Removing Former Emperor Buffs OR Creating Former Players?

ewhite106b16_ESO · June 2015

ZOS is making a really good decision removing the permanent emperor buffs. I"ve been in the game PVPing since launch, only took a couple of months off in the middle. The problem isn't the bonuses themselves....but the "emperor farming" caused by the former emperor buffs. Guilds making deals with other enemy/friendly guilds to pass the crown around so as many of their members as possible can get the bonus really makes PVP suck. ZOS already tried to address this problem in other ways over time, none of that worked.

Emperor buffs are NOT like champion points or other "achivements". This a PVP system that causes very negative effects (emperor farming) for gameplay and Cyrodil.....removing it makes good sense just like removing forward camps and mercenaries. It's unfortunate that players who got emperor legitimately are going to lose the former emperor buff, but the mechanic itself like others have said is directly responsible for contributing to a toxic, non-competitive PVP environment. There's other systems that directly reward time investment in PVP like end of campaign rewards (especially the top few players) and PVP ranks. Unlike those systems, IMO the permanent emepror buff rewarded players more for political connections and cutting deals with the enemy to flip the crown then time in PVP or skill.

Lithium Flower · June 2015

Get rid of Former Emperor passives, change the title to 'Farmer Emperor', remove the ridiculous Farmville <30 day campaigns and the Emperor mechanic altogether from Blackwater Blade as a minimum to counter the farming that's gone on in this one year.

Add the emperor passives back as Alliance Rank 35 or 40 buffs - far more meaningful than the farce the emperor system has devolved into currently.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · June 2015

They are actually named emperor buffs not former emp buffs. They should never have let people keep them after losing emperor status.

Publius_Scipio · June 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They are actually named emperor buffs not former emp buffs. They should never have let people keep them after losing emperor status.

Yup, like I said before, bad idea to have these buffs in the first place. However to be fair and honest I do know ZOS only had good intentions for the game and players when the idea came about in development.

But that's how MMOs work. You throw a bunch of things out there for thousands to play and you'll see what ends up working and what doesn't.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · June 2015

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They are actually named emperor buffs not former emp buffs. They should never have let people keep them after losing emperor status.

Yup, like I said before, bad idea to have these buffs in the first place. However to be fair and honest I do know ZOS only had good intentions for the game and players when the idea came about in development.

But that's how MMOs work. You throw a bunch of things out there for thousands to play and you'll see what ends up working and what doesn't.

Ah the innocence of new pvp devs haha.

Sanct16 · June 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

The former emperor buffs were far too powerful for something that requires more politics and free time than actual skill. I'm glad to see them gone. RIP we hardly knew ye.

Because Undaunted Passives and Champion Points require so much skill to get.................

ToRelax · June 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

The former emperor buffs were far too powerful for something that requires more politics and free time than actual skill. I'm glad to see them gone. RIP we hardly knew ye.

Because Undaunted Passives and Champion Points require so much skill to get.................

I see people bringing up the champion system in defense of former emp buffs all the time now.
I am still not sure why. Of course CP aren't a measure of skill and influence game balance very negatively.
Two bads don't make a good.

Tripwyr · June 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

The former emperor buffs were far too powerful for something that requires more politics and free time than actual skill. I'm glad to see them gone. RIP we hardly knew ye.

Because Undaunted Passives and Champion Points require so much skill to get.................

I see people bringing up the champion system in defense of former emp buffs all the time now.
I am still not sure why. Of course CP aren't a measure of skill and influence game balance very negatively.
Two bads don't make a good.

If anything, Champion Points help reinforce the argument for removing the Former Emperor buffs. Everybody argues that the Former Emperor buffs are meaningless, 2% is nothing, etc etc. Why then do people spend hours upon hours grinding champion points for the extra 0.2% magicka regen or 0.1% healing buff?

Alomar · June 2015

Just more catering to casuals who seem to be happy with no new pvp content since launch, removed pvp features, a dying pvp population, and ever increasing lag issues. Yet, let's remove a feature of the game that requires coordination and a ton of time to accomplish. All this cited exploiting, coordinating with other factions, etc. ends up being a small percent of the actual amount of players who worked for and grinded their way to emp.

There will always be small amounts of people who get the edge on others through exploitive or unfair means in every system that ever existed including in video games. Yet, let's not look to improve this feature and make it harder to get to prevent that small fraction of people from continueing to exploit this feature, let's just remove yet another feature from the ever barren and dying pvp system that is ESO.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · June 2015

Got news for you guys casuals make up the majority of people playing this game. So when they "cater to casuals" it makes a LOT of sense considering they are the majority of the money coming in.

x2012ajipreub18_ESO · June 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Got news for you guys casuals make up the majority of people playing this game. So when they "cater to casuals" it makes a LOT of sense considering they are the majority of the money coming in.

This game wasn't made for hard core players. Why they haven't moved on to an actual competitive game is beyond me. Actually its not because I'm sure a game that they can't win by playing 24 hours a day and relies only on player skill is a pretty scary concept.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · June 2015

x2012ajipreub18_ESO wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Got news for you guys casuals make up the majority of people playing this game. So when they "cater to casuals" it makes a LOT of sense considering they are the majority of the money coming in.

This game wasn't made for hard core players. Why they haven't moved on to an actual competitive game is beyond me. Actually its not because I'm sure a game that they can't win by playing 24 hours a day and relies only on player skill is a pretty scary concept.

They want easy targets thats why. If you go to those hardcore pvp games there are tons of people who are...well..hardcore. What they want is to be able to gank low levels or less skilled players. If they were really skilled in pvp they would not be playing ESO. They would be playing one of the games they say they want ESO to be.

Akavir_Sentinel · June 2015

Lionxoft · June 2015

It's a buff where the method of obtaining it can be abused. 20k-40k defense ticks from a 10 minute or less defense tick on a near empty campaign. They can't fix the way AP is earned in groups and they don't have a sure fire way to punish those that abuse the scoring system. So instead of fixing both they ended up removing the end goal.

The system sees more abuse than anything and I'm sure that's why it's being removed.

Kupoking · June 2015

No OP forget it. It was abused way too much. Sorry if you won former emp fairly in the past. But right now since there are so many unworthy former emp it needs to be weeded out for the best of the majority.

Sorry if it makes you unsub.

But id rather have you leave and to have hundreds of my former pvp friend who left partly cause of that reason come back thanks to this change.

Juraigr · June 2015

Cagro wrote: »

100% disagree. Former emperor buffs are not good for the game because put casual players at a big disadvantage. PVP should be skill based.

Trolololololololololol but cp is alright
Yh ok bruh
bruh
NOTHING is skill based anymore just grind till your nuts fall off then walk into combat with everything being 30% better or reduced thanks to the broken system. You can't petition for removal of emp passives without removal of cp as well cos that's far more messed up than the passives

I don't get why you remove things 50 months when it was a proper issue now it's far to late, but everyone already bust a nut over it like it's the best thing ever lol get real, many things need removal Eg this whole patch
Removal of Former emperor passives won't magically fix a *** game

azoriangaming · June 2015

champion point are who can sit and grind the same monster over and over again wow so much skill involved in this process

Alcast · June 2015

I am happy to get rid of both F. Emp passives + PvP Buffs in PvE.

And no more 50man zergs farming emp on a empty campaign

Raizin · June 2015

I still dont know why ppl thinks that this will somehow fix the game....

If lag is not fixed all this is just pointless rehash pile of turds tbh...

When the times come, where we r unable to play on nonlag campaigns and jump to campaigns (jump to a friend) which are not lagfest, thats the day pvp in this game is dead. U shld mb care more about that, then about some passives that wont change anything

Raizin · June 2015

Alcast wrote: »

I am happy to get rid of both F. Emp passives + PvP Buffs in PvE.

And no more 50man zergs farming emp on a empty campaign

ya, its rly great, now this 50 man zerg ll be on populated campaigns to do more lagging, fak yea! exactly what we want!

Minnesinger · June 2015

Now they will do it. A year ago emperors were made like cupcakes. Hundreds of these exploiters ruined campaigns for many and loads of players quit the game due to that. Luckily, the change in mechanics saved some pride of acquiring the title of the Emperor and the emperor trading was less obvious. They should never have given passives to the emperors but I can understand the pain of those who earned the title legit and lose the passives now. The emperor title has been one big mess from the beginning.

Draxys · June 2015

Komma wrote: »

The ult generation system is much better now....just sayin

lololol

dRudE · June 2015

Former emp buffs are not game breaking. I have never been emp and smash enough face without them. I agree with what the OP is saying about the loyal players who will leave this game. This would be a really bad attempt at trying to stabilize cyrodiil and completely ruin the best long term goal in the game.

Sure not everyone is a pvper, and those who don't pvp can't expect to have those buffs. But some players solely do just pvp and this is there carrot on the end of a stick, those are the players who continue to sub through the rough patches, buy extra crowns for the expensive mounts, buy XP pots from the store and most of all create the community, the guilds, the fan sites, the addons, and the streams.

Like I said I don't even have the buffs so it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to my play style, and it wouldn't make anyone easier to kill either. But I know the effort and lengths people have gone to to achieve those buffs and it would annoy the life out of me if they got removed.

I know you think by doing this it will level the playing field and make it a bit easier for the rest, but in actual fact in wont, the strongest players ARE the ones with the most skill. Not just amount of CP's, not just quality of gear, especially not frigging emp buffs, it comes down to player skill and practice.

This would be another massive over compensation, not in the stat kind, but in the respect you show to your most loyal players.

It would be like taking the tiger mount off us.... I hope that puts it into perspective.

Garion · June 2015

I am indifferent to their removal but I will chuckle to myself when them being removed makes zero difference. Emperor trading hardly happens any more. The damage is done and was done six months ago. Had they acted then maybe we would have seen a positive change. Now this is nothing more than an attempt to look like they are actually doing something with PvP, and funnily enough 99% of people seem to have been hoodwinked!

silentdude · June 2015

Garion wrote: »

I am indifferent to their removal but I will chuckle to myself when them being removed makes zero difference. Emperor trading hardly happens any more. The damage is done and was done six months ago. Had they acted then maybe we would have seen a positive change. Now this is nothing more than an attempt to look like they are actually doing something with PvP, and funnily enough 99% of people seem to have been hoodwinked!

console has a lot of new players, you know...

I have a feeling the removal of former emperor passives, besides the motives already given, has something to do with future major balances, for example, a new trait related to ult cost/generation.

siralzeron_ESO · June 2015

I disagree with the removal of the buff, not because I care about the miniscule bonuses but because of what it means for the game. If Former Emperor buff is removed because new players find it OP, then CP will almost certainly be removed or they will add in pay-to-win methods of getting stronger (like that 50% exp potion in the Crown store or the horse upgradea) they will of course offer alternative ways to get those (like the in game recipe and upgrading the horse normally) but they will be ridiculously time consuming to get so you are pretty much forced to pay to compete. Once loyal players have earned 3600 CP they will be considerably more powerful than new players and anyone not good enough to overcome that difference in stats will quit trying and eventually quit the game. Then ZOS will either have to get rid of it (punch to the gut of loyal players), make it easier to get (slap in the face), or add in a pay-to-win system for it(another slap but to everyone). Removing the buff, on it's own, is insignificant. But when you look at the message it sends, it is a message that no matter how loyal you are or how much time you invest supporting the game, the new and/or casual players who haven't/won't/can't invest enough time in the game will win out over the loyal fanbase. I personally don't care about former emperor buff anymore (honestly looks nicer than it is, feel disappointed after the time invested getting it) but removing it opens the door for anything to be removed to make casual players more on part with dedicated players.

AssaultLemming · July 2015

Boo hoo whine whine. Good bye and good riddance to former emp buffs, they were always a terrible idea.

Etaniel · July 2015

AssaultLemming wrote: »

Boo hoo whine whine. Good bye and good riddance to former emp buffs, they were always a terrible idea.

If we can't whine about something we worked for that is being taken away, what can we whine about??

BladeBoques · July 2015

Just to finish this whole thing up since we've had our great discussion for a week now. Everyone made really great points and I considered them all carefully before reaching my decision, even the personal attacks, some of which I deserved :P All of our debates steam from loving ESO and wanting it to be and stay great. Regardless of if they make this change, ultimately I still think its the best MMO out there and while I can't justify spending the time I wanted to spend here to eventually max CP, because I do believe it will all be for naught eventually, I will stick around as a casual player to enjoy the best combat system ever devised and the mass world PvP.

Through the help of your 120 messages it makes sense to me now that even if things are not permanent I am not "owed" anything really. If the game is enjoyable now, which it is, that is good enough for me regardless of changes in the future, which I believe are inevitable. I don't expect all of you to be on the edge of your seats waiting to hear this lol, but I wanted to bring it full circle after all the points were discussed, and I personally appreciate the greater insight I received after reading what everyone said.

So thank you ZOS for not locking this thread, I know it was dangerously close to calling for it. Thanks again community, and I'll still see you in the battlefield, just a little bit less than I hoped!

Besides I need to make another one of these for this year!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHQJCcrEsu8

TheBonesXXX · July 2015

Oh JHC.

A subtle threat of quitting a game and a streamer whom is arrogant enough to believe that you can make or break how the game is run in the future. I heard of a dirp like that and his name was Angry Joe, all nonsense and purely entertainment.

Emperor does not take time, it never did. It takes the opening of a campaign and zerging Emp ring in a timely fashion before any opposition logs on.

I can say that from personal experience because I'm the guy who did it on Bloodthorn for the first 3 Emperors crowned from early access/launch.
Emperor should dictate just a fancy title and who gets into Imperial City when the patch drops and nothing more. prestige should be placed on the ranks, not something to menial and meaningless which in comparison to rank 50 only means buffs. Being rank 50 is a lot more impressive.

Good riddance to getting rid of former emp, its been a long time coming.