Kingof green wrote: »

Let's be honest the chances of sexism to get into a zos game Is very, very unlikely, for a few reasons.
1. A good load of females work at zos and I'm sure most of em don't want sexism.
2. ZOS is quite Liberal and are afraid to 'offend' anyone
3. There's a good few people that play eso that's apart of the Feminist organisation and will lose it if there is a slight bit of sexism.
4. About 1/5 of ESO players can be very sensitive and emotionally motivated (cough) liberalism.
there are the main reasons why the game will never ad sexism plus I don't really think we need it in all fairness but it whould make the NPCs more human if some of them where sexist.

And racism..... We know there is racism among NPC to NPC but never towards the players as fair as I'm aware of but it would bring more of Elder scrolls taste to the game to have some people hate you because of your race. Like Morrowind and Skyrim. And homophobia? We don't really need that to.

My views and I mean this in all respect, don't take up as wrong

I think I just played through a mission about slavery. That made me think and consider but without talking about actual events. The pact forcing reconciliation among the dunmer and argonians could be likened to the rocky process of Rwandan reconciliation. Or at least walk a player into considering various social constructs in a fictional world.

Homelessness is in the game and a real world occurance. You prob didn't bat an eyelid at the beggars in the streets as you dart around from bank to blacksmith. It just helps inform the world.

Of course I'm not suggesting real sexism or classism but just a few reactive NPC comments to help flesh out the world.

Keep it light and engaging.

BlackEar wrote: »

Get out of here all you social justice warriors that cannot differentiate from real life and a video game. You should really go out more often.

By your logic, let us remove the violence! We have enough of it in the real world we don't need it in our games!

Many of the comments fail to recognize violence in games gives us an opportunity to consider and debate violence.

Why shouldn't other social matters be given the chance to be considered in a safe fictional manner?

mrskinskull wrote: »

I would love to have a homeless NPC who whose life gets slightly better with each donation from town to town.

Like rehabilitating an NPC. Classism could offer a wealth of stories.

I've wanted something like that since Oblivion. The ability to give a few pieces of gold and then see an NPC's life start to change for the better - or see them later using the gold to purchase skooma or whatever.

Quests that address isssues of race, alliance, or even drug abuse (there was Skooma cure quest in Skyrim) would be an immersive addition.

Just to be clear: most "feminists" I know don't want cotton candy video games, and that includes feminists who design video games. Maybe a few but they don't speak for all of us. Having someone question your ability because your female as part of quest would be both realistic and "immersive" (I know that's a dirty word), but it would be nice and satisfying to be given the chance to show them how wrong they are.

There is a difference between adding gender dialog because it's realistic and designing an entire video game where women are treated as eye candy or sex objects. IIRC there were gender differences in Morrowind and, I believe, Oblivion, too. Males and females got different gender "buffs", which was fine because, if you wanted to overcome that difference, you had a chance to do so. Or you could play to the difference.

In RL I'm pretty obviously Irish, meaning even if someone knows nothing about me and is meeting me for the first time, they get that I'm Irish. Do have any idea how many people in a given year comment on my heritage? Most are positive or just neutral, and it's okay. The point is: commenting on and reacting to race and national origin is part of our real lives.

I think this idea has merit but I doubt Zeni will go back and change the game up now.

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

mrskinskull wrote: »

I would love to have a homeless NPC who whose life gets slightly better with each donation from town to town.

Like rehabilitating an NPC. Classism could offer a wealth of stories.

I've wanted something like that since Oblivion. The ability to give a few pieces of gold and then see an NPC's life start to change for the better - or see them later using the gold to purchase skooma or whatever.

Quests that address isssues of race, alliance, or even drug abuse (there was Skooma cure quest in Skyrim) would be an immersive addition.

Just to be clear: most "feminists" I know don't want cotton candy video games, and that includes feminists who design video games. Maybe a few but they don't speak for all of us. Having someone question your ability because your female as part of quest would be both realistic and "immersive" (I know that's a dirty word), but it would be nice and satisfying to be given the chance to show them how wrong they are.

There is a difference between adding gender dialog because it's realistic and designing an entire video game where women are treated as eye candy or sex objects. IIRC there were gender differences in Morrowind and, I believe, Oblivion, too. Males and females got different gender "buffs", which was fine because, if you wanted to overcome that difference, you had a chance to do so. Or you could play to the difference.

In RL I'm pretty obviously Irish, meaning even if someone knows nothing about me and is meeting me for the first time, they get that I'm Irish. Do have any idea how many people in a given year comment on my heritage? Most are positive or just neutral, and it's okay. The point is: commenting on and reacting to race and national origin is part of our real lives.

I think this idea has merit but I doubt Zeni will go back and change the game up now.

That's the beauty of my suggestion. I am suggesting a few new generic NPCs sprinkled into the game with a check against your character for racial choice, gender, clothing choice, amount of money etc.
You could take it a step further and check against the character creation sliders.

Oh my what a large snout you have! Oh you are a tall one! Your mane is blonde, do blonde kajhit have more fun?

I dunno, obviously they can't go back an change the main quest logic but this kind of one off NPC conversation check could be written over a weekend. Longer if the writers really want to stretch their legs.

I think all of the traits you've mentioned - race, class, gender - should have unique dialogue every now and then. But racism, classim, and sexism is MUCH too strong a way to treat them. Recognising something, and marginalising someone over something, do not always have to go hand in hand.

Racism would be, at best.. tolerable. Keep in mind that while the races themselves may be fantasy, the sentiment itself is very real.
Classism would probably be okay, because its real-world analogues aren't very strong (people looking down on labourers as somehow being 'stupid' and/or 'failures' being the real-world equivalent).
Behaviour-based (eg Legerdemain) remarks would probably be okay, because they are based on your playtime, something your character has 'earned' through their skill trees.
Sexism should not be okay. It isn't a character's choice, and it has a real-world analogue. People have to put up with that stuff enough of the real world - and even in-game from other players. They don't need to face it from the NPCs, too.

As far as implementation, mentioning these things is fine: "I wouldn't expect a Templar to care what happens to the Mages Guild." "Oh, I'm sorry. I just assumed he was sending a human. I didn't realise you were an orc."

And there are some in there already, actually - start of EP, if you are one of the three EP races there is special dialogue asking about your own race, as well as the other two, with different dialogue depending on your own race.
In EP, you can come across an Argonian who will be particularly venomous if you are not also, Saxhleel (the race's 'real' name - 'Argonian' is the Cyrodillic way of saying 'from Argonia', a name they also gave).
In EP, you can come across a tribe of women who are upset with a male trader - expect some spitting if you also, are male.
In AD, I was livid, monstrously enraged, to come across a school and its blatantly inappropriate treatment of bosmer and khajiit. (You receive this also if you are either of these races.) I remained angry when the problem was 'resolved' because all we did was replace the leader (how? No one was successfully contacted!) so all the subordinates just 'suddenly became good'.
AD also has an instance of a Saxhleel tribe that is practically imprisoned, facing the possibility of deportation. Why? Because the Argonians are Pact now. The reason this tribe is not however, is that they refuse to work with the Dunmer, after facing enslavement - thus fleeing to Bosmer lands. This distinction, of course, matters absolutely diddly-squat to the Altmer, because they are not Altmer and therefore worthless.
DC is peppered with snark about the orcs (not playing one at the time, I don't know how much you may receive yourself.) - as well as the oft sexist and moronic comments from Darien.

And an entire chunk of content about characters being stalked? No. Just no. People who have faced REAL STALKERS do not want that kind of thing absolutely ANYWHERE in their game space.

snackrat wrote: »

Racism would be, at best.. tolerable. Keep in mind that while the races themselves may be fantasy, the sentiment itself is very real.

But what Cyrodiil? World war and mass death is A-okay?

I mean, why can't we all just get along?

Why is there so much killing in this game?!!!?!??!

We may be only killing imaginary beings represented by pixels but the sentiment itself of killing exists in the real world!

I want to be the first to suggest that this game be cleansed off all violence!!

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Try it in real life and say "I'm just role playing for immersion"

Report back results.

lol. hahahaa. lol. lol. right?

Now go stab someone with a 2H sword in real life and say the same thing. Report back results.

lololol. haha. omg lol

I'm so funny.

It's about power, and feeling like you have it.
Ultimately a lot of games are about power or accomplishment. Even when something defeats you, its for story's sake - and you get to pay them back. (People kept complaining about Dex from the Saints Row series for YEARS because it was one of the few times they didn't get to do so. They finally let you constantly kill his very soul in Hell.)

People enjoy killing mobs, they do not enjoy being killed by them.
People enjoy defeating other players, but they rant about 'overpowered' character is they are themselves defeated.
People latch onto the most effective elements and stats if they have them - but they QQ that they are unbalanced if they do not.

Recognising - and making comment on - race, sex, class, etc would all be fine if it were not about exerting power over them, which is what is being asked for.

I'm using my explorer's pack to the fullest, and I would love for my Nord in AD and High Elf in DC to be affected by that. Worse prices at vendors, comments, even an angry mob chasing me off or a quest giver who refuses to speak to me. Same for the positive side of it--I'm sure there are some Breton's who get "Feline Fever", etc....I was really hoping that my displaced character would stand out some in dialogue.
Speaking of npc's responding to your character appearance slider, I think there should be an achievement (with dye) for finding your doppleganger npc in the game (theoretically, I'm assuming all npc citizens' appearances are made from the same choices we are offered, meaning you could find one with all the same choices.)