VR14 players have an unfair advantage in PvP?

NovaMarx · June 2015

PREACH!!!!

Though I can somewhat understand peoples frustration, depending on what your expectations are when buying/playing a "new" game, but here's how I see it:
Coming into the game on consoles is no different than someone buying the game now for PC. In both cases you enter a world full of Veterans. Is it unfair to new PC players then too?
The V14s on console are legit, they just played on PC first. Only difference.

(Note: I am PC all the way. This topic just gets under my skin. Just play the game already! Quest, grind, level up like the rest of us. Spend less time whining + More time playing = Better experience/advantage.)

bertenburnyb16_ESO · June 2015

attachment.php?attachmentid=248100&d=1382122353

UrQuan · June 2015

I don't really PVP at all, but I have spent a bunch of time in Cyrodiil doing PVE. Most of that time has been on characters in the VR1-7 range (my 2 highest level characters are VR9, and I've been concentrating on PVE zones with them lately).

During the time I've spent in Cyrodiil it has not been uncommon for me to come across an enemy player and end up in a one-on-one duel, often with a VR14. I'd say I've probably won about 1/3 of those one-on-one battles against enemy VR14s. If I can have a decent chance against VR14s at a significantly lower level than them, then someone who's actually good at PVP shouldn't be overly concerned with the level difference.

I mean, I'm not going to sit here and try to pretend that a VR14 doesn't have an advantage over a lower level VR character: they do. The advantage isn't as overwhelming as a lot of people like to believe though.

Aeradon · June 2015

I've known players who levelled from 10-VR12 in Cyrodiil alone, and that was before battle levelling gets any buff. Seriously don't see the issue here.

Ethona · June 2015

Valrien wrote: »

Why does everyone assume that a "kid" (a young person) is always an entitled noob who wants everything handed to them? I'm 14 and I can proudly say that I hit VR14 and got all the gear and skills I needed and worked hard for it.

I'm guessing that the use of "kid" is their way of saying "immature entitlement crying as does a baby." It's not so much aim at the age of a person, such as you or I or anyone else. Congrats on your hard work.

--- --- ========== --- ---
I agree with the OP 9999%

HaldaAinur · June 2015

Just add a few more servers say: one for vr1-vr5 another for vr6-vr10 and so on, so at least people will be matched on a somewhat consistent scale, so they have a chance to fight properly. And by fight properly I mean not die instantaneously when most vet PVP servers are flooded with vr14s. Don't get me wrong, they earned it, but adding a level based server or two would just help level the playing field for those who want it.

Jaiden · June 2015

drogon1 wrote: »

Bleh, talk about a straw man. Nobody disagrees that higher levelers with better gear shouldn't have an advantage because of it. It's a question of balance and how much.

Every vet - regardless or gear and level - pvp's in the same playground. If lower level ungeared folks are completely roflstomped, they'll cease to play. All I see here is someone - probably a kid himself - whining about his own entitlement to roflstomp others who have not put in the same time he has into this video game. That the OP touts his PvE accomplishments as support is sillier still.

The issue is balance. Inequalities are a given, but the aim should be that everyone can have fun pvp'ing, from the min/maxers to the casual. Rants like the OP's offer nothing useful to anyone.

By this mentality, I should be able to complete all vet level quests, DSA, Trials, and dungeons at lvl 1 because "balance". Definition of balance: a condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions. So nightblades vs sorcs, Dk's vs Temps, Temps vs Sorcs, etc etc.......this is where balance should focus. NOT lvl 10 vs V14. I agree with OP, entitlement and easymode nowadays.

I'm like 250k AP away from Vigor after grinding like crazy. I know in the next patch it'll be reduced to alliance rank 5 but i want to get it before then because i appreciate stuff when i've worked hard for it. Same with PvP. You grind CP, skill points, gold, AP, gear to be competitive. If you came across a v12 mob in a pve zone and you're V1, chances are you'll get roflestomped. Why not PvP?

If you want to be awesomeballs right off the bat, go to the PTS and roll a toon there to get the boosted V14 with all yellow gear and eleventy billion different skills and CP.

MrBeatDown · June 2015

As a V14 Dk, All I can say is, yes, they are at a Huge disadvantage with lower cp low level vet characters. I am not complaining about the power of my PvP character. I Love my Dk. He can stomp @$$ really good and is tanky as hell. Newcomers Don't stand a chance against someone like me. I think the problem is, a lot of these new pvp'rs don't have proper access to all the important information about PvP mechanics and how to build a character for it. I have had to research several web pages on character builds to understand how people were PvP ing (because i had took a 9 month break) and I eventually put it all together and designed my own magick based Imperial Dk with fire damage. I think that there should be a page for information on how the mechanics for this game are "supposed" to work for PvP and PvE. The V14 with 350 cp is going to beat up the V14 with 50 cp. But it can be delayed and you can sustain to last longer if you understand what skills, and traits to use on gear and how to sustain while fighting.

If you want to PvP in this game, You have to farm information about pvp and piece it together like a puzzle, and it shouldn't be like that. All the information should be on this sight for everyone to see. Its like my favorite old time classic D2LOD. They ran (and its still up) The Arreat Summit to teach players how to play the game. And as complicated as this game is for newcomers, I think we should have something very similar to it for this game. It would cut out a lot of the headache of searching for information about how this game is "suppose" to work.

Great game though, Im enjoying being back and whipping @$$ in cyrodiil.

Hiero_Glyph · June 2015

Lenikus wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Seriously, what have these players earned when a file is copied? Fair is fair and a level advantage should be earned, not bought.

Oh but they DID earn those levels, it was just not in a peasant's tool.

Now did they really earn a duplicate account? Did they work twice as hard for it? Are their items now worth half as much? If these characters were stripped of all possessions, set to vr1 and given 10k gold then you might have an argument for earning their way. As it stands now they were gifted duplicate accounts by ZoS.

EDIT: For the record, playing a game at release should not put you at a disadvantage.

EDIT_2: It would be very different if the account was permanently transferred and not just copied as well. I think a lot of players would think long and hard about where they wanted to play with what they earned. See the difference now? Your efforts would not be doubled and instead you would only be getting what you actually earned.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · June 2015

I am a VR14 on Console, PS4, and I do kill alot of people in PvP but...and here it comes,

I take advantage of situations. I use my Nightblade, Kotaro as a Ganker, he is not frontline defense, he hides in the Shadows waiting for the enemy to make mistakes. Then when an opportunity arises he strikes.

Recently I got rofl-stomped by a group 5-15 of the enemy when I become visable while ganking someone. I don't complain about it, they are using smart tactics, they are teaming up and they set a trap for me, good on the enemy for thinking and taking initiative.

And the enemy does get battle leveled in PvP, so it's not like i'm killing kittens or baby lizards..

and When I played in the past my team and I got owned plenty of times in Cyrodiil, I try to learn from each encounter, what works, what doesn't.. if the enemy is more powerful and what his class is and how to defeat them, their strengths and weaknesses..

Not to fall for traps even though I sometimes do and sometimes don't..

Like a couple enemies were riding on horseback and I ganked the last one, he rezzed back at his keep, and I saw the 2nd to last enemy turn around, get off his horse and go into sneak, then the guy I just killed was riding back on his horse knowing full well I was there, but now he had back up, I knew he did, he thought I didn't know but I did so I placed Piercing mark on him, he got off his horse and tried to sneak and got behind a tree and I knew his buddy or buddies were close by, I came in from behind where I saw his trap laying buddy went into sneak, piercing mark was almost timed out, I reapplied it to horse boy.. when I got close enough but not too close, bam I dropped a detection potion..

Yup, I dropped the detection potion, there were two in sneak and my friend with the piercing mark, they must have seen their sneak eyes open and bugged out because they all started looking for me and trying to get away.. I backed away a bit and prepared for battle, I buffed myself and then told the other guys I was with to engage...

oh wait, yes you are correct, I was alone in the beginning but I was wasting time with the Piercing Mark and stalking these trap layers to have my guys reach me and set up a counter trap.. it's a chess match, or otherwise known as combat tactics..

We engaged, they died, I hoped they learned something, see as my old Guildmaster Kazz used to say, "We are not here to kill them, we are here to educate the enemy.."

Truer words have never been spoken..

HairyFairy · June 2015

What I am seeing so far, is no one is also understanding that PVP is, in this game, end game content. Meant for max levels, yes you can start in it right at lvl 10 all the way if you want. But REMEMBER ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

HairyFairy · June 2015

I also agree with a lot of things, perhaps they should make more campaigns, and have more separation ie: non-vet campaign, VR1-VR5 campaign, VR6-VR10, VR11-VR14. Just an idea, but I just don't want to see everything leveled out, equal. Then there's not much incentive anymore.

HairyFairy · June 2015

Ethona wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Why does everyone assume that a "kid" (a young person) is always an entitled noob who wants everything handed to them? I'm 14 and I can proudly say that I hit VR14 and got all the gear and skills I needed and worked hard for it.

I'm guessing that the use of "kid" is their way of saying "immature entitlement crying as does a baby." It's not so much aim at the age of a person, such as you or I or anyone else. Congrats on your hard work.

--- --- ========== --- ---
I agree with the OP 9999%

Thank you for realizing this, you are an intelligent person.

LadyDestiny · June 2015

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Account transfers ruined the console balance so ZoS could sell a few more copies of the game. I agree that there should be a level advantage but disagree in that console transfers have not earned their characters on PS4 and XB1. It's p2w in every sense of the word since vr14 players are not legit on consoles. Seriously, what have these players earned when a file is copied? Fair is fair and a level advantage should be earned, not bought.

Sounds like you got roll stomped or something. You know not all transfers are out to be a big advantage over everyone else. I for one have not even stepped foot in Cyrodiil with my VR14 since launch. Not even trying to fast grind cp's so I have that "unfair advantage" you seem worried about. I have helped out as many new players as I can when they ask for help, providing it is within my means. Don't judge all of us the same please. My husband and I transfered to play with our son who just got the game for the first time on xbox. Your idea of pc transfer players ruining console is invalid. Not legit......lmfao. We seem legit enough when your all crying for gear, gold, bites or whatever.....

Cagro · June 2015

I do not mind people who play for long hours to have some minor advantage but good players that can only play an hour or two a day get frustrated when they fall too back behind.

Hiero_Glyph · June 2015

Personally, if ZoS removes vet ranks and scales player level it will go a long way in making PvP viable yet challenging. The maxed players will still have far more customized builds but won't roflstomp lower level players, especially if the time-to-kill is actually increased. PvP should be about skill, strength of builds and quality of gear; level only enables these conditions. Having to overcome all of those factors in addition to level is a bit excessive, even if it was earned. I think ZoS is on the right track but the softcap removal only makes the level advantage all the worse (not to mention it hurts hybrid builds).

ContraTempo · June 2015

HairyFairy wrote: »

You need to know, that you will be at a disadvantage until max level in ANY game, and it makes sense to be at one, because otherwise what is the point of getting to max level, if not to have an advantage and a sense of placement above everyone lower than you.

Sure. But by the same logic, don't *** and moan when a lot of lower level players hide until they can get in one good shot on you (while you are fighting another higher level character) and then disappear back into stealth. Call it ganking or whatever but that and throwing healing/shields are the only practical tactics a lower level character has against a high level character.

cabbagechest · June 2015

I fully expect to get curbstomped until I get VR14 and my gear. It's just the nature of the beast and has been in pretty much every MMO I've ever played.

I will say, though, that sometimes level-restricted PvP areas can be a blast. Back in my DAoC days, when I wasn't walking back and forth to the server uphill both ways, some of the best times I had were in the low level battlegrounds. Have you ever seen a grade school soccer match where the whole game instantly devolves into a 20-person kicking tornado of mayhem that follows the ball around? Well the lowbie battlegrounds were pretty much like that. No uber end-game gear. Little strategy. Lots of bloodshed. Maybe ESO could use something like that.

Hiero_Glyph · June 2015

LadyDestiny wrote: »

Sounds like you got roll stomped or something. You know not all transfers are out to be a big advantage over everyone else. I for one have not even stepped foot in Cyrodiil with my VR14 since launch. Not even trying to fast grind cp's so I have that "unfair advantage" you seem worried about. I have helped out as many new players as I can when they ask for help, providing it is within my means. Don't judge all of us the same please. My husband and I transfered to play with our son who just got the game for the first time on xbox. Your idea of pc transfer players ruining console is invalid. Not legit......lmfao. We seem legit enough when your all crying for gear, gold, bites or whatever.....

It was a bad idea from the start. Giving any select group over 12 months of advantage is nearly insurmountable. It has nothing to do with my experience and everything about the quality of the gameplay. Again, the new player experience is diminished when high level players are involved from the start. You are also doing you son a disservice unless you started new characters with him. Also, I'm not judging, just making general observations based on the facts. Don't even get me started on how the player economy will be affected by the select availability of Nirn items. The PC transfer was really a money grab by ZoS and only hurts the natural growth of the console communities.

F7sus4 · June 2015

Pchela wrote: »

Damn whiny kids, get off my lawn. Back in our days, we worked hard to level our characters. Walked 50 miles to the nearest quest hub because not everyone could afford a horse, wore homespun armor of health in mismatched levels, and sometimes not even enough potions to go 'round the group, so some had to go without.

This man here deserves more than just 8 Awesomes.

J2JMC · June 2015

LadyDestiny wrote: »

Sounds like you got roll stomped or something. You know not all transfers are out to be a big advantage over everyone else. I for one have not even stepped foot in Cyrodiil with my VR14 since launch. Not even trying to fast grind cp's so I have that "unfair advantage" you seem worried about. I have helped out as many new players as I can when they ask for help, providing it is within my means. Don't judge all of us the same please. My husband and I transfered to play with our son who just got the game for the first time on xbox. Your idea of pc transfer players ruining console is invalid. Not legit......lmfao. We seem legit enough when your all crying for gear, gold, bites or whatever.....

Asks to not be generalized. Proceeds to generalize. GGwp (Also who cries for gear? With the current guild trading system and relatively fast leveling, all non-vet gear seems like it's not worth going out of your way to get imo.)

Accounts should have been transferred not copied. Solves the problem easy.

As for op, if pvp was for endgame only it wouldn't be available at level 10. It would be available at endgame like all of the other endgame content.

That being said, I'm torn as I believe vr14 should, with decent gear, have advantages against lower level players. I also think battle leveling is stupid. I've been lvl 48 for a week and change because I hate the thought of possibly being weaker when I'm a vet due to battle leveling. However, since this isn't tab target fighting, I believe players utilizing mechanics appropriately shouldn't get boned by stats.

More campaigns, which seems like the best solution to appease all parties, isn't even a good solution because I guarantee less than a week after it's implementation vr14's would "whine" about not having enough people to stomp on, which would be a fair complaint.

Hiero_Glyph · June 2015

J2JMC wrote: »

Accounts should have been transferred not copied. Solves the problem easy.

This would have solved everything as it was originally intended to offset the console delay, not to reward PC players who already purchased the game.

AdamBourke · July 2015

Zusia211 wrote: »

Is it wrong to dislike playing with higher level players cause they beat you to quick? If every game I played PvP had me against VR rank people then I would just ignore the PvP because until I hit similar rank it will just be annoying for me.

I don't know what level you are - but this isn't so bad in non-veteran. :-)

KatzMainTank · July 2015

notimetocare wrote: »

Having pvp be v1-14 is an issue when there is a power difference based on lvled and, by extension, gear. Even battle leveled, a well geared v14 is going to have an advantage over a v1. Leaves only a few reasons you and so many others complain: You feel you are entitled to be stronger (this matches the logic of @SURxR3AL and @KatzMainTank), your do not understand the issues inherent in grouping people of different levels and the idea of balance in a game, or you simply just like to complain like you say lower vet ranks do.

***? Do you even PvP bruh? Seriously.

The "something to look forward to" translates to the gear, stats, & customization I have to look forward to. The power that ONLY comes through grinding mats, PvP pots & points, and refining of combat skills along the way. In other words when somebody says that they can't wait to get to V-14 doesn't mean that they can wait to pop 14, port to Cyro and roll face on everyone. It means that they have more game to look forward to, more opportunities to enjoy the game after current end-game, and a new ocean of possibilities to dip their toes in.

If you built your v-14 with an emphasis on maximal PvP performance then you deserve maximal performance. You get out of it what you put into it. If 1-10 are initiations as you say then so be it. Catering to people in an attempt to make the field of play even has been the downfall of MANY multiplayers, especially those with extensive PvP content. Yes, there is already a buff to lowbies, but by the time they hit the dip you speak of they've had PLENTY of time and experience to come to a conclusion on how their build should function in PvP. Are they solo? Grouped? Stealth? CC oriented? Burst damage? Magicka based? Skooma dependent?

In the end, yes, everyone is entitled to receive their due! Their are already ways to cope with said "misgrouping" of levels through campaign selection, Vets - nonVet - Any. I've seen mobs of 20s and under do work, just as I've seen a single v-14 take out a hefty group of people. Eventually people catch on where they fit in on the battlefield. Eventually everyone tests their mettle at one point or another. Those who have researched or practiced their rotations and have a firm grip on the meta move on to become these so called "OP v-14s with who don't deserve their stats," and some go back to the drawing board. That's how it is and that's how it should be.