VR14 players have an unfair advantage in PvP?

HairyFairy · June 2015

Is it just me, or is anyone else sick of hearing about this?

I don't understand at all why @ZOS thinks that level 10-50 needs to be balanced out.
I don't understand at all why VR1-VR10 players cry so much about being at a disadvantage compared to VR14.

I mean here's how I see it!

I have reached VR14, the highest level. I have grinded, and grinded to get the gold, to get the materials, to get the gear! that makes me an outstanding, and competitive player in Cyrodiil. I have done this. And if you haven't, than yes..obviously you will be at a major disadvantage and you kids are so damn used to having everything handed to you, that you just don't want to make all the effort yourselves.

Now @ZOS is all worried about you whiney little brats, and they just want you all to be happy and to shut up, so here they are making you battle levels now so you can feel like you're worthwhile in Cyrodiil, when you just aren't putting the time and effort in yourselves. (Being handed everything)

And now about the whiners that are VR1-VR10, and I say 1-10 because usually after that people aren't whining so much, to you people...what's the problem here?

I did every quest needed, all of Cadwell's quests, every zone, dungeons, crafting, and PvP, until I was VR14.

I worked to get it, and all you kids do is whine about it. Why do you whine so much? It makes no sense, really. I never cried to anyone while I was leveling up to VR14 because all that I cared about was getting to the max level so i could be competitive.

You need to know, that you will be at a disadvantage until max level in ANY game, and it makes sense to be at one, because otherwise what is the point of getting to max level, if not to have an advantage and a sense of placement above everyone lower than you.

So spend your time wiser, work harder, and get to VR14, and stop all of your damn whining!

Warraxx · June 2015

A-men!

Junipus · June 2015

I second that

Sighlynce · June 2015

Agree 100% . Let them earn their ranks, everyone before them did

.

KatzMainTank · June 2015

I agree with this, despite being two-shot by numerous v-14s in all rank campaigns. It gives me something to look forward to!

SURxR3AL · June 2015

Preach!!! I'm only VR2 and I understand the disadvantage...VR14 earned the right to own everyone...so if decided to stay out of PvP until iv hit VR5 then go back in try it again. So on and so forth. You got to put the time in to be good at it can't just assume your going to jump right in and be the best

Pchela · June 2015

Damn whiny kids, get off my lawn. Back in our days, we worked hard to level our characters. Walked 50 miles to the nearest quest hub because not everyone could afford a horse, wore homespun armor of health in mismatched levels, and sometimes not even enough potions to go 'round the group, so some had to go without.

drogon1 · June 2015

Bleh, talk about a straw man. Nobody disagrees that higher levelers with better gear shouldn't have an advantage because of it. It's a question of balance and how much.

Every vet - regardless or gear and level - pvp's in the same playground. If lower level ungeared folks are completely roflstomped, they'll cease to play. All I see here is someone - probably a kid himself - whining about his own entitlement to roflstomp others who have not put in the same time he has into this video game. That the OP touts his PvE accomplishments as support is sillier still.

The issue is balance. Inequalities are a given, but the aim should be that everyone can have fun pvp'ing, from the min/maxers to the casual. Rants like the OP's offer nothing useful to anyone.

SirAndy · June 2015

HairyFairy wrote: »

... cry ... kids ... whiney ... shut up... whiners ... whining ... kids ... whine ... whine ... cried ... whining ...

TL:DR all of your whining, L2P!

Ackwalan · June 2015

It's the 'everybody gets a trophy' mentality. People no longer know how to win with grace or lose with dignity.

Lenikus · June 2015

you know... I don't get the whole concern, as well..

Just give lowlies (50 or less) a whole ton of HP, that's it, let them go run wild and loose in the fields.. they'll be sure to have fun.
as for Vr1~13, jsut up their regen of Stamina a little (that's it), and the usual hp / stat / armor buffs. that'll give them the blocking rights of at least not getting one-shot'd by a crystal frag, (wich MOST Vr14 ALSO DO, when hit by another vr14)..
and the Vr14s will just get the usual cyro buffs, and done. Go and be OP, you grinder sonoavabitx.

Everyone's happy.

notimetocare · June 2015

As someone with 3 v14's I disagree completely. They have every right to dislike the disadvantage because ZOS has them placed with v14s. They do not have any other option to do pvp. Unlike 10-50 that have another option and/or get battle leveled in stats. 1-9 (pre v10 enchants/gear) are at a decent disadvantage and it sucks. Though v14 now, my dk could stand against v14s decently at v5/6, but many times it was just overpowered by stats.

The issue is you are just as entitled as you think they are. You are arrogantly pissy because some people prefer a game to be about skill as opposed to 'yay I out level you and now you die'. If in fact you need to have people that you outstat to win, you might as well just reroll or quit playing.

Having pvp be v1-14 is an issue when there is a power difference based on lvled and, by extension, gear. Even battle leveled, a well geared v14 is going to have an advantage over a v1. Leaves only a few reasons you and so many others complain: You feel you are entitled to be stronger (this matches the logic of @SURxR3AL and @KatzMainTank), your do not understand the issues inherent in grouping people of different levels and the idea of balance in a game, or you simply just like to complain like you say lower vet ranks do.

Really though, gain a bit of logic. PvP has population issues, fixing the stat discrepancy is a means to fix that. A battle leveled-v5 has a much better chance of fighting a v14 in a fun battle. I personally find it very dull running into low vet ranks now because I enjoy fighting not laughing as I roll over something. If you put the effort in, really put it in, not just grinding a bunch of mobs while listening to Katy Perry then you will still be at an advantage. If you just relied on level and gear, well sorry to say you have more problems than I can aid with.

Valrien · June 2015

Why does everyone assume that a "kid" (a young person) is always an entitled noob who wants everything handed to them? I'm 14 and I can proudly say that I hit VR14 and got all the gear and skills I needed and worked hard for it.

GreySix · June 2015

Do General Officers have an unfair advantage over privates?

seratin · June 2015

Entitlements aside, when you enter pvp you expect a certain level of balance to provide a fair playing field. If you're playing lol and you're a bronze facing a diamond, should the diamond start at max level with full gear simply because he's higher tier? Of course not, you have to draw the line somewhere, without some sense of balance pvp becomes pointless. You already have access to more combat options then a lower level, no reason to add stats into the mix.

Hiero_Glyph · June 2015

Account transfers ruined the console balance so ZoS could sell a few more copies of the game. I agree that there should be a level advantage but disagree in that console transfers have not earned their characters on PS4 and XB1. It's p2w in every sense of the word since vr14 players are not legit on consoles. Seriously, what have these players earned when a file is copied? Fair is fair and a level advantage should be earned, not bought.

Gamertaglemieux · June 2015

HairyFairy wrote: »

Is it just me, or is anyone else sick of hearing about this?

I don't understand at all why @ZOS thinks that level 10-50 needs to be balanced out.
I don't understand at all why VR1-VR10 players cry so much about being at a disadvantage compared to VR14.

I mean here's how I see it!

I have reached VR14, the highest level. I have grinded, and grinded to get the gold, to get the materials, to get the gear! that makes me an outstanding, and competitive player in Cyrodiil. I have done this. And if you haven't, than yes..obviously you will be at a major disadvantage and you kids are so damn used to having everything handed to you, that you just don't want to make all the effort yourselves.

Now @ZOS is all worried about you whiney little brats, and they just want you all to be happy and to shut up, so here they are making you battle levels now so you can feel like you're worthwhile in Cyrodiil, when you just aren't putting the time and effort in yourselves. (Being handed everything)

And now about the whiners that are VR1-VR10, and I say 1-10 because usually after that people aren't whining so much, to you people...what's the problem here?

I did every quest needed, all of Cadwell's quests, every zone, dungeons, crafting, and PvP, until I was VR14.

I worked to get it, and all you kids do is whine about it. Why do you whine so much? It makes no sense, really. I never cried to anyone while I was leveling up to VR14 because all that I cared about was getting to the max level so i could be competitive.

You need to know, that you will be at a disadvantage until max level in ANY game, and it makes sense to be at one, because otherwise what is the point of getting to max level, if not to have an advantage and a sense of placement above everyone lower than you.

So spend your time wiser, work harder, and get to VR14, and stop all of your damn whining!

Disclaimer, I am only a level 18 Nightblade.

I agree with this post. The fun, purpose, and meaning of any MMO is to level up your character. And doing so by earning it!

What is the sense of playing this game if everything is handed to you? Its pointless not only you, the game but the entire gaming community when it is all handed to you.

I am 148 hours played and only reason I am STILL playing is the game is incredibly fun AND I want to level up.

Zusia211 · June 2015

Is it wrong to dislike playing with higher level players cause they beat you to quick? If every game I played PvP had me against VR rank people then I would just ignore the PvP because until I hit similar rank it will just be annoying for me.

Lenikus · June 2015

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Seriously, what have these players earned when a file is copied? Fair is fair and a level advantage should be earned, not bought.

Oh but they DID earn those levels, it was just not in a peasant's tool.

SirAndy · June 2015

notimetocare wrote: »

You are arrogantly pissy because some people prefer a game to be about skill as opposed to 'yay I out level you and now you die'.

Wait, you actually want player skill to become part of how well one does in Cyrodiil?

That would eliminate most of the top 100 from the leaderboards ...

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · June 2015

Completely agree with the OP.

But I STILL enjoy the occasion whine.

I'm. So. CONFLICTED.

Btharrison · June 2015

I'm only lvl 44 and I agree with this. Anyways there are non-vet PvP you can play.
It only makes sense.
This isn't COD where you can hop on and, with the exception of a few guns/perks, you are more or less equal.
You have to work and grind to get to the top to be the best.
I would be very upset if any more "balancing" for low lvl players were to come into effect, unless it was clearly outlined in the campaign selection.
Vr14 should beat a lvl 50 and VR10 should be a good fight vs a Vr 1

Lord_Draevan · June 2015

The gap will be lessened soon (TM) by having Battle Level go from V1 up to V14.

From Brian Wheeler's "PVP Update, June 2015" thread:
Battle Leveling: The Battle Leveling system has been updated to include Veteran Ranks. Players that opt into Battle Leveling will be roughly equivalent in power to a VR14 player in moderate-quality gear.

Eejit1331 · June 2015

You think being low level is bad on the ps4? Try being a low level on the pc where 90% are v14..lol.. you console players have it made. On the PC, everyone was a threat. I believe we were ranked up to vr5, not vr10.

notimetocare · June 2015

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

The gap will be lessened soon (TM) by having Battle Level go from V1 up to V14.

From Brian Wheeler's "PVP Update, June 2015" thread:
Battle Leveling: The Battle Leveling system has been updated to include Veteran Ranks. Players that opt into Battle Leveling will be roughly equivalent in power to a VR14 player in moderate-quality gear.

Good point to bring up, if you like being weak because 'its how it is' turn off battle level. Im sure so many of you will.

Xjcon · June 2015

Lol at the long time vr14 being upset that new players are not as squish as they used to be....

notimetocare · June 2015

Eejit1331 wrote: »

You think being low level is bad on the ps4? Try being a low level on the pc where 90% are v14..lol.. you console players have it made. On the PC, everyone was a threat. I believe we were ranked up to vr5, not vr10.

v5 and then v12, but only if you were under vet rank. v1 and up do not battle level.

MrGhosty · June 2015

Good PvP will always straddle the line between granting the power to the most experienced/highest leveled players and giving the little guys a fighting chance. The trick is giving enough benefit to the players to make it worth reaching that higher point but not so much of an advantage that the people still climbing the ranks can't get in there and destroy themselves.

I see the OPs kind of statements a lot, they like to throw words around like entitlement blah blah but the key aspect that these folks seem to forget is that its the little guys that even give you something to do. If you create a situation where there is literally no benefit to them to bash their head against a brick wall they will leave. They might come back at vet14 but that can also be just as bad, they will either come back in with a pre-made build and do the same exact thing to those lil fellers silly enough to come in and play or they will come in and not understand the combat/skills/whatever and then come back and cry for nerfs or "fixes" and add to the problems.

You reached vet14, congratulations but just as those low level people aren't entitled to having all of your power and gear. You're not entitled to getting to absolutely destroy players who have no legitimate means of even putting up a fair fight. I too worked hard to get my vet14, especially so as I opted to take my time and enjoy the content and by the time I reached end levels all the grinds or other means of quickly leveling had been removed so I'm pleased with my achievement and I look forward to getting to "play with the big boys" but I would rather have a fair, fun fight than utterly wreck some poor fellow who has just wandered into cyrodiil expecting a balanced and fun environment.

Here's an idea, just a hint of a notion really, instead of berating and casting about labels; take the time out to climb down from that high horse and work with those players. If they're working on bad info, correct it. If they need some build or gear suggestions, let them benefit from your knowledge and skill. Better fighters at every level means a better fight for everyone, there is a reason one of the most competitive and long standing PvP types out there is arena multiplayer (everyone starts on the same stats/gear/etc) This isn't an Arena to be sure, but that doesn't mean we can't benefit from some of that knowledge in creating a better experience for all involved.

xaraan · June 2015

I do agree that you should have something to show for your hard work and not have everything "leveled" out equal making your hard work somewhat of a waste of time. But I think they would need to seperate campaigns out a bit more if they were really doing to go for no battle level (which they probably won't).

Lifix2k · June 2015

This won't be the first or the last MMO that has this circular debate. At the end of a day the game producers have to pick their stance and stick with it without wavering and people can stay on boat or jump off that boat. MMO's fail when they start wavering and constantly switching back and forth in their stance.

Personally I agree wholeheartedly with notimetocare, I prefer to win based on performing better at my class. However human nature is to want an unfair advantage in some way, shape or form and claim you are more skilled and deny or not perceive the unfair advantage you possessed to get where you are or achieve whatever accomplishment was achieved.

At the end of the day you are the sum of your parts; physical, intellectual and reactive. Some people push themselves through years of schooling just to get outperformed by someone with little to no education in comparison because we are who we are. Generally people that play video games and sink tremendous amounts of time into a specific game want that to reflect in their advantage so they can feel as if they are a better player. It's like those youtube videos where a player with literally all player advantages obtainable destroys a bunch of lower ranked players that have no idea what they are doing. That player actually thinks they are awesome and quickly dismisses the encounters with equally matched opponents where they got wrecked profusely. I listened to a guy talk about all his PS4 trophies and how it makes him a god in real life for an entire dungeon run the other day (I play PS4 and PC), the reality is completely jacked up logic is common place in games.

It is an argument with no real winner, just the parameters of the game and whom can do whatever necessary to meet those parameters. If the game means more time, money and grinding to give you an unfair advantage then those are the rules of the game

. I personally made another account to play on PS4 just because I wanted to play without mods or any of the other advantages a player can obtain by looking outside the built in tools of the game, however it back fires when you have no way at all to analyze your performance.

Lord_Draevan · June 2015

notimetocare wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

The gap will be lessened soon (TM) by having Battle Level go from V1 up to V14.

From Brian Wheeler's "PVP Update, June 2015" thread:
Battle Leveling: The Battle Leveling system has been updated to include Veteran Ranks. Players that opt into Battle Leveling will be roughly equivalent in power to a VR14 player in moderate-quality gear.

Good point to bring up, if you like being weak because 'its how it is' turn off battle level. Im sure so many of you will.

I'm sure most people under V14 will leave Battle Leveling on, regardless what they say on the forums ;P