Are Vigor usefull on stamina damage dealers in the current meta? (PVE)

OrphanHelgen · June 2015

It was early this morning, I was in mood for a discussion/chat, so I now edit my post for more understanding.

I am a Orc DragonKnight damage dealer, and dont have as much recovery options as a better class, lets say wood elf nightblade. Even with 300 champion points, I still struggle in trials sometimes, execpt when I pick up a shard often or have a healer with masters restoration staff. My point was, I personal don't see Vigor getting used by damage dealers, since in this current meta, all groups have their own personal healer anyway, so it would be a skill waste in the damage dealers skillbar. I am now currently talking about the damage dealers who want hightest dps numbers as possible. So I personal think that vigor is "best" for groups outside the current PVE meta / PVP / or some special new builds, that someone already might have tried, and I would love to hear about them

A tired persons previous thread:
Im struggle enough as a stamina DD DK as it is, with keeping my stamina up. ATM, I need shards or green dragonblood up at all times. Why would I waste anymore stamina on a heal as a DD in group? We have a healer. Is this only useful in pvp or special builds? Dont get me wrong, I will of course try it, but I dont see it fit on my damage bar because of my already lack of stamina regen. I have 300 champion points too btw, still struggle. 60 days played. Tried everything. I struggle less with stamina as 2H due to the passive stamina regen when killing an enemy.

notimetocare · June 2015

Well it is built as a pvp skill... you know, alliance war tree.

lolo_01b16_ESO · June 2015

Well, if vigor is usefull for you depends on your build and the group you play with. There are some fun combinations with a magicka nb dd and a stamina dd who uses vigor, as both together can replace a healer and still do a lot of damage.
But the best use for vigor is in PvP where you can't always relay on being healed by someone else.

Kronosphere · June 2015

dafaq is a dd, damage dealer? and 300 stam regen is lolworthy id def consider increasing it

DIENASTY9 · June 2015

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Im struggle enough as a stamina DD DK as it is, with keeping my stamina up. ATM, I need shards or green dragonblood up at all times. Why would I waste anymore stamina on a heal as a DD in group? We have a healer. Is this only useful in pvp or special builds? Dont get me wrong, I will of course try it, but I dont see it fit on my damage bar because of my already lack of stamina regen. I have 300 champion points too btw, still struggle. 60 days played. Tried everything. I struggle less with stamina as 2H due to the passive stamina regen when killing an enemy.

the goal is to have very heavy stamina stats for any stamina build.(regen max and cost reduc) by vr 14. this requires correct attribute ratios and equipment.

vigor is the best heal in the game and can cost around 1k to cast.

google the numbers, but vigor is a better heal than GDB.

aside from the (few reliable) healers in pvp/pve thats why we use it/want it.

BuggeX · June 2015

DK doesnt Need Vigor.

and btw vigor is not better than gdb. Vigor is not affected by you hp and scal with Stamina, but is a hot.
GDB is a instant heal based on hp left, if you have something like 24k max hp and 5k left, it will heal you for somthing 10k

Jeckll · June 2015

Our Tank uses Vigor so we can run VDSA without a healer. Not sure why a DPS should use that for PvE. As mentioned, it's for Stamina Players to have access to a form of healing other than Momentum.

DIENASTY9 · June 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

DK doesnt Need Vigor.

and btw vigor is not better than gdb. Vigor is not affected by you hp and scal with Stamina, but is a hot.
GDB is a instant heal based on hp left, if you have something like 24k max hp and 5k left, it will heal you for somthing 10k

must have forgotten from my days of pc, thanks.

Kronosphere · June 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

DK doesnt Need Vigor.

and btw vigor is not better than gdb. Vigor is not affected by you hp and scal with Stamina, but is a hot.
GDB is a instant heal based on hp left, if you have something like 24k max hp and 5k left, it will heal you for somthing 10k

unless your HEAVILY invested into healing received etc 33% of 19k is NOT 10k..... (24k-5k=19k. 33% of 19k)

BuggeX · June 2015

Kronosphere wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

DK doesnt Need Vigor.

and btw vigor is not better than gdb. Vigor is not affected by you hp and scal with Stamina, but is a hot.
GDB is a instant heal based on hp left, if you have something like 24k max hp and 5k left, it will heal you for somthing 10k

unless your HEAVILY invested into healing received etc 33% of 19k is NOT 10k..... (24k-5k=19k. 33% of 19k)

9,129k you get 12% from draconic blood burning heart and a other 30% from igneous shild, most dk use this 2 together

Johngo0036 · June 2015

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Im struggle enough as a stamina DD DK as it is, with keeping my stamina up. ATM, I need shards or green dragonblood up at all times. Why would I waste anymore stamina on a heal as a DD in group? We have a healer. Is this only useful in pvp or special builds? Dont get me wrong, I will of course try it, but I dont see it fit on my damage bar because of my already lack of stamina regen. I have 300 champion points too btw, still struggle. 60 days played. Tried everything. I struggle less with stamina as 2H due to the passive stamina regen when killing an enemy.

300 CP????? and you are struggling with stamina regen,

Either your gear is wrong or you are doing something wrong.

Kronosphere · June 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

Kronosphere wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

DK doesnt Need Vigor.

and btw vigor is not better than gdb. Vigor is not affected by you hp and scal with Stamina, but is a hot.
GDB is a instant heal based on hp left, if you have something like 24k max hp and 5k left, it will heal you for somthing 10k

unless your HEAVILY invested into healing received etc 33% of 19k is NOT 10k..... (24k-5k=19k. 33% of 19k)

9,129k you get 12% from draconic blood burning heart and a other 30% from igneous shild, most dk use this 2 together

lol u cant count a combo in the basic abilities heal without mentioning it..

yeah my light attack hits for 50k damage (when i spam wrecking blow and soul assault in combo with it)

like.. really... vigor is 1 slot u are comparing it to a combo how dumb.

Kronosphere · June 2015

lets not even mention the cost for a igneous shield + green dragon blood is what 6k magicka for a stam dk compared to 1-2k stam for a still very good heal that u dont need to wait till your low hp aka execute range to use. green blood only has the burst over vigor. still not spammable on a stam dk (what we are talking about here)

BuggeX · June 2015

Kronosphere wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Kronosphere wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

DK doesnt Need Vigor.

and btw vigor is not better than gdb. Vigor is not affected by you hp and scal with Stamina, but is a hot.
GDB is a instant heal based on hp left, if you have something like 24k max hp and 5k left, it will heal you for somthing 10k

unless your HEAVILY invested into healing received etc 33% of 19k is NOT 10k..... (24k-5k=19k. 33% of 19k)

9,129k you get 12% from draconic blood burning heart and a other 30% from igneous shild, most dk use this 2 together

lol u cant count a combo in the basic abilities heal without mentioning it..

yeah my light attack hits for 50k damage (when i spam wrecking blow and soul assault in combo with it)

like.. really... vigor is 1 slot u are comparing it to a combo how dumb.

well ok without shild gdb will heal for somthing 7,5k, burning heart is a passiv.
vigor is still a hot wich heal for max 3-4k all 2 secs for 6 secs.

gdb = stronger burstheal

Kronosphere · June 2015

yes i agree to this =P

BuggeX · June 2015

but lets be honest, gdb and vigor are equal for stam dds, gdb give you additional stam regen.

But stam dk should allways use 2h cause he miss (a working) gap closer so he Need to use critical rush. If he use 2h he also may use momentum wich has a strong hot to. so wy would i use 2 hots if i could have 1 hot and a burst heal in case?

Kronosphere · June 2015

if they burst u 2 times rally aint gonna be strong enough fast enough for the 2nd heal. most times when i die (other than skill bar crud) its because ive ran out of magicka and rally hasnt been ticking on me long enough to reactivate for the burst heal. so id probs go perma vigor with my 1800+ stam regen over gdb. im pretty sure the 20% stam regen doesnt stack with the 20% stam regen from pots anyways. (i generall;y use stam pots in pvp as im cheap)

Leandor · June 2015

I can honestly say that I don't get the majority of posts here. Please try to put a little more effort into wording your questions & replies. Also, bonus points for insulting because of different opinion.

That said, Vigor is an alliance war skill and has nothing to do with being a stamina whatnot or magicka thatalso. Currently you have to earn approximately 7 million AP to unlock it, but there is talk it will get massively reduced to only 356k AP to unlock it (talk about a sledge hammer change...). AP are "alliance points", the reward you get by participating in PvP.

Vigor and GDB are not really comparable. GDB heals much less, but instant and has other benefits (hello, stamina regeneration). Also, since these two use different resource pools, it gives flexibility. And don't underestimate Vigor's potential as a group heal.

Lastly, to OP, ESO is to a large part a game of player skill, not toon stats. I fail to see how you can have 60 days /played and 300 CP without learning how to tune your character's resource regeneration and handling your resource management appropriately. Well, actually I can see exactly how, but will not elaborate because that would be rumormongering coughebaycough.

If you struggle with stamina regeneration, then you either need to increase your resource pool and regeneration stats or make your skills cheaper by applying cost reduction enchants. With the massive game time you have on the clock, you surely know that there are also so-called passive abilities that decrease cost and thereby make resource management easier. I assume you have a sufficient number of skill points available to unlock all those beneficial passives.

Finally, try to build a more balanced choice of abilities that uses both resource pools in an appropriate manner. And also remember, that you could also use heavy attacks to regenerate some of your main resource.

OrphanHelgen · June 2015

Leandor wrote: »

I can honestly say that I don't get the majority of posts here. Please try to put a little more effort into wording your questions & replies. Also, bonus points for insulting because of different opinion.

That said, Vigor is an alliance war skill and has nothing to do with being a stamina whatnot or magicka thatalso. Currently you have to earn approximately 7 million AP to unlock it, but there is talk it will get massively reduced to only 356k AP to unlock it (talk about a sledge hammer change...). AP are "alliance points", the reward you get by participating in PvP.

Vigor and GDB are not really comparable. GDB heals much less, but instant and has other benefits (hello, stamina regeneration). Also, since these two use different resource pools, it gives flexibility. And don't underestimate Vigor's potential as a group heal.

Lastly, to OP, ESO is to a large part a game of player skill, not toon stats. I fail to see how you can have 60 days /played and 300 CP without learning how to tune your character's resource regeneration and handling your resource management appropriately. Well, actually I can see exactly how, but will not elaborate because that would be rumormongering coughebaycough.

If you struggle with stamina regeneration, then you either need to increase your resource pool and regeneration stats or make your skills cheaper by applying cost reduction enchants. With the massive game time you have on the clock, you surely know that there are also so-called passive abilities that decrease cost and thereby make resource management easier. I assume you have a sufficient number of skill points available to unlock all those beneficial passives.

Finally, try to build a more balanced choice of abilities that uses both resource pools in an appropriate manner. And also remember, that you could also use heavy attacks to regenerate some of your main resource.

Thanks for answers. I knew people would say my build is wrong since I lack stamina regen, My point was that I dont think vigor is good for a stamina DD in PVE, and that was exactly what you guys said too. Also, end game stamina damage gear, have nothing stamina regen/reduce cost stats, so ofcourse I can change my gear for less damage and more regen, as well as changing mundus stone, but that is not the case. The case is, I dont see how vigor is used on stamina damage dealers in PVE with current end game gear as a DK and dps required meta. thanks for confirming this theory

Kupoking · June 2015

I do not see the problem here with vigor in pve. I use it all the time in vet dsa on both templar and dk stam dd. I have enough stam to use it during some encounters. Its not a must but it does indeed saves lifes and relieve some pressure off the healer. I do not use it in 12 men trials as those are dps races and rather slot all out offense.

I think op's problem is his lack of stam to use it. I never use gdb in pve for stam regen as stam pots work better. I also drop meteors as they are up for ressource generation. Another thing would be to spread even your cp in stam cost reduction and stam regen plus using stam cost glyphs on jewelry. Try to weave some heavy attacks if you really can sustain your stam.

Nifty2g · June 2015

Leandor wrote: »

That said, Vigor is an alliance war skill and has nothing to do with being a stamina whatnot or magicka thatalso.

vigor heals off of your max stamina.
gdb heals off of your max magicka.

so yes, there is something to do with it being stamina

Marsgodofwar · June 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

That said, Vigor is an alliance war skill and has nothing to do with being a stamina whatnot or magicka thatalso.

vigor heals off of your max stamina.
gdb heals off of your max magicka.

so yes, there is something to do with it being stamina

gdb heals off missing health

OrphanHelgen · June 2015

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

I do not see the problem here with vigor in pve. I use it all the time in vet dsa on both templar and dk stam dd. I have enough stam to use it during some encounters. Its not a must but it does indeed saves lifes and relieve some pressure off the healer. I do not use it in 12 men trials as those are dps races and rather slot all out offense.

I think op's problem is his lack of stam to use it. I never use gdb in pve for stam regen as stam pots work better. I also drop meteors as they are up for ressource generation. Another thing would be to spread even your cp in stam cost reduction and stam regen plus using stam cost glyphs on jewelry. Try to weave some heavy attacks if you really can sustain your stam.

I give you hearth for the best answer and understanding in this thread. Thank you.
And yes, I have thought about spread the CP out in reduce cost and regen, (like I do with my magicka alts), but the reason I dont do it, is because I really want the 120cp passive, the speed thing. I like dragonblood also for the healing recieved passive you get for having a dragonic power spell activated, but mainly I do it for the regen, and if the meteor spamming is helping you with stamina back, Its a great tip, and actually something I have not tried. I try to save my ult and use standard of might for most dmg. cant beat the standard

So Insightful if you manage to be DPS in trials and still have no problems with stamina as a damage dealer, I should heavily do a build change, even if I might lose some dps numbers in the beginning before I get used to it. Again, thanks for a grown-up and understanding answer @houimetub17_ESO . I am actually so sick of people always comment the negative way in any situation.

Nifty2g · June 2015

Marsgodofwar wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

That said, Vigor is an alliance war skill and has nothing to do with being a stamina whatnot or magicka thatalso.

vigor heals off of your max stamina.
gdb heals off of your max magicka.

so yes, there is something to do with it being stamina

gdb heals off missing health

I'm still fairly sure the heal itself increases based on your max magicka; i'm just assuming that cause if you put points into blessed it makes your heal stronger.

Kupoking · June 2015

Its unlikely gdb heals scales off magika. I feel like its working like sun shield that scales off health but uses magika.

Increase heal taken does affect it though. From that you can assume that cp that increase heal dealt or taken makes it stronger.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · June 2015

Kronosphere wrote: »

dafaq is a dd, damage dealer? and 300 stam regen is lolworthy id def consider increasing it

Do u even read bru
And u really don't know what dd stands for?

So much LOL in such a short post

Marsgodofwar · June 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Marsgodofwar wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

That said, Vigor is an alliance war skill and has nothing to do with being a stamina whatnot or magicka thatalso.

vigor heals off of your max stamina.
gdb heals off of your max magicka.

so yes, there is something to do with it being stamina

gdb heals off missing health

I'm still fairly sure the heal itself increases based on your max magicka; i'm just assuming that cause if you put points into blessed it makes your heal stronger.

That's because blessed specifically states it increases effectiveness of heals initiated. GDB is a heal you initiated so it receives this benefit but the original heal is calculated based off of missing health.

Nifty2g · June 2015

Marsgodofwar wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Marsgodofwar wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

That said, Vigor is an alliance war skill and has nothing to do with being a stamina whatnot or magicka thatalso.

vigor heals off of your max stamina.
gdb heals off of your max magicka.

so yes, there is something to do with it being stamina

gdb heals off missing health

I'm still fairly sure the heal itself increases based on your max magicka; i'm just assuming that cause if you put points into blessed it makes your heal stronger.

That's because blessed specifically states it increases effectiveness of heals initiated. GDB is a heal you initiated so it receives this benefit but the original heal is calculated based off of missing health.

I'd be surprised if it is not based on your max magicka/max stamina at all and solely based on missing health as that skill would be the only one to be like that and its highly unlikely zos would program one specific skill design. Their system is based on your max magicka/stamina and spell damage/weapon damage.

Marsgodofwar · June 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Marsgodofwar wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Marsgodofwar wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

That said, Vigor is an alliance war skill and has nothing to do with being a stamina whatnot or magicka thatalso.

vigor heals off of your max stamina.
gdb heals off of your max magicka.

so yes, there is something to do with it being stamina

gdb heals off missing health

I'm still fairly sure the heal itself increases based on your max magicka; i'm just assuming that cause if you put points into blessed it makes your heal stronger.

That's because blessed specifically states it increases effectiveness of heals initiated. GDB is a heal you initiated so it receives this benefit but the original heal is calculated based off of missing health.

I'd be surprised if it is not based on your max magicka/max stamina at all and solely based on missing health as that skill would be the only one to be like that and its highly unlikely zos would program one specific skill design. Their system is based on your max magicka/stamina and spell damage/weapon damage.

You may be right and I'm at work now so i can't really test it but I would find it hard to believe that stamina users would use it as a burst heal if it was based off of max magicka. Then again I don't know everything

Leandor · June 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

That said, Vigor is an alliance war skill and has nothing to do with being a stamina whatnot or magicka thatalso.

vigor heals off of your max stamina.
gdb heals off of your max magicka.

so yes, there is something to do with it being stamina

GDB heals of "max health" in the sense that it gives you exactly 33% of the health that you miss from being at 100% health. It uses magicka but it's value is completely unrelated to max. magicka. It is influenced by healing increase passives, though.

My statement is related to the quite misunderstandable way the question was posted, implying that having a stamina DD makes you unlock vigor. As I said initially, I did not get a clear picture of the meaning of OPs post.

OrphanHelgen · June 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

That said, Vigor is an alliance war skill and has nothing to do with being a stamina whatnot or magicka thatalso.

vigor heals off of your max stamina.
gdb heals off of your max magicka.

so yes, there is something to do with it being stamina

GDB heals of "max health" in the sense that it gives you exactly 33% of the health that you miss from being at 100% health. It uses magicka but it's value is completely unrelated to max. magicka. It is influenced by healing increase passives, though.

My statement is related to the quite misunderstandable way the question was posted, implying that having a stamina DD makes you unlock vigor. As I said initially, I did not get a clear picture of the meaning of OPs post.

you are right @Leandor . It was early this morning I wrote it, I dont know myself, just wanted to share an oppinion tbh :-)