Jimbob6 wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

There is no way today's players would be able to play an old UO style game. I loved it back then just walking thru the forest and cutting trees then out from behind a tree some dude would attack and you would start fighting right after he made you jump out of your seat. Loved those days. But to ask today's players to put up with losing everything on their body and bags would send they screaming that it wasn't fair and so on. Just wouldn't be tolerated by today's kids. Which means it wouldn't be a good money making market. Or games like Darkfall: Unholy Wars would be making tons of money.

Sadly, I have to agree. I LOVED hardcore pvp on EQ's Ralos Zek. And while I am really enjoying ESO, nothing can compare to those old days when anything could happen at anytime, and there was risk involved with almost everything. The game world really felt big and dangerous, and it actually felt exciting to leave the safety of the towns behind and venture into a new zone.

But it seems that the newer players have killed all of this. They all want instant gratification, and no threat of losing anything. Many of them even want to do away with leveling, because "the real game starts at the end", or "it's not fair".

Once again I will say this: There are a lot of games currently available that offer this type of atmosphere. Why come to a game (ESO) that has never pretended to offer this atmosphere and complain about it when you can easily find plenty of other MMORPGs that do?

It doesn't make any sense. Unless of course the true thing you miss is ganking and griefing people.

If it is just a "sense of danger" you guys crave, then there are plenty of other solid MMORPGs that offer this. The notion that games like this are a thing of the past is completely false. So I don't get it.

People didn't flock to those games because they enjoyed the sense of danger. They played them because there wasn't much else to play at the time. There weren't many other options. So people that enjoyed questing and just playing the content of the game were forced into hostile environments where they became easy prey for gankers.

Now there are options. People don't have to play games like that anymore in order to enjoy a non-pvp MMORPG. Now the PvPer has games that cater to them and the PvEers have games that cater to them. The hardcore PvP games have low populations because they are only populated by people that WANT hardcore PvP.

I love consentual PvP. But games where PvE players were forced to subject themselves to this type of environment are gone. And all of those people that used to prey on them are upset about it. They aren't upset because there is a lack of PvP games. They are upset because there is a lack of PvP games filled with people that don't want to PvP and make easy targets.


I played UO as well. I remember one time this guy tells me that he is quitting the game and wanted to give his stuff away. He invited me into his house (where you could kill someone w/o turning red) and proceeded to kill me and loot all my hard earned gear.

So that guy is the kind of person that misses those games.

Jimbob6 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Yet people that reflect on games like that with some romantic sense of nostalgia still come to games like this instead. They avoid the very games they seem to desire in order to play games that clearly do not match their tastes, then complain about how soft the gaming genre has become.

Some of us are playing on consoles these days, and it's not like we have a ton of MMORPGs to choose from. On Xbone, it's this or Neverwinter.

Besides, I think you have it backwards. It's not the hardcore gamers that are playing the wrong games, it's the newer gamers who are playing the wrong games. The original MMORPGs were hardcore and level-based. It's the newer fans that came from playing games like Halo, or CoD who insist on changing the genre to make MMORPGs like FPSs. (i.e. battle-leveling in PvP to even the playing field, little or no leveling, no consequences to dying.)

Come on dude. With the huge sieges the game has and people dropping like flies from oil or ballistas, then to lose ur gear, level, money, or anything else you want to take away would be boring as hell. No one would seige a fort and just defend it instead. Everyone would just farm resources all day and hide out and gank all day long. The pvp would suck and no one would play it. Maybe when the justice system gets implemented you can take something from a player guard you kill or the killer/robber the guard kills. But in cyrodil.......no way

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

There's no "if" to it. That's the way it is.

You can't even enter Cyrodiil without PvE. You want to use the Mage's Guild skills and ultimate? Have to PvE. Undaunted monster sets? PvE. You want access to veteran zones? PvE. 90% of the achievements in ESO? You guessed it....PvE. All of those daily town quests, dolmens, and delves in Cyrodiil? PvE.

PvP in ESO was almost an afterthought, like it or not. They may have initially had grand designs for it, but as you can see, it didn't turn out that way.

That's a good point. Even the PVP gear/rewards isn't really specific or the best for PVP as it is. Some sets, sure, but to be competitive in PVP you have to do a ton of PVE -- even to be able to afford to PVP. Cyrodiil is an expensive place, and AP doesn't cover the cost of siege, repair kits, potions and more. It can help, but you need gold, and gold comes from PVE. The "rewards for the worthy" bags, and even campaign repair kits, barely touch the costs.

Durham wrote: »

Lack of content... No new content....

I think that's one thing that irks me. The devs keep talking about "patch 1.7" in comments (which I assume is just "Update 7", but kind of contradicts the game going to 2.0 status). Given the community is so starved for any information about it, it's like little teases which are thrown out but give you no more information than just the basics.

markt84 wrote: »

That's a good point. Even the PVP gear/rewards isn't really specific or the best for PVP as it is. Some sets, sure, but to be competitive in PVP you have to do a ton of PVE -- even to be able to afford to PVP. Cyrodiil is an expensive place, and AP doesn't cover the cost of siege, repair kits, potions and more. It can help, but you need gold, and gold comes from PVE. The "rewards for the worthy" bags, and even campaign repair kits, barely touch the costs.

How are you pvping? I get on ever since level 10 and get all kinds of alliance points to buy seige equipment. I agree with the gear part, but again my gear is all bought with alliance points. If you can't get enough alliance points to even buy seige equipment, you are doing it wrong[/quote]
It honestly makes more sense to save the AP to buy the mystery bags in the hope of Shadow Walker rings or Morag Tong pieces and sell them on a guild vender than use AP for repair. And during a single night of PVP, I can go through 300-400 repair kits and 50-60 potions.

I repair everything. When everyone runs off to the next keep, I'm the guy that usually sticks back to check all the walls and fix everything. You couldn't buy that many repair kits with AP alone. A single wall kit is 300AP. Buying a full stack of repair kits with AP would be a ridiculous waste of resources.

Alphashado wrote: »

Jimbob6 wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

There is no way today's players would be able to play an old UO style game. I loved it back then just walking thru the forest and cutting trees then out from behind a tree some dude would attack and you would start fighting right after he made you jump out of your seat. Loved those days. But to ask today's players to put up with losing everything on their body and bags would send they screaming that it wasn't fair and so on. Just wouldn't be tolerated by today's kids. Which means it wouldn't be a good money making market. Or games like Darkfall: Unholy Wars would be making tons of money.

Sadly, I have to agree. I LOVED hardcore pvp on EQ's Ralos Zek. And while I am really enjoying ESO, nothing can compare to those old days when anything could happen at anytime, and there was risk involved with almost everything. The game world really felt big and dangerous, and it actually felt exciting to leave the safety of the towns behind and venture into a new zone.

But it seems that the newer players have killed all of this. They all want instant gratification, and no threat of losing anything. Many of them even want to do away with leveling, because "the real game starts at the end", or "it's not fair".

Once again I will say this: There are a lot of games currently available that offer this type of atmosphere. Why come to a game (ESO) that has never pretended to offer this atmosphere and complain about it when you can easily find plenty of other MMORPGs that do?

It doesn't make any sense. Unless of course the true thing you miss is ganking and griefing people.

If it is just a "sense of danger" you guys crave, then there are plenty of other solid MMORPGs that offer this. The notion that games like this are a thing of the past is completely false. So I don't get it.

People didn't flock to those games because they enjoyed the sense of danger. They played them because there wasn't much else to play at the time. There weren't many other options. So people that enjoyed questing and just playing the content of the game were forced into hostile environments where they became easy prey for gankers.

Now there are options. People don't have to play games like that anymore in order to enjoy a non-pvp MMORPG. Now the PvPer has games that cater to them and the PvEers have games that cater to them. The hardcore PvP games have low populations because they are only populated by people that WANT hardcore PvP.

I love consentual PvP. But games where PvE players were forced to subject themselves to this type of environment are gone. And all of those people that used to prey on them are upset about it. They aren't upset because there is a lack of PvP games. They are upset because there is a lack of PvP games filled with people that don't want to PvP and make easy targets.


I played UO as well. I remember one time this guy tells me that he is quitting the game and wanted to give his stuff away. He invited me into his house (where you could kill someone w/o turning red) and proceeded to kill me and loot all my hard earned gear.

So that guy is the kind of person that misses those games.

I play on Xbox One. I don't play on PCs anymore, so there are NOT alot of options for any type of MMORPG for me, let alone a hardcore pvp MMORPG.

And I also agree with CONSENTING PvP. But you have to realize that most of the origional MMORPGs were very hardcore, and were either explicitely PvP, or had PvP specific servers. For example, I played on a Ralos Zek, a PvP server on EQ. Simply by being on the server, the player was consenting to PvP. If they weren't they wouldn't be on the server. Likewise, anyone who played UO was consenting to PvP simply by playing the game. Otherwise, they would be playing something else.

If EQ can have hardcore PvP servers as well as casual, non-PvP servers, there's really no reason why any MMORPG these days cannot do the same, including ESO.

Oh yeah and all my gear is from the mystery bags, I thought that's was the only way you can buy equipment with alliance points. I mean I only played for like 2 hours last night and had enough to get a new full set, including equipment I just deconstructed because I didn't want it, and still had 10k left

Preyfar wrote: »

markt84 wrote: »

I haven't had those problems, usually when I am part of taking a keep, everyone chips in and it gets repaired quick. The only think that kills my points is buying soul gems. It's cheaper to buy the u filled ones and fill them with npcs, but I don't want to take up the skill line spot. I might put it on there. But you can rack up alliance points quick in pvp

On Thornblade I've come across keeps we've held where the inner is completely demolished at 0%. Everybody else has run off and left it, and if I don't do it no one else will. If there was an achievement for burning through wall repair kits I'd have gone through it looooong ago.

What alliance? I'm in thornblade on Xbox with daggerfall, and our walls are usually up. EP is dominating and they always have walls up, I've only seen AD with walls down

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Those games have been out for quite a bit longer than ESO as well right?

This is not a valid defence.

When Ford set out to design a new car do they go back to pre-internal-combustion technology and start from scratch learning from mistakes that everyone else has already learned from?

Or do they start from an up-to-date and informed position and look to improve on the status quo?

There are many MMORPGs out there that have made (and learned from) the mistakes ESO are now making.

Which leaves us with a very alarming set of circumstances: either the ESO design and development are too dumb to learn from others' mistakes, or they are so egotistical that they think they always know best - or very worst case scenario: both.

Which in all fairness probably goes some way to explaining the parlous state the game is in right now.

All The Best

Ok first off this isnt a car. Second off those games you speak of why not just go play them? As far as your comment about the state of the game. They just sold millions of copies on console. The PC version has been on gamestop's top 10 best selling games for weeks. So ya little bit of either ignorance or hyperbole there. I dont know which.

if your losing interest after 2 weeks maybe mmo's arent your thing

If you want ganking and hard-core PvP, by all means go and join the hundreds of thousands of sociopaths playing EVE Online.

Dahkoht wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

If you want ganking and hard-core PvP, by all means go and join the hundreds of thousands of sociopaths playing EVE Online.

Saying anyone who enjoys a game like EVE is a sociopath is as moronic as saying anyone who prefers PVE is a pathetic care bear.


Generalizing all players who enjoy a play style shows you lack judgement.

Indeed. He just doesn't like PvP.

Alphashado wrote: »

Jimbob6 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Jimbob6 wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

There is no way today's players would be able to play an old UO style game. I loved it back then just walking thru the forest and cutting trees then out from behind a tree some dude would attack and you would start fighting right after he made you jump out of your seat. Loved those days. But to ask today's players to put up with losing everything on their body and bags would send they screaming that it wasn't fair and so on. Just wouldn't be tolerated by today's kids. Which means it wouldn't be a good money making market. Or games like Darkfall: Unholy Wars would be making tons of money.

Sadly, I have to agree. I LOVED hardcore pvp on EQ's Ralos Zek. And while I am really enjoying ESO, nothing can compare to those old days when anything could happen at anytime, and there was risk involved with almost everything. The game world really felt big and dangerous, and it actually felt exciting to leave the safety of the towns behind and venture into a new zone.

But it seems that the newer players have killed all of this. They all want instant gratification, and no threat of losing anything. Many of them even want to do away with leveling, because "the real game starts at the end", or "it's not fair".

Once again I will say this: There are a lot of games currently available that offer this type of atmosphere. Why come to a game (ESO) that has never pretended to offer this atmosphere and complain about it when you can easily find plenty of other MMORPGs that do?

It doesn't make any sense. Unless of course the true thing you miss is ganking and griefing people.

If it is just a "sense of danger" you guys crave, then there are plenty of other solid MMORPGs that offer this. The notion that games like this are a thing of the past is completely false. So I don't get it.

People didn't flock to those games because they enjoyed the sense of danger. They played them because there wasn't much else to play at the time. There weren't many other options. So people that enjoyed questing and just playing the content of the game were forced into hostile environments where they became easy prey for gankers.

Now there are options. People don't have to play games like that anymore in order to enjoy a non-pvp MMORPG. Now the PvPer has games that cater to them and the PvEers have games that cater to them. The hardcore PvP games have low populations because they are only populated by people that WANT hardcore PvP.

I love consentual PvP. But games where PvE players were forced to subject themselves to this type of environment are gone. And all of those people that used to prey on them are upset about it. They aren't upset because there is a lack of PvP games. They are upset because there is a lack of PvP games filled with people that don't want to PvP and make easy targets.


I played UO as well. I remember one time this guy tells me that he is quitting the game and wanted to give his stuff away. He invited me into his house (where you could kill someone w/o turning red) and proceeded to kill me and loot all my hard earned gear.

So that guy is the kind of person that misses those games.

Likewise, anyone who played UO was consenting to PvP simply by playing the game. Otherwise, they would be playing something else.

Exactly. That is what is happening. People have the option to play something else now, and they are. People are no longer forced to play games where they get ganked and looted just to enjoy an RPG setting in an MMO, so they don't. And THAT is why games like Darkfall aren't smash hits. Because there simply isn't enough demand for that kind of game. The vast majority of people that played UO didn't play it because of the "sense of danger". They played it because it was basically the only MMORPG on the market that was worth a darn.

UO was only open pvp from 1997 launch to 2000 when UOR came out. Then they had to introduce trammel because people left the game. Mind you at the time there basically was UO and thats it for choices. So people chose to not even play a MMO then be subject to psychopathic slaughter.

All the "hardcore" mmos except EVE are failures. People want to be left alone. Again the problem is these guys want sheep to kill. Not people who know what they are doing. Thats why they beg for open pvp and things like that in THIS game when there are tons of other games that have what they want. Except in those games they are the sheep.

Maybe (just maybe) if you want hardcore pvp this game is not for you. Its not a big deal. If you dont like the game the uninstall option is available to you. If you think they will add loot drop and open pvp worldwide you are simply delusional.