no way to push out and hit him with any attacks, because his friends will block them. With target lock, you can simply push out and keep hitting him despite him being surrounded by his full health friends.

Now, the discussion about weather or not this is a good thing for the game, is way more complex than "It makes it easier", mainly it's so complex because players have no collision. If we can roll dodge through a large pack of players, something needs to be able to counter that "ability", or else groups would become extremely overpowered.

Basically, we need target lock because players can exploit the lack of player collisions.

Dredlord · July 2015

NO thank you, please do not bring target lock to consoles.

If you want target lock go play PC...

If you want addons go play PC...

If you want to use macros go play PC...

if you want to cheat or play with cheaters go play PC...

kthnxbye

mrskinskull · July 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

On pc we could lock onto a target, and attacks would always hit that enemy instead of others that ran in between you and the target. It appears this feature was not in the console edition of the game, at least not on ps4, and it makes using ranged weapons much more frustrating.

Yeah I love to agro everything in my vicinity. But for those of you who aren't suicidal newbs like me, I could see the benefit of a target lock. Lol. This has gotten me killed so many times in PvP.

badmojo · July 2015

Dredlord wrote: »

NO thank you, please do not bring target lock to consoles.

If you want target lock go play PC...

If you want addons go play PC...

If you want to use macros go play PC...

if you want to cheat or play with cheaters go play PC...

kthnxbye

Have you played PVP yet?

ZOS_RichLambert · July 2015

/lurk

Lynx7386 · July 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

/lurk

Orly?

Dredlord · July 2015

badmojo wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

NO thank you, please do not bring target lock to consoles.

If you want target lock go play PC...

If you want addons go play PC...

If you want to use macros go play PC...

if you want to cheat or play with cheaters go play PC...

kthnxbye

Have you played PVP yet?

constantly, do you even lift?

Tennetty · July 2015

That defeats the purpose of the style of play that the elder scrolls are known for...

KingKush · July 2015

With all the other issues, target lock is the last thing we need.

jsalari · July 2015

badmojo wrote: »

Now, the discussion about weather or not this is a good thing for the game, is way more complex than "It makes it easier", mainly it's so complex because players have no collision. If we can roll dodge through a large pack of players, something needs to be able to counter that "ability", or else groups would become extremely overpowered.

Basically, we need target lock because players can exploit the lack of player collisions.

So what you are saying that instead of adding target lock they can just add player collision and you would OK with it?

badmojo wrote: »

Imagine you're playing PVP in Cyrodiil, you have a group, and the enemy has a group, you are fighting in an open field, an enemy steps forward and starts hitting people in your group with attacks, everyone opens up on him and just before death he rolls back into his group.

I have not played PVP in ESOTU yet but I have played many "traditional" MMO's such as EQ, WoW, Rift, etc, and all of them have target lock or tab targeting. Some of the games even have some type of player collision system in play. My point is that in those games if the opposing groups targets the healer the rest of the group can not protect the healer unless they are able to "taunt" the attackers way. Usually the healer dies withing just a few moments then the group dies.

In ESOTU the group can and should be allowed to step in front of the healer to protect him/her, to increase the chance the entire group will survive the encounter.

I play ESOTU because it is different and not like the others. Perhaps the better way of looking at ESOTU is that it is the "baby" of a FPS and old school MMO lol. Easier is not always better.