Let's Have A Talk About Emperor...

Senk3tsu · June 2015

Something that has bothered me since reading the patch notes is the taking away of the former Emperor passives. Now, I have been reading the forums and I have not seen a clear cut answer as to 'why' they are being taken away so I can only guess. If someone has seen that answer, I'd love to know why.
To me, it does not make sense to remove an ENTIRE skill line from the game, especially one that people have worked so hard to get. I personally had to stay on the leaderboard for over a week with little sleep, and I know plenty of others who suffered the sleepless nights to achieve it. Basically, its the hardest thing to do in the game currently, because not only do you have to be on top, your faction has to either have the numbers, or the coordination to pull it off. Though, on the other hand, you do have people that exploited. I'm sure a lot of us remember Celarus and how bad it was, and if you don't it was a flip campaign. The worst flip campaign.

But, removing an entire skill line to punish those people who got it by 'exploiting' when the majority of those players aren't even around anymore is not a solution. That is the ONLY reason I can think of why those passives would be taken away, either that or raging from people who don't have them.
I don't think its fair at all, and while the passives are only small percentages, to me its more about the principle. Punish the many, for the mistakes of the few.
Personally, I think a much better solution, if the issue was not because of the swappers and because they feel its 'imbalanced' or something treat it like the campaign buffs. Those are only active in Cyrodiil with this new patch, so make former Emperors only active in Cyrodiil. That would make sense to me over removing an entire skill line from the game. Sounds like way more work than just turning them off for PvE.

Either way, the system for getting Emperor is completely wacky anyway. Let's have some storytime.

I started my experience with ESO as a tester in the extended closed beta and saw some cool stuff along the way but one of the things we saw was a problem with the Emperor system as a whole. A player was able to set a camp, and farm AP enough to pass number one on the leaderboards and when the last keep flipped and the score updated that player who set that camp had surpassed the current lead resulting in some heavy flame wars. So that was a problem, and was going to be a problem at launch and it was pretty much ignored.

The whole Emp system has issues and I think that, and the overall lag issues in Cyrodiil need to be looked at first before taking away an entire skill line from players who the majority worked really hard to obtain that. That should NOT be the focus of fixing things right now. I don't post often, but I feel like this needed its own separate post though I did address it slightly on the page of the newest patch.

I'd love to hear some other players opinions on this.

Suru · June 2015

The people on these forums are purists of sorts and will give you almost no mercy derp about the emp passives being removed derp

Erock25 · June 2015

The reason these former emp buffs need to be removed is because it encourages practices that ZOS finds is detrimental to the overall PVP vision. It encourages large groups of players to hop from campaign to campaign. It encourages back door deals where guilds decide not to defend a campaign so that Emp can flip. It encourages AP farming. Removing the buffs from PVE is meaningless since most people farm the buffs for PVP.

JTorus · June 2015

Senk3tsu wrote: »

....
To me, it does not make sense to remove an ENTIRE skill line from the game, especially one that people have worked so hard to get.
....

Many individuals did not work hard to get it. Make no mistake, the emperor status has/had become a farm technique among some guilds. It is less of a reward for actual skilled players, and more of a thing to achieve through point farming. The only people who should have emperor skills are the emperors.

Senk3tsu wrote: »

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Basically, its the hardest thing to do in the game currently,
....

Have you tried fishing?

Senk3tsu wrote: »

....
But, removing an entire skill line to punish those people who got it by 'exploiting' when the majority of those players aren't even around anymore is not a solution. That is the ONLY reason I can think of why those passives would be taken away, either that or raging from people who don't have them.

....

It is not a punishment, it is a nerf, ZOS is attempting to balance Cyrodiil. This is part of that. Plenty of us do not have the former emp skills, and we don't really care too much one way or the other.

Senk3tsu wrote: »

....
Either way, the system for getting Emperor is completely wacky anyway. Let's have some storytime.
....

No story needed, we all know the system is a bit exploitable. Any method proposed to award emperor to a player would be exploitable in a fashion. And that's what people ultimately do. They find the most efficient way to realize an achievement. It's why, as a species, we're not still banging on rocks with sticks and grunting at one another.

Senk3tsu wrote: »

....
The whole Emp system has issues and I think that, and the overall lag issues in Cyrodiil need to be looked at first before taking away an entire skill line from players who the majority worked really hard to obtain that. That should NOT be the focus of fixing things right now. I don't post often, but I feel like this needed its own separate post though I did address it slightly on the page of the newest patch.

I'd love to hear some other players opinions on this.

This is just a part of a larger Cyrodiil overhaul. Most people make the mistake of mingling two important, but vastly separate things when it comes to this game (and any other really). The (emperor) system itself, and its design really isn't that flawed. However couple that with ZOS's gross miscalculation in which people actually play the game and the cracks show immediately.

While you may not like the removal of the skill line (I'm personally indifferent) what you might want to do is take a step back and look at the bigger picture. We're all on these forums hollering about exploits, cheats, hacks, imbalances and broken mechanics. The proposed changes are an attempt to fix those things, yes, but there's more behind it. The game certainly could use some polishing in many areas, but over the past 6 months to a year now, the loudest complaints have revolved around players and their playstyles. There are some people that will "do anything necessary to win" These individuals aren't playing ESO, they're playing stats and numbers. They figure out, narrow down and (ab)use these maximized mechanics, sometimes coupled with cheats, glitches and exploits.

In the end, the people who play the game because they enjoy it for what it is, they really aren't all the bothered by this proposed change. It'll level the playing field some, and ensure the battles perhaps more equally challenging. Think of it less like a punishment, and more as an open invitation for some certain people to kindly play the game as it was designed, or find some other game to 'win, at any cost'.

Senk3tsu · June 2015

Suru wrote: »

The people on these forums are purists of sorts and will give you almost no mercy derp about the emp passives being removed derp

I was more just curious to see other thoughts on it ^^

Publius_Scipio · June 2015

I think Brian Wheeler gave a clear cut answer on both his forum post regarding the upcoming major changes and on last week's ESO Live stream. Emperor farming ruined things and the emperor passives are going away in hopes of stemming that problem.

Takllin · June 2015

What a few others have said here, they did it because it was the sole reason people were and are Emperor Farming/Trading. We still have guilds that farm the Emperor passives for their guildmates and if someone who already is Emperor is ahead of a friend/guildie who has not had it, they will drop before being crowned.

Take away the passive buffs and you essentially remove the entire reason that people were doing this. It's the reason Brian Wheeler gave during the ESO Live segment. He also said that since launch there have been 1,703 Emperors crowned. That's a ton...

They don't want this behavior spreading to consoles so they are nipping it in the bud. It's unfortunate that it came to this, but this is why we can't have nice things. People figure out ways to abuse and exploit the system beyond what it was meant for.

Alcast · June 2015

I like the change

Psilent · June 2015

Yup, I'm a former emperor and love the change as well. Still have the achievement, title, and dye! Hopefully this change will stop the following behavior.

1. Person stays up for 72 hours straight to get crowned and right after being throned goes to bed and loses it. When asked why he/she went to bed when AD jumped to 3 bars they say "Just did this for the passives and I needed sleep."

2. Person is wearing emperor costume/title at North Morrowind gate talking in /say while 3 bars of AD zerg the ring. When asked why he/she isn't defending they say "Guild got me the passives, they are on break while AD takes it back. I'm going to drop so my buddy can get the passives next."

3. Person is in full emperor costume/title in sneak on top floor of Alessia, while a group of 10 AD are taking it back. I say in a whisper "We can take them, let's go!" His/her response "lol just did this for the passives and letting them retake for a friend to get later. I'm just here to place oil pots in case people try to defend." -_-

Yup, I'm very glad they are going away! Hopefully won't have to deal with this behavior anymore!

Alcast · June 2015

Psilent wrote: »

Yup, I'm a former emperor and love the change as well. Still have the achievement, title, and dye! Hopefully this change will stop the following behavior.

1. Person stays up for 72 hours straight to get crowned and right after being throned goes to bed and loses it. When asked why he/she went to bed when AD jumped to 3 bars they say "Just did this for the passives and I needed sleep."

2. Person is wearing emperor costume/title at North Morrowind gate talking in /say while 3 bars of AD zerg the ring. When asked why he/she isn't defending they say "Guild got me the passives, they are on break while AD takes it back. I'm going to drop so my buddy can get the passives next."

3. Person is in full emperor costume/title in sneak on top floor of Alessia, while a group of 10 AD are taking it back. I say in a whisper "We can take them, let's go!" His/her response "lol just did this for the passives and letting them retake for a friend to get later. I'm just here to place oil pots in case people try to defend." -_-

Yup, I'm very glad they are going away! Hopefully won't have to deal with this behavior anymore!

that made me laugh haha, and cry at the same time. Lucky they those passives go away!

Anazasi · June 2015

Suru wrote: »

The people on these forums are purists of sorts and will give you almost no mercy derp about the emp passives being removed derp

DERP

Rylana · June 2015

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I think Brian Wheeler gave a clear cut answer on both his forum post regarding the upcoming major changes and on last week's ESO Live stream. Emperor farming ruined things and the emperor passives are going away in hopes of stemming that problem.

Makes no sense to do it now, over a year in. Where was this fix/change last June when Celarus came out? Before 20-30 new former emps a DAY were being generated?

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I think Brian Wheeler gave a clear cut answer on both his forum post regarding the upcoming major changes and on last week's ESO Live stream. Emperor farming ruined things and the emperor passives are going away in hopes of stemming that problem.

Makes no sense to do it now, over a year in. Where was this fix/change last June when Celarus came out? Before 20-30 new former emps a DAY were being generated?

i agree with this. They should have removed the emp buffs ages ago...

ZOS has a bad tendency to ignore things that they are clearly aware of.... even back then they admitted it was going to be changed.

Ezareth · June 2015

Emp passives always were nothing to get worked up over. I know people who flipped out over such a minor thing.

Hell one guy on one of my old servers repaired wall to get emp. He spent over 1 million gold on wall repair kits and spent the entire campaign looking for damage walls to repair. Days and days of squatting and standing. In the end he had to pay *AD* to come in and flip the inner keeps for him so he could be crowned because we refused to do it for him.

I earned my Emperorship many times over but I'd gladly sacrifice the buffs to see that kind of stupidity gone from the game.

k2blader · June 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Emp passives always were nothing to get worked up over. I know people who flipped out over such a minor thing.

Hell one guy on one of my old servers repaired wall to get emp. He spent over 1 million gold on wall repair kits and spent the entire campaign looking for damage walls to repair. Days and days of squatting and standing. In the end he had to pay *AD* to come in and flip the inner keeps for him so he could be crowned because we refused to do it for him.

I earned my Emperorship many times over but I'd gladly sacrifice the buffs to see that kind of stupidity gone from the game.

Sometimes I'd rather read your posts than play ESO.

#pleasepostmore

(Same also to @Vis and his/her amusing graphics. :-)

Makkir · June 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

. Days and days of squatting and standing. .

Exactly how I got such a nice butt

Sanct16 · June 2015

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I think Brian Wheeler gave a clear cut answer on both his forum post regarding the upcoming major changes and on last week's ESO Live stream. Emperor farming ruined things and the emperor passives are going away in hopes of stemming that problem.

... 8 months after Emperor farming was a thing.. good job!

InvictoNZ · June 2015

It was always a terrible design, just like the rest of the game.

IxSTALKERxI · June 2015

The console PVP population is hugeee right now. Last thing thing this game needs is 10,000 console players emp flipping. I think Zos is learning from all the mistakes on PC and is trying to make sure the same things don't also happen on console. I support anything that is going to help the game, including losing my passives.

Valnas · June 2015

my first campaign (dawnbreaker) i was sitting #2 and the dampaign died. Reigning emp was willing to drop, but I went to guest wabba that month rather than gate farm, while the #3 on my faction did scouting quests to the tune of 900k ap for a month, passed me on day 89, a dc group he courted came at 3 am and flipped the map for fugs (gondor i believe) and he got crowned 10k ahead of me. Emp does funny things to ppl, he was a guildmate!

Lava_Croft · June 2015

If you 'missed' the answer telling you why the Former Emperor passives are being taken away, you really have not been reading very closely.

Weberda · June 2015

Psilent wrote: »

Yup, I'm a former emperor and love the change as well. Still have the achievement, title, and dye! Hopefully this change will stop the following behavior.

1. Person stays up for 72 hours straight to get crowned and right after being throned goes to bed and loses it. When asked why he/she went to bed when AD jumped to 3 bars they say "Just did this for the passives and I needed sleep."

2. Person is wearing emperor costume/title at North Morrowind gate talking in /say while 3 bars of AD zerg the ring. When asked why he/she isn't defending they say "Guild got me the passives, they are on break while AD takes it back. I'm going to drop so my buddy can get the passives next."

3. Person is in full emperor costume/title in sneak on top floor of Alessia, while a group of 10 AD are taking it back. I say in a whisper "We can take them, let's go!" His/her response "lol just did this for the passives and letting them retake for a friend to get later. I'm just here to place oil pots in case people try to defend." -_-

Yup, I'm very glad they are going away! Hopefully won't have to deal with this behavior anymore!

This stuff that Vjori is referring to here didn't happen months ago. It was going on in Haderus back in February and March. Frankly I would be happy if they just did away with the whole idea of emperor altogether but that would be a disservice to some very unselfish and deserving players that obtained the title within the spirit of the game (there are some out there).

Psilent · June 2015

Weberda wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Yup, I'm a former emperor and love the change as well. Still have the achievement, title, and dye! Hopefully this change will stop the following behavior.

1. Person stays up for 72 hours straight to get crowned and right after being throned goes to bed and loses it. When asked why he/she went to bed when AD jumped to 3 bars they say "Just did this for the passives and I needed sleep."

2. Person is wearing emperor costume/title at North Morrowind gate talking in /say while 3 bars of AD zerg the ring. When asked why he/she isn't defending they say "Guild got me the passives, they are on break while AD takes it back. I'm going to drop so my buddy can get the passives next."

3. Person is in full emperor costume/title in sneak on top floor of Alessia, while a group of 10 AD are taking it back. I say in a whisper "We can take them, let's go!" His/her response "lol just did this for the passives and letting them retake for a friend to get later. I'm just here to place oil pots in case people try to defend." -_-

Yup, I'm very glad they are going away! Hopefully won't have to deal with this behavior anymore!

This stuff that Vjori is referring to here didn't happen months ago. It was going on in Haderus back in February and March. Frankly I would be happy if they just did away with the whole idea of emperor altogether but that would be a disservice to some very unselfish and deserving players that obtained the title within the spirit of the game (there are some out there).

Hopefully Zenimax gets rid of Emperor altogether soon. While the position of emperor creates a unique philosophical discussion on individual pride; it's just not worth ruining so many campaigns so one person can feel elite. I'd much rather the keeps be required for imperial city entry and upon losing them you would be teleported to the gate. Reduce the campaigns down to three on PC and we'd have so much PvP, we wouldn't know what to do!

Weberda · June 2015

Psilent wrote: »

Weberda wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Yup, I'm a former emperor and love the change as well. Still have the achievement, title, and dye! Hopefully this change will stop the following behavior.

1. Person stays up for 72 hours straight to get crowned and right after being throned goes to bed and loses it. When asked why he/she went to bed when AD jumped to 3 bars they say "Just did this for the passives and I needed sleep."

2. Person is wearing emperor costume/title at North Morrowind gate talking in /say while 3 bars of AD zerg the ring. When asked why he/she isn't defending they say "Guild got me the passives, they are on break while AD takes it back. I'm going to drop so my buddy can get the passives next."

3. Person is in full emperor costume/title in sneak on top floor of Alessia, while a group of 10 AD are taking it back. I say in a whisper "We can take them, let's go!" His/her response "lol just did this for the passives and letting them retake for a friend to get later. I'm just here to place oil pots in case people try to defend." -_-

Yup, I'm very glad they are going away! Hopefully won't have to deal with this behavior anymore!

This stuff that Vjori is referring to here didn't happen months ago. It was going on in Haderus back in February and March. Frankly I would be happy if they just did away with the whole idea of emperor altogether but that would be a disservice to some very unselfish and deserving players that obtained the title within the spirit of the game (there are some out there).

Hopefully Zenimax gets rid of Emperor altogether soon. While the position of emperor creates a unique philosophical discussion on individual pride; it's just not worth ruining so many campaigns so one person can feel elite. I'd much rather the keeps be required for imperial city entry and upon losing them you would be teleported to the gate. Reduce the campaigns down to three on PC and we'd have so much PvP, we wouldn't know what to do!

Yeah, I really think at least one campaign has to go and I'm afraid the best candidate is our beloved Haderus. I just can't get excited about a campaign centered around owning resources. I've thought about this every since it came out. For the sake of transportation alone you're still going to have to take keeps so why not go to the appropriate campaign. But we certainly need to funnel people into fewer campaigns to get the multi-faceted PvP that most of us want.

Juraigr · June 2015

Someone tell me why farming emp is bad but.farming CP is good
I iz confuszed

xaraan · June 2015

I think the problem is that most players (by far, even considering some have left game) did not work hard to get it. The skill line being "former" turns the achievement into one more beneficial to trade for a little more min/maxed power. Chances are they've gotten plenty of feedback from several pvp guilds about it before making this decision. It will turn emperor into something to achieve and hold, not just achieve and pass.

Snit · June 2015

If you want to disagree with ZOS's decision in a meaningful way, a good start would be understanding why they made it. It's not to 'punish' people, and it's not because ZOS hates their players. Erock nailed it in post #3.

Saint_JiubB14_ESO · June 2015

Snit wrote: »

If you want to disagree with ZOS's decision in a meaningful way, a good start would be understanding why they made it. It's not to 'punish' people, and it's not because ZOS hates their players. Erock nailed it in post #3.

The 'punish' thing has really seemed strange to me. People do realize that punishing players would be resetting their status as having earned it (resetting the achievement, taking away the title, dye, and buffs), not modifying an aspect of the game mechanics? This is a normal part of any game design (not just mmos), it isn't punishment. Rally anybody who has actually been paying attention knows about emp farming/trading, so they should have at least, on some level, expected this change might happen.

Muizer · June 2015

I guess we'll have to see how it works out to be able to tell whether the sacrifice of the former emperors (who earned it fairly) was worth it.

That said. In RL, former emperors tend to be dead emperors

The whole concept is a bit dodgy. Still alternatives are conceivable. They could hand out bonuses that expire over time or when certain conditions are met. Like, when someone else from your faction is crowned emperor?