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Nightblade - Stamina vs Magicka

TheWhiskyWizard
TheWhiskyWizard
Soul Shriven
What is better for dps both PVE and PVP. Preferably looking for something with a bit survivability. What are some of the best abilities for either build at the moment? Not to concerned about gear yet, only lvl 22. Been running stamina with a 2H, mostly ignoring the siphoning tree. Seems effective at the moment, but God knows that could change any moment.

Thanks for any replies and input.
  • NpcOnStrike
    Stay Stamina .. I play Dual Wield + Bow and for pve its amazing
    This is what i came up with
    For me it was a lot of fun

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhXza8KXPzo

    I will make full build vid in couple of days
  • Skiserony
    Skiserony
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    I actually have a hybrid NB, dps in PvP and tank in PvE.

    Both magicka and stamina are pretty good now actually, though the stamina NB seems to be bit more popular with the DW for PvE.

    Pick whichever you think is the most fun. You can always change if you change your mind.
  • Brock_R18
    Brock_R18
    Soul Shriven
    So I too am having trouble deciding on a nightblade build. I've been trying so hard to choose stam or mag. It's so hard to choose :(. Currently I'm running a stam build with Killers blade(assassination), Ambush(assassination), Flurry(dual wield), surprise attack(shadow), the stealth cloak thing(shadow), and death stroke(assassination ultimate).
    Ive been using full medium armor.
    Is the stealth mechanic good in pve? I feel like I don't do as much damage as I would hope and I also don't seem to be able to solo at all because of no survivability. I keep putting points into stam so that I can actually use my abilities. Should I invest in siphoning for the life steal? I'm so lost with this class but it is the class I've had the most fun with. Kinda confusing... Can someone direct me into the right direction? I'd like to enjoy the game but I just can't when my build doesn't feel right. If I do more siphoning for survivability would I do a Magika NB? I don't think there are any stam morphs for siphoning. Id prefer a stam NB just because that's what I have been doing but also that video in the previous reply looks very fun too :). I'm so lost with how to build this. I'd really appreciate some guidance. PVE ONLY. whenever I google guides everyone always put pvp guides when I specifically ask for PVE only. I tend to pick up pvp as I play so I can do that later. But please someone help me :/
  • helediron
    helediron
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    I have two VR14 nightblades: a magicka DD and a tank. First thing: open up the whole class skill tree. All three lines are important for both magicka and stamina. Learn multiple weapons while leveling. Build really matter only in group dungeons and bosses and at late VR levels. Up to VR2..3 you should concentrate to opening new skills.

    Switching between magicka and stamina is easy. Try both. Look at tamrielfoundry.com, forums, nightblade. That site has good builds to look at. Currently stamina builds have higher DPS than magicka. But if you add inherent healing capability from magicka, they are roughly equal in usefulness.

    Common:
    All builds currently maximize magicka/stamina pool and damage and jewlry has reduce cost. Then comes health, crit% and pool regeneration. Look carefully class passives! Slotting of skills is very important.
    - Every nightblade build should always consider Siphoning Attacks. It gives effectively limitless resources while reducing damage somewhat. It is not always used because cost reduction/regen can replace it. But it is the one skill that is really unique compared to other classes.
    - Double take is always useful because of increased dodge chance and speed buff.
    - Cloak is controversial. It is actually only useful in farming and in PvP (has issues there). Nightblades are not really a "stealthy" class. Never ever fall into this trap of sneaking past mobs. Kill everything and twice if possible.
    - Mark Target, either morph is good. Mark a mob to get healing and mark a boss for debuff.
    - Fear (Mass Hysteria) is great. If mobs are winning: Fear, Double Take, make some distance, heal, dive back in.
    - Grom Focus is another controverial skill. Look at the passives and use it as a buff. You may even use it as damage skill, if you are willing to learn it's clunkety-clunk use.
    - Veil of Blades ultimate cuts 30% of enemy damage. This has saved my groups countless times.

    Stamina:
    Use any combination of 2h, DW, bow. 2h is hard to bypass because it has survivability. Rally is the only reliable healing source available for stamina NB and Brawler has damage shield. DW makes potentially highest damage. Try them with Ambush, Surprise Attack, Killer's Blade. Steel Tornado is very effective AoE burst. Bow is rather weak but offers great mobility.

    AoE: has many alternatives. Bow and Bombard gives easy mode for mob packs. They never reach you. If you can't keep the distance, use 2h and Brawler. If you are in group, use Steel Tornado.

    Single target: Ambush gets you close and stuns. Surprise Attack gives high damage and is spammable. Killer's Blade is used under 25% mob health. Some bosses are easy with bow and Magnum Shot because it knocks you back. But watch for ledges and walls... 2h is also viable.

    Magicka:
    Start with destro/resto staff combination. Advanced builds can use DW. There is also a Saptank variation. Builds use a lot from siphoning tree. Magicka NBs are also great healers and they heal the group even when they are not healers - just by doing damage.

    AoE: Sap Essence with Siphoning Attacks.

    Single target: The core is Cripple DoT and Funnel Health spam. Use Impale below 25% mob health.
    Edited by helediron on June 20, 2015 9:07AM
    On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone
  • Brock_R18
    Brock_R18
    Soul Shriven
    So correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that the nightblade shouldn't be built like a nuker unless doing pvp? Bosses can't be one shotted I imagine. Could you possibly give an example stamina build using DW? If you do, can you provide the original skill name along with the morph name. I'm not familiar with all the skills and am not quite capable of being able to recognize every skill off the top of my head yet. Just the ones I've used. But yea an example stamina build would be great.

    Great reply! So much useful information! I'll definitely look into siphoning more.
  • UTG_Zilla
    UTG_Zilla
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    I have a question about nb. I've come up with a quick kill build for pve but hardly ever use my backup bow (I'm level 30 in alik'r desert, dw at 38 or 39, bow at 22). Should I just stop using Bow altogether and use 2nd ability bar as buff/debuff bar? I know I'm gonna seem really ignorant but I don't really see the point in the 2h abilities, yea they're good but I don't think they're "fantastic" as everyone else views them to go out of my way to level that.

    On this toon at least I like being a classic assassin, like 98% of the time I'm using assassination and dual wield skills only, I have some skills in siphon/other one but only like 1 in each.
  • UTG_Zilla
    UTG_Zilla
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    Edit: I get that the 2h has a heal in it but on my nb toon I'm stamina build so I have killers blade and I forget the name but it's the debuff that reduces enemies armor/spell resistance for 17 seconds in assassination tree, anyways I have that one morphed into the one that heals me for 53% health if I kill debuffed enemy. So with those two I can get 73% health healed after killing an enemy. Right now it works great for pve because with sneak and that debuff I kill targets within a few hits, sometimes one hit them, so I'm mainly at full health as it is, right now anyways.

    P.s.s. Ugh sorry I f*cked that "edit" up...still getting use to this forum...
    Edited by UTG_Zilla on June 20, 2015 3:34PM
  • helediron
    helediron
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    Oh dear, so detailed questions from level 30. This might not be the answer you are looking for...

    Let's try one build. Look at skill names and morphs from e.g. http://esohead.com/skills . I have many vr toons and i still mix up the skill names! For stamina builds those that cost stamina on morph are top choices, that is Ambush, Surprise Attack and Killer's Blade - opener, spam and finisher. Use dw for highest damage. Add Steel Tornado from dw for AoE. We might run out of resources so if available, put Siphoning Attacks (SA) to last slot. If not, try dw Rapid Strikes and the other morph of Steel Tornado. You will run out of stamina anyway. Weave heavy attaks then.
    Other weapon could be bow or 2h
    bow: Venom Arrow, Magnum Shot, Bombard, Reaper's Mark, SA. Why? VA shuts casters, MS for boss fights, B for mob control, RA for heals, SA for resources.
    2h: Rally, Brawler, Wrecking Blow, Double Take, SA. R buff and heals, B for AoE fun, WB for giggles, DT survival, SA for resources.
    If you don't yet have these skill, well, learn all skills and put something you have meanwhile. If you find something wrong with these, good. We are at different levels, have different preferences and builds change on situation. The point is that everybody finds something wrong in other's builds, and build debates never end.

    This is the build i actually use during leveling alts:
    Stamina gear: 5 Hunding Rage 3 or 4 Ashen Grip, stamina glyphs. Chest heavy, belt light, others medium. Chest, belt, weapons training, hands divine, boots exploration, others infused. Stamina jewelry with cost reduction glyphs. All improved to blue with blue glyphs. Gear made to level 4, 16, 26, 36, vr1, 4, 7, 10. Use regen drinks and looted potions under vr and crafted potions above. Weapon learning order: bow, dw, 2h, s&b
    Magicka gear: 5 Seducer, 3 or 4 Torug, magicka glyphs. Chest heavy, head medium, others light. Magicka jewelry with cost reduction. otherwise like stamina. Weapon learning order: destro, resto, dw, s&b
    Weapon1: whatever leveling up
    Bar1: killing skill, wepon skill, class tree 1 skill, class tree 2 skill, class tree 3 skill, some ultimate
    Weapon2: whatever i will level up after weapon 1
    Bar2: wpn skill 1, wpn skill 2, guild or world skill, skill from tree lagging behind, skill i hate, another ultimate
    When returning quests i temporarily swap to bar 2.
    Killing skill is the one i use. It is probably Bombard, Steel Tornado, Sap Essence on magicka nb, Biting Jabs on Templar or Brawler - whatever kills mobs. Rest is purely for leveling the skills. I do use the skills currently on bar to get familiar with them. When they get morphable i replace them with next in tree. The build changes all the time. Somewhere after vr10 it all finish up and i start to think what to do with the toon and what build i could make.
    On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone
  • Jim_Berry
    Jim_Berry
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    I focus Stamina, as I'm very evasive. I only use Magicka for stun and cloak.
  • Brock_R18
    Brock_R18
    Soul Shriven
    @helediron thanks for that amazing answer! I love stamina builds so I will probably go with that. So I take it siphoning is useless to go into for a stamina build? Just because there are no stamina morphs. What would a Magika NB build look like? Like which skills? I imagine a lot of siphoning would be involved.
  • SOLDIER_1stClass
    SOLDIER_1stClass
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    Skiserony wrote: »
    I actually have a hybrid NB, dps in PvP and tank in PvE.

    Both magicka and stamina are pretty good now actually, though the stamina NB seems to be bit more popular with the DW for PvE.

    Pick whichever you think is the most fun. You can always change if you change your mind.

    This is what I am currently doing as well. I like the balance of the hybrid Nightblade with the versatility it gives me. Now I do not have the same potency of a focused build however, I feel like me versatility is well rounded and its fun to play as well.
  • Stannum
    Stannum
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    dps = stamina NB
    tanky survivability = magika NB
  • Gorilla
    Gorilla
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    Helediron.

    Thanks for sharing your knowledge. It helped me a lot on my leveling build, albeit early days. L20 magicka using and desto/DW -- loving it.

    - Dras
  • Reeko
    Reeko
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    I was a Stamblade leveling up for the first time (PS4) and just about a week ago i decided to respec and try Magblade. I loved it! I was a dest/resto Funnel spam build and i felt like i contributed more to groups then as a Stamina NB. I just recently went back to Stamina to take advantage of Werewof stam regen passive before it changes but i already miss being Magicka based. Cannot wait to go back, maybe try DW/Resto this time.

    Anyways throughout all of this i have done alot of research and found two guides that, with a little tweaking, i found to be a great source of information!

    Stamina: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/nb-dual-wieldbow-pve-dps-build-1-6-6/

    Magicka: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-pve-correct-magicka-nightblade-dps-amstelx/
  • Gorilla
    Gorilla
    ✭✭✭
    Hey Reeko,

    I'll be on a little over the weekend but see you IG next week on guild chat.

    I like Amstel's thoughtful write-ups.

    - Dras
  • chevalierknight
    chevalierknight
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    If you come across a stronger player then you more dps and can out heal your dps you're out off luck as a stamblade as you're about burst

    But with a magblade you have more ways to bring down the power of the enemy player or at the very least stay alive for back up
  • Bloodgharm
    Bloodgharm
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    Brock_R18 wrote: »
    @helediron thanks for that amazing answer! I love stamina builds so I will probably go with that. So I take it siphoning is useless to go into for a stamina build? Just because there are no stamina morphs. What would a Magika NB build look like? Like which skills? I imagine a lot of siphoning would be involved.

    When I started playing, I began with a stamina nb like you are doing. The gameplay was fun for awhile, but the survivability left something to be desired since I solo a lot. I wanted to be able to solo world bosses and public dungeons and dolmens so I respecced to magicka. I'm enjoying it much more now and I've hardly died since switching. Here's my build:

    1st bar: Destro staff; Single Target
    Inner Light (mage's guild skill line; morph of magelight)
    Structured Entropy (mage's guild; morph of entropy)
    Swallow Soul (siphoning; morph of Strife)
    Crippling Grasp (siphoning; morph of cripple)
    Impale (assassination; morph of assassin's blade)
    U: Soul Tether (siphoning; morph of soul shred)

    2nd bar: Resto staff; AOE
    Inner Light
    Sap Essence (siphoning; morph of drain power)
    Refreshing Path (shadow; morph of Path of Darkness)
    Healing Ward (resto skill; morph of steadfast ward)
    Flex (I either use siphoning attacks for longer fights or a healing spell)
    U: Veil of Blades (Shadow; morph of consuming darkness)

    With this build, I'm set up for bosses or groups of mobs. I've got great survivability, great mobility and I can switch out a couple morphs and heal for groups as well. It's fun just running circles around mobs while constantly dealing damage and healing at the same time. I hardly ever have to chug a health potion and I'm able to pull several groups of mobs at the same time and not have to worry. This build will make you feel like a god.
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    I have both magicka and stamina NB. While I consider the Stam a nuker who can deliver high dmg with 2 or 3 attacks, I have most of the fun with my stickman mag NB, since it is pretty challenging. He uses a lot light and heavy attacks to regain resources (blessed leeching strikes).

    Mark target(grim focus)/Leeching strikes/Lotus/Flame clench/Impale (concealed weapon) --> U Clouding swarm (I'm plannig to stop being a vamp)

    Mark the mob (or increase your attack) --> full heavy attack+lotus --> Clench --> Full heavy + impale or light attacks while walking towards enemy + CW (Assasin's will if you can)

    For second bar nothing is as fun as the first one. I've tried AoE, buff, healing bar etc, but always I end up using only the first bar.
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

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    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
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    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
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    Ive tried stamina NB but it bored me after a few hours of playing.

    With magicka you can cloak whenever you want, use shade which is a lot of fun and you have pretty easy sustain with harness magicka and healing ward. The burst damage is low in pvp until you unlock prox deto and use max spell damage build.
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  • WyldfireWyrm
    WyldfireWyrm
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    Ive tried stamina NB but it bored me after a few hours of playing.

    With magicka you can cloak whenever you want, use shade which is a lot of fun and you have pretty easy sustain with harness magicka and healing ward. The burst damage is low in pvp until you unlock prox deto and use max spell damage build.

    I've been looking forward to getting proximity detonation on my magicka NB. I saw some videos of someone using it and it looked like amazing amounts of fun!
  • GreenSoup2HoT
    GreenSoup2HoT
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    dps = stamina NB
    tanky survivability = magika NB

    I wouldn't say Magicka Nb is tanky. Just elusive with cloak spam. Unless your talking about a Sap Magicka NB tank.

    So many possibility's with either resource you can't just say Magicka nb is tanky. You can build for 100% glass cannon magicka det + cloak or a debuff magicka nb, etc.

    You could also build a stamina nb tank.
    Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on August 14, 2015 1:35AM
    PS4 NA DC
  • Stannum
    Stannum
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    dps = stamina NB
    tanky survivability = magika NB

    I wouldn't say Magicka Nb is tanky. Just elusive with cloak spam. Unless your talking about a Sap Magicka NB tank.

    So many possibility's with either resource you can't just say Magicka nb is tanky. You can build for 100% glass cannon magicka det + cloak or a debuff magicka nb, etc.

    You could also build a stamina nb tank.
    I wrote about the most effective variants. As stamina dps buld is stronger then magika DPS build for NB, so magika dps build is ineffective. You can do one, but it will not be as good as stamina build.
    But NB has pretty strong magika tanky build and it's more effective then stamina tanky build as it combines good DPS and heal. You can go stamina tank NB, but magika tank will be anyway better.
    Edited by Stannum on August 14, 2015 8:14AM
  • Sirbu3ll3r
    With the changes to the dodge roll do you think more people will be heading to magica builds more than stam builds?
  • WyldfireWyrm
    WyldfireWyrm
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    Wrong thread.
    Edited by WyldfireWyrm on August 16, 2015 2:26AM
  • Reeko
    Reeko
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    Having played both a stamina AND magicka NB i can confidently say that the only area stamina nb shines is in group dungeons/trials/etc. For solo play and PvP though, magicka wins hands down. More survivability, more flexibility, more speed, sheilds, heals, and while it may not do quite as much burst as stamina, it still puts out enough to kill people.
  • Dekkameron
    Dekkameron
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    Stay Stamina .. I play Dual Wield + Bow and for pve its amazing
    This is what i came up with
    For me it was a lot of fun

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhXza8KXPzo

    I will make full build vid in couple of days

    You're so making that more complicated for yourself. All you really having to do is just use bombard, the fear and weapon swap to use steel tornado are redundant imo. :)
    - Veteran Combat Librarian -
  • chevalierknight
    chevalierknight
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    dps = stamina NB
    tanky survivability = magika NB

    I wouldn't say Magicka Nb is tanky. Just elusive with cloak spam. Unless your talking about a Sap Magicka NB tank.

    So many possibility's with either resource you can't just say Magicka nb is tanky. You can build for 100% glass cannon magicka det + cloak or a debuff magicka nb, etc.

    You could also build a stamina nb tank.

    I use a debuff build very strong as i get stronger enemys get weaker
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