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Why are these incremental patches so gigantic?
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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I have to use my neighbors wifi to download because Ive already used my limit downloading minor patches for ESO? This latest one if I am not mistaken was over 6 gigs. A lot of entire games are not that big. Why is it every time any minor change is made we are forced to download so much?
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Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's the way the files are compartmentalized. If a file is 100M and need a 2M update, the whole 100M file needs to be replaced, not just the 2 M part. So it adds up fast.0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Because someone at ZOS decided that having 0.5 GB resource files with no usable TOC would be a great way to store data.
So now instead of just updating things that have actually changed, they are downloading each of those huge data files as a whole even if only one byte inside the file has changed.
Edited by SirAndy on June 30, 2015 3:23AM6 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just killing me having to download all this. Also Im a little ways from my neighbor so I only get about 500k ish a second. Which normally is plenty fast enough until I try to play ESO then I get to spend hours trying to patch. At least a DVD I can start watching it while the rest downloads.0 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Think of it like this:
-You have a 60GB game, all files included.
-That game is split up into a bunch of different parts: 10gb for world maps/terrain, 10gb for character details, 10gb for skill trees, so on and so forth.
-Because of the way ZOS designed the game, they cannot send a one line of code change to players in an update.
So, if they change 1 skill in one skill tree, they cant just push out that little file - they have to have you re-download the entire 10gb skill tree file.
It's poor programming and poor optimization. Zenimax has great storytellers, great visual content designers, and great gameplay designers, but they have buggerall for competent programmers.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank4 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I still have 3 gigs to go its 11:30. I might as well forget playing tonight. They need to figure something out to make these patches smaller. They cant make us download 5-6 gigs every week.0 -
BigM✭✭✭✭✭
✭Think of it like this:
-You have a 60GB game, all files included.
-That game is split up into a bunch of different parts: 10gb for world maps/terrain, 10gb for character details, 10gb for skill trees, so on and so forth.
-Because of the way ZOS designed the game, they cannot send a one line of code change to players in an update.
So, if they change 1 skill in one skill tree, they cant just push out that little file - they have to have you re-download the entire 10gb skill tree file.
It's poor programming and poor optimization. Zenimax has great storytellers, great visual content designers, and great gameplay designers, but they have buggerall for competent programmers.
That is what happens when you outsource work.“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
― Stephen Hawking0 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭I thought it was all the subliminal *BUY JUNK IN THE CROWN STORE NAO!!!1" messages.1 -
nine9six✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »I still have 3 gigs to go its 11:30. I might as well forget playing tonight. They need to figure something out to make these patches smaller. They cant make us download 5-6 gigs every week.
This question has been asked 100's of times.
Are you seriously on here complaining about not being able to play tonight due to the slow speeds of your not-so-close neighbors WiFi, from whom you're leeching because you've already used-up your allotted data cap?
Seriously?Edited by nine9six on June 30, 2015 5:07AMWake up, we're here. Why are you shaking? Are you ok? Wake up...1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »I still have 3 gigs to go its 11:30. I might as well forget playing tonight. They need to figure something out to make these patches smaller. They cant make us download 5-6 gigs every week.
This question has been asked 100's of times.
Are you seriously on here complaining about not being able to play tonight due to the slow speeds of your not-so-close neighbors WiFi, from whom you're leeching because you've already used-up your allotted data cap?
Seriously?
Yes seriously. My neighbor can afford the unlimited plan. Fact is most games i get arent as big as this minor patch. There is no reason for this. I play other games patches that add massive amount of stuff are a gig maybe. This one even minor patches are 5-6 gigs. They need to work on it because after looking around and getting some messages its even worse on the consoles right now with 15 gig patches weekly.1 -
Cry_Wolfe✭✭✭At least you aren't on PC, i've reinstalled the game about 5 or 6 times 4 times at the prompt of the launcher to "Fix" issues with the previous install.
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Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Think of it like this:
-You have a 60GB game, all files included.
-That game is split up into a bunch of different parts: 10gb for world maps/terrain, 10gb for character details, 10gb for skill trees, so on and so forth.
-Because of the way ZOS designed the game, they cannot send a one line of code change to players in an update.
So, if they change 1 skill in one skill tree, they cant just push out that little file - they have to have you re-download the entire 10gb skill tree file.
It's poor programming and poor optimization. Zenimax has great storytellers, great visual content designers, and great gameplay designers, but they have buggerall for competent programmers.
That is what happens when you outsource work.
You don't need to outsource to develop bad.
(Developer since the early 90s here).Edited by Vahrokh on June 30, 2015 6:53AMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
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Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
Majic✭✭✭✭✭The latest patch is larger than usual because it includes many audio improvements and polish, according to ZOS.
PC/Mac Patch Notes v2.0.12ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited v2.0.12 is an incremental patch that includes many audio improvements and polish. Due to this, the size of the patch will be significantly larger than normal at approximately 5GB for English, 6.5GB for German, and 7.4GB for French. In addition, we’re also adding battle leveled consumables, which you can read more about below, and a handful of fixes to outstanding issues.
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And verily, verily, spaketh the Lord: "Error <<1>>"0 -
stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭You don't need to outsource to develop bad.
(Developer since the early 90s here).
True. I don't work in game programming, but I know a lot of people at various levels in the business, mostly former students of mine who tend to speak very freely about their love-hate relationship with their jobs. It seems to boil down to a structural problem. Game programmers are paid considerably less than what most "real" developers earn, and the business in general is still stuck in 1990's style coding practices. Many of the programmers are still remarkably undisciplined, and management seems to allow that, even encourage it. Quality assurance, testing and code documentation are notably less developed and receive less attention than they ought to. Even web development, which used to be an outpost for old school hacker mentality among programmers, is now growing up, but games programming seems sadly unwilling to be brought into the 21st century, despite its deep involvement with modern hardware and high-performance software for simulation and graphics.
This situation is not going to last, but the industry probably needs to paint themselves into a corner before they realize how badly equipped they are to deal with modern, complex software development.
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jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Larger than normal? The last patch was bigger than this one. Its hardly larger than normal. Its just normal.0 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭You guys realize this isn't bad design, right? Compressing everything into compartmentalized files, though big, prevents people from being able to easily mod the client to do things ZOS doesn't want done.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Having to download the entire game basically every minor patch is bad design.0 -
MCMancub✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Having to download the entire game basically every minor patch is bad design.
Yesterday's patch was 1/16 of the whole game. If all we're going to do is exaggerate in this thread and act like getting 50 Mbps down in nearly all locations isn't possible now, then have fun.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Having to download the entire game basically every minor patch is bad design.
Yesterday's patch was 1/16 of the whole game. If all we're going to do is exaggerate in this thread and act like getting 50 Mbps down in nearly all locations isn't possible now, then have fun.
Not everyone is in an area where they can just download 6-7 gigs every week. Some of us have caps. Just because fast internet is available someplaces does not excuse really bad design. I play other MMOs (lotro for example) who let you play while you finish downloading and the while game directory isnt 7 gigs.
SWTOR same thing. It has everything basically this game has. They really need to work on the size of these patches. You can bring up all the irrelevant things you want the fact is its poor design. They need to figure out how to manage to patch files without making you redownload everything every monday.Edited by jamesharv2005ub17_ESO on June 30, 2015 4:37PM1 -
Arkadius✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Having to download the entire game basically every minor patch is bad design.
Yesterday's patch was 1/16 of the whole game. If all we're going to do is exaggerate in this thread and act like getting 50 Mbps down in nearly all locations isn't possible now, then have fun.
You, of course, have been to nearly all locations to know it's true what you're saying.Edited by Arkadius on June 30, 2015 4:39PM0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
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@MCMancubYou guys realize this isn't bad design, right? Compressing everything into compartmentalized files, though big, prevents people from being able to easily mod the client to do things ZOS doesn't want done.
No, it doesn't. Anyone with a zlib library can open the ZOS data files and extract the content within. It's that easy ...
However, not having a TOC with pointers inside the data file is just plain stupid. It means if you have to get to asset 3000 within the large data file, you have to read all previous 2999 assets first since you don't know where asset 3000 starts within the large file.
Worst design decision ever ...
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Harming✭✭✭I get 1.5 Meg's down from *** ATT uverse. And it's the only internet avalible to my area, aside from dial up (yeah that still exists). So no. 50 Meg's is definetly not avalible everywhere, and yes the massive downloads are a pain in the ass, it takes 12-20ish hours for me to download every times there's a patch.0
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BalgusFlinn✭✭✭This will continue to be a complaint EVERY patch until its fixed. I check after every patch to make sure there is a complaint thread. If there isn't I will start one.
It's absolutely ridiculous to patch a game this way. In the end this is what will drive me away from this game. I am only 3 patches in and totally sick of it.3 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree it kinds of stinks that ZoS haven't though about people in developing countries.Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!0 -
BigM✭✭✭✭✭
✭BalgusFlinn wrote: »This will continue to be a complaint EVERY patch until its fixed. I check after every patch to make sure there is a complaint thread. If there isn't I will start one.
It's absolutely ridiculous to patch a game this way. In the end this is what will drive me away from this game. I am only 3 patches in and totally sick of it.
Only way to fix it is to recode everything from scratch. Not going to happen.“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
― Stephen Hawking0 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Developing countries? I live in Michigan lol.
I'm so sorry to hear that! :P
Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!1 -
Harming✭✭✭Yeah I'm from Ohio with crap internet. Basicly if your not in a big city or close you get *** on.0
